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Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:08 pm  |
It seems that one key to success with active ingredients in DIY serums is how well the serum and or actives are actually able to penetrate the skin.
Let's share what we collectively know about product penetration in order to better deal with it.
What I have learned so far:
- pH can have an impact (water soluble C solutions)
- water vs oil soluble solutions (apparently oil solubility enhances penetration)
- heat enhances penetration
- skin moisture can enhance penetration (how soon you apply a topical after washing your face)
- how many layers of dead skin cells you have (acids and peels can remove upper layers of cells and this enhances penetration)
- molecule weight/size of the active ingredient
- dermarolling can enhance penetration
- microcurrent can enhance penetration
- ultrasound units can enhance penetration
- delivery methods such as microencapsulated and liposomal ingredients can enhance penetration
- suspension of actives in thick carrier creams can decrease penetration.
Anything else to add?
Thanks, BF |
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Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:31 pm |
| Thanks BF! Great info and I can't think of anything that you missed other than massage, which may fall under the "heat" category. It definitely increases circulation and so must help with penetration, no? |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:57 am |
Thanks BF this is really helpful! I've always applied a *thick* layer of products on my face and waited for it to "soak" 
Now I realize how silly that is I'm going to look into getting an ultrasound unit. Thanks! |
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Asian. Near 30. Prone to broken caps, moles + freckles, large congested pores, hormonal cystic acne, flaky skin and fat puffy eyelids. Staples: Bioderma SS, Taz, Dr. Kassy's C, Skinoren, HQ, Cerave and growth factors-- but also trying EVERYTHING ELSE..... |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:33 am |
I've also read "tapping" your face after applying products helps them absorb better also. Don't know if this is actually true, but I do it anyway just in case.  |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:23 am |
Hi everyone - does this mean that the base creams we purchase from GOW, Skinactives etc and then DIY with actives not penetrate well because the creams are too heavy??? Help on this one - if the creams are too heavy, what would you recommend mixing the actives in. I have dry skin as I'm in my late 50's so need something moisturizing as well. Please help me understand this a little better.
Thx DiPhx |
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getting younger |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:30 am |
| I haven't experimented with those creams DiPhx, so I don't know the answer. I have used DMAE before as an active though, and it has the property of thinning thick creams. |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:39 am |
Thx Llucy - I do use the Skinactives DMAE solution which I really like - and over that I use my antioxidant cream. Am just wondering if
the antiox cream is not pentrating. DiPhx |
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getting younger |
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Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:58 am |
This is only my opinion/interpretation, based on some research, as well as what is working;
- The thinner the better. Serums are my preference, as they are readily absorbed, especially around the entire eye area. I save the cream consistency for body, and occasionally my neck + decollete'.
- Since 60% of *anything* applied to the skin will be absorbed by the skin (as well as blood), I prefer to keep the active portion as high as possible, and I look for a base that contains the least amount of chemical preservative, and opt for the preservation power of antioxidants.. (Juice Beauty Serums are 95% organic + pure, and suit me quite nicely.)
- The only thing I would add to 'Barefoot's' great advice for penetration is; I've found that if I apply my antioxidant serum, and then 30 minutes later put on an occlusive oil mix, and then use the small face Vaculifter, I seem to really benefit from this... I believe this allows the anti-oxidants to absorb as much as possible on their own, and then the oil + massage pushes everything in further, and forms a nice seal as well. (As a final step I apply a very hot cloth to my face, neck + decollete', until cool..) The result is always the same; moist, dewy, plump skin, with a very healthy glow.
My favorite oils include; (I often just switch off, using 2 or 3 mixed together.)
Avocado
Virgin Palm (as red as the devil, and quite smelly, but the benefits make it worth it.)
Coconut
Jojoba (technically a wax ester, but a real pusher inner, and great for the skin..
Rosehip
Grapeseed
- Derma Wand also enhances product penetration, but is not effective with oils.. Save this for when you've applied a basic nourishing, water based serum. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:12 am |
I agree with Kassy about the oils and the use of the Vaculifter. I apply my serums then oils, then massage like mad with the Vaculifter. This seems to make the oils sink into the skin.
I do worry sometimes that I don't mix a commercial penetration aid into my DIY serums. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:25 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| I've found that if I apply my antioxidant serum, and then 30 minutes later put on an occlusive oil mix, and then use the small face Vaculifter, I seem to really benefit from this... I believe this allows the anti-oxidants to absorb as much as possible on their own, and then the oil + massage pushes everything in further, and forms a nice seal as well. |
Can you explain this more, Kassy? I thought the vaculifter lifted out things from the skin? |
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Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:46 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| I've found that if I apply my antioxidant serum, and then 30 minutes later put on an occlusive oil mix, and then use the small face Vaculifter, I seem to really benefit from this... I believe this allows the anti-oxidants to absorb as much as possible on their own, and then the oil + massage pushes everything in further, and forms a nice seal as well. |
Can you explain this more, Kassy? I thought the vaculifter lifted out things from the skin? |
Well here's my thought on that.. IF, you are using the Vaculifter after a thorough cleansing + exfoliation (as I do), then there really isn't any impurities left to suck out.. For instance, I have not even once encountered any dead skin or dirt in the cups when I'm finished.
By the end of my 5 to 10 minute massage session, there really isn't much oil left on my skin, and what is left I either gently wipe away, or just apply a hot wrung out cloth, which easily helps the remainder to penetrate.
What's very nice, is the healthy, moist, dewy look to the skin when finished. |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:55 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
Well here's my thought on that.. IF, you are using the Vaculifter after a thorough cleansing + exfoliation (as I do), then there really isn't any impurities left to suck out.. For instance, I have not even once encountered any dead skin or dirt in the cups when I'm finished.
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Gotcha! Thanks for the explanation!  |
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Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:59 am |
Just applying products after a shower will greatly increase topical penetration.
from http://www.scf-online.com/english/37_e/skinpenetration37_e.htm
Water as penetration enhancer
Hydration of the stratum corneum is one of the primary measures to increase the penetration of most active compounds. Water opens up the compact structure of the horny layer. The water content of the horny layer can be increased either by delivering water from the vehicle to the skin or by preventing water loss from the skin when partially occlusive formulations are applied to the skin. |
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Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:27 am |
| lagomorph wrote: |
Just applying products after a shower will greatly increase topical penetration.
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Yes, that is why people people are told to not apply Retin A (tretinoin, etc.) on wet skin. |
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Wed Aug 26, 2009 5:47 am |
This is an excellent article, thank you for sharing it.
BF |
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:06 pm |
Bulk Actives has several ingredients that increase penetration and can be used in DIY creams.
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| Arlasolve DMI (dimethyl isosorbide) and alpha bisobola natural, are two penetration enhancers that increase transdermal delivery of cosmeceuticals. Gels and creams with a Lamellar or liquid crystal structure also enhance penetration of active ingredients. |
There are also transdermal delivery products which seem to be used by bodybuilders. I don't know why they couldn't be used for skincare products, too. One I found is Penetrate 2.0. These are the ingredients:
Distilled water, grape spirits*, aloe vera*, ethoxy diglycol, dimethyl isosorbide, butylene glycol, jojoba oil, emu oil, squalene, tocopherol acetate, chamomile extract* (matricaria recutita), isopropyl myristate, green tea extract* (camellia sinensis), cetyl palmitate, sorbitan palmitate, sorbitan olivate, glyceryl stearate, PEG 100 stearate, glycerin, dimethicone, strontium nitrate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, d-Limonene, tetrahydropiperine†, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, sodium PCA, sodium hydroxide. |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:24 am |
" Since 60% of *anything* applied to the skin will be absorbed by the skin (as well as blood), I prefer to keep the active portion as high as possible..."
Kassy, you stated the above quote; could you please provide me with some evidence that this is true? I was under the impression that NO cosmetic product (ie not a prescription drug) will contain ingredients that have the capacity to enter the blood stream. TIA
This question is open to all: How do you personally define "product/ingredient penetration"? I think we may have different definitions and therefore our responses to the original post will differ.
In addition to molecular size (under 500 daltons molecular weight) I have read that polarity is also a factor. Ethanol alcohol (the "bad" alcohol) is often used as an ingredient that increases penetration.
Interesting information in this post; thank you! |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:51 am |
I have always thought that penetration of cosmetic ingredients means getting through the upper layer of the epidermis (ie the stratum corneum). Simple as that! Given that assumption, it means (to me at least) that cosmetic products affect the epidermis; I am unsure whether they can reach the actual dermis of the skin.
Is this the general consensus of everyone who has posted on this thread? Or does everyone have a different opinion as to their personal definition of penetration? TIA |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:44 am |
In my opinion, the epidermis. I cannot emphasize how valuable I found the two articles previously attached in this thread for an understanding of the total issue.
Recommended reading!
BF |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:14 pm |
Thank you BF for your response; it's nice to know we are in agreement on our definition of penetration. I read the cited articles (and many similar articles) prior to posting my questions; I just wanted to verity that people understood exactly what penetration means.
Are you aware of any reliable information regarding penetration with respect to the dermis? In other words, once an ingredient has penetrated the stratum corneum, does that automatically mean it is able to enter the dermal layer of the skin? I raise this query simply because most of us are interested in building, preserving or replacing collagen and elastin (which reside in the dermis, not the epidermis). I know the marketing spiel; I am looking for scientific literature.
I am still perplexed by the statement that "60% of anything applied to the skin will be absorbed by the skin (and the blood)..." Do you know anything at all about this? Was Kassy referring to cosmetic skin care products? I have read that she has a medical background; is it possible that she was referring to topical drugs (such as tretinoin)? I appreciate any responses you may have to my queries. TIA |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:37 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
| In my opinion, the epidermis. |
I also think the epidermis. |
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:30 pm |
I think (can't recall exactly) that when an ingredient penetrates down to the dermal level, it is considered a drug and not a cosmetic and is therefore subject to govt. regulation.
here is something I just found but have not yet read:
http://www.topical-formulations.com/topical/interactive.pdf
BF |
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