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bio-identical hormones
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Antonia
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Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:51 pm      Reply with quote
OK, I just have to chime in here. I do not believe the term "Bio-Identical Hormones" is a marketing term. It is a term that distinguishes lab-synthesized hormones like the appallingly "cruel" Premarin from those more closely aligned with hormones produced by the human body. I agree though that they may not be truly identical.

I have never had a hot flash, a night sweat or any other symptom of menopause. I am 5 years post-meno and I use BHRT for its anti-aging benefits.

After studying a number of texts, papers, peer-reviewed studies and what-not, and having my hormone levels measured by Z-Labs, I determined that the appropriate treatment for me would be progesterone and estriol. (My mother passed from BC.) Estriol has been shown in some studies to be chemo-preventive. Interestingly, the last test I had showed that there was a very high amount of circulating estradiol in my system, which the lab suggested was due to the fact my estrogen receptors had been blocked by the estriol. (estradiol or E1, is the form of estrogen believed responsible for the development of some breast cancers. It is 1000 times stronger that estriol or E3.)

My doctor concurred that this regimen would be entirely appropriate. She is in full support of BHRT and recommends it for her female patients.

Hormones keep us young. Not just the sex hormones, but those produced by the adrenals, pituitary and thyroid, etc. I truly feel that I am benefiting greatly from their use.

Oh yes, to answer Arym's questions there...I have been on BHRT for 12 years. I use estriol cream on my arm in the a.m. and progesterone cream in the p.m. Estradiol makes my hair fall out as it converts to testosterone in my body and then to DHT. I discovered this when using Tri-est. Most doctors will tell you that "estrogen helps keep your hair growing healthily" after meno but it depends on what estrogen. I have posted elsewhere about this. A lot of women on E1 patches are wondering why their hair is falling out.

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Antonia
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Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:24 pm      Reply with quote
I just want to add that I have found the book A Woman's Guide to Natural Hormones to be pretty good. It is by Christine Conrad. I also read another very informative book called Natural Woman, Natural Menopause by this author and Marcus Laux, ND. Suzanne S. has written some incredibly informative material (and been knocked on the head as she is not a doctor), however, she has taken the time to do a phenomenal amount of research and offers a good personal perspective as well.

This is taken from the LEF site: There is also direct evidence from animal studies and indirect evidence from human studies that estriol can prevent breast cancer. Much of this work has been done by Dr. H. M. Lemon and associates of the Department of Internal Medicine at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

In one study, they induced mammary tumors by wholebody gamma radiation in female Sprague-Dawley rats. Subcutaneous treatment with estriol for 331-to-449 days reduced the incidence of mammary tumors from 75% in controls to 48% in the animals receiving estriol.

In another study by Lemon et al., estriol was shown to have "the most significant anti-mammary carcinogenic activity of 22 tested compounds (because)...estriol is less likely to induce proliferative changes in the target organs of cancer-prone women than estrone or estradiol."

I have a few refs for this...

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Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:06 pm      Reply with quote
When the studies on the relationship between taking HRT and breast cancer were made known in Australia, many women became extremely concerned and went rushing off to their doctors in a panic. However, the opinion of most doctors is that the risk does not out-weigh the benefits. This is the opinion of the Menopause Centre of Australia:

In regard to your question regarding HRT and the risk of increased breast cancer, the Women's Health Initiative study revealed that HRT can increase the risk of breast cancer. Please note, that women are still at risk of getting breast cancer without taking any form of HRT. Statistically the figures revealed that out of 1,000 women, 77 women who had not taken HRT will get breast cancer by the age of 75. For women who have taken HRT for longer than 5 years this risk increased to 79 women out of 1,000.

At the Australian Menopause Centre we offer women a more natural approach through the use of natural Bio-identical plant derived hormones. As there has been no long-term study conducted on this therapy we cannot claim it to be safer.

If you would like to research this further I highly recommend borrowing from your local library Dr Northrup's book, "The Wisdom of Menopause". On page 467 she discusses the effects of HRT on breast health and devotes an entire chapter on how to prevent your risk of developing breast cancer. In relation to the risk of natural bio-identical hormones and the risk of breast cancer she states "There is good reason to believe that the long term use of bio-identical low dose estrogen, balanced with bio-identical progesterone, would result in a very limited increase in breast cancer risk, if any". In addition she goes on to further explain and gives reference to studies as to why she considers Natural hormone support to be the superior option.


http://www.menopausecentre.com.au/online/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=36

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Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:15 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry to keep posting here but I would personally never use one of the osteo drugs. The possible side effects are not worth it. (I'm referring to the bisphosphonates and not SERMS here.) Remember that the authorities assured us that Vioxx and other COX-2 inhibitors and Baycol were safe. I'm not suggesting all Rx drugs are the enemy, far from it, but I developed osteopenia and I am not taking anything for it. Instead I'm working out, and making sure my diet contains adequate magnesium, Vit D, boron and calcium hydroxyapatite. Friends of mine on bisphosphonates have experienced upper GI tract problems and severe bone pain. A friend of a friend developed necrosis in the bone tissue in her upper jaw. That said, I am sure many women don't experience negative side effects but I'd rather take my risks with BHRT than osteo drugs. (Opinionated little so-and-so that I am... Bad Grin

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Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:44 pm      Reply with quote
Bravo Antonia - that is why I won't take the osteo type drugs either. I'm in dentistry and we have seen the results of those drugs radiographically. Necrosis of the jaw is not pretty and quite sad. Not worth it.

I do the same thing for my osteopenia and am quite content with just that. Being smaller in frame - it's just something we have to do.

I don't take anything yet for menopause but I'm very close to doing so - or at least that step. I've done research also on bio-identical hormones and decided a few years back with the help of my then surgeon boy-friend that that was the way to go. And the time is getting close.

My reasons are also anti-aging and I feel the benefits appear to outweigh any negatives and I have no family history that indicates this is a bad decision.

I'm honestly wary of western-only trained physicians as they sometimes are negative about therapies outside of the standard Rx or outside their own expertise. I'm not into witch doctors but I think the standard of care can be achieved in more ways than one.

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Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:49 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:


I'm honestly wary of western-only trained physicians as they sometimes are negative about therapies outside of the standard Rx or outside their own expertise. I'm not into witch doctors but I think the standard of care can be achieved in more ways than one.


Yes. Ten years ago, my doc would slam anything that wasn't conventional. It was the source of many arguments between us. She once said that nature wanted to do away with women after they had served their purpose as childbearers and that is why we should take HRT to prevent this. (A direct quote from the Wyeth rep. here in Canada.) Boy, has she changed! Now she recommends BHRT and is on it herself. Last time I was in there, chatting about Lumigan, she said, "I have learned a lot from my patients in the past ten years." I truly applaud her for that. Most GPs are so pressured for time that they don't keep up with what's happening out there and listen to/read only the biased warblings of various medical associations. I say biased because the drug companies are sponsoring absolutely everything in sight. (While they aren't allowed to sponsor trips to Hawaii any more, they make their presence known heavily at every convention and bash. I know because I get invited to many of them.) It bothers me so much because my father-in-law developed rhabdomyolysis after a couple of years on Baycol. He died shortly afterwards Sad He was old school and wouldn't get a second opinion when we begged him to because we suspected the Baycol was causing the problems. To him, his doctor was God. We spoke to the doc and he said he had "full confidence in the manufacturer." Ugh! I still feel angry about this. Anyway, that's a little off topic but I truly believe that, as intelligent women, we must do our own research and make our own decisions. Of course, we may utilise the expertise of our doctors from time to time but still do our due diligence and not act with blind faith when it comes to taking medications prescribed for us. Here endeth the lesson. Very Happy

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:59 am      Reply with quote
Antonia - Amen Sister...

I teach a nutrition class and throughout the semester we discuss alternative therapies and some of the very issues you bring up. Education is key to being a wise consumer. Especially in the health arena it is important to know your own body and be aware of options as well as being your own advocate or someone elses.
The "doctor is God thing" drives me insane.... more prevalent in the retired generation I have found. Physician's are only people (very educated in what they know but like anyone they have to be lifelong learners to keep up and some sadly do not get out of the box) Many have zero training in Nutrition, etc yet so many patients seek their advice on this sort of thing.

As I mentioned previous my ex-boyfriend is an oncological and general surgeon (well-respected, excellent care and good with his hands) Even he has broadened his horizons significantly from his medical school training - though we had some pretty lively discussions back in the day. (about treating breast cancer, cholesterol, bio-identical hormones etc). and he is now treating his own high cholesterol in what his training would consider avante guard ways - he got out of his box and avoided the statin drugs. And he found me a doc for the Bio-identical hormone therapy.

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:14 am      Reply with quote
This is such a great thread, and I’ve been following it with much interest. The opposing opinions here are expressed so succinctly, with studies to back them up. From my own reading, I decided that all I can do is make an educated choice as to the path I want to take.

I'm perimenopausal, and my symptoms started two years ago, and are severe enough for me to be at risk of losing my job: depression, extreme fatigue, foggy thinking and forgetfulness, trouble sleeping, trouble waking in the morning, low libido, constant body aches and frequent headaches, night sweats and hot flashes, and unexplained rashes. Needless to say, my quality of life has been $hitty lately.

I started reading books by Suzanne Somers, Dr. Christiane Northrup, and Dr. John Lee. I realized that a “traditional” dr in my insurance network just wasn’t going to be able to help me. Believe me, I tried with two different PCPs!

I chose to go outside of my insurance network to consult with a BHRT dr, and I have to say paying out of pocket has been worth every penny! Her first career was practicing as a traditional “in-network” gynecologist. I think she does a terrific job of blending traditional medicine with the holistic approach. A few things she did that no other dr has done:

1. Checked my vit D level, and found it be extremely low. She put me on prescription vit D for a month, and I definitely had more energy!

2. Although thyroid panel came back normal (and yes, she did ALL of them, unlike my first PCP), she palpitated my neck, and sent me to get an ultrasound. I'll have that done next week.

3. Checked my testosterone level and found it to be non-existent, and gave me the OPTION to start using a compounded cream to raise it. This has also done wonders that I won't get into. Rolling Eyes Embarassed

4. Checked my DHEA level, found it to be on the low side, and advised me to take a very low dose of DHEA.

5. Prescribed progesterone in the form of Prometrium. This just goes to show you that BHRT does not always mean "natural", nor does it always require compounding. As Josee pointed out, “natural” doesn’t always mean safe or better for you.

6. Recommended high-quality fish oil and red yeast rice supplements for elevated cholesterol.

7. Did NOT jump to putting me on estrogen. She wants to evaluate the results of the above first.

I’ll go back in a few weeks for follow-up, so I welcome your input to this approach. I’ll gladly take your challenges/concerns to her. As an example, bethany has already educated me on DHEA, so I will be asking why I am not on the 7-keto version.

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:01 am      Reply with quote
I've asked this in the past with no success, but was wondering whether anyone here has a history of DVT and is coping with the menopause? I haven't started yet (but am 43 now), and would love to take something like bio-identical hormones, and wonder if it carries the same risk factors with regard to thrombosis as normal HRT?
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Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:09 am      Reply with quote
I will see what I can find on DVT. I would imagine that the risk is less but still there. However, that's just a guess. Here's a very good article by a board certified Ozzie anti-aging doc insupport of BHRT:

http://www.antiagingdoctor.co.za/?page_id=7

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:31 pm      Reply with quote
I'm an RN, wellness coach, and I do research for film producers/writers etc. (mostly medical oriented & I def know how to read and interpret the literature). Anytime I hear the FDA as a source of validation I want to laugh. HRT and menopause is a hot topic (pun yeah it works) and in medicine is it takes an OVERWHELMING amount of proof to dispel myths & misinformation. Medicine wants to take a one size fits all approach to menopause and give every woman the same pill and that's simply not going to work. They also want to go by antiquated lab tests that will tell a woman her hormone levels are fine and normal when she's overwhelmed with depression (take an antidepressant!) with uncomfortable symptoms like hot flashes.

Christine Northrup is one of the most well informed doctors about menopause and female health and women should consult her books along with sites like Women to Women. I couldn't begin to write a post with recommendations because everyone is 100% different. I will say that I've used Bi-Est and progesterone for about six years (vaginally) and I don't have any symptoms. The only symptom I ever DID have was vaginal dryness, but I don't want to dry up like a prune on the outside either.

It makes me laugh hysterically when I hear doctors put Suzanne Somers down, she LOOKS FABULOUS come on! And according to her she feels fabulous too.

I've been a participant of the Harvard nurses study that has been studying woman's health for 20 years, I do have to say that filling in their questionnaires over the years has given me even more insight on health, mine and others. For example I've checked "No I never eat" on page after page of questions about food (all processed). Over the last couple of years they've started including more questions about habits related to eating REAL WHOLE FOOD which is what my diet consists of. The reason I mention that here is to illustrate how terribly skewed most literature is, there is simply no control groups in studies consisting of women who are actually eating real food, exercising, not drinking coffee & alcohol, not eating sugar etc. (like that terrible Suzanne Somers lady).

I would suggest that people see a female GYN whose specializes in bio-identical compounded hormones. Whether or not you agree with the definition the compounded hormones are formulated to more closely match what you're lacking and to relieve your specific symptoms. All of this is just my opinion.
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Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:20 pm      Reply with quote
Secretly, thank you so, so much for this insightful posting. I think Ms Somers has done a fantastic job of apprising women of their options. So what if she isn't a doctor? (she obviously knows a lot more than many on the subject of BHRT). She has used her celebrity to further a cause.

I had a blood hormone test done through the medical system. My estradiol levels were "pre-puberty" in my doctor's words. She wanted to put me on estradiol to pump them up. (I was on estriol at the time.) I didn't see the point and shortly thereafter had a saliva test done through ZRT-Labs. They determined that my circulating estradiol was extremely high and (as I wrote earlier) suggested that it was because estriol had targeted my estrogen receptors, making it impossible for the estradiol to find a "nesting spot." The interesting thing was that my doctor had argued that saliva tests were garbage and that the medical association wouldn't approve them. My doc changed completely in the years that followed. She started using BHRT herself and now recommends it for her patients. She can't order saliva tests though as they aren't covered. (I believe that some forms of blood test are better than others but don't know much about this...)

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:00 pm      Reply with quote
I credit Suzanne Somers for opening my eyes to a layman's view of BHRT - she obviously did her homework and didn't rely on doing just what she was told.
To her credit it worked for her and she had a lot of obstacles, including dealing with breast cancer and being unconventional in her choice of treatment.
Christine Northrup spoke near where I live and she actually recommended Suzanne's book to a friend of mine who did a personal consult with her.

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Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:50 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:

Christine Northrup spoke near where I live and she actually recommended Suzanne's book to a friend of mine who did a personal consult with her.


That's cool to hear.

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Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:05 am      Reply with quote
Antonia wrote:
I will see what I can find on DVT. I would imagine that the risk is less but still there. However, that's just a guess. Here's a very good article by a board certified Ozzie anti-aging doc insupport of BHRT:

http://www.antiagingdoctor.co.za/?page_id=7


I'd really appreciate that. Thanks so much, antonia.

My GP is miles better than most other UK doctors I've encountered. Over here, there isn't anywhere near the breadth of treatments available in the US, and they would refuse to even countenance most things Americans take for granted. At least my doctor is more open-minded than most - eg, she was enthusiastic about acupuncture well before it became relatively well accepted by UK GPs.

I don't know how easy, or possible at all, it would be for me to have BHRT in the UK (if it's deemed safe enough for me to do so), but it's something I'd be really keen to try when the time comes.
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:55 am      Reply with quote
Antonia that's a great story about your GYN, and I agree with you and sister sweets about Bisphosphonates. What a strange path medicine has gone down holding hands with Big Pharm and duping millions of people into taking their weird science concoctions. Interrupting normal physiological processes like re-absorption of bone just doesn't pass the sniff test to me, are we all Bisphosphonate deficient? My aunt also had jaw necrosis after taking Fosamax, now she can only eat soft food and her face is disfigured. The half life is 10 years! So even if you stop the drug it's going to take a couple of decades to get out of your system. Besides severe pain and jaw bone death it's also inflammatory, just what we are trying to fight in aging.

I really look forward to traditional medicine evolving into integrative medicine or at least having wellness coaches and dietitians in doctors offices so that people can learn about health and wellness not just get prescriptions.
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:58 pm      Reply with quote
I truly don't understand how these pharmaceutical firms get away with it (well, I do, it's called SPONSORSHIP and political support). I wrote a post about the side effects listed in ads. Although it's amusing, the truth behind it isn't. http://halfahundred.blogspot.com/2009/05/whats-with-these-medical-ads.html My doctor told me that one jumbo jet-full of people die every day in the US alone through medical error. I'm guessing many more die from pharmaceutical side effects. I know that more people die from the side-effects of NSAIDS than from the diseases they are prescribed for.

I think the bisphosphonates are just insane. As you so rightly point out, they disrupt the osteoclasts. But the bones act as calcium reservoirs to supply the body with calcium needed for processes outside of bone building. What if someone runs short of calcium for another vital process and hasn't had any calcium in their diet for a while (if they are on vacation, for example, and not eating normal foods)? I think pharmaceutical firms are among the most disreputable organizations in existence. They are constantly burying findings, as with Vioxx and Baycol. Don takes statins and calcium channel blockers and I worry every day.

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Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:06 pm      Reply with quote
What a superb thread! So glad I found it, I've been wondering for a long time about this topic. I'm only 35, and have spent the last ten years suffering with an insanely ludicrous hormonal rollercoaster ride. For two weeks up to each period I'm wracked with severe body pain and inflammation, extreme fluid retention, and sickening migraines (one of which I have now that I've swallowed a good handful of drugs for already today). My mother had exactly the same thing all her adult life - I knew what PMS was when I was five years old! She is in the process of going through a menopause you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy - anxiety so that she doesn't leave the house for weeks, endless crying etc etc.

Both of us (before she was menopausal) have been to so many doctors over the years that hurl the latest thing at us, either the contraceptive pill or an antidepressant, and give us a look as though we should 'buck up'. Well, I have one of the healthiest diets I've seen anyone eat, people are shocked at how many fruits and vegetables my husband and I get through (we also juice), we exercise, and try to be as up to date as we can with our health without it being too much of an obsession.

Discovering a gluten allergy has alleviated quite a bit of the fluid retention and headaches (although I always have a weeks worth around period time). I'm yet to find out if there's anything else I can do besides what I'm doing to help balance my hormones. What I'm here to ask is can one look into taking some BHRT's before they're menopausal? Is there any suggested reading for me?

I take magnesium, D, fish oils, myriad of amino acids, hyaluronic acid, MSM to help the arthritis I've got a bad case of....
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:15 pm      Reply with quote
Trigger, (being a migraineur myself, I can relate to that name...) I feel so bad for you. My mum was the same - terrible headaches that went on for a week, crying jags, just awful.

If you can find a good doctor or naturopath who specialises in BHRT, he or she can do a hormone profile over a month to see what is happening. Perhaps your hormones need to be balanced a little better. Please drop by and keep us all apprised of your progress Smile

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Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:19 pm      Reply with quote
Antonia I hope that your husband is taking CoQ10 to replace what he's losing taking statins. I only have one or 2 posts left so I may get cut off (I'm new here).

Trigger definitely find a doctor well versed in balancing hormones. My best friend is around your age and she has the EXACT same problems but she has no health insurance so she suffers terribly. Check out Christine Northrup's site for referrals or Women To Women, they do a lot of hormone profiling and they should be able to help you. You shouldn't have to suffer like that.
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:28 pm      Reply with quote
Trigger ~ Although we may not agree on things, I really feel for you. You sound as though you are having a really tough time with hormone imbalance. Although you are an exerciser and it sounds like your diet is good, you are way too young to suffer with hormone imbalance symptoms. There is a good book written by Dr. John Lee called "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Perimenopause ~ Balancing your Hormones from 30 to 50." I found his book very enlightening. He is a proponent of the use of natural progesterone. There is also another book by Dr. Uzzi Reiss entitled "Natural Hormone Balance for Women" Dr. Reiss has an anti-aging clinic & OBGYN practice in California. He has prescribed natural hormones for women as young as 20 to balance their hormones, and put them in a much better place. The world we live in is very toxic and we need to be our own health advocates. When I was searching for a doctor who would prescribe natural hormones, I had a really tough time finding someone. I went on line and did a search for pharmacies in my area that were compounding pharmacies. I then proceeded to call those pharmacies close to my home to see if they indeed compounded bio-identical hormones & asked what doctors prescribed. Sort of a backward way to go about about things, but it worked & I found my doctor that way. Yes, women as young as 35 can be starting peri-menopause, but that doesn't mean menopause is right around the corner. In fact, according to Dr. Uzzi Reiss, peri-meno can last for up to 15 years time. I believe another thing that is creating symptoms in many women is what is in our environment. Everything from toxic cleaning supplies, laundry detergent ~ to the very creams and shampoos we use on our bodies, will create excess estrogen in the body. Many of those chemicals are xenoestrogens which the body recognizes & utilizes as its own. Hence, the symptoms of bloating and headaches will appear in many women. What we can do to aid our personal health is seek healthy alternatives to chemical cleaning products, laundry detergent, skincare & body care products. There is a really good website that will help you determine how safe or unsafe the ingredients are with respect to personal care products. It is called Skin Deep and is sponsored by the Environmental Working Group. Their websites are: http://www.ewg.org and http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ You would be stunned to know what ingredients are indeed xenoestrogens and how many of those ingredients might be in your skincare or other personal care products. Our skin, of course, is the pathway to our bloodstream. So what goes on our skin is as important as what goes into our bodies. I hope this helps you in some way. Best, Aprile
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:29 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks! I'll try to find a doctor that knows about that kind of thing. I'd more or less given up over the last few years and have taken to just medicating myself through the painful bit. It's just so amazing though, that straight after my period (or even during), I suddenly become energetic, unswollen, closer to pain-free - basically a different person, so I know that it's possible! I'd love to be like this most of the time instead of spending half of my life more or less incapacitated! Thankyou for renewing my hopeful interest in finding hormonal balance.

Now the hard part: finding someone who really knows about it and practices it!!
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:45 pm      Reply with quote
Aprile, that website is a shocker, isn't it? I agree with what you have written. Xenoestrogens are everywhere, even in car exhaust. I really am a big fan of estriol as it really targets your estrogen receptors, much in the same way as phytoestrogens.

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Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:48 pm      Reply with quote
Oh you're welcome ~ and it's important to note too Trigger that you may not need to take them forever. Perhaps with some lifestyle changes and a course of bio-identical hormones, you will restore balance & feel like a different person all 30 days of the month. Smile Aprile
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Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:58 pm      Reply with quote
Yay it's so great to meet some like minded people. Aprile I love the idea of calling a compounding pharmacy to get doctors super! And I so agree about chemicals in household & personal stuff, my friends know that I hate chemicals. I have written a couple of times to Proctor & Gamble just to let them know how miserable they make my life with their horrible dryer sheets, my neighbor's dryers vent on both sides of my house so that hideous VOC laden super noxious smell always comes into my house if I have the windows open.

It's getting more mainstream science now that all the chemicals in EVERYTHING are causing the rise in such things as Alzheimer's Disease. And the number one career with Alzhiemer's is cosmotology because of their constant exposure to noxious VOCs.

I don't eat chemicals and I have very little use of them at home, I do dye my hair but I don't rub chemicals on my body or face, I hate hate hate the fact that fragrance is in everything. So even if you try and avoid chemicals it's impossible. You don't have to buy expensive stuff, it's pretty affordable to go chemical free. Even Julia Roberts says she uses vinegar to wash her kitchen floor (her maid does it I'm sure). Once you go chemical free you see how gross and toxic they are.
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