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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:06 pm  |
| skincarefreak wrote: |
| Ok, I'm lost. Is the burn considered bad thing? I understand that TheresaMary feels that way do you CM? |
Ultimately, I don't know whether it's a bad thing or good thing. I've heard convincing arguments, but also lots of urban legends, about it. I do know that lactic acid has been demonized more than it should (hardcore athletes will even measure their lactate thresholds and aim to stay below that). But for me personally, I just haven't found the burn to be a stronger indicator of either positive or negative effects, but muscle soreness the day after (which is different from the burn you feel during exercise) does correlate well for me with strength and muscle gains. So in sum, I don't know a lot about the burn, so I'm just sharing what little I know  |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:25 pm |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| skincarefreak wrote: |
| Ok, I'm lost. Is the burn considered bad thing? I understand that TheresaMary feels that way do you CM? |
Ultimately, I don't know whether it's a bad thing or good thing. I've heard convincing arguments, but also lots of urban legends, about it. I do know that lactic acid has been demonized more than it should (hardcore athletes will even measure their lactate thresholds and aim to stay below that). But for me personally, I just haven't found the burn to be a stronger indicator of either positive or negative effects, but muscle soreness the day after (which is different from the burn you feel during exercise) does correlate well for me with strength and muscle gains. So in sum, I don't know a lot about the burn, so I'm just sharing what little I know |
Thank you CM! |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:28 pm |
I do NOT think feeling a burn is a bad thing at all.
I was thinking about the Burn tonight while at the gym. I was doing very light weights on a chest machine - many reps and had a definite burn. I work for that.
Same thing when I get on the stepper - I crank up the speed and eventually get a burn in my thighs and backside. I've been exercising for years and the burn indicates that I'm putting the work in to get the results. Without it I could do walks around the block and burn a few calories but I would not get the same lift and definition.
Any well put together exercise routine I've known will have some level of burn or degree of fatigue in order to get results.
As far as Carole's exercises I feel the burn a lot on the face lifter, the NL plumper and others involving the cheek and face area. Less so in others but I think that's the nature of the area worked. The key is to have your face and mouth positioning correct - use your mind imagery and focus to get the burn feeling. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:56 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
I do NOT think feeling a burn is a bad thing at all.
I was thinking about the Burn tonight while at the gym. I was doing very light weights on a chest machine - many reps and had a definite burn. I work for that.
Same thing when I get on the stepper - I crank up the speed and eventually get a burn in my thighs and backside. I've been exercising for years and the burn indicates that I'm putting the work in to get the results. Without it I could do walks around the block and burn a few calories but I would not get the same lift and definition.
Any well put together exercise routine I've known will have some level of burn or degree of fatigue in order to get results.
As far as Carole's exercises I feel the burn a lot on the face lifter, the NL plumper and others involving the cheek and face area. Less so in others but I think that's the nature of the area worked. The key is to have your face and mouth positioning correct - use your mind imagery and focus to get the burn feeling. |
Sister Sweets makes a good point: we do know that the burn is correlated with working hard, so that's good I think the question is whether the burn is something to strive for.
Based on my own experience, in high weight, low rep, serious bodybuilding exercises, I do not think that it is the thing to strive for in this particular type of exercise. BUT I don't know if it is or isn't the thing to strive for either toning and moderate muscle building activities....maybe someone else knows. I tend to just go based on how tired my muscles feel to me at the end of an exercise...but of course, that's totally subjective |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:50 pm |
Its not that I feel that way, I'm just not sure, as the few times I've found stuff about it says its bad, but I can't find other sources suggesting its good - so I'm curious as to if there are any or if its just hype!
| skincarefreak wrote: |
| Ok, I'm lost. Is the burn considered bad thing? I understand that TheresaMary feels that way do you CM? |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:55 pm |
I'm not convinced that we do know this as fact... yes the burn is when the muscles do the lactic acid thing, but how do we know this is actually a good thing. Yes it comes when people work hard, but do we know if it comes when we're overdoing it - there doesn't seem to be actually any surefire facts about it.
I'm not so sure whether the question is to strive for the burn (but interestingly enough Aprile and Carole both say to do so), but surely if it was such a good thing then there would be medical facts to back it up and I can't see that there are any in place.
Lou doesn't seem to suggest going for the burn, neither do them lot of FlexEffect (but they never explain why)? Its just one of those odd things I'm curious about now as its written so much about.
| cm5597 wrote: |
| sister sweets wrote: |
I do NOT think feeling a burn is a bad thing at all.
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Sister Sweets makes a good point: we do know that the burn is correlated with working hard, so that's good I think the question is whether the burn is something to strive for.
Based on my own experience, in high weight, low rep, serious bodybuilding exercises, I do not think that it is the thing to strive for in this particular type of exercise. BUT I don't know if it is or isn't the thing to strive for either toning and moderate muscle building activities....maybe someone else knows. I tend to just go based on how tired my muscles feel to me at the end of an exercise...but of course, that's totally subjective |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:12 am |
Whilst its true there are some who have written honest reviews, and have reviewed other products, there are many who have only posted but one review. With Amazon's review policy, providing you have an email address, you can write a review (and you don't even have to order), and so I think people are suggesting that its quite easily possible to write stunning reviews about a product and for them all to be by one person. Not saying this is Carole, as I truly don't believe she would do that, but I'm not so sure that I believe that followers of the program who are getting results wouldn't want to encourage others to try the program by any means possible.
Interesting re the Japan comment. I know Critic etc said that they didn't rate the program and it makes me wonder whether its sutiable for all people, maybe they could come on board and give their opinions also? |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:41 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Its not that I feel that way, I'm just not sure, as the few times I've found stuff about it says its bad, but I can't find other sources suggesting its good - so I'm curious as to if there are any or if its just hype!
| skincarefreak wrote: |
| Ok, I'm lost. Is the burn considered bad thing? I understand that TheresaMary feels that way do you CM? |
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I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was trying to find out if it was detrimental for the skin in the long run as well. It just came out wrong. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:16 am |
| No probs, your thinking along the same lines as me anyhow (but I'm wondering if its good for the face muscles etc) as well as skin. No one seems to be able to provide any proof of it either way so I'm guessing its merely legend not fact. |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:14 am |
Got Carole's newsletter and wanted to do a little boogie dance when I read it! Text below but go Carole!!!!!
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There have been many discussions regarding the safety and efficacy of facial exercises. One such discussion involved New York dermatologist, Dr. Neal Schultz, who claims that facial exercises will eventually stretch and damage the skin. According to Dr. Schultz, the skin only has a certain amount of stretches and eventually all of those stretches will break the collagen and elastic bands in the skin. He contends that facial exercises do more harm than good. I find it interesting that Dr. Schultz, who is a dermatologist, would even suggest that facial movement or stretching is the main cause of wrinkling and sagging since everyone knows that UV overexposure is the main contributory factor to premature wrinkling and sagging of the skin. The fact that he also mentions that the skin has only a certain number of stretches before it breaks the collagen and elastin is also ridiculous. There was a study performed by the Lancôme Marketing Research Institute that concluded that we perform somewhere in the neighborhood of 15,000 facial movements in a single day. If we followed Dr. Schultz’s’ logic, by age 50, we should all look like Methuselah without make-up and he was reportedly 969 years old when he cashed in his chips.
In 2007, there was a study performed by the Japanese Society for Investigative Dermatology. It should be noted that the Journal produced by the JSID serves as an international forum for the work of all dermatological scientists. The purpose of the study was to determine the relationship between decreased elasticity in the skin and the formation of wrinkles. The study involved females from Tokyo, Japan aged 18 to 76 years old. The method used for measuring skin elasticity at the corner of each participant’s eye was a Cutometer SEM575™. Wrinkle levels at the corner of the eye were determined from three-dimensional analysis of surface replicas. The study compared both elasticity and skin roughness. The results of the study were very interesting when comparing the three age groups ~ the young group (18-29); the medium group (30-4 , and the older group (50-76). Elasticity parameters were compared and there was a significant difference between the young and the medium group, as well as between the medium and the older group. However, when comparing the roughness of the skin, the most significant difference was found between the medium and the older group.
These results suggest that changes in skin roughness values lags about 20 years behind changes in skin elasticity values. This would suggest that, despite a strong relationship, elasticity parameters are unlikely to be an independent predictor of wrinkle levels. The amount of UV exposure to skin with decreased elasticity seems to be the most important variable that determines wrinkle levels. This information furthers the case that normal everyday facial movements, or movements from facial exercise, do not increase facial wrinkles; the amount of UV exposure seems to be the main predictor of skin wrinkling.
Likewise, Paula Begoun, author and syndicated columnist, shares similar views to Dr. Schultz. Paula recently made claims on her website that: “I am completely bewildered by the enthusiasm facial exercises seem to generate. I get swarms of letters from women telling me that I have my non-exercised head screwed on wrong when I suggest that facial exercises don't work. But is there any research that explains the mania surrounding all this stretching of the face muscles?” She went on to say that, “Facial exercise is not helpful for worn out collagen, elastin, or the skin's fat layer, because none of that is about the muscles. It is especially not helpful for the lines caused by facial movement! Instead, facial exercises only make those areas appear more lined. The reason Botox injections into the muscles of the forehead and facial lines work to create a smoother face is because Botox prevents the muscles from moving.”
The fact that Paula, whose only real tie to the skin care industry is as a former make-up artist, would make such a comment that muscles are not important is also baffling to me. She is clearly missing the point here. Paula is not a doctor but Dr. Oz and Dr. Perricone are medical doctors and they both endorse facial exercises as helpful in firming and toning facial features. Building and firming muscles via facial exercise does not replace worn out collagen, elastin or the skin’s fat layer, it compensates for those losses by creating more volume and filling out the face and therefore smoothing the fine lines and wrinkles.
In addition, building muscles that are directly attached into the skin will lift the skin because the skin has no choice but to follow. I find it interesting that she would recommend Botox as a cure for aging skin. Pumping the face with a toxin will not address loss of volume or lack of elasticity. You need to address the underlying problem, which is lack of muscle tone and volume loss. She then attacks something natural like facial exercise and wonders where the studies are to prove it works. I would like to counter that comment with where are all the studies to confirm that Botox is effective and safe for long-term use? We really do not know the systemic effects, not to mention what all of that needling will eventually do to the skin. Suffice it to say, we don’t need studies to prove that exercise works. We already know that exercising the body works to tone and build muscles and lifts the skin of the body; the same principle applies to the face.
Contrary to what Paula states, Dermatologist, Dr. Nicholas Perricone, shares Dr. Oz’s viewpoint regarding facial exercises. On his Blog Page, MD Perricone, he states that, “If your skin has already begun to lose its tone and elasticity, natural face lift options are available.” Dr. Perricone states that, in fact, there are several ways to firm up your skin and that some of the best ways involve natural remedies such as proper diet and nutrition, taking supplements and getting and plenty of exercise. But Dr. Perricone wasn’t only referring to working the muscles of your body. He stated that, “Exercise is one of the most important practices to maintain for firming your skin. Exercise will help circulation which ultimately results in skin remaining firm and toned.” Dr. Perricone sums it up succinctly by stating, "Simple facial exercises are great for tightening the skin of the face."
SO KEEP FACERCISING, EVERYONE. DOCTOR'S ORDERS. |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:28 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Got Carole's newsletter and wanted to do a little boogie dance when I read it! Text below but go Carole!!!!!
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In addition, building muscles that are directly attached into the skin will lift the skin because the skin has no choice but to follow. I find it interesting that she would recommend Botox as a cure for aging skin. Pumping the face with a toxin will not address loss of volume or lack of elasticity. You need to address the underlying problem, which is lack of muscle tone and volume loss. She then attacks something natural like facial exercise and wonders where the studies are to prove it works. I would like to counter that comment with where are all the studies to confirm that Botox is effective and safe for long-term use? We really do not know the systemic effects, not to mention what all of that needling will eventually do to the skin. Suffice it to say, we don’t need studies to prove that exercise works. We already know that exercising the body works to tone and build muscles and lifts the skin of the body; the same principle applies to the face.
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I've read that too! This part jumps out the most for me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If Paula Begoun is questioning facial exercises because there are no studies to show the effects of them in the long run...Where are the studies that show the effects of Botox in the long run?
Another thing for me, is that paralyzing a muscle in order for it to stop aging just seems so unnatural. That was not the way we were made to begin with. We have muscles in our face for a reason. |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:18 pm |
| I don't know why or how Paula Begoun impresses anyone. She has no credentials; she got on the bandwagon at a good time. There are many on EDS who have better credentials and give more timely advice. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:12 am |
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to ask if anyone has had much success with Carole's corner lip lift? I try to keep up with it, but then slack off. Is this worth persisting with, as my lips really need a lift to the corners,
many thanks
Jackie xx |
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Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:14 am |
Hi Jackie - I am doing these exercises - lip lift included and my impression is this one may take a little longer to see residual ongoing results.
I suggest also making a conscious effort to "hold your face" in a position that looks positive - meaning a gentle lift on the sides of the face around the mouth and lips - not a smile but a feeling of gentle lift - this gives your mouth a more natural up-turned look and the overall face looks younger.
You have to think about this one but it's something I do and it's a form of training in itself. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:28 pm |
| I just heard that Carole's got a new book coming out soon on the Ultimate Facercise. I hope this will cover some of our questions!!! |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:43 pm |
| Oh Cool. I didn't know that. I am really enjoying her 8 minute set. I can't say I have questions necessarily but I can always learn something. I hope anyone who gets it will provide feeback...that's great. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:13 am |
I've been using the Ultimate Facercise DVD for over 2 wks now and I can see a difference. My b/f even stated that I look younger!
I had started FE a year ago with Ageless however, felt like it wasn't doing much good for my face other than my cheeks after a year in so, I stopped and got the Ultimate Facercise. I think the facercise program is very good. My face does look fuller, my jowls (starting to sag) look higher and the line in between my brows is better. I'll continue and report back. TheresaMary, where did you find out about the book? I think that's great for those who don't want to purchase the DVD. |
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Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:14 am |
| Jackie284 wrote: |
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to ask if anyone has had much success with Carole's corner lip lift? I try to keep up with it, but then slack off. Is this worth persisting with, as my lips really need a lift to the corners,
many thanks
Jackie xx |
Jackie,
How are doing now with the lip lift? |
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Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:14 am |
Its the audio link that came with her newsletter, where Carole's talking and does her greeting and then mentions the book. Maybe Aprile will know more perhaps?
| skincarefreak wrote: |
I've been using the Ultimate Facercise DVD for over 2 wks now and I can see a difference. My b/f even stated that I look younger!
I had started FE a year ago with Ageless however, felt like it wasn't doing much good for my face other than my cheeks after a year in so, I stopped and got the Ultimate Facercise. I think the facercise program is very good. My face does look fuller, my jowls (starting to sag) look higher and the line in between my brows is better. I'll continue and report back. TheresaMary, where did you find out about the book? I think that's great for those who don't want to purchase the DVD. |
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Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:39 pm |
| I'm mainly into lips. What I don't get is why has the lip exercise changed? I have the 1995 book, and I just bought the newest incarnation, Ultimate Facercise (the DVD). The lip exercise is totally different than the book. It now involves curling the lip into the teeth. This seems like it would thin the lip. It's totally different than the original exercise. Has anyone tried the old and new lip exercise and can see different results? |
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Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:07 pm |
| lipper wrote: |
| I'm mainly into lips. What I don't get is why has the lip exercise changed? I have the 1995 book, and I just bought the newest incarnation, Ultimate Facercise (the DVD). The lip exercise is totally different than the book. It now involves curling the lip into the teeth. This seems like it would thin the lip. It's totally different than the original exercise. Has anyone tried the old and new lip exercise and can see different results? |
Which lip exercise are you referring to? I think she had two in the book I had... |
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Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:50 pm |
| I do not have the 1995 version but very interested as to what it was and anyone's opinion. I actually like the one on the ultimate facercise where you curl it under and bring out the balls (that part I don't quite get but it does seem to do something for me). I love the energy work. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:02 pm |
| I actually have the 2002 book. I don't know if the exercises are the same as in the 1995. |
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Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:35 am |
Sis I think has gotten great results from the new lip exercise. I don't think the new one thins the lips, but it gets them pumped so to speak. I have all her books and the latest dvd, and the lips have always been an exercise I can do easily. When your doing the balls, I think it somehow intensifies the lips. Which is why she said you feel it going numb or burning.
| lipper wrote: |
| I'm mainly into lips. What I don't get is why has the lip exercise changed? I have the 1995 book, and I just bought the newest incarnation, Ultimate Facercise (the DVD). The lip exercise is totally different than the book. It now involves curling the lip into the teeth. This seems like it would thin the lip. It's totally different than the original exercise. Has anyone tried the old and new lip exercise and can see different results? |
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Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:13 am |
| skincarefreak wrote: |
| lipper wrote: |
| I'm mainly into lips. What I don't get is why has the lip exercise changed? I have the 1995 book, and I just bought the newest incarnation, Ultimate Facercise (the DVD). The lip exercise is totally different than the book. It now involves curling the lip into the teeth. This seems like it would thin the lip. It's totally different than the original exercise. Has anyone tried the old and new lip exercise and can see different results? |
Which lip exercise are you referring to? I think she had two in the book I had... |
yes there were 2 in the book. There is only one on ultimate facercise. |
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