Facial Exercise: Share the Process and Results
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free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:17 pm

I'll add my thanks, cm5597. It's particularly valuable to get the perspective of someone who has approached muscle building in a scientific, methodical way (vs the voodoo that pops into so many discussions of skincare).

I have also lifted weights for years, not as a bodybuilder but just as part of exercising, and never realized that the exact position of the hands and the particular angles mattered so much. Face muscles should be no different. Yes, it makes sense. But now, what to do with that information?!?

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:20 pm

Hermosa the voodoo comment just cracked me up Laughing

Toby

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:10 pm

Might I suggest that those of you that are looking for some tweaking of whatever program you are using... USE YOUR CAMERA's and VIDEO CAMERA's for some helpful insight from your available trainers.

Skype is awesome. At least one our trainers uses it. But I find that a person's problem areas can be evaluated in part through a photo. As well as a small recording. I know even my CELL phone will take a quality enough photo that can be e-mailed to oneself and posted for evaluation. You can use YouTube to post a video if you can't get what you're looking at on a camera.

I find the people that have the most unresolved problems, are perhaps having a difficult time understanding the written directions, and they also have a difficult time describing what they are looking at... and also don't have to offer a photo for any sort of evaul. It's like shooting in the dark to help resolve.

Oh... and you can also purchase CHEAP throw away cameras and have your photo's developed to a disk to use as well. I figure, if you're on the computer you have the ability to get personal assistance! You don't have to live in the same city as a trainer of any program in the world. You just need a connection to the web.

I love hearing all of your stories....

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:26 pm

Claudia I totally agree about the camera and video for showing the issues....not only will it help the trainers see the problem but it help you see the progress yourself. Taking pictures from a frontal view, 3/4 view, and side view are most helpful. For a long time I was making judgements on a frontal view and never looked at a side view until I started taking pictures....big shock Shock

Although I see myself daily in the mirror really looking at pictures side by side and getting a trainers opinion is so helpful. I am challenged with reading directions...I am a visual learner Confused

So pictures and videos and possible web cam classes are helpful for tweaking! Wink

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:54 pm

Quote:

I have also lifted weights for years, not as a bodybuilder but just as part of exercising, and never realized that the exact position of the hands and the particular angles mattered so much. Face muscles should be no different. Yes, it makes sense. But now, what to do with that information?!?

I mean the examples I mentioned with the various wrist rotations are somewhat more advanced techniques...but we can all relate to the idea that technique matters in lifting weights...perhaps a better analogy is to pretend someone says to bend your elbow and just apply resistance to the bicep. Pretending you are a child and you don't know what a bicep curl is, most children are going to get it wrong--they might flop and twist their arm or just let momentum take over and not isolate the muscle or even accidentally allow other muscles to lift more of the weight--until they see it precisely demonstrated and realize what a controlled movement it is. Personally, doing facial exercises, I notice large differences on the quality of the contractions/resistance applied depending on the exact placement of my fingers along the muscle, the quality of my grip, the angle of my grips (some angles allowed me to apply more resistance than others, though part of that is because of my fingers, not my facial muscles), etc. That's why I did not like as much the approach of "exact grip and placement doesn't matter as long as you feel resistance in the muscle being worked" that was presented in some programs; there are better and worst ways to isolate and apply resistance to a muscle, even if you feel do feel some resistance in the right muscle.

But my pontificating aside, I think the ultimate success of the quality of any exercise is best judged by the quality of contractions that *you* personally feel. So what I'm trying to say in response to "now, what to do with that information" is I would say that you should try out the grip presented to you in any exercise program and then try very slightly changing it in a lot of different ways so that you can find what exact grip and finger placement works best for you. These days, if I start with a grip/angle/position that doesn't give me strong enough resistance within my first two reps for me to feel that like "geez, this is sooooo hard!!", then I let go of my grip, and try again. And yes, it happens to me every day; it's not easy for me. The reason I think it's harder with facial exercises is that the muscles are smaller and are more intertwined, plus it's much easier for one's grip to slip.

Related to the other points brought up about comparing facial exercise to regular body exercise....I have not entirely figured out the facial muscles, but the differences I am aware of between them and most other muscles in the body are (1) they are smaller, (2) one end of them attaches to the skin, so unfortunately training stress shows up there, (3) they are more interconnected than other muscles, (4) asymmetry in muscle build is much easier to perceive in the face, and (5) because most people don't exercise them and when they do make expressions, several muscles come into play, it's really a challenge to isolate some of them--you have to build up that mind-muscle connection, which takes a while. I try to carry all that I know about bodybuilding over to facial building, but I find that while most of it applies, that not everything applies. For example, symmetry matters so much more in facial building than in regular bodybuilding. Geez, I never really ever had to seriously worry about symmetry when training my body, but I do have to a lot with my face. I forget what percentage of a bodybuilding competitor's score is symmetry, but is seems to be a much larger component of successful facial building. And it seems that virtually everyone at some point runs into symmetry problems from muscles building at different rates, though some much crop up faster and/or are more severe than others. I think the symmetry issues and the skin stress issues are among the biggest problems that people run into and that cause them to give up on a particular facial program or on facial exercise all together (which is very sad)...But yes, *mostly*, facial exercise is directly analogous to body muscle training.

And finally, this relates to Claudia's excellent point and something I should have said earlier. If you follow the program as described with no outside help, you are limited by your own understanding of the training techniques as presented in the program you purchased...this is especially hard emotionally when you run into asymmetry or stress issues, especially when you aren't sure what the source of the problem is...in this case, I would strongly recommend getting guidance from the developer, if s/he offers consultations, or his/her trainers either through a paid consultation (the better option) or through his/her forums (if s/he has one). You don't have to go it alone and you *will* progress faster and with fewer problems and issues.

HTH Smile

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:07 pm

Btw, I did feel a little vulnerable posting so much about my experiences...but if I significantly help at least one person, then it's worth it...so thanks to everyone who chimed in with kind words; it means a lot to me Smile

Hugs

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:28 pm

cm5597
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your terrific chronical of facial exercise. I appreciate the detail you have shared and the obvious, in-depth thought of what you did, what worked and why. Really, a big WOW!

I especially appreciate the emphasis you place on the TIME and the diligence it takes - to getting the job done... Isn't that the truth. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is the face...Right!
And isn't it marvelous to know that the results can keep coming years down the road? Stick with it and you just get better.... Neat-o.

Loli has been an inspiration to me too.

I just finished my long FE exercise regime. I try to do about 28-30 of the exercises three times a week. I love the "holds" also for FE - especially the advanced ones. LL's Ageless is sometimes an easier lot to fit in and I appreciate having them in my arsenol. No guilts - if I at least get some of the exercise in every day.
I read a post by Toby today and she mentions how she Cherry picks around with some facial work and that's what I do to. I have the strong basic FE work out and throw in Ageless and then it can be any number of things.
Personally I think it's good to change things up. I will never just use one program - weightlifters don't. In fact I started working out with a group of women and a trainer and he's had us do all kinds of different stuff and I'm feeling muscles I forgot I had and I have lifted weights for years. Yep - always good to move things around somewhat. Isn't it wonderful to have options?

I too love CM's nose exercise - I try to do a couple sets a day of 40 or so. Nothing like a cute, perky nose.... Wink

Anyway - It is wonderful of you to share so much with all of us.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart and wish you continued success.

free skin care · Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:33 pm

Toby told me about CM's post -
I agree - a Very wonderful post!
Thank you CM so much for sharing!

free skin care · Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:37 am

I wish that there was a dvd for every program automatically so much easier to understand and follow. It is almot like having a private session!

free skin care · Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:55 am

Ah, Sister Sweets, I love your can-do, positive attitude and your enthusiasm! Thanks for your kind words! I, too, wish you and everyone else the utmost of success!! Smile

Quote:

I especially appreciate the emphasis you place on the TIME and the diligence it takes - to getting the job done... Isn't that the truth. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is the face...Right!

You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems like that is the real key here. If you have the patience and determination to just do it most days, not feel guilty when you miss days, not be anxious if results do not come in the first few months while you are building that mind-muscle connection, then you are going to succeed. I was far from that perfect ideal, fretting, worrying, doubting, looking for changes in the mirror every day, obsessing about it to my boyfriend every day (ideally, you do not want to do this Very Happy

)...all this, even though I was convinced that facial exercises worked at least to some degree...but I had just enough tenacity to keep going...and I'm so glad I did. I think that before you are 100% convinced something is working, mentally it feels SO hard to keep going and less than optimal results (e.g., asymmetry issues) test you like nothing else, but once feel in control of your muscles and training and you are 100% certain it works, then it mentally feels easy and you are more relaxed. I just want people to be aware of that potential mental hump, so to speak. One of the reasons I wrote such a long, detailed post is that I think sometimes people "quit before the miracle happens" (a Debbie Merrill quotation) because when other people tell their success stories doing XYZ, those successful people are so excited about the end result that they forget to emphasize what it took to get there. Then people get a false impression of what it takes, so when things don't go smoothly, they think the reason why is because XYZ doesn't actually work. In so many cases, if people knew that the process itself presents challenges and is not fast, then they'll be much better equipped mentally to power through the temporary challenges.

Quote:

In fact I started working out with a group of women and a trainer and he's had us do all kinds of different stuff and I'm feeling muscles I forgot I had and I have lifted weights for years. Yep - always good to move things around somewhat. Isn't it wonderful to have options?

Yes, so true: it's important to mix training schedules, exercise techniques, every so often to make sure the muscles are always growing and/or improving.

Hugs Smile

free skin care · Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:42 am

CM ~ Your post was truly amazing and thank you for sharing! I would have to say I was truly blown away by your detailed account. I was also shocked to see that someone so young was using facial exercise techniques. I believe you said you started at age 20? So if I understand you correctly you basically started because you had very little body fat due to your diet and the body building, and then the lack of volume in the face occurred. Is that correct? WOW. I have always been rather thin and not very muscular, had a rather thin face, but have been able to achieve some fullness, higher cheeks, a firm jawline, opened my eye area, raised my eyebrows, shortened & narrowed my nose tip (even straightened my crooked nose with a special technique CM showed me) and created an an overall glow to my face using Facercise exclusively. I'd have to say, when I've overdone the exercises like when I first started, (doing them more than 2x a day), I would create an opposite effect. However, when I was consistent and performed them just once to twice a day, I started to see some really positive things happening. I never gave up on the program, and have created some great results in over the 10+ years I've been using the program. However, I began the program at a much older age than you. I started my Facercise journey at age 42. When I was in my twenties, my face appeared full and firm due to my youth and being a relatively good weight - 5' 7" and 118-125 lbs. However, as we age, even if we stay approximately the same weight, our faces will thin, as well as the skin (due to peri-menopause). To make up for the lack of facial fat, using Facercise, I was able to create more fullness. However, whenever I get too thin, my face will of course, appear more gaunt than I would like! Whenever this occurs, I have to remind myself to eat more protein (as many women lack in their diets) and more avocados, whole grains, fruit, etc. But, at age 52 I would have never thought my 11-year old son or his friends would say I looked the same as I did at age 41, but they have. So I suppose different programs work differently for different people. I feel Facercise, as all facial exercise programs work much the same way though ~ through resistence. To me that is the foundation of what all facial exercise programs are built upon. Don't you think? I would be interested in how you filled in the hollow area you speak about though in between the bucinator muscle and the corner of the mouth. This is the area that I see hollows out the most when I am extra thin. I believe we do need some weight on our bodies to be successful in filling in that particular area. If you have been able to crate fullness in that area, without gaining any additional weight, I would love to know how! Please advise your thoughts on this, & I thank you for your post! Best, Aprile

free skin care · Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:04 am

April - How long does the Cm program take you? And you say you do it twice a day? Do you use a DVD?

free skin care · Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:16 pm

Hi Sister ~ When I first started using CM's Facercise, I did it twice a day every day. Now I only perform the routine 1x a day, and it takes me only 10 minutes. I actually have my own tape which Carole made for me after our one-on-one training session in NYC. I use it in a "walkman" type device. YES ~ it's one of those old cassette tapes! YIKES! But, it works for me. Also helps me focus and concentrate more since I hear her directly in my ear without any distractions! Aprile

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:12 am

Have any of you guys seen those photos of twinkles onthe flex effect website? OMG Shock

what a fantastic result on her eyes! I like the fact that the lighting is the same and no makeup is used in both photos for an honest comparison.Her tear troughs look better and the darkness and hollowness is gone from her inner eye...it is truly unbelieveable!How does exercise do that????????? Embarassed

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:15 am

http://www.flexeffect.com/TwinklesBA.htm here it is

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:03 am

Quote:

I believe you said you started at age 20? So if I understand you correctly you basically started because you had very little body fat due to your diet and the body building, and then the lack of volume in the face occurred. Is that correct? WOW.

Yes, I started it when I had a normal face and no problems with gauntness. But around the age of 24.5, I dropped from 127 lbs down to 112 lbs at 5'4", leaving me with a body fat percentage around 19-20%, so I would consider that trim and fit but not very low fat (my bodybuilding days were in my teens). From parents and old photos of my grandparents when they were younger, it seems like the main problem is genetics: when fit and thin, my family has gaunt-ish and severe-looking cheeks; I think this is just one of those 1 in 5,000 things for which I pulled the unlucky genetic straw, so to speak. However, I probably ran into this problem sooner than I should have otherwise: I do strongly suspect that the rapid weight loss, even though not leaving me very thin, made the cheek hollows deeper. (Moral of the story: lose weight slowly Smile

) I now have my protein levels tested now, and they are within the middle of normal range, so I know at least that my cheeks are not *remaining* hollow for a lack of protein.

Quote:

I have always been rather thin and not very muscular, had a rather thin face, but have been able to achieve some fullness, higher cheeks, a firm jawline, opened my eye area, raised my eyebrows, shortened & narrowed my nose tip (even straightened my crooked nose with a special technique CM showed me) and created an an overall glow to my face using Facercise exclusively....But, at age 52 I would have never thought my 11-year old son or his friends would say I looked the same as I did at age 41, but they have!

WOW, Aprile, it's all very inspiring, especially to hear from someone who has been doing facial exercises so much longer than virtually everyone else! That's so wonderful!!! Congratulations!! I hope the not aging happens to me, too Very Happy

Even though you are in maintenance mode, do you still continue to see changes in your face every now and then?

Quote:

So I suppose different programs work differently for different people. I feel Facercise, as all facial exercise programs work much the same way though ~ through resistence. To me that is the foundation of what all facial exercise programs are built upon. Don't you think?

Oh, sorry for my lack of clarity! Let me start over, and I'll also add extra content for those who don't know as much about toning vs muscle-building. Broadly-speaking, there seem to me to be at least three types of facial exercises:

(1) Facial exercises that involve making facial expressions or funny faces: These exercises do not involve any applied resistance (i.e. no hands and no gadgets are involved, just contorting the face) and are the equivalent of doing a bicep curl with no weights. Therefore, they can/might maintain muscle tone, reduce sag, and reduce wrinkles, but they do not build muscle size.

(2) Facial exercises that involve some resistance but are still toning exercises: either the resistance isn't high enough (e.g., a sign of this is often using high reps in a single set) or it is not applied through the entire contraction and elongation of the muscle or the pressure is applied to the muscle in a way that doesn't act like a effective weight on the muscle. Usually the hands or some sort of gadget is used to apply the resistance. This is the equivalent of lifting light or moderate weights or lifting weights in a way that doesn't build muscle bulk. Since these exercises involve more muscle effort per rep than for type #1 exercises, these exercises tend to be more effective at toning and firming the face and improving circulation than type #1 exercises, but it is hard to get much of a serious increase in muscle size with these exercises.

(3) Facial exercises that involve high resistance and that resistance is applied in a controlled deliberate way through the entirety of the movement, both during muscle contraction (known as the positive phase) and the muscle elongation (known as the negative phase). (The hidden secret of bodybuilding is that more of the gain in muscle size actually comes from the negative phase, not the positive phase, which is the opposite of what we'd all naturally expect.) Generally, because of the heavy weights, something like 6-12 reps are performed, though sometimes people use up to something like 20 and the goal is to work the muscle hard enough that the muscle is so tired by the end that it is hard to do additional reps. Usually the repetitions are also performed slowly and with the utmost of control, to better force the muscle to increase in strength and size. These type of exercises would be called resistance-training, strength-training, or body-building exercises. Just have to put this in, since there's so much bias out there: Often when people think of bodybuilding exercises, they think only of bodybuilders, but bodybuilding has a lot more applications, like filling out a flat behind on a swimsuit model, getting a 6-pack, getting beautiful defined shoulders, etc. So body-building isn't just for body-builders. I find that most people could use a combination of body-building and toning exercises to enhance their appearance; it all depends on the present size of each muscle and amount of fat covering that muscle.

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:34 am

cm5597 is new here and can only post five posts a day. She wanted to add more to the post above and is blocked. She sent a pm to me to post the rest of this for everyone to see.

This is the post from cm5597
Sorry, my post keeps getting rejected for some reason ...here's the rest of my message

Long explanation aside, what I was intending to say is that most facial programs involve only facial exercises that fall under types #1 and #2. For examples,
(a) Shapeyourface.com focuses on type #1 exercieses,
(b) Tal Reinhardt's "The Facial Workout DVD" focuses on type #2 exercises, but also has some type #1 exercises
(c) Facercise has some exercises that fall into category #1, some that fall into category #2, and maybe a couple that fall under category #3, if I recall correctly.
(d) The focus of the FlexEffect program is type #3 exercises, but some toning exercises are included in the back section of the book for when you want to mix things or reach maintenance size for a particular muscle

So whether an exercise works for someone depends to a large degree on what the person needs, e.g.,
(a) if you have deflated parts of your face from age-associated fat/muscle/volume loss, then you want to look for something with type #3 exercises for those areas
(b) if sag and wrinkles are an issue, then all three types of types of exercises will probably help
(c) if parts of your face are a good size volume from some combination of muscle and fat, then toning exercises #1 and #2 are a good
match, or you use do type #3 exercises but either reduce the resistance you apply or do them less frequently to maintain your results

Plus, I should say
(a) any type #3 exercise in any program can always be converted into a type #2 toning exercise by simply applying less resistance;
(b) sometimes a type #2 exercise can be directly converted type #3 building exercise by simply applying more resistance, though often they cannot without additional modifications to the technique; and
(c) type #1 exercises obviously not be simply converted into type #2 or type #3 exercises, since they involve no resistance in the first place.

Quote:
I would be interested in how you filled in the hollow area you speak about though in between the bucinator muscle and the corner of the mouth. This is the area that I see hollows out the most when I am extra thin.

Well, I have not finished filling them in...so I still have a ways to go

So the reason why Carol Maggio's exercise for the cheek hollows (Face Widener) did not work for me at all is because her exercise for this muscle of the face (buccinators) is a type #1 exercise and so does not involve any applied resistance. So for me, with my Madonna-esque severe hollows (if anyone has seen the gaunt pictures of Madonna, you know what I mean!), this kind of exercise would not help me reach my goal of restoring a significant amount of lost volume in my face. But if you haven't lost the volume or are in maintenance mode, this can be a great exercise to have in your repertoire.

So to fill out a significant amount of lost volume in the cheek hollows part of the face, what I think you need instead is an exercise for the buccinators that falls under category #3, i.e., the resistance should be very high and you should reach muscle fatigue within a lower number of reps.

Sorry for being not so articulate on what I meant the first time I said! I hope this helps clarifies what I originally meant but includes some of the subtleties

Btw, Aprile, out of curiosity, did you ever go through awkward stages? Are there any of Carole Maggio's exercises that you felt you got a lot of muscle build out of, or did you mostly need toning?

It was so great to hear from you, Aprile , and to hear from someone who has been doing facial exercise for so long! Take care and hugs

_________________
29 y.o. Top Skin Adjuncts: FlexEffect, Vigorous Massage, Skin Brushing/Manual Exfoliation, Raw food diet (Green Smoothies & Juices!), Natural Oils (Sea Buckthorn, Avocado, Olive, & Rosehip Seed), Hot & Cold Therapies

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:02 am

I'm glad you metioned that any type three can be converted to type two exercise. Smile

that fact gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.
Also I wold like to add that taking a break from one exercise and addding in a new exercise for any particular grouping of muscles can shock a muscle into responding if it seems to have hit a plateau and increasing reps or resistance is not getting a desired result.

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:21 am

IMCathy wrote:

I'm glad you metioned that any type three can be converted to type two exercise. Smile

that fact gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.
Also I wold like to add that taking a break from one exercise and addding in a new exercise for any particular grouping of muscles can shock a muscle into responding if it seems to have hit a plateau and increasing reps or resistance is not getting a desired result.

This is one of the reasons it is great to have a broad repertoire of exercises to choose from - from different sources. I'd be curious to find out more about which of Carol Maggio's are type 3. (I'll assume the nose shortener/thinner is ).

And cm5597 question: where do you see Ageless falling in the type 2/3 range?
You have brought a lot of fantastic information to the table. Thanks.

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:14 pm

Toby,

Thanks so much for posting for CM ~ that was so nice of you!

Hope you are doing well ~ Aprile

free skin care · Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:08 pm

CM ~

Thanks so much for answering all of my questions! You certainly seem to have a wealth of information regarding facial exercise and wonderful insight! As for my experience with Carole Maggio's program: I would have to say that when I first started the program, I went overboard. So much so that, I had fatigued the muscles of the face that they never had enough time to recover and build. I was so desperate to see immediate change, that I went overboard, and started to create some bad results. In desperation, I called Carole and asked her what I might be doing wrong for such a thing to happen. She explained that I had overworked the muscles and that proper form and technique while concentrating on the muscles (mind-muscle connection) were more important than the number of reps. Not that I shouldn't perform the exercises 2x a day, but NOT 3, 4 or 5 times a day to speed up my results!! After I listened to her, I backed off and good things came. After a month of backing off, I started to notice some really nice changes & never again had setbacks, only strides forward. I do understand now what you are saying with respect to the categories of people and where they fit in with the different types of facial exercise programs. (I for one could never incorporate those gadgets or stick my fingers in my mouth!) I enjoy the portable nature of Facercise myself! I do feel that CM's Facercise program is mainly in the #3 category, with the exception of the # of reps. The reason I say this is that the exercises are both toning and building, thus creating volume and lift. However, I truly feel the exercise to address the hollow in the cheek area (face widener) cannot build out that area much without some underlying fat. Simply put because that muscle is fairly flat from what I can see from the diagrams. The muscle I refer to is in between the jaw hinge and the corner of the mouth. Don't you think? So, basically when I am heavier than 128-132 at 5'7", that area of my face will be fuller. But, I tend to be on the thin side, so it remains a little bit hollowed. Do you feel you have an exercise to better build that muscle, other than one to build the bucinator muscle? The bucinator is the muscle near the jaw hinge, correct? Isn't there a muscle in between the bucinator and the corner of the mouth? Anyway, the overall changes & lift my face has gotten from Facercising, using her facial beauty mitt (dry brushing to exfoliate, detoxify, firm, thicken and lift) and her amazing facial enzymes are truly incredible. I also have to add too that Carole has somewhat changed her techniques over the years, adding resistance to existing exercises and adding newer advanced exercises as well. The resistance she's added in ways such as having you lay down and push your feet against the wall or press your shoulders into the floor, etc. I can't really see any other way to achieve more resistance, can you? Yes, I still see changes in my face as the years pass. I feel my face looks stronger than when I began and yet it still maintains its softness ~ if you know what I mean. Recently, I began changing the way I perform the nose shortener exercise through a tip on Carole' newsletter, and have narrowed the tip of my nose even more. I would definitely agree with you that it is more challenging to create volume in a face that's lost volume due to weight loss or just being naturally thinner than your average person. At 5'4" and 112 lbs. ~ you are definitely thinner than your average woman! By contrast, I also feel it is easier & quicker to achieve changes if you have more to work with, as in a fuller face with thicker skin. Don't you agree? BUT, you can get thicker skin simply using the dry brushing technique. I am amazed at what that has done for my facial and body skin alike! I noticed on Deb of Flex Effect's site that she too was once a body builder, yet she was able to create a fuller face using her program. I feel that it's harder (like it was for me) if you are a runner and are thin due to aerobic exercise. As for the most muscle build ~ hmm

m... I suppose if I had to choose one exercise, it would have to be the cheek pump. My cheeks were really starting to flatten out and were lower on my face if you know what I mean! What I truly needed was overall toning & lifting which is what Facercise accomplished for me. But like I said, I have been able to build more muscle mass over the years and continue to see improvements over time. I have a question for you ~ would you say that the raw diet has helped to build muscle more than eating cooked protein? Thanks so much again for all of your insight! Looking forward to your response back! Aprile Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:08 am

Quote:

This is one of the reasons it is great to have a broad repertoire of exercises to choose from - from different sources. I'd be curious to find out more about which of Carol Maggio's are type 3. (I'll assume the nose shortener/thinner is ).

So true about the importance of having a lot of exercises to choose from! Smile

Quote:

And cm5597 question: where do you see Ageless falling in the type 2/3 range?

There's no question in my mind that Loulou designed it to be a type #3 exercise and she even describes how you can increase and decrease the resistance by squeezing the tissue in your grasp more strongly. But there is one caveat in my mind: the one thing I notice is that it seems like you are applying the tension at a right angle to the muscle, that is by squeezing the muscle to prevent it from expanding--or at least this is a significant part of the technique. This is different from the way that bodybuilding exercises are usually designed, as usually the tension is applied at or beyond one of the ends of the muscle in a direction parallel to the muscle fibers. I just referred back to Loulou's book and it isn't 100% clear to me, at least, at what angle you should be applying the force, though it seems like the net effect of pinching the tissue and then contracting the muscle to drag your pinched tissue effectively applies the force as some angle inbetween a right angle and parallel to the muscle fibers, but more at a right angle, since she only instructs you to pinch the muscle, not to used the pinched tissue to pull in a direction opposite to the muscle contraction. I would expect that to make a difference, but I don't pretend to know exactly what that does. For me personally, as I like to experiment, I find that on a per repetition basis, I can apply more resistance and get better contractions from the FlexEffect versions of the same exercise. But I don't know...really, it could be just me not fully getting the Ageless technique and not doing it correctly. I haven't heard anyone else really compare their experience trying both techniques, so I would love to hear others' experiences.

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As for my experience with Carole Maggio's program: I would have to say that when I first started the program, I went overboard. So much so that, I had fatigued the muscles of the face that they never had enough time to recover and build. I was so desperate to see immediate change, that I went overboard, and started to create some bad results. In desperation, I called Carole and asked her what I might be doing wrong for such a thing to happen. She explained that I had overworked the muscles and that proper form and technique while concentrating on the muscles (mind-muscle connection) were more important than the number of reps. Not that I shouldn't perform the exercises 2x a day, but NOT 3, 4 or 5 times a day to speed up my results!!

Lol...I can relate to that desperation! Smile

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I do feel that CM's Facercise program is mainly in the #3 category, with the exception of the # of reps. The reason I say this is that the exercises are both toning and building, thus creating volume and lift.

I guess I was calling several of them more type #2 exercises because they involved a high number of reps and a moderate level of resistance (from what I could tell about how hard Carol was using her hands on the DVD). But it does seem like her exercises for the forehead, eye area, nose, jaw, and neck can be converted into type #3 exercises by increasing the resistance. But her exercises for the cheek area, nasial labial or marionnette lines, and mouth area appear to be type #1 exercises, since you are not applying any resistance with your fingers to oppose muscle contraction. What do you think? (Btw, I forgot to mention: I do love her forehead exercise and do that on occasion, too!)

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However, I truly feel the exercise to address the hollow in the cheek area (face widener) cannot build out that area much without some underlying fat. Simply put because that muscle is fairly flat from what I can see from the diagrams.

Technically, I know you can build flat, sheet-like muscles--e.g., the abs are one that I can think of--though it might be harder. So I'm guessing the question is not whether you can build them, but whether you can build them to a degree that can fill out that area when you are gaunt. I don't have an empirical answer to that question yet, but my face started as concave inwards (yikes! like Madonna's gaunt photos), so filling that out so that the area looks flat is my first goal that I am working on and still making progress towards. It does seem like I will get there, and thereafter, it will be interesting to know how much more build can be achieved. I'm optimistic given what I know we can achieve hypertropy for even small muscles on the body, but I plan to try to be open-minded and empirically-oriented in the process.

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The muscle I refer to is in between the jaw hinge and the corner of the mouth. Don't you think? So, basically when I am heavier than 128-132 at 5'7", that area of my face will be fuller. But, I tend to be on the thin side, so it remains a little bit hollowed. Do you feel you have an exercise to better build that muscle, other than one to build the bucinator muscle? The bucinator is the muscle near the jaw hinge, correct? Isn't there a muscle in between the bucinator and the corner of the mouth?

This cute little diagram here:

w w w . web-books . c o m/eLibrary/Medicine/Physiology/Muscular/head_neck_muscle.j p g
(sorry, I'm technically not allowed to put URLs in messages yet)

shows the buccinator (muscle corresponding to cheek hollows) and the two surrounding muscles: (a) the "jaw" (masseter) and (b) the mouth muscle, the one between the buccinators and lips (orbicularis oris). Does this correspond to the muscles you were referring to??

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Anyway, the overall changes & lift my face has gotten from Facercising, using her facial beauty mitt (dry brushing to exfoliate, detoxify, firm, thicken and lift) and her amazing facial enzymes are truly incredible.

Btw, I have and love Carole's beauty mitt, too! It's great for that deeper exfoliation for when a microfiber cloth doesn't cut it Smile

What results have you gotten with her facial enzymes and how do they compare to other products you've tried?

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I also have to add too that Carole has somewhat changed her techniques over the years, adding resistance to existing exercises and adding newer advanced exercises as well. The resistance she's added in ways such as having you lay down and push your feet against the wall or press your shoulders into the floor, etc. I can't really see any other way to achieve more resistance, can you?

Oh, I just meant that you can push harder against the muscle when it contracts, etc. than she does on the video. That would increase the resistance easily enough! Smile

For others reading this post, it's not better or worse, but how much resistance you want depends on the person and whether and how bad any age-associated volume loss you have is. Many people have serious age-associated volume loss issues and those restoring volume loss in the face is so hot right now, they don't even notice that they have a problem with it. But others naturally have fuller faces, so they it's not an issue for them. For me personally, I just need a lot (a strong #3) for any exercise involving my cheeks!

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Yes, I still see changes in my face as the years pass. I feel my face looks stronger than when I began and yet it still maintains its softness ~ if you know what I mean.

Yes, I totally know what you mean! I'm still working on the angularity and thinness of my face in several areas Smile

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Recently, I began changing the way I perform the nose shortener exercise through a tip on Carole' newsletter, and have narrowed the tip of my nose even more.

He he...Yes, I saw that tip Smile

Though I confess that I have not mastered that new technique yet. Boy, LOVE that exercise!

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I would definitely agree with you that it is more challenging to create volume in a face that's lost volume due to weight loss or just being naturally thinner than your average person. At 5'4" and 112 lbs. ~ you are definitely thinner than your average woman! By contrast, I also feel it is easier & quicker to achieve changes if you have more to work with, as in a fuller face with thicker skin. Don't you agree? BUT, you can get thicker skin simply using the dry brushing technique. I am amazed at what that has done for my facial and body skin alike!

Absolutely! I agree! Dry brushing, massage, etc. are all great at thickening the skin.

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But like I said, I have been able to build more muscle mass over the years and continue to see improvements over time.

Yes, and you have been doing it for much longer than me Smile

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I have a question for you ~ would you say that the raw diet has helped to build muscle more than eating cooked protein?

To be honest, I haven't noticed a difference either way, but I have not been aggressively training my muscles on a raw diet, as I am happy with the volume of my muscles and am in maintenance mode (well, for all muscles except those of my face Smile

)...so the jury is still out on that one. But what it does seem to do is to half my recovery time after strenuous physical workouts and I do notice more endurance. But this came for me only after months of adjusting the diet. And I should add the qualifier, that for me personally, I only get these sort of results on a high greens (1-2 lbs a day), high fruit diet. For me personally, a high fruit raw diet with not so many greens or a moderate to high fat raw diet did not have the same benefits and I would not recommend that to people; you're better off in that case on a healthy cooked food diet with a significant portion of raw foods.

I hope all this helps!! Smile

Hugs

free skin care · Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm

Hi Aprile
I have a question for you - you said you backed off for a month - do you mean you stopped doing any for a month? or if you cut down. what did you cut your routine down to?

waving hello to CM Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:48 pm

IMCathy wrote:

Hi Aprile
I have a question for you - you said you backed off for a month - do you mean you stopped doing any for a month? or if you cut down. what did you cut your routine down to?

waving hello to CM Smile

Oh sorry if I was unclear. By backing off, I meant NOT doing the routine more than the recommended 2x a day. I actually went WAY overboard and did them sometimes 3 or 4 times a day thinking more is better. When in actuality, less was more! Twice a day is fine and will produce results in about a months time. I believe that more could be okay for some, just not for me. Aprile Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:57 pm

Thank you -
I know it is hard not to do more than the recommended.
I caught myself doing some exercises several times a day and at one time wound up with a totally lumpy unattractive look due to uneven build in weird places.
I don't wear makeup so I never enforced the habit of ONLY doing the exericses at set times of the day - but it is proof that all these exercises build muscles in our faces!
uhm...now I make sure I don't over do.

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