Facial Exercise: Share the Process and Results
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Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:29 pm

ClaudiaFE,

I never said I looked like I was 62. In fact, I still look fairly young...all I said was that my mouth and lips are the first places that I've started to notice aging, but I look nowhere as old as Deborah Crawley.

You also wrote that I "have little comprehension of the muscular structure", and that exercise results have "nothing to do with the type of workout". However, you said something very different on a post some time ago.

Here's what you said in 2009: "Now, even those that don't like facial exercises 'cause they don't like the results will tell you that they over developed their lips to that of look like a chimp... He could work his lips to a nice happy medium, and get rid of that look."

What I refer to as a "box" around Deborah's mouth and chin, you refer to as a "chimp" look, and even you have admitted that it is possible to create this look by overdeveloping the lips, which is what I think happened in Deborah's case. And I even think I know which exercises are doing it. All the ones where she is pulling out with her fingers and pulling in with her mouth (there are a lot of these in FlexEffect), especially on the negatives (where the force of the fingers pulling out is so great that they overwhelm the force of the mouth trying to pull in). I think this is kind of like heavy weightlifting for the mouth, which is probably what produces that chimp look if you do enough of that type of exercise.

In any case, I'm not the only one who's noticed that facial exercises done the wrong way can produce a chimp look.

Here's what TheresaMary said in an earlier post about facial exercises in general: "what seems to be most common complaint is the monkey or chimp mouth which seems to be where the muscles build up and become very thick and prominent."

In an old post, sister sweets said, "Some have said the FE gives a Chimpy look"

In any case, different exercise programs and heavier vs. lighter weights do produce different results... For example a heavy weight lifter versus someone who does pilates.

ClaudiaFE, I realise that as a trainer for Flex Effect you will want to defend the product, but please don't try to imply that I don't know what I'm talking about, especially when you have said something similar to what I'm talking about yourself.

free skin care · Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:50 pm

fitnessbunny wrote:

I see what you guys mean, but I have to disagree. I took a snapshot of Deborah from her DVD so you can see my point. You can see the image here: *mypicx.#/uploadimg/331215468_06042011_1.jpg

Arrow 3 shows how Deborah has horizontal lines even though she is hardly raising her eyebrows at all. When she does raise her eyebrows higher, the wrinkles are much more prominent.

Also, see that line on the face (where arrow 1 is pointing) that kind of curves in a funny way as it approaches the mouth? That looks overbuilt. Also notice the area around the chin and mouth area within the oval where arrow #2 is pointing. That area on Deborah's face protrudes in a somewhat unnatural way like a box.

Here's the link to the picture 'fitnessbunny' references above;

http://mypicx.com/uploadimg/331215468_06042011_1.jpg

Thanks for posting what you consider to be Deb at her worst, and from a video at that.. Wow!

I don't know too many women (of any age) who can strike that same pose, and still look so toned, healthy and naturally youthful.

Time to whip out my FE 3 again... Gotta love that incentive!

free skin care · Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:17 pm

Hey there... Thanks for the oppourtunity to make myself more clear...It wouldn't be the first time I've written something as clear as mud...

fitnessbunny wrote:

ClaudiaFE,

I never said I looked like I was 62. In fact, I still look fairly young...all I said was that my mouth and lips are the first places that I've started to notice aging, but I look nowhere as old as Deborah Crawley. Fair enough...My point was that if you look at pics of Deb at your age, she's NOT showing the signs of aging that you describe, at the same or similar age. So, what I would infere is that it's her degree of aggression that has kept her from perhaps looking even older NOW than she would otherwise. And that if she hadn't been aggressive AND been showing the signs of aging you are experiencing she would look even older now.

You also wrote that I "have little comprehension of the muscular structure", and that exercise results have "nothing to do with the type of workout". However, you said something very different on a post some time ago.

Here's what you said in 2009: "Now, even those that don't like facial exercises 'cause they don't like the results will tell you that they over developed their lips to that of look like a chimp... He could work his lips to a nice happy medium, and get rid of that look."

I'll try to be more clear. The results are not because of the TYPE of workout. They are the results of not paying attn. to how you respond to a workout. A person can easily overdevelop a muscle if they have the DNA to do so. But they don't HAVE to. They fail to stop, and slow down because they don't realize when they've hit enough of a good thing. Kind of like how a little injection in the lips might be nice, but a ton extra starts to look freakish. That's something you can control... A monkey mouth does NOT develop overnight. It happens because a person is neglectful of what's actually happening. Or they get overly excited about that first pump, and just keep going.

What I refer to as a "box" around Deborah's mouth and chin, you refer to as a "chimp" look,

This tells me you have not seen the mouth of a person with a chimp look. Their entire obicularis oris is HUGE... all the way up to their nose, and a large perimeter around their mouth. Like a chimp. Deb's mouth is no where near built out like this... if it were, you wouldn't think she was at all thin lipped.

and even you have admitted that it is possible to create this look by overdeveloping the lips, which is what I think happened in Deborah's case. Yes, it's possible to overdevelop. Deb even wrote about it recently on our blog http://www.flexeffectinternational.blogspot.com You however are wrong with your assessment. Perhaps someone has a good pic of chimp mouth they could share... It's really obvious what we're actually talking about when you see it. And I even think I know which exercises are doing it. All the ones where she is pulling out with her fingers and pulling in with her mouth (there are a lot of these in FlexEffect), especially on the negatives (where the force of the fingers pulling out is so great that they overwhelm the force of the mouth trying to pull in). I think this is kind of like heavy weightlifting for the mouth, which is probably what produces that chimp look if you do enough of that type of exercise. Yes, the exercises designed to work the mouth actually do so. This does not mean you should do so with wanton style. However, What you are seeing, when she pulls her mouth tight, is the outline of her quadratus libii inferioris (lower lip curl). Most people won't build this that much, because they haven't been at this for 30 years, or over demonstrating. Deb has had to stop some exercises just because of her teaching schedule

In any case, I'm not the only one who's noticed that facial exercises done the wrong way can produce a chimp look. It's not so much that they are done wrong. It's that they are done in excess.But you are right that many have seen the results of this.When people don't look in the mirror to see what result they are getting they get some funky things happening. Others spot train strange areas thinking they know how that will interact with their whole face...
Here's what TheresaMary said in an earlier post about facial exercises in general: "what seems to be most common complaint is the monkey or chimp mouth which seems to be where the muscles build up and become very thick and prominent."

In an old post, sister sweets said, "Some have said the FE gives a Chimpy look" This is true. FE is the most aggressive in this area. If you just go along and not pay attn. You end up overdoing it. You can do this with your quads, your gluts, and your neck for example with simple body building. Some people just don't know when to say when... common in all walks of life in my experience.

In any case, different exercise programs and heavier vs. lighter weights do produce different results... For example a heavy weight lifter versus someone who does pilates. However you neglect that a LIGHT weight lifter can often get the same build... minus the amazing flexability, and often the core strength. I'm not saying you can't get results with other styles... I'm saying you can tailor something like FE to your personal needs, desires and goals...

ClaudiaFE, I realise that as a trainer for Flex Effect you will want to defend the product, but please don't try to imply that I don't know what I'm talking about, especially when you have said something similar to what I'm talking about yourself.

Well, you're a weeeee mistaken about me... First of all, I'm not JUST a TRAINER for FE... Which tells me you've done VERY little investigation about FE... And I've been at this for 20 years myself. You've just decided that based on Deb's personal appearance it's not a great program. What you'll find is that it is infact so good, it's the foundation of at least 23 other programs on the market today, last time we counted. Carol Maggios would be the foundation for just as many more.

And no, I'm not essentially saying the same thing as you. I am not saying that Deb's cheeks are so over developed they can be compared to 22" biceps, or that her mouth looks like a monkey or a "box". Neither of those are fair or accurate assessments. You don't like her look... that's fair, you know your taste better than anyone. But she's neither masculine in appearance nor deformed as you imply. And neither are those that intelligently follow directions.

free skin care · Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:44 am

I remember a trainer on the FlexEffect forum several years ago said that it was common for the trainers to overwork some face muscles because they needed to demonstrate certain exercises over and over. So the trainers had to avoid certain exercises when doing their own workout. They learned through experience. But the regular face exerciser can just omit or lessen the exercises that cause overbuild for them.
The fact that there is overbuild proves that the Flexeffect program does indeed BUILD muscle.

free skin care · Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:54 am

Just to say here, I’ve had the chimp look and its not from building the lips themselves but the circular muscle that runs around the lips and it pushes out creating a chimp look for sure, but it didn’t do anything for my actual lips themselves which I think is what people are trying to explain to you.

free skin care · Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:44 am

You know, I think Deb looks great for her age, but can understand not everyone would want to look like her, but I’m not convinced that you will turn into her by doing her exercises. I think to some degree your limited by your own facial structure without doubt.

As sister sweets points out, she finds Facercise to be perfect for her lower face. For me it didn’t do anything for my lower face, neither did Ageless. Ageless did build up my cheeks but my lower face needed something more, and I remember reading on one of their blogs that this is the reason they train every muscle, and when you learn which muscles bulk up you simply back off from doing those exercises (and I’m guessing that what the forum is for to get that help and dedication). When I look at the before and afters, none of the faces resemble Debs, but all of them look like they’ve done considerable positive changes.

Fitness its also as CM says that you caught her facial posture in a change in motion. Her face was moving when you did that still shot, but I watched that dvd so darned closely I can tell you when she relaxes, there’s not one line on her head – but her brows move up and down so its not due to botox. Just wish I could get my head looking like that – plus I think she’s got a great head of hair (no thinning as I have on mine ;0( ).

Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:48 am

Deb is a beauty, inside and out. There is a build to her face - my lord the woman has been at this for years. I think it is important as Marie said that Deb has been training others and demonstrating over and over and perhaps that is why some see it as overbuild. Also, her new longer 'do' is something we are not used to seeing with Deb - I'm so used to the short haired Deb in her first video and her new 'do' might be drawing focus to different areas of her face. It is SO refreshing though to see a woman at Deb's age who can MOVE her face and show expression. Love you Deb!!

If you want to see a drop dead gorgeous woman who has done FE for years, then take a look at the skin and structure of Deb's daughter in the new video. Blew me away. Her skin bounces back like a rubber ball - no lines and evidence that facial exercises DO work.

I can't post the link - account is too new, but maybe someone has the link showing Audrey.

free skin care · Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:10 am

Hi Everyone - a while ago a discussion came about on EDS regarding facial exercise with Dr. Shultz, a dermatologist who is very much against facial exercising. Below is a refuting of his youtube video - done by Tonya Zavasta who has her own website "BeautifulonRaw". Tonya does do facial exercise and endorses a raw food diet and is a yoga advocate. She is very lovely and completely natural at age 53.

http://www.beautifulonraw.com/raw-food-blog/facial-exercises/are-facial-exercises-damaging-you-must-know-the-truth/

btw: No offense but Dr. Shultz could use some facial exercising.

free skin care · Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:16 am

More words of Tonya's regarding Dr. Shultz and his views of facial exercising:

Dr. Schultz, MD is a dermatologist specializing in facial rejuvenation and the detection and treatment of skin cancer. In his video, the doctor says: "All elastic fibers, whether they are in your skin or in your clothing, have a finite fixed number of stretches in their life and after which they stop contracting."

In Yogic Tradition, life indeed is measured not in years, months or days, but in the number of breaths. But this "finiteness" never applied to the number of stretches. Quite the opposite!

Here is the text from Tonya's site: IE: rebuttal of Dr. Shultz's video.

In his YouTube video, Effects of Facial Exercises on Your Skin, Dr. Schultz states that instead of benefiting your face, facial exercises will make you lose tone and encourage lines and wrinkles. He cautions that stretching and twisting of the facial muscles will eventually stretch the skin’s elastin to its final limit so that it can no longer snap back, like an old pair of underwear.
Not really a good analogy! There is an unbridgeable difference between the elastin fibers in your face and the elastic band in a pair of old underwear. Your skin, the largest organ of your body is living and constantly regenerating, but an article of clothing can only degenerate.

The doctor asserts that by creasing or folding the skin, you are damaging the collagen, and doing so will simply wear out your skin, like bending and unbending a paper clip until it breaks. However, it is not so much that collagen “breaks down” under the influence of exercise, but that the body produces less collagen with poor diet and the effects of aging. My approach: Boost the body’s capability to produce useful collagen via raw foods.

Dr. Schultz claims that while exercising the body results in improved muscle tone which can firm the skin covering it, the same rule does not apply to the face. And why not? He does not give a satisfying explanation and instead just says it’s because when you move the underlying muscles you are also moving the skin. But of course the same is true for the muscles of your body-you are always moving the skin when you flex a muscle.

We make about 15,000 facial expressions every day. Our skin is nothing like a paperclip, because in our younger years these expressions leave no trace at all. Our skin is a living organ, on the face as well as everywhere else on our bodies. It is capable of remarkable rejuvenation.

Why doesn’t everyone have flawless skin then? The effects of poor diet, pollution, and years of neglect result in the degenerative processes happening faster than the regenerative ones. That is why I insist you add raw foods to your facial exercise routine to tip the scales in your favor!

It is apparent that Dr. Schultz shies away from facial exercises himself. Doctors often display rather more a spirit of rationalism than empiricism—that is, a spirit of “pure reason” where perhaps more practical experience is warranted.

“Damage”…such a dangerous term, and a relative one. Did you know every form of strength-building or muscle-building exercise involves “damage”? Weightlifting (strength-building) “damages” muscle cells. (“No pain, no gain,” as bodybuilders say, even while grimacing.)

Every esthetician knows, and every dermatologist for that matter, that you have to damage the outer skin layer of the skin in order to cause it to regenerate. This is performed by estheticians, cosmetologists and makeup artists and is referred to as “controlled skin damage.” It initiates the natural skin repair and renewal of cells.

Exfoliation is considered mild damage to differentiate it from more aggressive forms such as dermabrasion or chemical peels. These methods coax the skin to produce higher levels of collagen and elastin and encourage a faster renewal process, which usually takes about 28 days, but starts to take longer as we get older.

free skin care · Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:46 am

Wow... and doesn't her skin literaly GLOW!!!!! She is a beauty.

free skin care · Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:16 pm

Yes her skin glows. Did you read her story? It's amazing.
I guess she has a book on facial exercising also - I haven't seen it but she is an advocate - she started facial exercises when she turned 50.

free skin care · Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:26 pm

I have Tonya's book, Sister Sweets. Most of the exercises in it are virtually direct copies from Facercise, FlexEffect, Carolyn's Facial Fitness, etc., and often with the same name. I think she only invented like 3 or 4exercises in the whole book. FWIW, if you have more than a couple of these other exercises programs, it's not worth buying as there's almost nothing original in it, IMO. However, if you do not have any facial exercise program, then it's good book to get you started, as it has about 35 exercises in it. HTH Smile

free skin care · Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:26 am

I would expect that CM - the "overlap" from other programs. I guess there is no 'patent' on facial exercise.

What I like best about Tonya Z is her devotion to health and healthy alternatives. She speaks with such zeal and devotion and her story is an inspiration. I've never bought any of her things but the Seabuckhorn cream and her mask has intrigued me.

I have two Flex Effect, LouLou's program, Carole Maggio's and Facial Yoga as well as dribs and drabs from other places. I'm definitely set. Rolling Eyes

and happy to have them.

free skin care · Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:46 am

Tonya is a definite inspiration with her skin...not just her face but neck,décolleté, arms....etc. I honestly can't go entirely raw or vegan but she does inspire me to hit the smoothies with a gusto! Just love her videos and yes Sis her story is amazing!

free skin care · Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:46 am

I've tried her mask--it's absolutely lovely with a strong lavender smell. I'm not a mask person, though, but if you are, I highly recommend it! Unlikely most clay masks, it's not drying. It's the best mask I've tried Smile

free skin care · Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:44 am

I don't think I could go completely raw or vegan either. I'm sure that has a lot to do with her glow - as well as her disciplined approach to skincare. The mask sounds very nice.

free skin care · Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:16 pm

I've been using several of Tonya's products for awhile. I really love her shampoo, conditioner, scalp tonic, and the bed of needle thing. On my last order, I received the seabuckthorn cream and it's very nice..smells heavenly!

I eat two meals a day that are raw, but I'm not vegetarian or vegan.

I recently started using a small amount of my bio-identical estrogen & natural progesterone creams on my face and my skin is loving this! I'm actually so impressed that I cancelled several auto-ships I had on several Isomer's products. Still using several of their serums & carnosine+, but going to stay with the bio-identicals.

free skin care · Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:45 pm

JenJ wrote:

I've been using several of Tonya's products for awhile. I really love her shampoo, conditioner, scalp tonic, and the bed of needle thing. On my last order, I received the seabuckthorn cream and it's very nice..smells heavenly!

I eat two meals a day that are raw, but I'm not vegetarian or vegan.

I recently started using a small amount of my bio-identical estrogen & natural progesterone creams on my face and my skin is loving this! I'm actually so impressed that I cancelled several auto-ships I had on several Isomer's products. Still using several of their serums & carnosine+, but going to stay with the bio-identicals.

Thanks Jen for your response. Very interesting. Did you get your creams from your naturopath or physician or are they OTC? I think you're best to stick with the more natural options (like Tonya's) for any facial cream product. I don't know Isomer's but are they "clean" products: ie: no parabens and other nasties?

Do you do her facial exercises also? Can you explain the bed of needles? How wide the roller. What does it do for you? do you use it daily? How long are the needles? I really am curious about this. Is there any discomfort at all? Thanks.
~Sis

free skin care · Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:28 am

The bed of needles (pins) is a roller with short pins that is used to stimulate circulation.......it looks like a super wide dermaroller with really short needles. The only area where I can feel it (not painful)is on my forehead because it's bony there. My skin, throat, and neck are where I use it and it leaves a nice flush look that fades within 10 minutes. I usually use this roller every night since takes less than 5 minutes, then use my LED panel. If I have time to use it in the morning, I do.
http://www.beautifulonraw.com/natural-beauty-store/natural-beauty-aids-violet-ray-and-bed-of-pins/

I'm not using Tonya's facial exercises, but am still using Carolyn's Facial Fitness, which I do 4-5 nights a week.

I've been using Isomers for about 5 years and have been really pleased but it's getting a bit out of hand all the products I have, so I am paring down. They do have some products that are paraben-free.

Several months ago, I started a little experiment of just using a tiny amount of my Bi-Est cream and Natural Progesterone cream as my night time treatment and my skin has never looked better . I worked as a makeup artist in my 20s-30s so I've always been very diligent with my skincare. I was thinking last month that most of us in our 20s-30s have pretty flawless skin for the most part and a huge reason for that is due to our optimal hormone levels. So...why not replace what is diminishing? We have hormone receptors all over, including the face & throat.

I've read online that Natural Progesterone USP is one of the best wrinkle eradicators. I don't have wrinkles so I can't speak to that, but I can say that my skin is so hydrated and it stays hydrated. My skin has an even tone, glow and freshness. I really believe it's the combination of the topically applied Natural Progesterone and Estrogen.

I'd love to find out if there are others who are doing this and if they are experiencing the same results.

Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:05 pm

Hi ladies, we've moved the last few helpful posts related to bio-identical hormones over to this thread as suggested:

bio-identical hormones
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6428260#6428260

HTHs! Smile

free skin care · Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:15 pm

Hi Jen - thanks for your response. I have some questions throughout - I hope you won't mind as they cover a range.
I have been wondering about Tonya's dermaroller! It sure is pretty and now I have a better understanding.
Have you ever used other dermarollers? I have several and wonder why this one may be more beneficial although I suspect it's easier to use everyday since there is not as much skin depth penetration and wider means covers more area. (my thoughts only)

Do you have the dpl LED panel? That was my first LED and I have it and have started using it again. It's wonderful for a 9 minute all-in-one. Very effective as I recall.
Thank you for the information - I looked up the Progesterone cream. I am 53 and am keeping bookmarks on products recommended here. I will likely start something OTC and progesterone is looking to be it. I probably should go to a naturopath and get tests done. Draggin my feet.
Do you put it on your face everyday?

SO - to the information of the thread: Jen: If you don't mind: Can you let us know more about why you chose and love Carolyn's program. Having done it for a while we would like to know what benefits you are seeing. Have you considered others? Any favorite exercises? I have several programs and love all of them for many reasons. I always appreciate a different perspectives. I don't have Carolyn's but have looked at her site many times.

Thanks so much for joining in here and helping us all learn.

~sis

JenJ wrote:

The bed of needles (pins) is a roller with short pins that is used to stimulate circulation.......it looks like a super wide dermaroller with really short needles. The only area where I can feel it (not painful)is on my forehead because it's bony there. My skin, throat, and neck are where I use it and it leaves a nice flush look that fades within 10 minutes. I usually use this roller every night since takes less than 5 minutes, then use my LED panel. If I have time to use it in the morning, I do.
http://www.beautifulonraw.com/natural-beauty-store/natural-beauty-aids-violet-ray-and-bed-of-pins/

I'm not using Tonya's facial exercises, but am still using Carolyn's Facial Fitness, which I do 4-5 nights a week.

I've been using Isomers for about 5 years and have been really pleased but it's getting a bit out of hand all the products I have, so I am paring down. They do have some products that are paraben-free.

Several months ago, I started a little experiment of just using a tiny amount of my Bi-Est cream and Natural Progesterone cream as my night time treatment and my skin has never looked better . I worked as a makeup artist in my 20s-30s so I've always been very diligent with my skincare. I was thinking last month that most of us in our 20s-30s have pretty flawless skin for the most part and a huge reason for that is due to our optimal hormone levels. So...why not replace what is diminishing? We have hormone receptors all over, including the face & throat.

I've read online that Natural Progesterone USP is one of the best wrinkle eradicators. I don't have wrinkles so I can't speak to that, but I can say that my skin is so hydrated and it stays hydrated. My skin has an even tone, glow and freshness. I really believe it's the combination of the topically applied Natural Progesterone and Estrogen.

I'd love to find out if there are others who are doing this and if they are experiencing the same results.

free skin care · Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:11 am

Hi Sister,

I have a graveyard of dermarollers (5)...started purchasing when I saw a show with Dr. Phil's wife stating that she used the roller to help her skincare products penetrate. Then I purchased several other rollers with various needle lengths. There was a forum called Lab Muffins (or something like that) and there was a pretty comprehensive thread on dermarollers. I purchased topical numbing cream and went to town....did it a couple of times, but I really didn't see much of a difference and didn't enjoy the process...it hurt even with the numbing cream.

I like Tonya's because it's similar to the dermaroller with the shortest needles but it's wider so it covers the neck/throat/face much faster and it's not meant to break the surface of the skin. I actually get more circulation color with Tonya's roller than I do with the Vaculifter, so for me it's timesaving, yet very effective for increasing the blood flow to the face/neck/throat.

I LOVE my DPL panel! I also have the
AA LightStim but prefer the panel since it's faster and I like that there are more infr-reds for deeper penetration. I first started using it 5-7 days week for 3 months, and now use it 3-4 nights a week.

As far as facial exercise programs, I have began in my early 30s with Cynthia Rowland and used it for about a year, but didn't like having to deal with the gloves and putting my fingers in my mouth. I also have the FE2 & FE3 programs. I prefer CFF, at this point in my life, because for me, it provides a nice build and tone without overbuild...my oval face shape hasn't changed. I also love that the massage aspect is built into the moves. Since I've been proactive before I started having an issue, I don't have any sagging or soft jawline. During allergy season, I can get a bit puffy and the eye exercises do help alleviate that. I find that the eye exercises with most of the programs are very similar.

Natural Progesterone (make sure it as USP on the label) is the best place for you to start. It will help balance estrogen as many of us (including men) have too much estrogen. NP is the "feel good" hormone. I apply mine at night since its calming and relaxing.

free skin care · Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:09 am

Oh, to answer your question if I apply the bio-identical hormones (USP Natural Progesterone & estrogen) to my face/throat everyday, I apply 5 days a week, but thinking of doing it daily since there are facial moisturizers on the market with tiny amount of these hormones in them (New Face Solution has Estriol & DHEA, and Natural Radiance has a facial cream with Estriol & Nat. Progesterone) that can be used daily. I didn't know what to expect when I started my experiment 3 months ago, so now I'm completely sold and very pleased....it just made alot of sense to me.

I have a 30 year-old friend who is pregnant. She doesn't normally have great skin, but she does now and pregnant women have very high levels of progesterone.

free skin care · Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:01 pm

Thanks Jen for all of your helpful information. How long have you been doing facial exercises? By the way it reads you use only Carolyn's and don't pick and choose from other programs? I am so the opposite! There are some exercises from every program that are favorites plus I tend to alternate programs as the core! My favorite right now is Rose Tran's Facial Yoga - I can FEEL IT! and that hasn't happened in a while.
I try to hit all facial areas. Most of the programs have very similar eye exercises as you say - I've noticed each seems to have their specific claim to fame.

Loving that Rolling bed of pins - I keep looking at it. Laughing

free skin care · Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:01 pm

I ordered some stuff from Natural Radience. Thanks Jen.

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