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Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:26 am  |
I have been following the Sircuit Skincare thread, and have been researching the ingredients that they claim to use in their products. Luckily I have a good friend who is a bio-chemist for MERCK, and has done formulating for both Estee Lauder and Shiseido.
1. He said that chirality could be an issue, that that technology does exist, but that he doesn't see how it could be properly metabolized if used externally. Also, most "chirally correct" vitamins/nutrients are bio-engineered and are not natural. They are synthetic. So although they may attach more readily to skin cells, they may not be metabolized as fully as naturally sourced vitamins/minerals.
2. They also say that they use fullerenes (nanotubes) as a delivery system for ingredients because "Liposomes are so last year". Well, nanotubes and "buckyballs" (fullerenes) as they are called in the research arena hypothetically may hold and deliver nutrients deeper into the cell structure of the skin, but the technology to entrap matter inside the carbon cage and keep it there has evaded scientists from research departments at MERCK, Du Pont, Xerox, and IBM. (which makes me a little bit skeptical that a West Coast cosmetic company has perfected this technology).
If you want to read more about fullerenes, here is a link that explains the concept in layman's terms:
http://www.mindspring.com/~kimall/Fuller/
3. They say they use heavy water in their products because it is 10% heavier than regular water, which is true, but after researching it, I don't know that I would want to put it on my face.
The only real use that it fulfills currently is cooling radioactive fuel rods in nuclear power plants and as a tracer application to measure the total water of a substance in labwork.
I won't go into the whole explaination of how it differs from regular water chemically, and how it is thought by some researchers to cause cell mutation and might be the actual cause of aging, but if you want to read about it, I found an abstract that deals with Deuterium Oxide (D2O) and aging. Here is the link:
http://www.sumeria.net/health/heavywtr.html
I'm not saying that this is a bad skincare line - I've never tried it. And it might make your skin feel great. All I'm saying is that from my research (maybe 10 or 15 hours so far) and from what I was told by a bio-chemist who has worked in the industry, the technology that they are applying to their line is theoretical and currently there is no research that supports that the skin can fully absorb these ingredients, let alone benefit from them to any great extent.
If anybody has any ideas/research that supports or challenges what I have found, please let me know! I am just trying to sort through all of the high-tech nanobabble to find out if this skin care is really what it says, or just a very savvy marketing ploy. I would be thrilled if this all were true, but I want to research it more before I jump on this wagon. Any ideas?
-Padme |
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:52 am |
Hello,
I have been corresponding with a leading Montreal bio-chemist who has a column in one of our newspapers and who is a professor at our best University in Canada.
His goal, as he calls it, is to take the scientific jargon used by companies trying to sell cosmetics/vitamins/herbs etc. and to translate it into standard scientific "talk." I remember when "sodium laureth sulfate" was all the talk on the internet his voice was the scientific voice of reason. He has also debunked many ludicrous health food claims by putting it into scientific perspective (and I am a big believer in vitamins.) He is not against any product but he is against what he calls the scientific "gobbeldy gook" used by promoters of their products. The science they use does not usually make any sense. This is what he says.
He has said much the same as you have. He has debunked their "scientific claims." He is not against any of their prouducts only the so called scientific claims they use to sell their products.
For anyone who has used this skin care line and likes then I say "good" keep on using it.
No one is against the products only the way they are promoted, using psudo-science.
I can't say any more than that since I am not a "scientific" person. Perhaps this skin care line truly is wonderful. I don't know. For anyone who use these products and loves them please tell us about your expereiences. |
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 11:54 am |
| I found the descriptions of the products weird actually. I thought they used a lot of fancy jargon and hype. But as I trust Liz implicitly when it comes to advice on good skin care products I thought I would try the stuff. I can only say personally if you ignore the smells which some people might like, it seems like nice stuff so far. |
_________________
50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:15 pm |
And here I was thinking that I was buying some new age stuff  . I'm hoping this isn't all hype as it is pretty expensive stuff. Only time will tell if this is "the" skin care line for me, so far so good. |
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Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:51 pm |
| loopylori wrote: |
| ... But as I trust Liz implicitly when it comes to advice on good skin care products I thought I would try the stuff... |
you are under my command!...buy anything I tell you...I am your god... you will do as I say...
Oh $hit! errrrm Hi!  sorry, no brainwashing here! (...goes off whisteling) |
_________________
my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:31 am |
Thank you, pbsadhaka! This is exactly what my husband told me when I showed him the sircuitskincare-link. Unfortunatly I haven't been able to explain it as good as you:)
Anyway, want some info on heavywater? There are to types of heavywater, one is VERY radioactive, while the oter one, D2O, is not readioactive...at least not so much is causes any danger. It is the D2O which is used as a cooling fluid in powerplants, and was, by the way, an essential ingredient in developing atom bombs..  . There is heavywater in ALL water...
And as I read the list of ingredient on the molecular mist the D2O came way down, so I don't think there is much heavywater in this product. 
But as with all other skincare this may work great for some and bad for others. Just be aware that these productsd are very hyped... |
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:58 am |
Well, I have been wanting to jump in here for awhile now, but I have been a bit chicken to get into the fray...
I am a engineer by day (skincare/cosmetic addict by night...if my collegues only knew) I too fell under the spell and bought three samples. There wasn't anything particularly wrong with the products, but there isn't anything particularly great about them either. I got the cleanser, scrub and x-zit.
But there were other things that really started to bother me the more I read posts and thought about it.
1. There was a hair in one of my samples. Really gross. Micheal took care of it really quickly and sent me out more samples, but how many times has some like that happened? I have bought thousands of skincare/cosmetics and never had this happen.
2. Micheal is the only person anyone ever talks to, whether they call or email. I suspect that he may be the only one working there or one of the very few.
3. When I got my products, the brochure that came with them looked liked that had beed printed off of a home printer. I was nicely printed, but it was just a stack of 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of papers stapled together in the corner.
All of this isn't anything in particular, it just makes me a little leary.
4. the ingrediants are nothing special. I wish that I hadn't thrown away the brochure because the ingrediants on the website is not complete. There is a complete listing of the ingrediants with the products and you see that the main ing. for prods. like x-zit and the spray are witch hazel. Makes you not want to pay such rediculous amounts for it.
5. I don't like the fact the they feature their moisturizers "natural sun protection", but don't actually give you an spf number. Sunscreens are regulated by the FDA (in the US) and must undergo testing before they can be called such and to determine their SPF factor. By them saying that it has natural sun protection, they legally get around calling it a sunscreen, but still suggest that you can use it to prevent sun damage. Which may be true, but I would prefer that the company paid for the outside verification before they advertised it.
In the end, I think that there may be nothing wrong with this line. I just think that it is too high priced for its ingrediants. There is just something that is a little off that will make me stay away.
Sorry for the long post,
Liz |
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:58 pm |
hi guys
ok, anyone who knows me knows im a sircuit fan. so i was quite perturbed by some of the posts claiming that they may be hype. I also thought that theres no way i could refute any of these bicochemical accusations, not having a biochemical background. So what did i do? I cut and pasted the initial post to the president of the company to see what he had to say. And here it is:
Regarding over “hyping” the line?? We totally agree that many skin care companies over hype their claims, and consumers need to be critical. However, we take a pretty straight up position, and tried to make it a little fun, with the tag lines and copy.
Regarding Chiral Technology:
The skin is the largest organ of the body and it reacts to what is put on it. If the ingredients are chirally pure then there is less chance of an adverse reaction. Example: limonene. It is a component of many natural botanicals that are used in skin care. With the natural ingredient you will get the twin molecules. Limonene has twin molecules — D-limonene which is extremely strong and is used in tire recycling and many industrial strength cleansers and natural insecticides and L-limonene which is very mild and contains all the good things for the skin. It is anti-viral, anti-bacterial, etc. Now which would you like to have in your skin care product? D-limonene or L-limonene? If the ingredients are not Chirally correct you’ll get both the d and the L. By Chirally correcting the ingredient you’ll be able to use the most beneficial molecule to suit the need. If you’re manufacturing industrial cleansers, then by all means use the D molecule but if you’re formulating a gentle skin care product then you’ll use the L.
Chiral ingredients can be synthesized but are often obtained from natural sources (such as limonene) and are often natural. To name just a few: L-ascorbic acid, D-alpha Tocopherol (the DL alpha Tocopherol is synthetic), L-lactic acid is the natural form of lactic. Also, since chiral ingredients link up so perfectly with the receptors in the cells they are metabolized better and faster. This is also why whenever chiral ingredients are used, a lower dosage is needed to obtain the desired results.
Regarding Fullerenes:
“ They also say that they use fullerenes (nanotubes) as a delivery system for ingredients because "Liposomes are so last year". Well, nanotubes and "buckyballs" (fullerenes) as they are called in the research arena hypothetically may hold and deliver nutrients deeper into the cell structure of the skin, but the technology to entrap matter inside the carbon cage and keep it there has evaded scientists from research departments at MERCK, Du Pont, Xerox, and IBM. (which makes me a little bit skeptical that a West Coast cosmetic company has perfected this technology). “
There is another purpose for fullerenes. It is nutrient carbon and is the only type of carbon the body is able to utilize. This type of carbon is as biologically active as it is pure. Fullerenes also are optically active. However, if anyone is interested there are at least 18 scientific sources which we posted today on the site as a reference on all the studies that have been done on Fullerenes, such as, its Biological Uptake in Human Keratinocytes and Pro-Cellular Growth and Attachment, and Free Radical Scavenging Effect of Fullerenes, and its Enhancing Immunity Effects, etc. We have not perfected any technology — we purchase the raw ingredients.
Regarding Heavy Water:
“ They say they use heavy water in their products because it is 10% heavier than regular water, which is true, but after researching it, I don't know that I would want to put it on my face. The only real use that it fulfills currently is cooling radioactive fuel rods in nuclear power plants and as a tracer application to measure the total water of a substance in labwork.”
Heavy water has also been used internally to slow down our biological clock. The site now has a list of all the scientific research that has been done (on the body and in the body) with heavy water — and all of it is benefits. Irradiated skin cells have been revived after being soaked in heavy water. Heavy water has also shown to destroy certain acne bacteria, etc.
I would use it on my skin even if it didn’t have all the benefits it does, simply because it is the perfect hydrator. It evaporates more slowly than regular water and therefore keeps skin hydrated longer.
“I won't go into the whole explanation of how it differs from regular water chemically, and how it is thought by some researchers to cause cell mutation and might be the actual cause of aging, but if you want to read about it, I found an abstract that deals with Deuterium Oxide (D2O) and aging.”
Actually it has been shown to re-condition the cell surface, Accelerate and enhance regeneration of tissue, it thwarts the tendency of cross linking of collagen fibrils (thus keeping skin more supple), it normalizes blood pressure, facilitates the body’s production of alanine, an important component of blood plasma, improves pH of the liver, protects against radiation damage, reduces cellular stress-- all these references and more are now on the site under the why it works page. All this research shows it slows aging. It is the oldest water on the planet, thought to be the original water, -- the water in which life first began.
“I'm not saying that this is a bad skincare line - I've never tried it. And it might make your skin feel great. All I'm saying is that from my research (maybe 10 or 15 hours so far) and from what I was told by a bio-chemist who has worked in the industry, the technology that they are applying to their line is theoretical and currently there is no research that supports that the skin can fully absorb these ingredients, let alone benefit from them to any great extent.”
Since we are selling skin care, we cannot make drug claims. If we use the research that has been done by others, then we are accused of theoretical assumptions, but if we do our own research, which is way too expensive for us to do even if we wanted to, then the products could then be considered drugs --- because we would be proving that they effect a change in the skin. So in a sense this is true as far as making a leap of faith --- however, that leap is based on solid science.
“If anybody has any ideas/research that supports or challenges what I have found, please let me know! I am just trying to sort through all of the high-tech nanobabble to find out if this skin care is really what it says, or just a very savvy marketing ploy. I would be thrilled if this all were true, but I want to research it more before I jump on this wagon. Any ideas?"
Another argument to use is that this technology and ingredients, and chirality is readily accepted by physicians.
Regarding Prices:
Using X-Trap as an example: $36.00 for 4oz. size aprox enough for a 6 week period of use, depending on your slathering technique.
Assuming an average cleanser is $24.00 for the same size.
The “you get what you pay for” rule applies here.
We formulate pure product period. High concentrations, that’s why it seems so rich and thick, and by the way….more effective. A higher dosage of pure ingredients with less water also reduce bacteria probably, and add to the half life of the formula involved.
We could easily add more water and a couple of fillers and break this bottle up into 3 or 4 “4oz” products like the others we are referred to.
Assuming we do this with just 3 or even 2, we would make more $$
($24 x 3 = $72.00 or $24 x 2 = $48.00).
We also suggest that new customers start with the trial set and see for themselves what Chiral Technology can do for there skin. If the products don’t work for them nothing else matters.
Bottom line, the “stuff works”. |
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Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:42 pm |
farouk: first, let me tell you that I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers here, I know you are a big sircuit fan. But I was just presenting a different point of view and raising some questions, that's all. BTW, where did you first hear about this line anyway?
abejita:it's funny that you should feel like there's just something about this company that "bothers" you. Because I get the same feeling. I was immediately turned off when I found out that you had to not only buy the samples, but then pay $8.50 for shipping to boot! I was thinking of trying the X-Trap cleanser, but they wanted me to not only pay $4.50 for a SAMPLE, but then pay double that to ship something light enough to mail with one stamp.
Please understand that I'm not just trying to get freebies here. But I could probably buy a BMW with what I've spent on skincare throughout my life, and I have NEVER been charged for a sample. I just feel like if their product is that good, they should be happy for you to try before you buy.
I don't know. Like I said, it might be a great line, but I think I'll stick with a more simple, natural approach to skincare. Something maybe that doesn't involve cold fusion to make an eye cream!  |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:39 am |
Hey Farouk! Are you using the royal "we" in your post or are you just quoting the stuff from SS?
Pbsadhaka... It was wot told 'im! Bloody fuss this skincare line has caused, I wish that I had just stuck with the JI heavy water |
_________________
my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:36 am |
ehm...I just read Farouks post, and I'm now even more convinced that this line is overhyped... As far as I could see there is nothing that proves that this line works, and I they don't even do research?? I'm so not impressed.....
"Since we are selling skin care, we cannot make drug claims. If we use the research that has been done by others, then we are accused of theoretical assumptions, but if we do our own research, which is way too expensive for us to do even if we wanted to, then the products could then be considered drugs --- because we would be proving that they effect a change in the skin. So in a sense this is true as far as making a leap of faith --- however, that leap is based on solid science. " |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:58 am |
Farouk & Guapagirl have certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this stuff.
Whilst I find it admirable that you guys are going to all this effort to sort the scientific from the hype out does it really matter.(I'm ducking now). If people are willing to try it and like the result then they have lost nothing. If they don't like results they will not buy it again. No amount of hype will make people re-order if something is no good.
Please don't shout at me or get cross I am just saying it as I see it. No offence meant to anyone.  |
_________________
50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:32 am |
| loopylori wrote: |
Farouk & Guapagirl have certainly stirred up a hornets nest with this stuff.
Whilst I find it admirable that you guys are going to all this effort to sort the scientific from the hype out does it really matter.(I'm ducking now). If people are willing to try it and like the result then they have lost nothing. If they don't like results they will not buy it again. No amount of hype will make people re-order if something is no good.
Please don't shout at me or get cross I am just saying it as I see it. No offence meant to anyone. |
I crown you....Queen of COMMON SENSE! |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:03 pm |
farouk,
I think it's great that you love the products you are using and I am sure that many more will feel the same way.
When I first came to this forum I was very excited about the line I use. We learn as we go along that everyone has personal preferences.
Probably most products at one time or another get bad reviews or people question them. What really counts is HOW YOU LIKE THE PRODUCT. Enjoy farouk!
Winnie |
_________________
As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something  |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:30 pm |
I'm another "happy camper" just like farouk  . Until I find something better that I like, Sircuit is what I'll be using. I might try some of that Body Deli stuff , because it's something I haven't tried. So many products, so little time . |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:24 pm |
Hi
Just to say I really appreciated pbsadhaka taking the time to do some research and posting it up. It's just the kind of reason that I look online - to get some expert knowledge or inside information. I couldn't possibly analyse these things myself. I just don't have that kind of background.
Of course in the end it's just another opinion alongside the user, but please don't be put off posting again in case of offending people. I really like to read the full range of views and experience.
Molly |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:13 pm |
Hi. I think I am one of the very few people who really TRIED the products. I have been using their products (and nothing else oh except the Valmont elixer eye cream) for a little more than one week now. On the third day, I ordered the full size of some of the basic products. Their products are quite expensive I have to say. After reading so many comments about whether this line is a hype, that someone found hair in samples, etc., I have been quite worried whether I have done it wrong ordering the full size stuff which cost me over US$300.
I myself was quite skeptical to this line (and even now in fact). I read their guestbook, every single thread, and I couldn't find even one thread saying something negative about this line. I do have doubts. I don't want to go into technical, scientific talk as I honestly don't understand this well. I agree with loppylori that if someone is willing to try the like the products, then they have lost nothing. It's that simple. I have been trying this line for about 10 days (of course it's still not long enough to make a good judgement) and I can really see results. If people remember I said in another post that my skin was quite upset lately and have acne around my chin like consistently (though not very serious). After using the Sircuit products, I really see that my skin is more balanced. My consistent acnes have stopped like immediately and I only have one or two small ones at present. My skin looks and feels smooth, pores refined. Well it's not plastic surgery and I can't say there is any miraculous change but so far I really adore the products and will keep using them. This is not easy for me as I like trying skincare products SO MUCH that I rarely can stay with one line for more than 3 months and Magda probably know how much I have paid EDS in the past few years.
Anyway I think it is still a little to early for me to make any final judgement about this line to make it convincing. I will therefore keep on using the products and let you all know how it goes at a later stage. |
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Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:59 pm |
I just want to clarify one thing and that is that most of us that are sceptical of this line, do not say anything about the products themselves. The products may work fine, that is not the point!
The point is that sircuit uses a lot of sientific research to back up their products. The problem with that is that the research they use have nothing to do with skincare. They even admit (in one of farouks post), that they do not do their own research! They only assume that their products should work using these theories...
In my opinion I am very sceptical to a company that uses complicated scientific research, which most people would not understand, in their advertising. When this research is not even related to skincare, nor done by themselves, it is even more disturbing.
And now I think I've said all I wanted..  |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:01 pm |
After all the praise on these products from some of the posts, I ordered samples of the protective day moisturizer, night time skin repair, vitamin c serum, omg serum, and secret sauce. I really wanted these to be as good as people said they were and I was disappointed. The only one that I might buy another sample size of would be the omg serum which I put on areas that turned dark from an vitamin A product that burned. I didn't see any results until I put the Isa Knox whitening essence on top of it.
The service and shipping were great. Being in California, I received my products the next day. Will probably just give away the rest of the samples and hope they work better for my friends than they did for me. Congrats to those who got results though. |
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Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:35 pm |
NOW i remember where this line comes from!
it's a line targeted to gay men, i think circuit means like the gay underground club scene and this line was a play on words.
i remember reading about this on the internet when they were talking about metrosexuals and stuff |
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Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:45 pm |
Edenfield,
You are right! If you go to google & do a search for "sircuit skin" you get links to all these gay websites that sell it. Soooo funny! Maybe it is good then...all my gay friends are ages ahead of everybody else when it comes to fashion & makeup! |
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