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Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:23 pm |
So...I've been using topical C formulations now for 9 mos. without any noticable positive effect. Maybe I'm one of the 40% it doesn't work on. Or maybe it's building collagen down below. (Hopefully not oxidizing and creating more free-radical havoc - who knows?)But I've decided it might be wise to take a 2-3 month break from it and try something else.
Dr.T. from smartskincare has written that copper peptides may be an effective form of reducing wrinkles. Dr. T. doesn't recommend DIY with CP's, but SAS sells a form of them. I don't know where to begin. Do you start with a low percentage and work up? What are the contraindictions you've found with other actives, products, other? Which vendors sell them?
I can't afford "high end" products. Is there a low to middle when it comes to CP's?
Help? Lucy |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:44 pm |
Hi there LLucy
This question, perhaps, belongs in the skincare section. CPs are not a DIYer.
The best place to go (IMO) is from the inventor of CPs - Dr Loren Pickart of Skin Biology.
His website offers lots of different types of CPs for different needs (I've tried almost all of them and can give huge praise for just about everything). He also offers up his research for proof. There are a few co's that offer some CPs in them (not as strong as SB's,but it is the real stuff). Iamin® , Neova®, Tricomin®, Neutrogena & Osmotics do offer a few products w/ CPs. I personally prefer to go w/ the guy that invented them. His products are priced reasonably well and they offer up some free samples w/ a $50 purchase.
It's important to go slowly w/ CPs. Start w/ the weaker one and work your way up. You can also dilute them until your skin gets use to them. It takes a lot of patience w/ CPs to see results. And, it's usually best to use some form of exfoliation w/ them. SB offers up 2 types of gentle acids (can be used daily) - their Exfol serum/cream or their Lacsal one.
Hope that helps |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:16 pm |
Thank you Foxe so much for your input. I posted this here is because it seems the reason so many people get interested in DIY is because they've tried numerous commercial products beforehand.
I haven't researched Dr. Pickard's products because on forums, there have been insinuations that his products, particularly his supplements, are greatly overpriced. I've learned however, not to believe everything I read on forums, sigh. So, I'm looking for comparisons. Thank you for giving me some information with which to start. |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:32 pm |
Oh- I don't think they're overpriced at all. You can easily start out w/ a $22 CP Serum that'll last you for a few months. That's the 1oz size. Then you can move up to stronger CPs &/or larger sizes if you like that one. No reason to move up if it works for you, either.
There's lots of products out there that are overpriced, but I don't think his are all that bad. Plus, the free bonus gifts make it easy to try diff products.
In fact - they just introduced a new product (I haven't tried yet, but hear great things about it) called Skin Signals. It's a ramped up CP Serum - perhaps on scale of the Super CP serum. And - I just checked - it's being offered on a special w/ Emu Oil at a pretty nice price ($10 off). Get that w/ some Exfol serum or cream and you should be able to get a free bonus.
BTW- the Emu Oil is lovely. I've tried 3 diff brands and like this one the best. I was hesitant to try it in the beginning since I have oily/acne probe skin - but it doesn't cause breakouts and sinks right in. It's also wonderful on nails and for wounds. It's recommended for the serums since they are oil (lipid) free and emu oil will help the CPs sink into the skin better.
Good luck. |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:34 pm |
Oh - BTW - Dr. Pickart doesn't sell supplements. It's Dr Perricone that does and HIS products are waaaay overpriced ($300 for a cream???) |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:04 pm |
Hi everyone - Just wanted to let you know I bought the SAS copper peptide and used it and saw nothing from it. I then bought Dr Pickart's copper peptides and saw some
improvements - especially with the skin on the neck a little thicker. The 4oz bottle has lasted me 18 months at using it once a day.
You can try the 1 oz to get started. I refrigerate the copper peptide and it is not supposed to lose it's activity if refrigerated.
I would go for the real thing on copper peptides
and not deal with SAS or ther brands not as
strong unless you have very sensitive skin.
You can always ask about their return policy as well. Good luck - DiPhx |
_________________ getting younger |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:56 am |
Thank you Ladies!
Foxe, you are absolutely right! It's Dr. Perricone's products I have read many people complaining about in terms of price, not Dr. Pickard's. My bad. And the prices for the CP products do sound really reasonable.
DiPix, thanks for steering me away from the SAS version. Having such a limited budget, it's important to me to evaluate carefully the cost vs. effectivness factor.
Can CP's be used along with tretinoin? Alternate days or 12 hours apart? Do they have the same "sun restrictions"? I will be in FL for 6 mos. so this is something I have to consider. Is there a recommendation for how often / how long you use them?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to research as much as I can before making a decision. And I find it so much more helpful to "talk with" people who actually used a product.
Thanks again. |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:51 am |
Hi LLucy - I second the suggestion to go straight for the products of Dr. Pickart. Another suggestion is to check NCNproskincare.com
She sells Dr. Pickart's products at the same price AND has quicker delivery AND has sample sizes!!!! |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:19 am |
Hi Llucy - In order to find out if copper peptides can be used with retinoids, I would go to the SkinBiology website. They have a wealth of information on how to use copper peptides with other products. it probably can be used with retinoids but I would do some reading first. Enjoy - DiPhx |
_________________ getting younger |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:32 am |
Will do! Thanks again. |
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Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:03 pm |
Hi LLucy,
I've heard that some people get the uglies with cp's, but I imagine that depending on the condition of your skin, the more 'remodelling' needed, the more your skin will probably hit a few rough spots. I'm 35, but had bad sundamage, and the beginnings of losing firmness, and same as you - wasn't getting any noticeable result from topical C. I've been using the Cp's now for about a year in conjunction with Retin A, and can say that uniquivocally I've achieved a better result with the CP's than I even got with obagi hydroquinone, vit c, or anything else I've tried. My skin is looking clearer, and keeps improving. Also, my husband who is 15 my senior's skin is looking beautiful, too. He just slathers it on.
It's a very slow process, but I'm convinced. I started on small bottle of regular cp serum, but now have almost used up a big bottle of the super cp. I think I'll try the amped up stuff next. I get from Nancy, and use her microfibre cloths too, as I think it's essential to both use a good manual exfoliation and chemical one to get the best results from Cp's.
Good luck, I hope you enjoy using them!
BTW, I think I managed to amp things up a bit lately with a HA serum I made containing many things, but my pigmentation is reducing by the week, and I'm thinking it's a nice dose of niacinimide I bought from SAS. I love my serum!! It's working! |
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Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:30 pm |
trigger wrote: |
BTW, I think I managed to amp things up a bit lately with a HA serum I made containing many things, but my pigmentation is reducing by the week, and I'm thinking it's a nice dose of niacinimide I bought from SAS. I love my serum!! It's working! |
C'mon now trigger, please post your recipe, so we all can make some.. |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:37 pm |
That's right trigger, don't keep secrets from your sisters! |
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Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:02 am |
LLucy - yes you can use CPs w/ retinoids. I was using mine w/ tazorac or Retin A, alternating a retinoid w/ a BHA.
Have you heard what Dr Pickart says about HAs? He's really against them.
Quote: |
Hyaluronic acid (scientifically named "hyaluronan") is a sugar-like
molecule that can bind huge amount of water (1000-fold of its own weight).
When applied to the surface of human skin, it feels smooth and
sensuous but will wet the skin's outer protective proteins and
slow the flow of new keratinocytes to the skin's surface. Thus will damage the skin barrier. Hyaluronic acid does not help skin health. |
Other things I've heard about HA is that in a dry environment (like winter), instead of drawing moisture out of the air to 'plump' your skin, it will draw moisture out of your skin, and that is the opposite effect you want. That will dry your skin more.
Just some FYI |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:20 am |
oh man! I forgot about that foxe! We learned that HA would take moisture from your skin if the weather was particularly dry in aesthy classes, but I'd never heard about it slowing things down. It makes sense though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Next time I'll use a different base, maybe sea kelp bioferment (SKB) which is what it is half of at the moment, aloe vera, and perhaps a touch of glycerine (anyone tried that? anything wrong with it?).
The ingredients I used could be put in any cream or serum base. I haven't been using moisturizers at all these days, as my skin is so smooth with no dry or rough spots. I used the HA mainly because it helped thicken up the serum nicely. Using SKB and aloe might be fine.
I think it's the niacinimide that's giving the results as far as evening out my skins color, but it looks the healthiest it ever has, so I'll list everything I can remember putting in it. It didn't cost a fortune, and I've got so much of the ingredients left I can and will make many more batches - in a different base of course.
I used a pinch of the following in a rather unscientific way:
niacinimide &
tetrahydracurcuminoids - for pigmentation
pomegranate & ECGC (green tea) extracts - for antiox
EGF & Natural Active Peptides & Dermagen (natural matrixyl) - for skin rebuilding
I also added a little pure msm powder I had as I read that it was able to be utilised by the skin and in fact I have a cream with msm for muscle/joint pain. I think I sprinkled a few aminos in there too (probably Alpha Lipoic and Glutathione) as I'd read they help with skin health and it couldn't hurt!
If anyone knows how to make a great serum base without HA, I'd love to know!
That's it! I made the HA/SKB serum first, then added the ingredients to a little, then stirred them all together taking care to add the EGF last as it doesn't like being shaken around much. |
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Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:38 pm |
skinbio CPs are not that expensive and a bottle of serum lasts ages. |
_________________ my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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firstaka
New Member
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 4
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Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:19 pm |
foxe wrote: |
Oh - BTW - Dr. Pickart doesn't sell supplements. It's Dr Perricone that does and HIS products are waaaay overpriced ($300 for a cream???) |
I would have to agree in part. I just started using his products but only because I found his deal of the day where his products are sometimes marked down to 90% off.
With those kinds of discounts, I am FINALLY able to afford it. So far so good. |
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:38 am |
Could any dear person who understands a bit about CP's help me a little.
I wish to trial CP's for use on the pigmentation on my chest/arms/back. Now obviously I'll need a fair quantity so I am reluctant to start too low with the strength. Do you think for body areas I could go straight to using (say) SuperCop serum? I could dilute it still couldn't I?
Any info, greatly appreciated.
Rebecca |
_________________ 47 years old. Battling aging and pigmentation. Using Tria and Pico and Dermapen. |
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:39 am |
snowqueen67 wrote: |
Could any dear person who understands a bit about CP's help me a little.
I wish to trial CP's for use on the pigmentation on my chest/arms/back. Now obviously I'll need a fair quantity so I am reluctant to start too low with the strength. Do you think for body areas I could go straight to using (say) SuperCop serum? I could dilute it still couldn't I?
Any info, greatly appreciated.
Rebecca |
The body skin is different than the face or decollette. You should try the TriReduction cream. SuperCop is also a cream and you can also try that, but it might be better to start w/ the TriReduction first since it's weaker.
With the creams, the easiest way to dilute is to apply a biological healing oil first, like Emu, Squalene or even Jojoba oil. Then when your skin is use to it (and the body skin shouldn't have as much of a problem as the face or chest), then you can apply the oil afterwards to help the CPs sink in. The chest is usually more sinsitive for most ppl, and SB makes one specific for that called the P&R Decollette Cream |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:20 pm |
foxe wrote: |
snowqueen67 wrote: |
Could any dear person who understands a bit about CP's help me a little.
I wish to trial CP's for use on the pigmentation on my chest/arms/back. Now obviously I'll need a fair quantity so I am reluctant to start too low with the strength. Do you think for body areas I could go straight to using (say) SuperCop serum? I could dilute it still couldn't I?
Any info, greatly appreciated.
Rebecca |
The body skin is different than the face or decollette. You should try the TriReduction cream. SuperCop is also a cream and you can also try that, but it might be better to start w/ the TriReduction first since it's weaker.
With the creams, the easiest way to dilute is to apply a biological healing oil first, like Emu, Squalene or even Jojoba oil. Then when your skin is use to it (and the body skin shouldn't have as much of a problem as the face or chest), then you can apply the oil afterwards to help the CPs sink in. The chest is usually more sinsitive for most ppl, and SB makes one specific for that called the P&R Decollette Cream |
Thanks fox...going to order now!
rebecca |
_________________ 47 years old. Battling aging and pigmentation. Using Tria and Pico and Dermapen. |
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