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Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:43 pm |
Bira wrote: |
SusieQ wrote: |
I'm sorry but all this facial movement, massaging, creams to bring your face up sounds ludicrous to me. Nothing short of a face lift will move things up. Thats just the way it is. |
I don't think it sounds ludicrous at all. I believe before going under the knife, I should try everything else. Did you even see Bethany's pictures in the Ageless thread? I think it's page 44. She is getting great results after a relatively short time of facial exercises. I believe in positive thinking and mind power, too. If you think you can do it, you then can do it. However if you don't believe in it, then you probably won't get any results, so for you, the only alternative is probably a face lift, which is cool. I have a friend who believes only in face lifts, too, and I don't try to change her mind on that. She's entitled to believe what she wants, and I'm happy for her and support whatever she wants to do. I'd support whatever you want to do, too, but being a downer on optimists is not really fun for me. |
Well Bira I believe in positive thinking too, but not in regards to this. There is no documented proof that it works. Here is a very good article on the subject itself. http://www.cosmeticscop.com/skin-care-facts-facial-exercises-myth-miracle.aspx |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:52 pm |
Paula does not site a single study to support otherwise... So, by your rationale, needing a study... you still don't have one. So, again... I know LOTS of people with success... In fact, it works so well (I'll speak for FlexEffect only) that we've had several clients turn around and start their own programs... a tweak here and there... I'm not familiar with the program you chose, but I would say that making exaggerated facial expressions is totally useless. That could not possible grow the muscle...which is necessary to lift the skin up... you need resistance to do that... as proven in any gym or sport. That would be like just moving your arm in a bicep curl fashion and hoping for some tone... not going to happen.
Given all that... Our economy needs a major boost... so I think anyone that wants to spend a lot of money absolutely should. I think people should pour as much as they can into our economy... Please choose a Dr. that buys American (assuming your American...) LOL! |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:57 pm |
Let's keep in mind who wrote that article...she is a bit biased since she sells a bunch of skin care stuff to help you get rid of wrinkles.
But my pics aren't enough documented proof?
What about all the pics on the FlexEffect board? And the other EDS members who have shared their own improvements like Toby, Manon20, Moonstone, etc?
Every day I am thankful to Toby and Mpstat for convincing me to give this a shot. And to LouLou (Ageless) and Deb/Claudia (FlexEffect)...together they collectively kept me from going under the knife last Christmas. I was going to have my upper and lower eyes done, and my PS had pointed out numerous reasons that I was a great candidate. Three short months later, every one of those eye complaints are GONE. So...$10 vs. $8,000 and recovery time. And $1,200 - $1,500 EVERY year for my marionette lines. That means I saved $11,600 over 3 years.
All I can say is THANK YOU, EDS for educating me as to what facial exercise REALLY is!
Editing to add: Claudia, I'm sorry I failed to contribute to economy more. Maybe I should take my mega savings and buy a nice piece of jewelry. Heck, I could pay the entire fee for my niece's pre-paid college tuition...though the state my not be solvent by the time she needs it, lol. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:30 pm |
Susie, I think you should definitely get a face lift should you think you need it. I think that will make you the most happy. I'll be rooting for your great results. Now if you did go that route and find that you like your doctor, please let me know who it is! My friend who does not believe in cream or facial exercise, and only wants to do a face lift, wants a recommendation of a good face lift doctor! Anyway go with your guts. |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:31 pm |
Wow, bethany, really wonderful results for you and in such a short time. I'm sure you can find a way to spend the saved money! You can even invest, and get wall street moving again. How many times a week are you doing ageless? |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:33 pm |
ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Paula does not site a single study to support otherwise... So, by your rationale, needing a study... you still don't have one. So, again... I know LOTS of people with success... In fact, it works so well (I'll speak for FlexEffect only) that we've had several clients turn around and start their own programs... a tweak here and there... I'm not familiar with the program you chose, but I would say that making exaggerated facial expressions is totally useless. That could not possible grow the muscle...which is necessary to lift the skin up... you need resistance to do that... as proven in any gym or sport. That would be like just moving your arm in a bicep curl fashion and hoping for some tone... not going to happen.
Given all that... Our economy needs a major boost... so I think anyone that wants to spend a lot of money absolutely should. I think people should pour as much as they can into our economy... Please choose a Dr. that buys American (assuming your American...) LOL! |
I think with everything else, there'll always be a non-believer. For non-believers, facial exercises won't be very effective since their hearts aren't in it, and they probably won't put in the time or effort in to it.
Good point about pouring money in to the economy. Too many people are trying to save for a rainy day these days. |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:34 pm |
Suzie Q if you are willing to go for the time, expense and the outcome of having surgery that's a good option for you.
The results of facial exercise are so gratifying and natural and inexpensive that we can't help but try to convince you of the positive outcome. I am amazed almost everyday by my non-surgical results. Regarding the article: Clearly this person does not actually DO exercises and obviously has not tried them or she would "jump the fence". Those of us who DO them Know the power of them. Of all the tips, tricks and direction I've had On EDS this is the one you can take to the bank (all the money you're not spending on other stuff!)... |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:47 pm |
Bira wrote: |
Wow, bethany, really wonderful results for you and in such a short time. I'm sure you can find a way to spend the saved money! You can even invest, and get wall street moving again. How many times a week are you doing ageless? |
I usually do them about 3x a week, but I slacked off the last 2-3 weeks (along with my diet too, sigh) due to work exhaustion.
But I just got my butt back in gear and I am shooting to completely eliminate the old ML's by June. I'm thinking of it like a qualifying event for the Facial Exercise Olympics. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:05 pm |
sister sweets wrote: |
Suzie Q if you are willing to go for the time, expense and the outcome of having surgery that's a good option for you.
The results of facial exercise are so gratifying and natural and inexpensive that we can't help but try to convince you of the positive outcome. ... |
SusieQ,
I have to agree with Sis...I am so gung ho about facial exercise for a couple of reasons:
- I had major surgery 18 months...a 4+ hour nose reconstruction due to a bad deviated septum correction. I now have ear cartilage sitting on the bridge of my nose because my nose was literally collapsing on my face.
- While I was pretty healthy going into the surgery (with an anticipated 1 week recovery), it KICKED MY BUTT....I was unable to work for an entire month, and I didn't feel good for the next 9 months. Just exhausted, and not able to do anything, period.
- I still believe in cosmetic surgery, but only after trying less invasive options whenever possible. Besides, even a face lift will look better newly stretched over toned facial muscles!
- I have seen first hand what facial exercise has done for me and some of my friends. Even my sister who flies from FL to NYC 3-4x a year to get her Botox, filler, teeth, boobs, etc. serviced by celebrity doctors, is now doing these exercises after seeing what they did for me.
All that said, each person has to do what is best for them. If you feel that surgery is the best route for you, then it is the right choice for YOU.
But to say "Nothing short of a face lift will move things up. Thats just the way it is." is potentially short-changing everyone else who could benefit from a less-invasive, far cheaper option. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:08 pm |
LOL... I think we're all contributing to the economy... good Lord.. the $$ I've spent on my fave products...
Actually, I don't have a problem if a person goes under the knife... I can see doing it for several reasons... Heck, myself, a mother of twins, I see the knife approaching my stomach someday in the future... But you can bet your bottom that I'll be doing everything I can FIRST for avoidance... if nothing more than to get my body in the best shape possible... and hopefully with any luck my stomach will look acceptable... if not... the surg. shouldn't be super invasive... However, I'm happy to offer something that can prevent surg. for many
Bethany... I just think it's pretty cool you are approaching the face you desired... and STILL have 8k to spend... 2 birds!!!
With regards to "if you don't believe, it won't work..." Well... sort of... I think if you have a negative attitude about anything, it shows... and a face that portrays negativity, is not generally the most flattering of postures to maintain... So, yeah, it won't matter how much muscle you build to lift... a sour face is just plain sour, or depressed or whatever... You're muscles, however, don't know if you don't believe... they'll build... and if you smile... well... that always looks best... regardless the number of wrinkles... wasn't Mother Theresa the sweetest, happiest, kindest person you've ever seen? Flawless... wrinkled to the max... but utterly radiant! |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:28 am |
Suzie, I don't know personally about Oxycise, but there are so many programs out there nowadays and people are benefiting from doing them - even if its only at a psychological level, I think its still a much healthier option than getting a surgeon to cut completely healthy tissue.
There have been some studies done showing the benefits of facial exercise, for example Eureka Physical Therapy, California
and Deborah Crowley founder of FlexEffect
conduct an independent study on the effects
of FlexEffect Facial Resistance Training.
Under the direction of Deborah Crowley,a panel of healthy females (average age 45) trained daily for a period of two weeks in Facial Resistance Training (FlexEffect). The results showed an average 35% increase in facial muscle strength. 100% of the panelists reported an increase in facial firmness.
Also, Dr Mark Berman, Former President of the California Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons says:
"When you exercise, you tone and tighten the muscles in your body, so why not apply the same principles to your face? I've seen the results, and it works.
I think more studies need to be done but have no doubts even when more studies are done, there will still be disbelievers.
It might just be that the system you tried (which I seem to recall being mentioned elsewhere is a whole body workout (in that you work the body out as well as the face) is a little different than many of the facial workouts that are being discussed here also.
SusieQ wrote: |
ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Susie... is this your experience? I've seen plenty of people fix their down turned mouths... How many people do you know that have done facial exercises to no avail? |
Myself Claudia, myself! I did an oxycise routine for the face for several months and I think all the exaggerated facial expressions only loosened things up around my mouth area. There is nothing I've even read that facial exercises help tone the face. |
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_________________ FlexEffect Trainer |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:55 pm |
To everyone who posted to me regarding facial exercises. I am skeptical when it comes to things such as facial exercises. I have a problem with the B&As. None of the B&As lighting is the same, the befores are too far away compared to the after pix, angle of the shots etc. The fold in the corner of Bethany's mouth in the after pix has diminished considerably but the drooping is still there and the lighting in all 3 pictures are different. As for PaulaB's article, she did her research and wrote the facts on it.
As for plastic surgery, I just won't even go there. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:02 pm |
SeanySeanUK wrote: |
It might just be that the system you tried (which I seem to recall being mentioned elsewhere is a whole body workout (in that you work the body out as well as the face) is a little different than many of the facial workouts that are being discussed here also.
SusieQ wrote: |
ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Susie... is this your experience? I've seen plenty of people fix their down turned mouths... How many people do you know that have done facial exercises to no avail? |
Myself Claudia, myself! I did an oxycise routine for the face for several months and I think all the exaggerated facial expressions only loosened things up around my mouth area. There is nothing I've even read that facial exercises help tone the face. |
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Sean, you are correct...Oxycise is a full body program designed to help people lose weight and tone up. (I own that too!) There are some exaggerated facial expressions and movements to eliminate a double chin, etc.. However, there is NO real facial resistance component, thus no real facial muscle building.
So if you were to lose weight with Oxycise, and NOT build enough muscle to pick up the slack, you could feasibly develop some addtional sag or looseness around your face. That's exactly what happened when I lost 16 lbs...I had MORE facial sag until I used resistance facial exercise to help make it disappear. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:26 pm |
Yeah... the lighting in many of the pictures are different... that's what happens without professional photography... or photoshop...
Well... you don't have any interest in learning otherwise... not from the personal experiences of those here... so there is nothing left to say...
I know what I see... I hear what I hear from 1000's of satisfied customers... I'm happy to help those interested... and content to leave those behind that aren't... |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:27 pm |
Same for me as with Bethany, lost 50 lbs and now I have facial sagging. I've been doing Ageless (Thanks Bethany!) combined with AALS and hoping for the best. My skin is thickening and I can finally feel the muscles I should be working. It is scary at first to pull and tug but scarier to go under the knife. For me surgery would be a last, but not out of the question, resort. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:40 pm |
I'm curious if anyone has watched a plastic surgury on the face?
I seems to me...that I've seen several of these shows, and the DR. PEELS the skin back in order to do anything he/she is going to do.
Then they lay the skin back down, sew up the seams, and tell you it's perfectly normal to swell, turn black and blue etc. Somehow, looking, and feeling like a truck ran over you gives more comfort than not? But we know, short of medical problems it's going to heal right??? (it may or may not look good. You may or may not regret such extreme measures) But, why would "pulling and tugging" your face, with your hands, especially if you do it in a fashion not to bruise yourself or cause pain (discomfort perhaps... ) cause worse damage than peeling it off all the structures below in order to move it? |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:33 pm |
I've been doing facial exercises now for about two months, and I've been fairly (though not completely!) consistent. I've already noticed some firming and lifting, especially in the eye area. (So has my partner...
I think my results, while not dramatic, are *for me* proof that facial exercise can be effective in helping to reshape the face. I plan to continue them, since they are non-invasive, involve no bruising or pain, and don't risk infection, anesthesia complications, or other side effects. Anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but the article cited arguing against had no evidence at all in support of its position. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:45 pm |
SusieQ wrote: |
The fold in the corner of Bethany's mouth in the after pix has diminished considerably but the drooping is still there and the lighting in all 3 pictures are different. As for PaulaB's article, she did her research and wrote the facts on it.
As for plastic surgery, I just won't even go there. |
Sorry my pics didn't meet your expectations, lol.
And I really didn't see any FACTS quoted in Paula's article...just her personal opinions.
But the beauty of all of this discourse is that those of us with open minds have far more options than those who do not. Those who are open to trying new things can...without seeking Paula's permission, lol. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:20 pm |
Wait... Bethany... I just realized that I predicted a few weeks ago that your pics would be said to not be good enough (that is, not convincing enough!!! and probably not real) Wow.. I didn't think it would happen this fast... It's like I'm psychic!!! LOL! |
_________________ Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:19 pm |
[quote="bethany
And I really didn't see any FACTS quoted in Paula's article...just her personal opinions.
But the beauty of all of this discourse is that those of us with open minds have far more options than those who do not. Those who are open to trying new things can...without seeking Paula's permission, lol.[/quote]
Viva the open mind!
I don't really get the Paula thing. What makes her the expert? I guess I need to research her resume. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:22 pm |
ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Wait... Bethany... I just realized that I predicted a few weeks ago that your pics would be said to not be good enough (that is, not convincing enough!!! and probably not real) Wow.. I didn't think it would happen this fast... It's like I'm psychic!!! LOL! |
LOL...you are exactly right!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:23 pm |
sister sweets wrote: |
You can bring a horse to water.. |
This is very true.
But at a minimum, I hope the rest of the herd is at least considering drinking. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:50 pm |
Oh man, reading all the posts gave me a headache. LOL SusieQ, you completely confused me now. You claimed not to believe in facial exercises, and that only a facelift would do the trick. Yet now you're saying you'd never go for a plastic surgery. I'm not sure how you plan to lift anything up. No exercise, no surgery, no lifting! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:52 pm |
Bethany, your pics are good enough for me. I have taken pics of myself and know how lighting and camera angles can never be exactly the same. I'm not professional and so aren't you. That makes your pics more believable. Besides, you only took pics to show yourself the results and were only then kind enough to share the pics with the rest of us. SusieQ's argument was weak at best. |
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:06 pm |
I went to the plastic surgeon today (fantastic injector). He injected the lower corners of my mouth with numbing....saying that is the look that the botox will give me and explained how botox eventually turns off the nerve firings when the muscle doesn't respond...
From that I understand that after time the muscle doesn't respond at all and you can just put in a little filler and you won't even need botox again.
Is that what you guys think happens?
Gotta say my corners perked right up with the numbing (or local antestesia, just not sure, something to relax the muscle) and I looked TONS better...not sad or mean...
I go back in a week for something, either botox or filler. |
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