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Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:15 am  |
I have just read another comment from a prominent dermatologist (this time, Dr. Baumann), raising the issue of free radical release on the skin as a result of applying Vitamin C serums during the daytime - where they can be exposed to sunlight - (and ascorbic acids are very fragile).
Does any one see any issue with blending retinoids and Vitamin C serums together and applying them at the same time at night?
In the meantime, I guess I can start looking into the use of a Vitamin E serum (very stable) to use under sunscreen as an antioxidant.
Thanks, BF |
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:06 pm |
| I don't think I would blend them together, per say, but I used to apply a topical C serum first, then wait at least 30 minutes and then apply Retin A. (My thought was that it was ok, as A and C are often mixed together in other topical products.) |
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:27 pm |
Rileygirl,
Did you do this in the p.m.? I am only using the C serum in the a.m. only and I use the retin a in the p.m. Thanks! |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:14 pm |
| kims wrote: |
Rileygirl,
Did you do this in the p.m.? I am only using the C serum in the a.m. only and I use the retin a in the p.m. Thanks! |
Yes, I used to do this in the p.m., kims. (This was after I was done with the Nu Derm) I don't use Retin A any longer, as I am on 302 skin care now. You are doing it right while you are on Nu Derm, kims! |
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Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:12 pm |
Thanks, Rileygirl! I thought I was following the correct sequence in regards to the Nuderm program.  |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:10 am |
Barefootgirl - do you have the link to the article? I really respect Dr B but this surprises me as I had always read that Vit C helps provide some sun protection (but does not replace SS).
I wonder if the same comments would apply if you use a C & E serum (like skinceuticals offers).
I agree with rielygirl regarding product application is you want to use both at night. |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:03 am |
| It increasingly seems that everything I once thought I knew about skincare is all going out the door! |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:13 am |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
Barefootgirl - do you have the link to the article? I really respect Dr B but this surprises me as I had always read that Vit C helps provide some sun protection (but does not replace SS).
I wonder if the same comments would apply if you use a C & E serum (like skinceuticals offers).
I agree with rielygirl regarding product application is you want to use both at night. |
This is what I always thought as well, but the doctor who developed the 302 line says this exact thing about ascorbic acid as well. |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:55 am |
Free radical defense.
Vitamin C is an antioxidant that fights harmful free radicals. However, it’s important to note that vitamin C also “can actually produce free radicals,” cautions dermatologist Leslie Baumann, M.D., in Allure. The reason? When a vitamin C product comes in contact with light or heat, oxidation changes the product’s consistency. And free radicals can result.
The solution? Vitamin C is often combined with other antioxidants, like vitamin E or ferulic acid, to fight free radicals. This way, the other antioxidants can “counteract this effect,” Dr. Baumann explains.
But then, this morning I read the same thing about certain forms of Vitamin E - so the safest seems to be to use antioxidants when not in direct sunlight?
BF |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:41 pm |
| Boy, this is frustrating...just when I think I have things straight..... |
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Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:02 pm |
| I also (sometimes) use a vitamin C serum at night, wait a few minutes and cover with my Renova (retin A) cream. I have had no adverse reactions to this. I do recall Dr. Perricone writing about a Fenton reaction (not sure if I have that name right) with ascorbic acid. (This is in his first book.) He stated that when it comes in contact with Iron, and the skin is loaded with Iron, it produces a dangerous free radical the hydroxyl. That was, I believe, one of the reasons he prefered the C-esters. |
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I am from LI, New York, and enjoy reading and sometimes posting on beauty boards |
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Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:51 pm |
| So then what is the answer? If Vit C deactivates or interferes with Retinols, how do we really know how long to wait between applictions? And if a Vit C product needs Vit E to stop free radical formation, is the Vit C using all its power to stop the new free radicals instead of dealing with existing free radicals generated by other factors? I remember when Cellex C first came out it did not contain any Vit E and none of their studies mentioned formation of free radicals...in fact, just the opposite. One can go mad - and broke - trying to do what's right for your skin! |
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Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:26 am |
Jax, no one said that Vit C deactivates or interferes with Retinols here. Rather, they're saying that using Vit C in the AM can cause free radicals, since light or heat can cause changes in the Vit C.
Barefoot, L Absorbic Acid is an acidic form of Vit C and has a low pH (around 3). Since it is also a liquid, the rules are that you apply it first and let it absorb, which should take about 10 mins or so.
Retin A also has a low pH - around 3-4, but it is in a cream or gel form, so it would need to be applied after the Vit C. Since retinoids need time after application to work, it is best to give your Retin A at least 30-45 mins after application before applying anything else. Their half life is actually about 90 mins, so that *might* be the best time (but I usually gave it 45).
Hearing Dr. B say this lends more credence to the theory that Dr. Perricone and Dr Huber have stated. Glad I'm trying the 302 C boost right now (as it's an tetrahexydecyl ascorbate - an acid free form of Vit C) |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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