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Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:23 am  |
Really loved this post Sean, thanks! I'm an artist and when I train people I expect them to go through a "crap this is crap I'm crap it's all crap stage" (sorry for the language!)I've had tears and tantrums and rage attacks in my little studio that most toddlers would be nervous of  It's the way with teaching people. Not all people of course, but usually when it comes to being creative people get very sensitive. So I think part of the creative process is to throw a wobbly, not be able to see reality and hate everything. Usually with painting, that's fine and it's well understood, but when it comes to one's own face? Think that's even worse and much harder to cope with. I think I haven't really had an "awkward stage" with FEs because I have learnt as an artist to go with the flow of "this is crap aaarrrggghhh" and know that things are working even when they look a bit rough, but not everyone has that experience at work, so I can completely understand hitting the so called "awkward phase" and going into massive struggle about it. Anyway, just wanted to thank you for writing what you did, like your take on it. Hawthorn.
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
I think its like most things, in the beginning when your body (or face) has gone through so many years of neglect, it takes time to adapt. Its not really sure of whats going on whether it’s a massage technique, facial exercises or even skin remodeling agents. Re squeezing the muscles etc, well I think Lou says that it stimulates and challenges the face, which is true.
If someone has thin skin, then they need to stimulate their body to either begin thickening the skin (which could be done in many ways) but the most sensible would be in my mind to use supplements, diet, skincare (topical) and some form of facial exercises and/or massage.
Re awkward stages, its kind of a misused term that has been sadly abused heavily. When you work facial muscles, they don’t all immediately respond no matter what system you use whether FlexEffect, Facercise, Eva Fraser’s etc. The reason is that we all have some muscles which are in a healthy state and ready and ready to be challenged and in comparison we all have weaker muscles which haven’t been used or challenged and don’t appear to have any effect from the exercises until a little while into the program.
So for me awkward stages aren’t so much about going backwards, but more about the time it takes for all the muscles to respond and build. This is only one example where I have seen the term “awkward stage” used, but I have also seen it used where a person has done a particular exercise because she liked the feel of it throughout her day and actually overbuilt the muscle and then labeled that as an “awkward stage”. It’s a term that I really hate as its not really descriptive of what is happening. I’ve also seen it used where a person began an aggressive workout in their later years and as you know with muscle building, diet is a key feature no matter what program your using, and they were saying they were in an awkward stage, which in reality was simply that they were challenging their facial muscles and living on a fast food diet (not joking you - at least two meals a day were from fast food chains). This has an impact on the results no matter what system your doing.
Its something that used to get applied to the system I use all the time, and I can understand why people attribute that label to it, but its not always indicative of whats taking place. Also I think that a great deal of systems in the past haven’t had forums etc and its not surprising to me either to learn that many times when awkward stages have been reported in the past, the person hasn’t been following FlexEffect solely but often incorporated other systems into their workout (which is great) but done so before they have gained a proper knowledge of their face.
Sean |
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Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:00 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| Hi Aprile :)My cheeks became a little higher and a little more toned, but the area to the left and right of my face didn't becomes any more or less gaunt on Facercise. But I did get some build from the Facercise lip exercise, which with the more toned cheeks, looked strange on me. It wasn't that bad, but it did look a bit worse. |
CM ~ Not trying to split hairs here, but I thought you said the only way to get any build was with applied resistance. But I thought you said Carole's exercises don't apply any resistance, so how do you explain your lips getting overbuilt then? |
Right: great question. At some points, I simplified things to avoid making things too technical. But here are the very specific technical details:
* isometric toning exercises (toning exercises where the muscle tenses but does not move) can very slightly increase muscle build, but not substantially, and tend to increase muscle density but not muscle size more towards the ends of the muscle
* non-isometric toning exercises can very slightly increase muscle build, but not substantially, and tend to do so evenly along the muscle.
* resistance exercises can substantially increase muscle size, and tend to do so a bit more at the belly (middle part, c.f., the ends) of the muscle
And on top of this, there is the complication that some of the Facercise exercises involve resistance, some are isometric toning exercises, and some are non-isometric toning exercises, and some involve more than one technique!
However, the one clear thing is that all the Facercise cheek exercises are not resistance exercises, so are only toning exercises. That's the main reason why long-term the Facercise cheek exercises didn't work for me, because I need to build a significant amount of muscle. But like I said before, I like a lot of the other Facercise exercises (I use three of them regularly), and I definitely cannot live without the Nose Shortener exercise, which is fabulous! 
I didn't want to make things too complicated with all this technical detail...so while sometimes I said toning exercises do not significantly build muscle, other things I simplified things by saying toning exercises build no muscle. But the precise technical statement is that toning exercises can only very slightly increase muscle size. Sorry, I hope I didn't make things confusing by simplifying things too much!
So I did get a very slight muscle build from the Facercise exercises mouth, but like I said, it wasn't a bit deal; the balance between my cheeks and mouth just looked a little less good. But the main point remains the same: to *significantly* build muscle, you do need to do resistance exercises.
| aprile wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| If you have the particular problem of needing more fullness in the face, then you either need to gain weight or try to restore fullness by building muscle. This is what both FlexEffect and Ageless (and I think also Facial Magic??) claim to be able to do by focusing on resistance-based exercises that increase muscle size. Of course, I'm testing these claims...so far, FlexEffect has been the best for me in this regard and I've gained the most fullness in my cheeks and eliminated much of my cheek hollows with them...whether it will completely eliminate my gaunt face, I'm hopeful but I truly dunno yet...but there's no question in my mind that this particular facial exercise program of the six facial exercise programs that I've tried is the best at restoring fullness to the cheeks (at [/size]least for me; I recognize different people have different experiences ). |
CM ~ Yes agreed, different people most definitely will have different experiences with each program. I think it really depends upon a lot of variables including the condition & health of your skin, amount of lost fat pads, collagen and elastin that you are trying to compensate for with muscle toning and building. But I am curious as to how long you’ve been trying to fill out that hollowed out area using Flex Effect? |
For 5 years now...With my first progress starting about 8-10 months ago, while doing the cheek exercises from FlexEffect.
| aprile wrote: |
| I can tell you one thing for sure, if I lose a few pounds, my face looks more gaunt. I gain a few pounds back and that area fills in nicely. So what I really think is that you need to have some facial fat to work with in order to truly fill in that area whether you are using resistance or not. Just my opinion and the fact that the muscle there is so flat. |
Sure, I definitely agree some fat is needed. But I would think that muscle, too, can make up for some loss of fat and/or facial fullness.
About the muscle being flat there, it seems to me to be flat just like the abdominal muscle. And for abs, if you do just toning exercises, you will get a lovely flat stomach, perhaps also with the light "etchings" of a four or six pack (e.g., like a swinsuit model). But if you also you weights or resistance in exercising your stomach, you can build it outwards, and get a large very muscular, bulky-looking six pack, like body-builders have. Then on top of that, you have the additional variable of fat that you can vary that makes your stomach muscle more or less visible and that also contributes to fullness. So that's what I aiming to do: to build that flat buccinator muscle outwards to give my face more fullness, as my prior gauntness isn't because my overall body fat percentage is too low.
| aprile wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| About Carole having you push your feet into the wall, that wouldn't apply any "weight" or "resistance" to the cheek muscle. What you need to do is to apply a force, to make it hard for the muscle itself to contract when you are exercising it; that is what builds muscle. A good analogy would be that pushing your feet against the wall while doing a bicep curl won't build your bicep muscle, but curling a dumbbell will. Also, using your other hand to apply a force and push against your wrist will a apply a force to the muscle as it contracts, which acts like a weight, applying resistance to the muscle; that, too, will build your bicep muscle. In both Ageless and FlexEffect, that is what you are want you are aiming to do with your hands; to have them serve as weight by applying a force directly to your muscles, making it hard for them to contract. Does that help explain things better?HTH |
Yes CM, your explanation is much clearer to me this time around ~ thanks so much for your kind response and the time you took to explain in more detail to me. I guess I just wasn’t really clear as to what Lou Lou was doing with her hands while she was demonstrating the Cheek exercises!! It looked more like a lot of prodding and pulling and stretching of the skin. So I gather she was pushing against the muscle all the while? Kind regards, Aprile |
Yep!
HTH, and all my best |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:17 am |
| WOW CM5597 ~ I am totally impressed by your advanced understanding of muscle growth possibilities! I have to hand it to you too sticking it out for 5 years! By that time, I'd be so patient, I'd probably way overdo things in an effort to fill in that gaunt area. I'm happy for you too that you've been able to see some progress there as well! I know you say it's not that you have low body fat, but for some of us we do need a bit more to sufficiently fill out that area. For instance, those us who are in the over 40 or even over 50 set, have less body fat to begin with, and therefore we do need to make sure we don't get too thin. I would be very interested to know about the specific exercise you are using to fill in that area of the face.. Perhaps you can PM me. Many thanks for all of yor insight!! Best wishes, Aprile |
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Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:30 am |
| hawthorn wrote: |
| Hi Aprile, sure this has been answered fully by others, but if you are curious about Loulou's exercises for cheeks, I think they're fab! Looks like you've got all you need from Carole's programme (saw your blog and you look lovely, beautiful skin too!)So perhaps you don't need anything else. What Lou's exercises have done for me is to hike my cheeks up nicely. I'm 37 and always looked a bit younger. I thought I didn't have much to do in my cheek area, but Ageless has given my face a higher prettier shape than I ever had in my 20s. The resistance really works. Hawthorn. |
Hi Hawthorn,
Thanks for your kind words and compliments. I was very curious about Lou Lou's program for filling in the cheek area, as it is an area that is very susceptible to getting that gaunt look if I lose weight. Unfortunately, my face doesn't have much fat to begin with, and therefore Carole's exercises have made up for that. But as we age, our faces continue to lose fat pads as well as collagen and elastin. The facial mitts that Carole sells have helped tremendously with with the overall health and integrity of my facial skin by exfoliating, encouraging new skin cell turnover and seems to have even thickened my skin as well. Not to mention, they have toned and tightened and lifted my skin considerably (in conjunction with my facial exercise routine). I am curious about Carole's new Ultimate Facercise DVD, as I am told there are new exercises and perhaps there are more for building. Not that I am adverse to adding some from other programs. I just need to be real careful as to not overdo!! I've been known to do that in the past! Thanks again, Aprile |
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Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:46 am |
Glad it helped Hawthorn. I know what you mean re the tears and crap stages, and like you said when it comes to the face, we all get a little overly sensitive but its always a change in progress in my experience. Its something that people always attribute to FE and whilst I understand why it happens, they never give you the reasons behind it, and it’s a bit of a scaremonger tactic I have seen used by many competitors. Really almost every and any facial exercise program will take time to work and deliver its magic, but in the process of doing so it can deliver what seem like scary results.
| hawthorn wrote: |
Really loved this post Sean, thanks! I'm an artist and when I train people I expect them to go through a "crap this is crap I'm crap it's all crap stage" (sorry for the language!)I've had tears and tantrums and rage attacks in my little studio that most toddlers would be nervous of It's the way with teaching people. Not all people of course, but usually when it comes to being creative people get very sensitive. So I think part of the creative process is to throw a wobbly, not be able to see reality and hate everything. Usually with painting, that's fine and it's well understood, but when it comes to one's own face? Think that's even worse and much harder to cope with. I think I haven't really had an "awkward stage" with FEs because I have learnt as an artist to go with the flow of "this is crap aaarrrggghhh" and know that things are working even when they look a bit rough, but not everyone has that experience at work, so I can completely understand hitting the so called "awkward phase" and going into massive struggle about it. Anyway, just wanted to thank you for writing what you did, like your take on it. Hawthorn.
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:49 am |
Hi Aprile
As Cm says she has simplified things to explain it, but you can see muscle building is such an advanced science (which I think many people never really appreciate until they start facial exercise programs). One thing I like about Carole’s approach is that she recognizes the importance of nutrition and skincare in conjunction with the exercises.
Re facial fat in the 40’s and 50’s bracket, whilst people may have less fat to begin with, if they are adjusting their diets to ensure they getting adequate nutrients and then using techniques like massage and facial exercises although they won’t be able to replace fat with fat they can often stimulate the body and cells to beef up nicely and create the appearance of fullness. CM has also customized her workouts to suit her face (as 5 years is a long time she’s probably quite an expert at what her face can take).
Sean
| aprile wrote: |
| WOW CM5597 ~ I am totally impressed by your advanced understanding of muscle growth possibilities! I have to hand it to you too sticking it out for 5 years! By that time, I'd be so patient, I'd probably way overdo things in an effort to fill in that gaunt area. I'm happy for you too that you've been able to see some progress there as well! I know you say it's not that you have low body fat, but for some of us we do need a bit more to sufficiently fill out that area. For instance, those us who are in the over 40 or even over 50 set, have less body fat to begin with, and therefore we do need to make sure we don't get too thin. I would be very interested to know about the specific exercise you are using to fill in that area of the face.. Perhaps you can PM me. Many thanks for all of yor insight!! Best wishes, Aprile |
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_________________
FlexEffect Trainer |
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Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:27 am |
| Hi Sean ~ Absolutely couldn't agree with you more regarding skincare and diet being an important component of the entire process of facial rejuvenation. Carole does stress those things, as well as proper hydration for muscle building. All of our faces can suffer from lack of proper nutrition and hydration. I actually try to incorporate certain foods into my diet because they contain the "right" fats although I may not really LOVE them! Also took a page out of the green smoothie book to add some good nutrients in when I can. CM is absolutely an expert and I am very impressed by her! I am certain she knows how much her face can take ~ it's just the rather impatient ones like me who will overdo things!She also recognizes that facial rejuventation is a journey ~ rather than a race. One can always continue to see progress when using a facial exercise program. Thanks for all of your kind words and insight into the process. Best wishes, Aprile |
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Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:40 am |
Hi Aprile,
Have just started to do the no lipo massage on my face as I'm looking for something to lift my skin on my lower face, have done facial massage since I started FEs but am zipping it up a bit. Think massage is fab! Best, Hawthorn.
| aprile wrote: |
Hi Hawthorn,
Thanks for your kind words and compliments. I was very curious about Lou Lou's program for filling in the cheek area, as it is an area that is very susceptible to getting that gaunt look if I lose weight. Unfortunately, my face doesn't have much fat to begin with, and therefore Carole's exercises have made up for that. But as we age, our faces continue to lose fat pads as well as collagen and elastin. The facial mitts that Carole sells have helped tremendously with with the overall health and integrity of my facial skin by exfoliating, encouraging new skin cell turnover and seems to have even thickened my skin as well. Not to mention, they have toned and tightened and lifted my skin considerably (in conjunction with my facial exercise routine). I am curious about Carole's new Ultimate Facercise DVD, as I am told there are new exercises and perhaps there are more for building. Not that I am adverse to adding some from other programs. I just need to be real careful as to not overdo!! I've been known to do that in the past! Thanks again, Aprile |
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Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:19 pm |
Hi Hawthorn,
Are you using the facial beauty mitt and the bamboo mitt that Carole sells? If not, let me tell you the bamboo mitt is so great at truly turbo charging your complexion, as well as added tightening and lifting. They are truly awesome and at $7.50 & $10 they're a steal! Best wishes, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:13 am |
| aprile wrote: |
Hi Hawthorn,
Are you using the facial beauty mitt and the bamboo mitt that Carole sells? If not, let me tell you the bamboo mitt is so great at truly turbo charging your complexion, as well as added tightening and lifting. They are truly awesome and at $7.50 & $10 they're a steal! Best wishes, Aprile |
Aprile, have you ever tried a dry brushing body brush? I'm just wondering what the difference is, if any. I've been dry brushing for years and am just curious if I would get any better results with the mitt. I've never dry brushed my face. I do use an exfoliating wash rag daily. Would the beauty mitt and rag be over kill? |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:27 am |
I have both the facial mitts she sells, and must confess I don't think they are that great. I do dry facial brushing though with a little brush. I think Aprile told me about how to use the mitts, as mine didn't come with instructions, and I have to say I really didn't think they did anything special for my skin personally, but dry facial brushing is fantastic. I do like the horsehair body gloves she has, as that really does help my fat areas, but her facial mitts I think are naff!
| aprile wrote: |
Hi Hawthorn,
Are you using the facial beauty mitt and the bamboo mitt that Carole sells? If not, let me tell you the bamboo mitt is so great at truly turbo charging your complexion, as well as added tightening and lifting. They are truly awesome and at $7.50 & $10 they're a steal! Best wishes, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:53 am |
Hi Theresa,
Just curious, are you using 20-30 circular strokes per area of your face in the morning (with the facial beauty mitt) and then the same again in the evening (with the bamboo mitt)? I have found with the mitts, more is better. My experience has been great since I stepped up my dry exfoliating and particularly the number of circular strokes. As for the horsehair mitt, it does work great, but even better once I stepped up to 60 strokes per area. Carole could never recommend that many strokes for ultimate results, as most people would never do that many. You can get good results with 30-40 strokes, but those of us with peri-menopausal thinner skin will most definitely benefit by doing more...body and face!! Take care, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:58 am |
| krystiluv wrote: |
| Aprile, have you ever tried a dry brushing body brush? I'm just wondering what the difference is, if any. I've been dry brushing for years and am just curious if I would get any better results with the mitt. I've never dry brushed my face. I do use an exfoliating wash rag daily. Would the beauty mitt and rag be over kill? |
Yes I have used both the sisal louffa mitt that Carole Maggio sells and most recently, the horsehair mitt. I enjoyed using the sisal, but the horsehair mitt results blow away the results of the sisal. The benefits are exfoliation, firming and lifting. The skin of the body and face can both be greatly improved by dry brushing (see my post below). Plus, as an added benefit your skin will glow. I don't even wear base makeup anymore....just under eye concealer and I'm 53 years old. All the best, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:09 am |
I was doing 20-30 strokes per face after speaking to Carole on the telephone, as I was never sent instructions with my order so emailed (and got no response) and then telephoned to ask for instructions.
I was told not to use both on the same day, but to use one mit one day, and alternate the other the next day. I still have them somewhere but really didn't notice anything special about them.
Carole said to me at the time she was trying a new glove on her face which made her skin go really red (and I'm wondering whether thats the horse hair one).
I personally would be worried about doing that many strokes, as it might thin the skin - and doing it twice a day. Carole never said that part to me.
| aprile wrote: |
Hi Theresa,
Just curious, are you using 20-30 circular strokes per area of your face in the morning (with the facial beauty mitt) and then the same again in the evening (with the bamboo mitt)? I have found with the mitts, more is better. My experience has been great since I stepped up my dry exfoliating and particularly the number of circular strokes. As for the horsehair mitt, it does work great, but even better once I stepped up to 60 strokes per area. Carole could never recommend that many strokes for ultimate results, as most people would never do that many. You can get good results with 30-40 strokes, but those of us with peri-menopausal thinner skin will most definitely benefit by doing more...body and face!! Take care, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:49 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| Carole said to me at the time she was trying a new glove on her face which made her skin go really red (and I'm wondering whether thats the horse hair one). I personally would be worried about doing that many strokes, as it might thin the skin - and doing it twice a day. Carole never said that part to me. |
Hi Theresa,
Sorry it didn't work out for you. Carole may be trying out a new glove, as she is always investigating different new products that work better. She gets these louffas and mitts from Germany. I believe the horsehair mitt would be way to rough to use on the face. As far as 20-30 strokes per day ~ the skin is quite resilient and in fact using that many strokes has made mine more resilient, somehow thicker. I believe it may even stimulate collagen production. Perhaps one of the many knowledgeable people on this forum might want to chime in here about that possibility. Sean or Claudia? Take care, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:11 pm |
| I don't remember reading about the horse hair or bamboo mitt when i purchased mine... They seem great. Guess another order will have to happen - Is Carole's new CD out? |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:48 am |
I think its a dvd and cds and it should be out today according to the website.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| I don't remember reading about the horse hair or bamboo mitt when i purchased mine... They seem great. Guess another order will have to happen - Is Carole's new CD out? |
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sunfood
New Member
 
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 6
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:40 pm |
hey guys. can anyone tell me how to dry brush my face. direction of motion and all. and which brushes are best. how do i brush the area around the eyes ?
thanks so much |
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lbrf
New Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 2
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:59 pm |
| I've been using Carole Maggio's facercise program for about 5 and a half yrs. The reason I stuck to it was because after I did them everyday for 2 weeks, my boyfriend looked at me suspiciously and said, "You look younger."(I didn't do them in front of him). Because he was frowning and looking suspicious and not trying to flatter me, I believed him, and have stuck with it ever since. I just turned 42, and while of course it is not the fountain of youth, I think it has at least preserved my 36 yr old face...I also do these exercises by Eva Fraser which you do every OTHER day, and take much less time. I would love to try Flexeffect, but I ordered it off the Internet, and although they took my money, I never received the product!! so buyer beware. |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:24 pm |
| sunfood wrote: |
| hey guys. can anyone tell me how to dry brush my face. direction of motion and all. and which brushes are best. how do i brush the area around the eyes ? thanks so much |
If you are using Carole Maggio's facial louffa mitts ~ Do 20-30 quick circles around your face. You can also do this in the eye area. Make sure the circles are small. HTH! ~ Aprile |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:27 pm |
| lbrf wrote: |
| I've been using Carole Maggio's facercise program for about 5 and a half yrs. The reason I stuck to it was because after I did them everyday for 2 weeks, my boyfriend looked at me suspiciously and said, "You look younger."(I didn't do them in front of him). I just turned 42, and while of course it is not the fountain of youth, I think it has at least preserved my 36 yr old face... |
Well I'd say looking 36 at age 42 isn't bad! Stick with it and don't think you won't continue to see improvements throughout the years. I can't wait to try Carole's new DVD and see what new exercises she has up her sleeve! Take good care, Aprile |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:31 pm |
| Aprile - I anxiously await your appraisal of the new DVD and CD. I just got notice that it was in. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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lbrf
New Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Posts: 2
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Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:35 pm |
| Thanks, Aprile. I agree. I do think the exercises have helped! |
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:59 am |
| Hi lbrf, well if your boyfriend was frowning and looking suspicious, I recon that's proof enough welcome to EDS lovely to see you here. Hawthorn. |
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Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:45 pm |
| Just received CM's new "ultimate facercise". Played it through once already, and I can see that this one is awesome. I can also see why her lips are so full. Great DVD for those already accustomed to the beginning DVD. |
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Age 58. Facial exercise, DIY based in aloe vera and coconut oil, exercise and a sensible diet |
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