PLEASE help - where do I begin?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:05 am

OK, this is very embarrassing, but I need to start somewhere. I've been lurking for a week, and you all do seem such a friendly and helpful lot. So I'm giving this a shot. Please be forewarned that this will be a long post. I've noticed that when people ask advice and don't provide details, there are inevitably requests for said details to help you guys give answers. I'd like to give you what you need to help me in this first post...so since I will surely go on too long or give too much info, I apologize in advance for my inability to edit myself!

For various reasons, including not having particularly good female role models, and not having been well socialized with other girls in my early youth, I never developed an interest in skin care like most girls do. Though I suffered from terrible breakouts during high school, we were rather poor and asking my parents to go to the dermatologist was out of the question. By the time I got to be in my 20's my skin wasn't quite so bad (birth control helped reduce the # and severity of breakouts), I was used to the issues that I did still have, I was awfully busy trying to make a living and didn't pay to much attention to my face (since it wasn't too bad) and finances stunk...all leading me to continue ignoring my skincare issues.

Thus leading to my dilemma: I am now 34, and am really clueless as to what skin type I am, and where to begin as to learning the basics.

Over the last couple of years I've dabbled in trying to improve my skin, mostly by buying samples of stuff on ebay. But I never was consistent or diligent about it. I am ready now to try a comprehensive program to improve my skin, but I don't know where to begin.

From what I've been able to glean, it seems most of my breakouts during my teens were due to treating the skin surface. You know, I'd get pimples, and use drugstore acne treatments, and the breakouts would just get worse - I assume because I was drying the surface only, not getting to the problem under the skin, and the excessive drying caused my skin to produce more oil, completing a vicious cycle.

So for years I thought I just had oily skin, when it was probably just combination. Now that I am aging I find I am having issues of dryness, as well as more than occasional breakouts now that I've been off birth control for the last 1 1/2 years.

I have always suspected that I also have sensitive skin. Certainly I am extremely fair, never tan, always burn, and thus have not spent hardly any time in the sun since I was about 14. In the summer, even if I just drive to the post office, my skin will heat and redden. I flush easily from embarrassment. Also, strangely, at times when I am not hot or embarrassed in the least, I will get oddly shaped patches of flush on my face and neck, and very occasionally even extending to my upper chest. This does not happen as much as it used to, but still does once in awhile.

Also my face and neck - even when my skin used to be oilier - is quite red when I get out of the shower, and it stays that way for some time. I am aware that moist heat strips skin of its moisture, but I'm not sure what to do about this aspect. My hair is very long and very fine; due to oiliness it must be washed every day, and due to the fineness it breaks and tangles easily, so must also be conditioned every day. Due to the length and the time it takes to shampoo and condition, and what with shaving and so on, my minimum shower is 15 minutes. It usually goes closer to 25, as I have a tendency to spend the first several minutes "waking up" in the shower and the last several procrastinating, not wanting to leave the soothing shower. I try to keep the temperature as cool as possible, but for my comfort zone that is still above tepid. So I know the showers are drying my skin and exacerbating my issues.

As I mentioned, now that I am aging, I find that the overall oiliness has dissipated, but I still have breakouts, and now I have dryness to the point of some serious flaking (forehead, nose, cheeks, upper lip) as well. I have never really been clear on what skin pores look like (did I mention I'm aware of how pathetically ignorant I am and how I don't deserve to be among such knowledgeable and sophisticated company? Rolling Eyes

) but if they are what I think they are, mine are rather enlarged, especially on either side of my nose.

At this point I don't know if I have sensitive skin, combination skin, or both. While I am minimally aware of skincare regimens, I have a lot to learn, especially in regards to exfoliation (which, while I've known in the back of my mind is important, I've rarely done - bad, I know!!!) I don't know if I should just go to a dermatologist - I took a stab at that in my mid-20's but wasn't impressed with the doctor. He seemed rather indifferent to me, just listened to my complaint about breakouts and told me to use Cetaphil and prescribed something - I don't remember what, a capsule to take once or twice a day, probably some variation of antibiotic. I tried to ask some questions about my skin in general but he seemed to be in a hurry and somewhat brushed me off.

First - given all the above info (sorry it came out so haphazardly)...can any of you help me figure out what kind of skin I have? Or should I try a different dermatologist and let him/her tell me what it is?

Second - how can I get up to speed on what I should know about skin composition, its various potential afflictions and what causes them, skincare ingredients (the good and bad) and what effect those ingredients have? I am not unintelligent, in fact I am actually quite bright ...merely uneducated in this particular field. (please forgive what appears to be bragging, it really is not meant to be) I learn quickly, and suffer a bit from OCD - I prefer to learn as comprehensively as possible, trying to soak up every detail like a sponge. So any recommendations as to books and/or websites that start at the beginning with the very basics, and build from there while covering its subject in great detail (with the language somewhat adapted for the lay person) would be fantastic.

Currently I am using:

cleanser - Estee Lauder Splash Away
toner - Neutrogena Alcohol Free Toner
moisturizer - Neutrogena Oil-Free Moisture for combination skin

The EL I've used for several years and loved, though I may now have too much dryness and might need to switch. The toner and moisturizer are recent additions...purchased when I realized I'd spent so little time or effort on my skin, that I'd had the same bottle of moisturizer for several years! So I went out and bought new stuff that I hoped was relatively appropriate and would at least not harm my face until I had the time and the financial resources to really tackle my skin.

So now I'm ready to tackle and throw my brain and wallet at this, though I'm not going to buy any fancy schmancy expensive special treatment stuff until I get to know my skin - and ingredients and their uses - better.

If you have made it through this darned full -length novel of a post, my humble and grateful thanks! Any efforts at a helpful response would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,
M

PS I never get blackheads - just large blemishes and pus filled bumps with the occasional whiteheads. Worse, I am a "picker" despite knowing it causes scarring. I tend to do it unconsciously while watching tv...so now I have recent and old scars as well. Lots of red spots as I'm in the middle of a breakout right now!

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:19 am

Welcome to the forum, spygrrl!

I can't offer you any advice but there is a website that has some skincare tips atwww.cosmeticscop.com. Be warned though, the cosmetics cop in question has her own line of products to sell so you may find that she plugs them a lot. Under the 'Learn' section there are lots of articles about skincare. If you look under the 'Basics & Beyond' section you will find an article called 'Understanding Skin Type'. The 'Learn' section is quite extensive so hopefully there will be some information in there somewhere that will help you.

Hang around this forum and you'll get loads of advice on what products to use etc. Smile

Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:25 am

Toe -

Funny you mention Paula! Actually I just spent the last hour there before I posted here. I had heard good things about her, but after reading many reviews, I'm not taking her word *alone* on any product. I respect that she knows her ingredients, but judging a product based on an ingredient list alone is not a thorough enough evaluation for my taste.

I will not knock her for having her own line of products, though, as my understanding is that she developed them after several years of doing product reviews. Obviously she felt she could provide something she thought the market was lacking. I don't begrudge her using her knowledge to make money, but it will increase my tending to a "grain of salt" attitude towards her reviews.

Part of why I was there so long - I could not get any of the links on the "learn" page to load! Every other page loads just fine for me - but everything on the "skin care facts" page - battle plans, basics, ingredients, etc. - not a single one of those links will load an article for me. I only get "The page cannot be displayed." Bummer!

Thanks for the response, have a great day!

M

Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:37 am

Hi Spygrrl,

I think the best thing for you to do would actually be to go and have a facial done. That way the beautician will be able to tell you what type of skin you have and suggest the right products to try. I would suggest that you go to a salon that has a few different brands (if you were in Vancouver you could go to EDS Laughing

) so you have some choice.

In terms of catching up on ingredients etc, the ingredient dictionary on Paula's site is pretty good. Also, many of those ingredients would have come up on this forum so if you see a particular ingredient that you want to know more about then just use the search and see what it comes up with. I also tend to read a lot of magazines (mainstream ones but also a trade one, SPC, if I can get my hands on it).

I know you're looking to just get to know your skin at the moment but I'm just dying to throw in my two cents (sorry!). I think, whatever your skin type, you would benefit from using a gentle exfoliant to get rid of the flaky skin. You mention that you have occasional breakouts and that could possibly be because you are not exfoliating (as far as you have said) and thus dead skin is blocking pores and it goes down hill from there. Just a thought. Also, as you mentioned that you're in your early 30s, I would also suggest you look up vitamin C serums and their benefits (plenty of posts on this forum and also on the net and in mags). Argireline (aka botox alternative) is another ingredient that is worth reading up about.

HTH

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:05 am

Hi Spygirl

I'd like to throw in my two cents worth too, if you don't mind Wink

.

I just wondered from the sound of the red patches and the flushing and the spots (and your self-confessed ignorance about skin) whether it might be perhaps be Rosaceawww.rosacea.org or even eczma actually - I knew someone who got red patches all round their kneck and chest with that too and with the peeling and everything.

I wouldn't worry about not caring for your skin - if you've kept out of the sun it shouldn't be a problem. I didn't even use moisturiser until I was about your age and in all honesty I don't think it had any effect - most of them are purely cosmetic anyway. Doesn't sound like a lack of care to me more like a condition.

Your skin does seem exceptionally sensitive whatever it is. Sounds like you could definitely use something anti-inflammatory. Emu oil's good for that. I get mine fromwww.skinbio.com but there are many others around.

Otherwise, yes - it's hard to know where to start and where to finish.

Good luck
Molly

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:31 am

Hi Spygirl and welcome,
Wow, I wish I had the ability you do to explain everything so clearly. I do not know what to suggest in the way of products but I can recommend a very good book. It is very comphrehensive and I have found it very informative. It is called 'You don't need plastic surgery' by Everett M. Lautin MD, Suzanne M Levine & Kathryn Lance. The ISBN number is 1-59077-00-5. It tells you all about what works and how it works etc.
The only thing it does not mention is argireline which was a bit disappointing, but apart from that it is a great book.
If you buy it and dont like it, please dont be cross with me.
Lori

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:58 am

Hi Spygrrl, welcome to the EDS forums!

I would suggest you send a mail to the EDS ladies (the email addy is on the shop site). They were great to help me when I first turned up.

They will make some product recommendations based on your skin type, and (if my memory is correct) will send you samples before you buy if you just pay for the shipping fee.

Your skin sounds a bit like mine (I am also very fair, burn within a few minutes in the sun and go bright red whenever I heat up. YUK) There were a few products they recommended that were WONDERFUL for this.

1. Sothy's Clearness Serum (I think it was about CA$50, but will last AGES. you use it morning and night for 1-2 months and then just once a week each month to "top up") My flushing improved greatly by the end of the 2 months

2. Decleor Essential Harmonie and the Rose D'Orient balm.

Like I said, drop the girls a line and get some recommendations and then get some samples to test a few things out and see how you go.

Cheers!

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:52 pm

Hello,
It's difficult to say specifically what type of skin you have based on a written description, but to me it sounds like you need to exfoliate. The flakey skin is probably clogging your pores and causing the breakouts.

Also since you are new to skincare, I would recommend going with a well known line that usually gets good reviews so that you could learn what works on your skin. Use the whole line, cleanser, toner, treatment, moisturizer, sunblock to see what you like/don't like.

I would stay away from the super pricey ones because they'll see you as a target and sell you a lot of things you don't need. For exfoliation, I've used the murad line and was pleased with it. Skinceuticals is good and dermologica is one used at spas a lot. If you can also find a good facialist/aesthetician in your area, he/she can help you with products as well. Once again, be careful and make sure you just buy the basics.

Hope this helps.

Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:05 am

Hello again all. I've been lurking some more recently and would like to pick your brains once again. I figured I'd tag this to my original post since I'm still having the same issues.

I am the original poster. Shortly after my plea for help, the proverbial you-know-what hit the fan with our struggling business. Since that post (Nov 2004) I've just been using drugstore stuff because money's been very tight. Well, except for the time I won a set of Decleor for sensitive skin on eBay...the aromessence, night balm and day moisturizer...I paid promptly, was so excited...and it never showed up.

Money well spent! *snort*

I have saved up a little money and now can afford to go see an esthetician - that *is* what they're calling themselves these days, right? If not please tell me what is the correct term!

Can anyone recommend a good one in Chicago, Illinois or the outlying suburbs (I'm very willing to drive) that has a wide selection of product lines? Look, guys, I know this sounds terribly pathetic, really I do. I don't want you guys reading this to be thinking how *annoying* (and tacky) talking about money is.

But financially I've got one shot at a facial and a couple of good line products (my absolute max is $ 150 - possibly 200 for facial, tip and products, which I probably will buy here from EDS), and I want to do whatever I can to improve my odds of finding something that works for me on the first try. For me that means a salon with a good choice of skincare lines and really knowledgeable staff. Don't misunderstand me - I know skin care is all about experimenting and finding what's right, and I'd like to do right by my skin. I just can't afford to explore too many different products right now. (You know, some guys go to car shows to drool over the things they can't afford. I lurk in forums and read what everyone bought on their recent shopping excursions LOL)

Oh, I did order some free samples from Mario Badescu, and they were very generous with them. But the only one that was a hands down winner was the Seaweed Cleansing Soap. Too bad cleanser is the one item in skincare that isn't difficult to find for my PITA skin. It's the toners, treatments and moisturizers where things get tricky for me (like everyone else, I imagine). Sadly, the Healing Cream did not approve the appearance of my red scars, despite my diligent application. Crying or Very sad

Also - I do not have rosacea. I did do a lot of research both before and after my original post, and as best as I can tell, I simply have very fair, sensitive skin that reacts strongly to sun and adrenalin. Like I said before, just driving in the sun I can get red in the face. When I'm embarrassed I flush red down to my chest! But in all cases it's always temporary, and fades quickly when I get out of the sun or calm down LOL. I do not have the other symptoms associated with rosacea either.

I have been much better about exfoliating, but sadly still suffer from breakouts at the ripe old age of 36. So I'm still with my original assessment of skin that is both sensitive and both dry and acne prone.

Thanks once again for all your help!

Sincerely,
M

PS - What is the proper tip these days at a salon? Is 15% still acceptable? I've never had a facial before, and heck, haven't been in a salon (with the exception of the very occasional manicure) in 3 years. (ACK!)

free skin care · Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:55 am

Good morning M~
I read product ingredient lists w/ vastly improved knowledge since my short time here; this is greatly helping me make choices specific to my needs. And I already thought I was pretty savvy. WRONG. Hope you will become empowered too....skincare can be a sweet smelling, fear inducing, vanity preying racket. There are wonderful expensive products and just as wonderful inexpensive products. My tip would be before buying a large amount of products (even by advise from a spa or Dermatologist) to go home and research it here, Paula’s Choice, Makeup Ally and google. Research the active ingredients of products suggested, compare prices, read reviews and get samples whenever possible....it’s so worth the time. I think this is especially important when getting to know your skin...it will tell you what works, what it likes...and eventually, specifically what it needs that month, week, or hour.

Gently exfoliation (no scrubs) makes a huge difference in my breakouts w/ my dry somewhat sensitive skin. The moderately priced Zia brand, found in health food stores / Whole Food’s type places, has gentle effective exfoliation products – namely Fresh Papaya Enzyme Peel, Pumpkin Mask and Ultimate Exfoliant. The aisles of above-mentioned type stores are great places to sniff, test and read about products especially when you’ve done your research here. I’ve benefited from the EDS DIY section...and have had to tweak every recipe to fit my needs...a great way to get to know your skin, is fun and pretty inexpensive. OCM combined w/ enzyme exfoliation is worth a try for anyone w/ dry sensitive skin imoho. A Retin-A Micro prescription from your doctor or an ever so easy online prescription service could be the missing link...is for me. These things keep my dry/acne-prone skin currently most happy and clear; wish the same for you very soon. Good luck!

Sign me~ Sensitive to Marketing Strategies and Hype

free skin care · Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:01 pm

Welcome back!

Your history is much like mine, but I'm much older. Your hair and skin sound like mine, but I'm very oily.

This goes against advice you've received, but I would not spend my time/money on a facial. Most of the people who give them only know what the owner of the salon tells them and they push their most expensive product line. They can also scar you.

You already have the best beauty tool...the internet! I would go to the top of this forum to the DIY (do it yourself) postings and make some of the products that sound right for you especially since you now know much more about your skin. Sounds like you may need to exfoliate.

You mention you stay out of the sun but don't mention s/s. Sun damage is cumelitave (sp). Every time you go into the sun (this means from house to car) you get damage...it stays in your skin and adds up. (Wish they had good s/s when I was your age)

Please don't go out and buy products you don't need or can actually damage your skin. Go slowly.

http://makeupalley.com

http://spectacularskincare.com

free skin care · Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:21 pm

CyndiK,
your skin sounds very much like mine. I tend to break out quite a bit, and is rather sensitive with dry patches.
Could you tell me what enzyme exfoliation is, I've never heard of it?!

Thanks

free skin care · Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:08 am

Hey Kimmy~ The two types of exfoliants I use are acids and enzymes (both naturally occurring); they cause chemical reactions, and in this case the shedding on dead skin cells on one’s skin, exfoliation. I started paying attention to enzymes as exfoliants when a Derm. Dr. on Oprah touted them ~ she was pretty emphatic actually~ she especially liked papaya enzyme.

My earlier post pretty much lists the key products to my currently clear and happy skin sans eye cream, day serum and benzoyl peroxide (Clearasil) dotted on blemishes...none lately. Cleansing with oil (day 16) was my missing link and the DIY DHCC every other day...I’m tickled and amazed at how effectively oils have cleared my pores; better than other, harsher means such as pore strips, steaming and manual extractions. I will happily give you more details about which oils I cleanse and moisturize with if you’d like, just pm me.

And I’m not imagining it...my Derm. Dr. complimented my skin yesterday (twice)...that’s never happened. Dancing

free skin care · Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:08 am

Well, your skin sounds like mine and the story of breakouts in your early teens. Heres my 2 cents: First, I DO have rosacea and you really do sound like you have at least some of the symptoms and early stages of it, although you may be not in full bloom yet. I've had mine diagnosed by several different derms, so I am a confrimed case of it. Second of all, I've had many facials in different spas, broken out every single time and they all recommend differnt types of products according to what lines they carry, and usually expensive ones. You should save your money on that part only if it is your whole budget for the products too. If not, it could not hurt, but be prepared your skin could look worse in the interim because it brings impurities up to surface that have been lurking around waiting to pop up. If you truly think you DON'T have rosacea, a mild microdermabrasion, professionally done, could help jumpstart your skin with exfoliation and skin turnover. You would be a great candidate for IS Clinical's Proheal Serum, especially if you are in the early rosacea stages, so that would be a great place to start with your money. You could use that with your Cetaphil on a budget and work your way up the cleanser ladder later.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:06 am

First, my thanks to everyone who has responded, including those who responded back in '04. I'm sorry to say that despite your best efforts, I'm really conflicted about how to move forward.

1. I wanted to learn more about ingredients and their effects on various skintypes before investing in a skincare regimen, but it's become horrendously clear that I have a LOT of reading to do. Though I knew it would always be an ongoing process, I had hoped to learn enough in order to choose something for right now, until I could learn more. I thought I knew enough that Decleor might be a good first choice until I could learn more. However, despite this inclination of mine, many of you are recommending that I take it slower.

2. I'd like to take it slow, and would really like to try some of the DIY stuff, but that requires me to gain far more knowledge than I have right now, which means reading, which means time. Which is not a problem, except for the fact that...

3. I'm on my last few drops of toner and moisturizer. I need to replace these within the week. Actually a few days. That's a big reason why I was going to get a facial first...to see what they would recommend. In all honesty, though, the biggest reason I thought I should get a facial is 'cause Mabsy recommended it! And I trust her like nobody's business.

So basically, I need a toner and moisturizer almost immediately. I need time to find and digest all the info on ingredients and skintypes, and I don't have time to learn enough to do the DIY stuff before my current product runs out. (I thought I'd have more time this week to read up, but it didn't happen)

So...should I spring for the facial and see what they recommend? Order the Decleor and hope for the best? Get the Decleor and spring for the facial anyway? Ask the EDS staff and go by what they say? Or just get by on more drugstore stuff until I learn enough to know what to order or make myself? I don't mind doing this, only I've decided that the toner I've been using is rather useless. So you see I *still* need to find something new, whether it's expensive, cheap or in between.

Seriously, I need to get something within the next few days as I'll be out of product. Please help!

free skin care · Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:50 am

Part of your facial could include a mini-microdermabrasion or some type of exfoliant to get rid of your flakies. The reason that you get mixed advice on the facials is cost (when you are already looking at products) and that facials make many people break out just bringing up the impurities so it's not always easy to tell if you are sensitive to a product that you might buy right then. It sounds like you DO have really sensitive skin, even though you don't think it's rosacea, so you just have to be careful. People with sensitive skin are sometimes refered to the same products as those with rosacea. It can react by flakiness, breakouts and over oily skin to counteract. I can't use decleor (and i would love to), but dermalogica daily microfoliant with a gentle cleanser helps skin turnover. I would look into the IS Clinical Proheal, even if I ordered nothing else. It has your antioxidants, vit. c, and is great for sensitive skin. I swear it changed my skin more than anything I have EVER used and I have gone thru some expensive lines. You can also call and get samples to try before you buy to make sure you like it. Work your way up after the basics.

free skin care · Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:37 am

Hey spygirl Smile

I definately agree with Mabsy that the best advice you can get is to see a esthician who works in a salon and knows about facials. Some dermtologists seem to always be in a hurry and dont spend too much time on you. An esthician will help tell you what skin type you have and show you some products that would be good for your case.

It sounds like to me that you have sensitive-dry skin. You can also get breakouts from having dry skin since dry flakes may clog the pores causing a pimple. For your redness, i suffer from this too. I use Dermalogica gentle soothing booster.. and it is meant to take away the redness caused by sensitive skin, also it moisturizes skin without causing breakouts. Remember it is very important to exfoiliate so you can get that dead layer of skin away.

These products are very important:
1) cleanser (if you dont want to spend too much money, spectro gel is a god cleanser for sensitive skin as well as mild breakouts that you can buy in any drug store)

2) exfoilator (you dont need to exfoilate every day but its good to do it 2-3 times a week)

3) toner (alchohol free toner is a must, if it contains alchohol it will dry up the skin)

4) moisturizer

free skin care · Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:31 am

I second Mabsy and BCGirl, "Go see an esthician!!" Find out what's your skin type and problems. I always thought I have dry and clear skin but after I did my facial 2 months ago (I had not done any for about 10 years.) I was told I have normal skin with oily and dry parts but not too oily or too dry. And my skin is congested. Since then, I can clearly tell people what's my skin type and problems and I got more accurate suggestions!!

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