SUNSCREEN RANT: WHY IS MY FACE TAN?
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free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 3:46 pm

Sooooo,
I own, and use (and reapply), the following expensive sunscreens, daily. One or more of them is NOT protecting my skin, and I use retin-a, so I'm not happy about the slightly rosy cast on my nose and my new "tan" on my face (FYI I tan VERY easily and have never burned, but STILL--If I am tanning, most of you would have burns).
--ZO sunscreen
--Keys Solar Cream
--NIA24 sunscreen

All are advertised as 30+ SPF, broad spectrum SS. I'm pretty sure it is NOT the NIA24 product, since I wore that on the beach last summer and my face never tanned.

And to quiet any other concerns:
I apply liberally, and if I am staying out of doors, will bring the SS with me and reapply within 2 hours. The only time I ever get more than 30 mins exposure at a time is when I run in the morning, at 8am in Chicago (not lots of sun then, but still I apply before going out).

These are supposed to be physical sunscreens. I feel like maybe it is the ZO sunscreen, which feels like I am moving a bunch of silicones all over my face when I apply it.
I dunno, I can't figure it out! For the price of that SS it should make my skin look gorgeous AND protect it from sun damage.

Anyone else have similar gripes/experiences?

Thanks!

--avalange

free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 6:12 pm

avalange.... I've been using NIA24 for nearly a year now.... no residual sun exposure on face and neck. I haven't tried the other 2 you mentioned, so can't say.

OTOH, I do use Blue Lizard sunscreen on hands and forearms that get a lot more incidental exposure to the sun... and they still manage to tan no matter how frequently I reapply it.

free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 8:19 pm

I am a little confused, Avalange. Why do you have to apply so many different sunscreens everyday? Why don't you just use one sunscreen and determine which one is not protecting your face? I think if you mix them up, maybe there's something in one or the other that contradicts each other and renders it ineffective. Is it possible with sunscreen? I can't figure out how it works if you put on one sunscreen and then top it off with another. Which one overrides the other?

free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 8:37 pm

sorry to confuse--i only use one at a time, but tend to rotate them during the week. the ZO SS is like a tinted moisturizer, and the others are without tint, so when I'm just running around without makeup I use one of the non tinted ones.

-avalange

Bira wrote:

I am a little confused, Avalange. Why do you have to apply so many different sunscreens everyday? Why don't you just use one sunscreen and determine which one is not protecting your face? I think if you mix them up, maybe there's something in one or the other that contradicts each other and renders it ineffective. Is it possible with sunscreen? I can't figure out how it works if you put on one sunscreen and then top it off with another. Which one overrides the other?

free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 8:42 pm

I tan easily too and have always packed on sunscreen (except in the summer but now I use it all year round) and still managed to tan. I also burn though so that's why for me sunscreen is a must. I love having a tan though.

free skin care · Thu May 07, 2009 11:17 pm

I see now. Thanks for clarifying. So I'd suggest that you stick with the one you think is causing you to tan to see if that's really it. If it is, then time to throw it away. But tan is good, isn't it? Freckles and sun spots are not good, but even tan sounds nice.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 2:25 am

Bira wrote:

Freckles and sun spots are not good, but even tan sounds nice.

I agree. I wear Bioderma MAX Lait SPF 100/PPD 31, and still manage to accumulate 5-10 freckles/year. You can't expect a sunscreen to completely filter out UV, so consider yourself lucky that the damage is minimalized. Besides, you said yourself you tan very easily. And at least a tan will fade over time-- I'm still trying to figure out how to get rid of those freckles!!

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 9:02 am

I'm more concerned that one of the sunscreens I have been using is not filtering sun out at all. Because, as I said earlier, I'm out for about 10 minute incidental to direct exposures at a time, maybe once or twice a day. Other than that, I'm in the shade or indoors. SPF is based on the amount of time one can spend in direct exposure before one's skin becomes suscpetible to UVB/UVA rays. If I was out for several hours every day and got a little tan, I would consider that perfectly normal. But when the sunscreen is not protecting at ALL, and it costs more than $50, I'm not happy!

--avalange

fat_swan wrote:

Bira wrote:

Freckles and sun spots are not good, but even tan sounds nice.

I agree. I wear Bioderma MAX Lait SPF 100/PPD 31, and still manage to accumulate 5-10 freckles/year. You can't expect a sunscreen to completely filter out UV, so consider yourself lucky that the damage is minimalized. Besides, you said yourself you tan very easily. And at least a tan will fade over time-- I'm still trying to figure out how to get rid of those freckles!!

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 9:05 am

of course, we cannot have everything, but I do wish the NIA24 ss was a little more "cosmetically elegant." My boyfriend always tells me that my skin looks super whitish when I wear it.

--avalange

athena123 wrote:

avalange.... I've been using NIA24 for nearly a year now.... no residual sun exposure on face and neck. I haven't tried the other 2 you mentioned, so can't say.

OTOH, I do use Blue Lizard sunscreen on hands and forearms that get a lot more incidental exposure to the sun... and they still manage to tan no matter how frequently I reapply it.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 9:40 am

avalange wrote:

I'm more concerned that one of the sunscreens I have been using is not filtering sun out at all. Because, as I said earlier, I'm out for about 10 minute incidental to direct exposures at a time, maybe once or twice a day. Other than that, I'm in the shade or indoors. SPF is based on the amount of time one can spend in direct exposure before one's skin becomes suscpetible to UVB/UVA rays. If I was out for several hours every day and got a little tan, I would consider that perfectly normal. But when the sunscreen is not protecting at ALL, and it costs more than $50, I'm not happy!

--avalange

In that case, why don't you try one on each arm for a week and see which side gets darker? I know the ZO is expensive, but if you're having doubts this is pretty much the only way to find out for sure, unless you're willing to give it up altogether... Sorry I can't be more helpful!

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 12:11 pm

avalange wrote:

SPF is based on the amount of time one can spend in direct exposure before one's skin becomes suscpetible to UVB/UVA rays.

avalange - i'm no expert on sunscreens, as i don't use them, i'm nocturnal and either sleeping or indoors during sunlight hours.

However my limited understanding is that the "SPF" rating only refers to UVB filtering, not UVA. I think those PA+++ or PPD ratings refer to UVA filtering, maybe you could try something with a higher rating PA/PPD? From my, once again limited understanding, the term "broad spectrum" means pretty well bugger all in terms of US/FDA labelling. I don't know if those PA+++ ratings are even allowed on US labelled products ???

Sadly, those ladies who are very knowledgeable about sunscreens don't seem to post here much any more ...

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 1:54 pm

avalange wrote:

of course, we cannot have everything, but I do wish the NIA24 ss was a little more "cosmetically elegant." My boyfriend always tells me that my skin looks super whitish when I wear it.

--avalange

I agree....NIA24 leaves a whitish cast but eventually disappears. The most "cosmetically elegant" sunscreen I tried during my 2 year search for THE facial sunscreen was Clarins UV40... Loved the way it went on, mineral base and enough 'cones to double as a makeup primer. The problem was the cost.... @ nearly $40 USD per ounce, I would have been tempted to "conserve" it, to make that tiny bottle last longer and not used enough for effectiveness.

Theory vs. reality. My reality is that a "right" product must fit the needs of my skin AND the limitations of my budget. Smile

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 2:10 pm

I'm very disappointed at ZO Oclipse Sunscreen. First of all, it makes my pale skin look beigish, second, I think it clogs the pores and third, it does not protect well enough! Very expensive and very useless Embarassed

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 3:01 pm

Good post appletini!

I put my SS to the test this week: a 5 hour car ride in the middle of the day and then a walk outside in the sunshine!

I used BIODERMA PHOTOMAX 50+ (spf 100/ppd 35 by French standards). No burn, no tan, no melasma! Usually I would have a noticeable reverse raccoon from wearing sunglasses, but nada!
Available at skincarecentral.biz for $30/40ml tube.
Ingredients
Water (Aqua), Dicaprylyl Carbonate, Octocrylene, Methylene Bis-Benzotriazolyl Tetramethylbutylphenol (Tinosorb M), Butyl Methoxydibenzoylmethan, Cyclomethicone, Alcohol Dentat., C-20-22 Alkyl Phosphate, Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine (Tinosorb S), PTFE, C-20-22 Alcohols, Tocopheryl Acetate, Ectoin, Mannitol, Xylitol, Rhamnose, Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Laminaria Ochroleuca Extract, Decyl Glucoside, Xanthan Gum, Ammonium Acryloyldimethyltaurate/VP Copolymer, Disodium EDTA, Sodium Hydroxide, Propylene Glycol, Citric Acid, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Ethylparaben.

Contains no tido nor zno so it doesn't have the "Casper" effect.

Another one I like (from the same site) is AVENE EMULSION 50+ (also rated 100/35 by French). It has tido/zno so is more likely to look white at first, but it absorbs well and doesn't look white after a couple minutes.
Ingredients
Avène Thermal Spring Water (Avene Aqua), Ethylhexyl Methoxycinnamate, Methylene
Bis-Benzotriazolyl Tetramethylbutylphenol, Aqua, Buttylene Glycol C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Cyclomethicone, Bis-Ethylhexyloxyphenol Methoxyphenyl Triazine, Dimethicone, Cetearyl Alcohol C20-22 Alkyl Sphosphate, Polymethyl Methacrylate, C20-22 Alcohols, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Chlorhenesin, Coco-Glucoside, Cucurbita Pepo, Decyl Glucoside, Disodium EDTA, Parfum, Hydroxethyl Acrylate/Sodium Acryloydimethyl Taurate Copolymer, Phenoxethanol, Polysorbate 60, Propylene Glycol, Sorbic Acid, Squalane, Titanium Dioxide, Tocopheryl Glucoside, Triethanolamine, Triethoxycaprylsilance, Trimethoxycaprylsilane, Xanthan Gum, Zinc Oxide.

Both products are "cosmetically elegant" and suitable under foundation and contain Tinosorb to stabilize the chemicals. My skin is normal but tends to be oily in summer and these are the best I have tried.

If you log into makeupalley.com with your user name and look for "sunscreens" notepad, there is the best listing of sunscreens you can find!

HTH a little

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 3:42 pm

I don't think the ZO sunscreen offers enough protection either. I wouldn't use it on a really bright, sunny day. I got a little burned myself one day when I used it on a sunny day. If I had to guess I would say the ZO is the culprit.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 3:43 pm

avalange wrote:

of course, we cannot have everything, but I do wish the NIA24 ss was a little more "cosmetically elegant." My boyfriend always tells me that my skin looks super whitish when I wear it.

--avalange

athena123 wrote:

avalange.... I've been using NIA24 for nearly a year now.... no residual sun exposure on face and neck. I haven't tried the other 2 you mentioned, so can't say.

OTOH, I do use Blue Lizard sunscreen on hands and forearms that get a lot more incidental exposure to the sun... and they still manage to tan no matter how frequently I reapply it.

avalange, you might try to apply Dr.H bronzing concentrate with your NIA sunscreen, it helps nicely to remove the white cast, and you can regulate the skin tone by applying more or less of the product.
as for testing effectiveness of your sunscreens, I think fat_swan has a good point here - you can apply different sunscreens on your arms/forearms and see.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 3:48 pm

jom wrote:

I don't think the ZO sunscreen offers enough protection either. I wouldn't use it on a really bright, sunny day. I got a little burned myself one day when I used it on a sunny day. If I had to guess I would say the ZO is the culprit.

it`s a shame that such an expensive product turned out being useless! I`m glad I haven`t bought it...
may it serve to prove that high price tag for a product does not necessarily mean that this product will meet your high expectations... Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 4:47 pm

I think it's the ZO sunscreen that's the culprit. It has a pitifully low concentration of Zinc Oxide.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 5:04 pm

Nimue wrote:

I think it's the ZO sunscreen that's the culprit. It has a pitifully low concentration of Zinc Oxide.

But NIA 24 does not have high % of Zine either, only 3.6%. I much rather they up the zinc and lower the Titanium dioxide.

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 5:07 pm

I'll tell you. I was reading on the Blue Lizard site a year ago. that they were most concerned about people that RUB IN their product. If you're really rubbing it in to say (get rid of the white cast) you are in essence rubbing it OFF! So, if you're wearing a physical sunscreen that is a bit white... you need to let a bit of the white remain. So, for my face, I do that, and cover it (if I'm going to be seen in public) with a makeup that also has a 15 in it)

That's just for out and about activity.

If I PLAN to be in the sun, I use a few things:

California Baby Stick - It's white, and I draw it on like paint on my cheeks, nose, and forehead.

Blue Lizard...I use the one for kids...

Kinesys... which is a spray and CLEAR!!! A physical block. I sprayed my arms the other day , 'cause I knew I'd be hanging my arm out the car window... and I missed a spot... and there is a HUGE difference. and a burnt spot! It also dries really fast...

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 5:46 pm

Is there something wrong with Titanium Dioxide? LRP SPF40 has that ingredient in it. I bought it but have not started using it yet. Should I return it? Confused

free skin care · Fri May 08, 2009 10:13 pm

There is nothing wrong with zinc oxide - straight from the tube it's sun BLOCK. Nothing gets through it. It's greasy and it's opaque white (clown makeup), so it's not a popular choice for wearing in public.

For avalange - sunSCREEN doesn't block 100% of the sun. Even using it properly (e.g., re-applying it according to the directions), you will pick up color if you're out long enough. It only screens. It doesn't block. You need some sun exposure so your body manufactures Vitamin D.

An aesthetician told me that SPF 15 (or maybe SPF 40?)is the equivalent of having two towels covering your skin. As you know, you can get tanned on places you never expose to the sun directly to the sun.

free skin care · Sat May 09, 2009 6:38 am

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I'll tell you. I was reading on the Blue Lizard site a year ago. that they were most concerned about people that RUB IN their product. If you're really rubbing it in to say (get rid of the white cast) you are in essence rubbing it OFF! So, if you're wearing a physical sunscreen that is a bit white... you need to let a bit of the white remain. .

Great point, Claudia. This is true of all the physical sunscreens. You are not supposed to rub them in. You are just supposed to spread them over the face. Avalange, were you rubbing the ZO sunscreen in, or just smoothing it over your face? I would agree with fat_swan, try each one on their own for a while to see which one is causing you problems. (It may be more than 1 that you are tanning through.)

ETA: I also meant to say that I used the ZO Oclipse the last time I used Nu Derm. I noticed toward the end of my 18 weeks, I had freckled through in some spots, which was really unusual for me. So, the ZO Sunscreen could definitely be your problem. Too bad, as I loved everything about that sunscreen!

free skin care · Sat May 09, 2009 9:20 am

ClaudiaFE wrote:

I'll tell you. I was reading on the Blue Lizard site a year ago. that they were most concerned about people that RUB IN their product. If you're really rubbing it in to say (get rid of the white cast) you are in essence rubbing it OFF!

I am confused how is rub in = rub off?

I cannot be so certain now if I am rubbing in or just spreading? But I am certain that my ss stayed on judging by how much I take off when I wash my face.

free skin care · Sat May 09, 2009 10:08 am

Avalange,

I think part of the problem may be you are using Retin A too frequently. If you use it daily, it will increase your skin's photosensitivity tremendously, and even heavy duty SS may not help prevent some UV damage.

But I would suggest, if you want a really good, natural SS to try the new 302 ones. They have extremely high zinc content in them, 12% on the SPF 15 and 20% on the SPF 30. Plus they are tinted, so the Casper the ghost effect is not as bad. It's brand new. You can wear the SS even if you are not a 302 user.

Here are the product descriptions:

302 SPF 15

Introduction
Chemical free, all natural sun reflector formula provides UVA/UVB protection.

Description
Easily spread, hydrating, self-preserved emulsion of >80% certified organic ingredients provided in 4 ounce amber pump bottles.

Mechanisms
Reflects UVA and UVB rays from sunlight via natural ultra-micronized minerals zinc and titanium oxide.

Esthetic Results
Reduces chance of sunburn by 93% when properly applied.

Instructions
Apply generously before exposure to sunlight. Reapply after swimming or heavy perspiring.

Precautions
Topical use only. Apply to test area and wait 24 hours. If irritation develops, discontinue.

Ingredients
Extracts from certified organic plants: german chamomile, rosemary, lemon balm, lavender & green tea in an aqueous base; kosher glycerine, organic jojoba oil, phyto-lipids of avocado, mixed silicones, cellulose polymer, polyglucose derived surfactant, camphor and tangerine oil, sodium benzoate, iron oxides.

Active Ingredients: micronized zinc oxide 12%, titanium dioxide 1%

Performance

Blocks 93% of UV-A and UV-B when applied evenly to skin.

Carbamoyl phosphate induces rapid moisture retention properties to epidermal tissue damaged by the environment or chronologic aging.

Excellent for sun sensitive skin

302 SPF 30

Introduction
Chemical free, all natural sun reflector formula provides UVA/UVB protection.

Description
Easily spread, hydrating, self-preserved emulsion of >80% certified organic ingredients provided in 4 ounce amber pump bottles.

Mechanisms
Reflects 97% UVA and UVB rays from sunlight via natural ultra-micronized minerals zinc and titanium oxide.

Esthetic Results
Reduces chance of sunburn by 97% when properly applied.

Instructions
Apply generously before exposure to sunlight. Reapply after swimming or heavy perspiring.

Precautions
Topical use only. Apply to test area and wait 24 hours. If irritation develops, discontinue.

Ingredients
Extracts from certified organic plants: german chamomile, rosemary, lemon balm, lavender & green tea in an aqueous base; kosher glycerine, organic jojoba oil, phyto-lipids of avocado, mixed silicones, cellulose polymer, polyglucose derived surfactant, camphor and tangerine oil, sodium benzoate, iron oxides.

Active Ingredients: micronized zinc oxide 20%, titanium dioxide 1%

Performance

Blocks 97% of UV-A and UV-B when applied evenly to skin.

Carbamoyl phosphate induces rapid moisture retention properties to epidermal tissue damaged by the environment or chronologic aging.

Excellent for sun sensitive skin

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