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Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:22 pm |
Just to let you know that Steve from LightStim is receiving emails now advertising green tea cream. So now you know what this study is truly about: selling their green tea products. I told him that the strategy wouldn't work because the ladies on EDS are queens of DIYs. We'll just buy the cheap green tea extract and make our own serum/cream! |
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Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:09 pm |
Hello to everyone here! I just discovered this thread and it came at a great time. I have been on the fence about buying a LED system and while there is alot of information out there, you guys really do alot of research and share great information. Thank you all so much!!! It is really going to help with the decision process.
Plus, I really love the DIY recipes (I'm totally in for trying them all ) |
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Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:08 pm |
ricayhermosa wrote: |
Just to let you know that Steve from LightStim is receiving emails now advertising green tea cream. So now you know what this study is truly about: selling their green tea products. I told him that the strategy wouldn't work because the ladies on EDS are queens of DIYs. We'll just buy the cheap green tea extract and make our own serum/cream! |
The researchers of the various studies mentioned in this thread are associated with the following institutions:
Andrei P. Sommer and Dan Zhu
Institute of Micro and Nanomaterials, University of Ulm, 89081 Ulm, Germany
Schroeder P, Lademann J, Darwin ME, Stege H, Marks C, Brunke S, Krutmann J
Cell Biology/Molecular Ageing Research, Institut fuer Umweltmedizinische Forchung, Heinrich-Heine-University, Desseldorf gGmbH, Duesseldorf, Germany
Frank Pajonk1 , Anja Riedisser2 , Michael Henke2 , William H McBride1 and Bernd Fiebich3
1Department of Radiation Oncology, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1714, USA
2Department of Radiation Oncology, University Hospital of Freiburg, Germany
3Department of Psychiatry, University Hospital of Freiburg, Germany
I don't believe any of these researchers are interested in selling any green tea products to LED users. |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:46 pm |
Lacy53 wrote: |
ricayhermosa wrote: |
Just to let you know that Steve from LightStim is receiving emails now advertising green tea cream. So now you know what this study is truly about: selling their green tea products. I told him that the strategy wouldn't work because the ladies on EDS are queens of DIYs. We'll just buy the cheap green tea extract and make our own serum/cream! |
The researchers of the various studies mentioned in this thread are associated with the following institutions:
Andrei P. Sommer and Dan Zhu
Institute of Micro and Nanomaterials, University of Ulm, 89081 Ulm, Germany
Schroeder P, Lademann J, Darwin ME, Stege H, Marks C, Brunke S, Krutmann J
Cell Biology/Molecular Ageing Research, Institut fuer Umweltmedizinische Forchung, Heinrich-Heine-University, Desseldorf gGmbH, Duesseldorf, Germany
Frank Pajonk1 , Anja Riedisser2 , Michael Henke2 , William H McBride1 and Bernd Fiebich3
1Department of Radiation Oncology, David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1714, USA
2Department of Radiation Oncology, University Hospital of Freiburg, Germany
3Department of Psychiatry, University Hospital of Freiburg, Germany
I don't believe any of these researchers are interested in selling any green tea products to LED users. |
Lacy53 makes a good point. The researchers associated with these numerous studies are not going to be interested in selling green tea products.
I find it a little strange that this study has been around for a little while now, and supposedly now this person is receiving emails advertising green tea products. |
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Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:14 am |
maxon782 wrote: |
I find it a little strange that this study has been around for a little while now, and supposedly now this person is receiving emails advertising green tea products. |
Yes, I agree. Seems like yet another marketing ploy to me (especially reading somewhere on here that he (steve) would now be looking to sell a green tea product. |
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Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:36 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
I think the operative word here is "high". As Steve from Lightstim pointed out, none of the home devices we are using are operating at these high levels. |
But what about the Omnilux? Here is what the 20 minute treatment protocol found in the study;
The Omnilux Revive (TM) and Omnilux Plus (TM) were used. The one delivers noncoherent but quasimonochromatic red light at a wavelength of 633 nm and an intensity of 105 mW/cm 2 for a total of 126 J/cm 2 after 20 minutes of exposure. The other light-head delivers noncoherent light at a wavelength of 830 nm and 55 mW/cm 2 intensity for a total dose of 66 J/cm 2 after 20 minutes exposure
The handheld does the exact same thing to every area treated.. I know little or nothing about joules, but isn't "126" and "66" respectively, way too much? (LS, PL and BQ are in the "8" J/cm 2 neighborhood right?)
I hope I'm not going to wind up doing more harm than good with this.. Maybe I should just use the "red", and lay off the "IR"?
Also what I found interesting in the study was the 9 treatments were comprised of 6 IR and 3 Red...Wonder why. |
Here is Steve's response to the question of the LED's intensity and the safety issue of our home-use devices:
Hello ladies, gentlemen and manufacturers of the EDS forum. I am joining in on this thread to just give you a couple of the many things wrong with this study. I have included the full study and the MACHINE that was used in the study for your comparison to your LED devices, regardless of what manufacturer you bought from or are thinking about buying from. My statements will have nothing to do with LightStim, as LightStim is not the issue.
These articles and the study were designed as an outright attack on LED Lights using the 833nm or 850nm wavelength Infrared LEDs, which are used in consumer devices. You will see more studies of this type on other wavelengths as time goes on. This study was about going to an extreme, never even envisioned by any of the LED Light Manufacturers, to show some possibility of a negative reaction. The next paragraph will show you just how far they were willing to go.
All LEDs lights that are sold to the public have 1 or 2 SPECIFIC wavelengths, not the FULL RANGE OF 700 to 1440nm all at once. All LED's lights that are sold to the public put out less than 10 watts and less than 12 joules. All LED lights sold to the public have a per location treatment time of 1 to 10 minutes, except Omnilux at 20 minutes. The study used a water cooled MACHINE, it is not a device- it is a machine, and it puts out 360 to 720 Joules and 520 watts!!!! And according to the study they applied it for 57 to 114 minutes and they applied ALL of the wavelengths from 760 to 1440nm. No manufacturer I know of uses above 980nm in a device sold to the public. With that many Joules and Watts I'm surprised nobody was hurt!
This is so irresponsible that a one paragraph totally misleading article was put on the internet. When you look at the above statistics and you look at the machine they used in the test, this would be likened to this: A number of manufacturers put out similarly effective sleeping pills that has a dosage of 1 pill per night and is taken by 5 million people over a 20 year period with not a single instance of someone being harmed. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:42 am |
Keliu wrote: |
Kassy_A wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
I think the operative word here is "high". As Steve from Lightstim pointed out, none of the home devices we are using are operating at these high levels. |
But what about the Omnilux? Here is what the 20 minute treatment protocol found in the study;
The Omnilux Revive (TM) and Omnilux Plus (TM) were used. The one delivers noncoherent but quasimonochromatic red light at a wavelength of 633 nm and an intensity of 105 mW/cm 2 for a total of 126 J/cm 2 after 20 minutes of exposure. The other light-head delivers noncoherent light at a wavelength of 830 nm and 55 mW/cm 2 intensity for a total dose of 66 J/cm 2 after 20 minutes exposure
The handheld does the exact same thing to every area treated.. I know little or nothing about joules, but isn't "126" and "66" respectively, way too much? (LS, PL and BQ are in the "8" J/cm 2 neighborhood right?)
I hope I'm not going to wind up doing more harm than good with this.. Maybe I should just use the "red", and lay off the "IR"?
Also what I found interesting in the study was the 9 treatments were comprised of 6 IR and 3 Red...Wonder why. |
Here is Steve's response to the question of the LED's intensity and the safety issue of our home-use devices:
Hello ladies, gentlemen and manufacturers of the EDS forum. I am joining in on this thread to just give you a couple of the many things wrong with this study. I have included the full study and the MACHINE that was used in the study for your comparison to your LED devices, regardless of what manufacturer you bought from or are thinking about buying from. My statements will have nothing to do with LightStim, as LightStim is not the issue.
These articles and the study were designed as an outright attack on LED Lights using the 833nm or 850nm wavelength Infrared LEDs, which are used in consumer devices. You will see more studies of this type on other wavelengths as time goes on. This study was about going to an extreme, never even envisioned by any of the LED Light Manufacturers, to show some possibility of a negative reaction. The next paragraph will show you just how far they were willing to go.
All LEDs lights that are sold to the public have 1 or 2 SPECIFIC wavelengths, not the FULL RANGE OF 700 to 1440nm all at once. All LED's lights that are sold to the public put out less than 10 watts and less than 12 joules. All LED lights sold to the public have a per location treatment time of 1 to 10 minutes, except Omnilux at 20 minutes. The study used a water cooled MACHINE, it is not a device- it is a machine, and it puts out 360 to 720 Joules and 520 watts!!!! And according to the study they applied it for 57 to 114 minutes and they applied ALL of the wavelengths from 760 to 1440nm. No manufacturer I know of uses above 980nm in a device sold to the public. With that many Joules and Watts I'm surprised nobody was hurt!
This is so irresponsible that a one paragraph totally misleading article was put on the internet. When you look at the above statistics and you look at the machine they used in the test, this would be likened to this: A number of manufacturers put out similarly effective sleeping pills that has a dosage of 1 pill per night and is taken by 5 million people over a 20 year period with not a single instance of someone being harmed. |
Thanks for posting this Keliu.
I agree with everything Steve says, except for one thing.
The statement that ‘All LED's lights that are sold to the public put out less than 10 watts and less than 12 joules ’ is not exactly true.
You can state that a certain LED has an X amount of output in mW per diode, per cm2 or in total.
But you cannot state that a certain LED puts out less than 12 joules.
The amount of joules an LED delivers depends on the output power + treatment time.
If , for example, Prolight Red delivers 4-9 joules per 30 seconds it would deliver 8-18 joules per 60 seconds, etc.
If the Omnilux delivers 126 joules per 20 minutes, it would deliver 12,6 joules per 2 minutes.
If the numbers on the LS website are correct, then a simple calculation shows that the AALS must have a higher output than for example PL Red.
Then, if the PL Red delivers 24-54 joules in 3 minutes, then the AALS would at least deliver about the same amount of joules in 3 minutes, if not more (which, by the way, would be a GOOD thing).
If I happen to be wrong in my conclusion, I give up. |
_________________ male, 45, sensitive skin, broken caps, some hyperpigmentation |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:30 pm |
Hi Kassy, I just made your green tea pretreatment serum for the led. Is this amount for more than one use? I hope so. If so, how do I store the rest of it? Thank you. I appreciate all of your wonderful advice. |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:57 pm |
That's amazing, could very well not only a healthier alternative to bot ox, but very well put it out of business. |
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Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:53 am |
This topic was mentioned yesterday on the New Beauty blog! |
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Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:19 pm |
Just wanted to share some pictures after using the Warp 10 and white tea for two weeks. Even taking into consideration lighting and angle of my neck, I think I'm beginning to see some improvement.
BEFORE:
WEEK 1:
WEEK 2:
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Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:26 pm |
Wow Skippie, I think you've definitely got some improvement going on! And only two weeks at that!
It appears to me that the lines on your neck are softening and shortening (if that makes sense!) It's going to be interesting to see your results further down the line.
Thanks also for posting your pictures! Seeing is believing for me. Take care. |
_________________ 50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:35 am |
Considering it's only been 2 weeks, that's a huge improvement. Have you had similar results facially? |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:46 am |
I definitely am noticing changes around my mouth. It seems to be adding volume to my lips. Overall, I'm very happy with what I'm seeing. This is the first thing I've ever tried (skincare, gadget, exercise, etc.) that has made a difference, other than superficially. Here are some pictures of my mouth area:
BEFORE:
WEEK 1:
WEEK 2:
And BTW, I'm 49 years old. |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:33 am |
Skippie wrote: |
Overall, I'm very happy with what I'm seeing. This is the first thing I've ever tried (skincare, gadget, exercise, etc.) that has made a difference, other than superficially. |
Well done Skippie, you must be so pleased with your results.
Can I ask which other gadgets you have tried using? Any other LED's? |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:41 am |
I am waiting for the green tea extract to arrive to make Kassy's LED serum and I was wondering if I could use green tea that I have brewed. What do you think? Would it work or should I wait. |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:47 am |
Skippie! WooHoo for YOU! Fabulous results. I'm also interested in other "things" you've tried. Thank you for posting your pictures. |
_________________ 65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:08 am |
Quote: |
I am waiting for the green tea extract to arrive to make Kassy's LED serum and I was wondering if I could use green tea that I have brewed. What do you think? Would it work or should I wait. |
The white tea I'm using is brewed from tea bags. So, yes, I think brewing green tea would work just fine.
Miranda and Mars,
Some things I have tried: Prolight Platinum, Nutritone, Prolight Galvanic/Ultrasound device (love it for cleaning my pores), FlexEffect exercises, Ageless exercises, Clarisonic, various and sundry skincare lines and products. I have seen some temporary and superficial improvements with some of these but nothing like I'm seeing in the two weeks I've been using the Warp 10. I have been using the Warp 10 everyday as they did in the study, so maybe that is making the difference. |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:28 pm |
Excellent results! Is there a difference in using the Green and/or White tea? |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:54 pm |
I appreciate your reply, skippie. Thank you. |
_________________ 65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:51 pm |
Thanks Skippy, I will try both the green and white tea. I have tried white tea yet. What you recommended from Starbucks sounds wonderful. |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:27 pm |
Skippie,
I think you're having amazing results! Your skin looks absolutely flawless and YES I can see the fullness in your lips!!
Can't wait to see results in another two weeks!
I may have to look into one of these. Just have to save my $$$. |
_________________ 50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:30 pm |
Skippie, I definitely see the fullness in the lips in your 2 week pictures! Looking good. I will be very interested to see your results after even more time!
How long are you using the WARP for per area? |
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Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:03 pm |
Yay Skippie! You've had lovely results in just two weeks.
Your skin is absolutely beautiful, and I see some nice plumping in your lower face + lips.
Thanks for sharing your pictures, which really are worth a thousand words... |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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