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oranges
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:03 am      Reply with quote
talyta wrote:
avogrape wrote:
I saw some Giovanni shamppo and conditioner which I waanted to try but I'm a Lush hair care addict. Anyone tried Giovanni?


I tried body lotion and wasn't very impressed with it - not moisturizing at all


Darn it I ordered some from vitacost and it's on delivery. I ordered the body butter and the special detox with gogo and acai berry.
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:12 am      Reply with quote
Zverenok,

I order Dr.Alkaitis shampoo via the net (it is $35.00, so not cheap but very concentrated).

John Masters I buy from Whole Foods.

Leave-in Conditioner I ordered from amazon (it was about $15.00) and it is a light spray, so it does not weigh the hair down. I could not use any other leave-in conditioners.


HTH

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septemberamethyst
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:22 am      Reply with quote
I think that despite what the front label says, it's best to read the ingredient list to tell what's really in the product.

As far as "natural" goes, the FDA does not have an official definition for “natural” products, and any references to natural through the FDA are in direct relation to food, not cosmetics. Additionally, there is no certification or regulation for using the term “natural.” This means that any manufacturer can call its product(s) "natural," despite what the ingredients in the product(s) are.

And interesting article on on organic versus natural is in the Feb 2009 issue of Skin Inc. magazine. The article is available online if you google the phrase natural vs organic or if you look up Skin Inc.
taterbugpbj
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Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:34 am      Reply with quote
If you really want to know the nitty, gritty about a product, just go to this site, Enviromental Working Group.com, or EWG.com. You can look up the safety and "nature" of almost evrything.

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Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:13 am      Reply with quote
Ladies - good points.

I also look at the recommendation of RAW foodists, since they usually do very detailed research and have more stringent rules.

I rarely buy cosmetics in WF, since many just pretend to be natural.

HTH

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Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:35 pm      Reply with quote
I had a very good leave-in conditioner from Aubrey's - that really is the only thing I could use from this brand.

I currently use Kenra, and my problem with leave ins is that they don't condition enough for me - like I said my hair is fine, and long, so I need a conditioner to wash off so that I can brush my hair without ripping it.
DarkMoon
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Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:13 pm      Reply with quote
septemberamethyst,

The FDA doesn't really mean much even when it comes to food, unless it is a man made substance it is natural.
Organic on the other hand is a better barometer of what is in the products in general. We as consumers need to read labels, and research ingredients before using, too many people seem to just take the NATURAL labeling as meaning it is actually a better product. The sites listed above are excellent sources of information on ingredients!

DM

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Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:28 pm      Reply with quote
taterbugpbj wrote:
If you really want to know the nitty, gritty about a product, just go to this site, Enviromental Working Group.com, or EWG.com. You can look up the safety and "nature" of almost evrything.


Beware that many, many products have warnings according to the EWG. For example, I don't think any sunscreens are approved by them.
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Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:38 pm      Reply with quote
The last time I checked there were a few sunscreens that they approve, and I trust EWG! They spend a lot of time and money fully testing all of these products for their safety and they provide full disclosure! I HIGHLY recommend the EWG site.

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vanbergc
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Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:17 pm      Reply with quote
EWG doesn't test anything. They look at a product's list of ingredients, and if an ingredient is on their "no-list", they deduct points. I don't give them much credence anymore.

Shampoos are hard. There are NO natural shampoos I'll use.

For skin care I use MyChelle, Devita, and Skin Organics. These have modern anti-aging ingredients. The rest I leave behind.
DarkMoon
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:36 am      Reply with quote
vanbergc,
I think as with any site they give you the good as well as the bad, we as consumers need to weigh risk vs benefit. There aren't too many sites where you can find detailed info on all aspects of ingredients. We have to research from different sources and make educated choices.

sigma,
As to the Natural/Organic brands at WF I don't think it is a matter of pretending to be natural or organic, most list the percent ie: 98% organic. Unless you wish to make your own DIY recipes some form of preservative must be used. As to SLS some add it as people can't seem to get used to the lower foam factor, but they carry SLS free products as well, the same is true for brands found in most any health food store.

IMHO
DM

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taterbugpbj
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:13 pm      Reply with quote
vanbergc

Corrected once again by VANBERGC!!Well, thanks for once again clearing up my confusion. Maybe I can blame it on my 16 onth old...nah! That would be too easy. Just didn't have time to read all the details on EWG, just know a lot of people who I personally trust, have recommended the site to me and I was able to personally go on the site and see the ingredients in different products that I could not previously find ingredient lists on. So THAT is EXTREMELY helpful to me!!!! The safety rating of each ingredient is VERY helpful as well.
I didn't realize this site was heavily "policed" or I would have chosen my words carefully and done my research....Just Kidding!
I still love EWG! Smile

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Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:36 pm      Reply with quote
taterbugpbj,
I am hearing you loud and clear, I
raised 4 now grown kids now 29, 25, 24, 20 well can you say way before the wide availability of the Internet! I did massive reading from many sources and even then found a lot who thought outside the box and had to make choices some may have thought were overboard, a lot of those ideas have now become mainstream thinking. I had 3 out of 4 babies born at home. Never let petroleum products touch myself while pregnant, or used them on my kids. Talc as well never used any horrid for respiratory system, corn starch a much better option. Don't want to go on but breastfed on demand longest was 22 months but all longer than the 6 months of most. I will stop rambling on now, but just second the need to educate oneself, and err on the side of caution especially when it comes to our most precious cargo! Kudos to you for doing the best for your darling baby! Enjoy they grow up too fast! Very Happy
All my best
DM

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sigma
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:28 pm      Reply with quote
DarkMoon,

In general I agree with you, but ....

Not all preservatives are created equal, and while some (like Potassium Sorbate) are perfectly OK, there are others that are quite dangerous. When one finds them in "supposedly" natural products it does not instill much confidence.

We should always read labels and be educated consumers.

Also, even being 100% organic is not a guarantee.

For example, imagine the organic farmer growing perfectly organic produce, while unknown to him there is a small factory 300 miles upstream where by accident some chemicals got into ground waters...

That is actually the story told by Dr.Marshall - he was offered some supplies and when tested discovered it to be heavily contaminated, despite the perfectly good farming techniques. They got intrigued, did their research and found the cause.

Just an interesting case.

BTW, I still like Real Purity makeup to my own surprise.

HTH

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taterbugpbj
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:46 pm      Reply with quote
In my case. Buying organice and watching out for certain ingredients is the best that I can do right now. I have a crazy busy schedule. That tid bit about the organic farmer is good to know but who takes the time to research each organic material used and exactly where it is grown, and if there was some chemical accident upstream or a chemical accident 100 years ago for that matter? When you look at the bigger picture, everything is basically tainted in some way. Our atmospheres are shared with the world so there is no control over that.
I am sorry, I do not get the point of all of this nit picking! It is pointLESS! It seems like some folks here are just trying to get in the last word or something.
That is just not my thing, I don't have time for it.
If you want something truly wholsome (in your way)...plant it yourself and make it yourself. I don't have the land to do that right now, but I will in the future, in the mean time. Some of you seem to be arguing points only to yourselves.

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DarkMoon
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:00 pm      Reply with quote
I am not trying to argue any points, even our air isn't fit to breath so all we can do is look at the lables and avoid as much of the really bad stuff. We just do the best we can, and make educated choices on the products we buy!

I know about being crazy busy taking care of dying father, bedridden ect. Plus youngest daughter still living at home my hands are pretty full.

DM

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taterbugpbj
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:45 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry Darkmoon. I didn't think that you were arguing, I didn't mean to imply it. I was referring to some other folks here. Sorry to hear you are dealing with such difficulties. I can't imagine. Sending healing thoughts your way!

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Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:53 pm      Reply with quote
taterbugpbj,
No worries and thanks for the good thoughts! There is something in the air today, maybe a full moon LOL,
Hope everyone calms down, we as adults need to agree to disagree politely?

DM

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sigma
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Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:58 pm      Reply with quote
Taterbugpbj,

all I was trying to say that one should not rely on the "organic" label or the fact that it is being sold in Health Food store - that good common sense should be exercised and the label with the actual ingredients needs to be read, and analysed.

I most certainly with 10 hours a day job and family have no time to research every ingredient or farmer that produced it.

However, one of the beauties of Dr. Marshall's approach that you can determine if the product is good and whether it is good for you via QRA test within 2 seconds.

I mistakenly thought that I was sharing the knowledge, and apparently ended up wasting people's time.

My sincere apologies.

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Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:50 pm      Reply with quote
sigma,

I honestly do not think anyone is waisting any one's time by a simple exchange of opinions, even if we have differing opinions. We can all learn from the experiences of others! As I said above as adults we can agree to disagree in a polite manner.
You are very fond of Dr. Marshal, I respect that and am sure he gets excellent results. I personally am quite impressed by Jordon Rubin, author of Patient Heal Thy Self as well as The Makers Diet. He cured himself of Crohn's disease which I know first hand is considered incurable by standard medicine. Now I would wager their approaches are completely different and may well be contradictory, however they both get results!
I just see a lot of conflict taking place on the forum where none is needed. We should respect each others right to have a different opinion than our own. I hope this all calms down, and cooler heads prevail.
All my best to all
Rona

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vanbergc
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:10 am      Reply with quote
"Corrected once again by VANBERGC!!"

Wow...where the heck did that come from? I don't even know you. And I didn't correct anybody, nor do I POLICE anybody. You're a bit defensive I'd say. Everything I say here is my personal opinion. That's okay isn't it, to have an opinion different from yours? And last time I checked, EWG doesn't do any testing. I stand by that fact.


I've been a consumer for far too long. I've been going to the EWG site since they started, and over time I've realized they don't serve MY best interest. I have educated myself on ingredients and can make my own decisions, which I do. At this juncture in my life, I choose not to let EWG unnecessarily influence my choice of skincare. I believe I still make wise choices because I study until I understand.

I still can't believe someone was offended by me. That's just crazy.
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:57 pm      Reply with quote
On the topic of natural skincare products:

I'm really interested in this subject because I too have been trying to use only safe, natural products for myself and my family. Like Darkmoon, I started this quest many years ago before the internet, and it was tough finding information. I wanted to protect my children by feeding them only organic food, using no chemicals on their bodies or in the house, etc. It worked. My kids didn't get ear and respiratory infections like all the other kids in the family, no cavities either.

But there's always room for improvement. I'd like to know more about this Dr. Marshall that Sigma mentioned. Where can I read about his experiments? And where did you find the info about which preservatives are chemical, but safe?

I ask because in my quest for the all-natural, I've discovered that even the best quality products can become unsafe without preservatives. Oils can go rancid and produce free radicals--not something you want to slather on your body! (I had an unopened bottle of pure Jojoba oil turn nasty after spending only one summer in a bathroom cabinet.)

Also, toxic molds and bacteria can grow in some all-natural products. I wanted to sample a hand lotion in a health food store one day, but noticed it had spoiled. There was fur growing inside and the stench was unbearable. (It had only Vitamin E Tocopherols as a preservative.)

To answer the original question, I like Shikai brand products which are easy to find in health food stores and some mainstream drugstores. (My face won't tolerate natural products, but my body will.) My favorite is their cucumber hand & body lotion. The bottle says "all natural" and I can see that there aren't any parabens, but there are some questionable ingredients at the end of the list. I'm willing to compromise on that because this product never goes rancid or spoils no matter how long I keep it.

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Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:06 pm      Reply with quote
A'kin and Eleusian both Australian products, gee I like alot of my countrys home made skincare, didnt really relise until I started posting Laughing
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:56 pm      Reply with quote
sigma wrote:
Actually, I bought a few books by Tonya Zavasta (www.beautifulonraw.com) and am currently using her cream and mask. Then I found the references to the cosmetics and ordered a few samples, loved them and placed an order for full sizes.

The website is www.realpurity.com.

HTH


Sigma,

You mentioned that you are using Tonya's cream and mask. I am curious how do you like it? I bought her cream a while ago and have been using it for about a month now. But I am not sure it has done much to my skin. I would like to hear some feedback from other people who have used it longer that I do. Also how is the mask?
Thank you,
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:50 pm      Reply with quote
I am curious as to Real Purity they list this on the site so we don't know what is in the products?

PRESERVATIVES - Real Purity® uses only plant derived ingredients for preservatives. They are proparatory to Real Purity®.

I like a company that gives full disclosure as to ingredients, they usually don't give out the exact percentages to keep their formula secret, but a full list is what I find with most brands.
Plants can like most anything cause adverse and even allergic reactions.

IMHO
DM

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