Starting Face Exercise
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Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:59 pm

Hello ! I am 23 and noticed that within the past three years my eyelids became dramatically hooded. I want to start face work out but I was told it can overbuild the face and actually make things worse ; I would like to start a face training program that would help my face look my age but not an overly *aggressive* program though ; do you have any advice to give me please ?

Also I wanted to know if you could explain the difference between isometric training and resistance training ?

Sorry if that was bad English, I'm still learning it !

Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:54 pm

Hi Anika, Here is a link to the main facial exercise discussion threads (Flex Effect, Ageless, Carole Maggio, etc.) on EDS: www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=474344#474344

Hope that helps. Smile

free skin care · Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:07 pm

I'd recommend reading the threads to determine what you think is best...

Regarding the difference between isometrics and resistance training... Here are some links that you should be able to use a translator on...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_training

(thought the notes by the NASA studies were interesting!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_training

free skin care · Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:50 pm

Also at age 23 I would go see an eye doctor (opthalmologist) and see if there is a reason your eyes are starting to hood so young.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:48 pm

Thank you all for replying to me !

° Havana8 ; yes it was very helpful ! I am new to this forum and still couldn't figure out how to search older topics.

° ClaudiaFE ; I didn't understand much of the texts and translating didn't help ! They said isometrics were a type of resistance training, so it's the same or almost ?

° IMCathy : I went to the ophthalmologist and he said every thing's Ok ! I do think it's weird too though !

As far as I understood from the topics it seemed to me that FE is *stronger* than the other programs, is it ?

free skin care · Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:01 pm

Anika... not the same at all...

What is your native language?

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:02 pm

My language is french, face exercise isn't very known here !

free skin care · Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:54 am

Bonjour Anika! Bienvenue a la EDS!

I think the four most popular facial exercise programs on the EDS forum are FlexEffect, Ageless, Facercise, and Carolyn's Facial Fitness. Many people have tried different programs, and there are so many different opinions on the various programs. There are several threads on the EDS forums on facial exercises such as

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=33970&highlight=progress+facial+exercises

Trying also searching the EDS forums for threads on each of these facial exercise programs.

I hope this helps, and if you have any questions, just ask Smile

free skin care · Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:53 pm

Hey there - maybe you should explore a couple web-sites for some samples of exercises:
EvaFrasier.com (A very nice sample eye exercise - I do it several times a week)
LeaEigert.com
Carolynsfacialfitness.com.

Also if you email LuLu from Ageless she will give you some samples. I do so love the eye exercises from Flex effect.

Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:04 am

Bonjour cm5597, very nice french thank you very much Very Happy

!!

I did do some research about all these programs and the ones that really caught my attention are FE ( and Carolyn's, though I read somewhere on the net that the latter was a shameless copy of the first so I'm leaning towards FE more ! ) and Ageless.

Also do you think facial building is too much to start with ?

Thank you sister sweets !! Can I fin he email address on her site ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:19 am

Yes you can find Lou's email address on her website.

With starting facial building at such a young age your going to be so ahead of the game and prevent many of the problems that you will see others of your same age experience later on in their years.

I'm obviously biased with FlexEffect (being a trainer of it and all), but think its sensible that whichever program you decide to go for, to begin it slowly, and really take time to learn the exercises and techniques. Pay attention to how your skin responds, as it may respond significantly within the first few days, or it might show signs of stress etc, and if so you will then need to adapt it etc.

Facial exercises in conjunction with good skin care products and diet/lifestyle changes are the ultimate antiaging duo there is in my opinion! Laughing

Anika Polka wrote:

Bonjour cm5597, very nice french thank you very much Very Happy

!!

I did do some research about all these programs and the ones that really caught my attention are FE ( and Carolyn's, though I read somewhere on the net that the latter was a shameless copy of the first so I'm leaning towards FE more ! ) and Ageless.

Also do you think facial building is too much to start with ?

Thank you sister sweets !! Can I fin he email address on her site ?

Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:30 am

Hi SeanySeanUK !!

I do want to purchase the FE program but as it seems to be some kind of very *strong* program I was thinking of starting off with Ageless first, to get my face muscles into shape before I build them ! Is it a good idea ? Or not really ? Laughing

It seems weird though to talk about such thing as " facial building " ; is that a lifetime commitment ? I'm thinking of poor Arnold Schwarzenegger who used to have a toned body as a young body builder and ended up with kilometers of extra loose skin all over at age 60 or so. Would the same thing eventually happen to my face if I built it up ?

Also I don't want any sample exercise as I think it can be counter-productive to work only one area of the face !

I really agree with you on your last sentence, I think beauty mainly comes from the inside out !

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:37 am

FE is a very strong program, but its one that is really comprehensive in my opinion and like most things you can really adapt to suit your own needs, but Ageless is a great introduction to facial exercises for sure.

Re facialbuilding, thats exactly what it is.... building up the components of your face. When you build up our facial muscles, if you stop working out they will atrophy over time back to their former state, so it is a lifetime commitment in a sense, but I think one of the most enjoyable and holistic ones, and it gives you a true appreciation about your own face and allows you to sculpt and shape your face. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it takes commitment but like most things in life, the hard work you put in does justify your results.

Re sample exercise, there’s no harm in trying a sample one but when you begin progressing doing only a select few exercises thats kind of like spot training. I don’t advise anyone to do that. People often think they have a problem area such as the eyes or cheeks for example, and many times these can be affected by other areas of the face. The cheeks in themselves are like a junction of muscles - not just one but several so when they start drooping for example, it can often be partly caused by so many different factors.

I say follow your intuition re this. Your at a young age so aren’t looking to solve many of the problems someone in their 40’s or 50’s have encountered but its a great adventure and one that I hope you will enjoy!

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:51 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

FE is a very strong program, but its one that is really comprehensive in my opinion and like most things you can really adapt to suit your own needs, but Ageless is a great introduction to facial exercises for sure.

Re facialbuilding, thats exactly what it is.... building up the components of your face. When you build up our facial muscles, if you stop working out they will atrophy over time back to their former state, so it is a lifetime commitment in a sense, but I think one of the most enjoyable and holistic ones, and it gives you a true appreciation about your own face and allows you to sculpt and shape your face. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it takes commitment but like most things in life, the hard work you put in does justify your results.

Re sample exercise, there’s no harm in trying a sample one but when you begin progressing doing only a select few exercises thats kind of like spot training. I don’t advise anyone to do that. People often think they have a problem area such as the eyes or cheeks for example, and many times these can be affected by other areas of the face. The cheeks in themselves are like a junction of muscles - not just one but several so when they start drooping for example, it can often be partly caused by so many different factors.

I say follow your intuition re this. Your at a young age so aren’t looking to solve many of the problems someone in their 40’s or 50’s have encountered but its a great adventure and one that I hope you will enjoy!

Thank you SeanySeanUK for your reply !

I am not naive and expect results to show up overnight, plus if facial building is anything like body building, then it must take at the very least a whole year to get optimum results ! Also as Flex Effect is a strong program, do you think I should do it every day allowing only one or two day of rest, or should I just do it a few times a week ? And if I do so isn't that enough of an introduction to facial exercises ? I absolutely agree with you when you say a problem area can be affected by other areas, for instance I definitely feel something moving near my eyebrow when I clench my teeth Laughing

I'm not imagining it ! I also think one can not possibly expect a saggy double chin to lift without exercising the cheeks at all as well, I may be wrong though !

Also do you know how long it would take for the FE program to reach me in France ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:19 am

Sure, I figured you weren’t naive but you would be amazed at how many people seem to believe that they should get results overnight. We often advise people to give it a year, as it takes time to learn and your consistently strengthening each muscle group. Even after the year results continue to come. Deb (the creator of the program) is still getting results even to this day - and I have been doing it since 2006 and confess I am still getting changes at times so its very much a progressive thing.

With working your facial muscles, because they are not identical to the body (in their shape and also that some terminate directly into the skin), unless there is an immune condition like cancer or diabetes than working out your muscles each and every day is sufficient. I often tell people to aim to do it at least 6 days a week, and allow themselves an extra day off for recovery as in my experience this way you will build strength, gain confidence and it becomes much more of a healthy habit. I personally still do all 40 exercises of FlexEffect (which has a cd which does the counting for you so you don’t have to focus on that and can concentrate on the exercises) and thats timed at 28 minutes exactly, but I tend to split it so I do the first 20 exercises in the morning on waking (as it wakes me up and gets me ready for the day) and the last 20 at night before bed (as there are some advanced ones in there, plus its a great destressor and relaxer). In the beginning your looking to build uniform strength in all your facial muscles, so you need to really allow yourself a year (but thats not to say your going to definitely work every day of the year, life is getting busier for us all and we all have occasions when things happen and you can’t work out - but its important to aim to keep as consistent as possible).

As your relatively young, you might want to try initially seeing how your face responds to the workout and take it from there. With clenching the teeth, the muscle thats used is called the masseteur, but often times for a weaker muscle, other stronger muscles will jump in to try and pick up some of the tension from that weaker muscle, and its not uncommon at all (in fact its relatively part of the norm) and to me thats one of the beauties of Flex Effect in that you gain that kind of knowledge. Knowing which muscles are weaker, and which ones are stronger and going to try and jump in and help the weaker ones out, and over time you can actually get the weaker muscles to be strong ones. So in your example, when your clenching your teeth (your engaging the masseteur), but your corrugators (the muscle literally on the eyebrow are jumping in so the weaker muscle doesn’t get the full tension). Our bodies and faces are really smart machines, and they don’t get the credit they truly deserve.

No idea re how long it takes to get to France - I don't sell the program, but I teach it but you might want to stop by the FE forum and ask that question there?

FE is a comprehensive and aggressive program, and takes time to learn and so maybe your want to start with Ageless as an introduction as you say and go from there. That way your be able to dedicate less time (I think many say Ageless only takes a couple of minutes a day) until you decide whether you want to go all out and do FlexEffect.

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:39 am

Hi Anika - I started out with FE and there is a DVD with 14 exercises that serve as a starting point for the program. It is a good introduction and gives you an idea as to holds, etc. You could do this and as you get more comfortable add more exercises (this is what I did).
Changes seems to happen in three month increments (for me!). And I am now almost 16 months of faithful exercising and noticing some lifting and building rather regularly.

Ageless has some great exercises which to my mind serve also as wonderful massage. I'm to the point where I think the more intense massage component makes a noticeable difference. I tend to do Ageless in bed before I get up and the daily program is about 5 minutes. If you don't have the half hour to spend on Flex Effect Ageless is a wonderful substitute.
I do not do all 40 exercises - do NOT care for some with regards to TMJ. I probably do about 32 of them and truly enjoy the cheeks, lip and eye exercises. I do other programs exercises for chin, neck and jawline. That's just me! and yes some were from the Freebie sites! Also a great eye exercise from Eva Frasier (free) that I do. She is 80 years old and looks outstanding - she started when she was 50.
Many of us Cherry pick through programs - Some purchased, some of the freebie sites (like Kiss the Ceiling). I would not discount anything but I do agree it's valuable to work the entire facial structure.
~Sis

Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:59 am

Sean, is there such a thing as face work out forums ? That would be so cool, because I am a bit scared at the idea of starting a program without any coaching !
Also is it true that another FE book is going to be released, and if so which one do you think I should purchase, the older one or the new one ! I definitely want the full kit, book and dvd, and also the CD you mentionned if it is available to beginners ! I wish there were FE trainers here in France too Laughing

!
Do you give like private lessons or something ? And how much do they cost ?! I study english and am planning to go to England next year so I'd like to attend an FE class, even just an hour !!

Also I don't think a year is a lot, I think it's pretty reasonnable to get results and I don't trust programs that promise some kind of quick miracle fix !

Sis, how come you pick exercises from other programs if you have the FE one ? I was under the impression that it covers all the voluntary muscles of the face and neck ! Also what is a TMJ ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:01 am

Hey SisterSweets - thats interesting re the 3 month periods for you each time, but I'm so glad you talked about the massage. You know back in the day when I started, we had the hardest time getting people to do the massage and really had to bug them to do it, but the moment they did - the results seem to speed up as a result.

Its tough because it does go against everything out there that we are brainwashed into thinking, but the real proof is in the pudding for sure.

Facial exercises I do believe are progressive in that over time you continue to get more and more results, and thats certainly what I have gathered from my teachers in the past (Deb, Eva and a host of others) and its certainly been true for me too and I believe will be true for many others. I think the trick is to get it into being a health habit and almost second nature - don't you?

sister sweets wrote:

Hi Anika - I started out with FE and there is a DVD with 14 exercises that serve as a starting point for the program. It is a good introduction and gives you an idea as to holds, etc. You could do this and as you get more comfortable add more exercises (this is what I did).
Changes seems to happen in three month increments (for me!). And I am now almost 16 months of faithful exercising and noticing some lifting and building rather regularly.

Ageless has some great exercises which to my mind serve also as wonderful massage. I'm to the point where I think the more intense massage component makes a noticeable difference. I tend to do Ageless in bed before I get up and the daily program is about 5 minutes. If you don't have the half hour to spend on Flex Effect Ageless is a wonderful substitute.
I do not do all 40 exercises - do NOT care for some with regards to TMJ. I probably do about 32 of them and truly enjoy the cheeks, lip and eye exercises. I do other programs exercises for chin, neck and jawline. That's just me! and yes some were from the Freebie sites! Also a great eye exercise from Eva Frasier (free) that I do. She is 80 years old and looks outstanding - she started when she was 50.
Many of us Cherry pick through programs - Some purchased, some of the freebie sites (like Kiss the Ceiling). I would not discount anything but I do agree it's valuable to work the entire facial structure.
~Sis

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:10 am

There has always been a FlexEffect forum since I have done the program - take a look at the website and its staffed by trainers who can offer advice plus you can also chat with other people who do the program also.

Another book is in the making, but is going to be holding a lot of advanced techniques that beginners probably won’t be willing to do, or whose faces won’t be up to those kind of challenges just yet. I have been telling people to master the current exercises as I know it will make the transition so much more easier into the advance d stuff coming. We don’t have an exact date as to when the new book is going to be available as yet, and Deb and her family are working round the clock to make it the best product it can be.

The current kit that is sold on the website is the one Sis is talking about, and has the dvd demonstrating 14 mixed level exercises, the book (that contains 40+ exercises, advanced neck exercises and details of a suggested massage technique for people to try - but its not the only massage technique out there - and when it comes to the face all and any massage in my opinion is better than no massage at all for stimulating the face), plus the CD that has Deb doing the count for the 40 exercises.

Cathy one of our trainers gives webcam lessons - which might be an option you like to explore. I do training, but am in the midst of writing my own book at the moment so don’t have next years training details to hand, but if your interested, contact me on the forum and I will let you have those details when they are available.

TMJ is a condition that affects the function of the jaw joint (and/or temporomandibular joint) and it affects more than 10 million people. So anything that involves stressing the jaw joint for people with this condition is not a good idea (and at FE we have people who do the majority of exercises like Sis but leave out the ones that aggravate that condition).

Its like most things, people when they find something like FE that works, like to go all out and learn as much as the can, and so add to it and experiment and thats great!

There are hundreds of facial exercise programs out there - and as everyone has different needs/goals, they become their own trainers and pick and choose which is a great thing to do (but I always suggest to people to do a solid year of training using one program so they gain personal knowledge of their facial strengths/weakenesses and how to respond to awkward stages etc).

Sean

Anika Polka wrote:

Sean, is there such a thing as face work out forums ? That would be so cool, because I am a bit scared at the idea of starting a program without any coaching !
Also is it true that another FE book is going to be released, and if so which one do you think I should purchase, the older one or the new one ! I definitely want the full kit, book and dvd, and also the CD you mentionned if it is available to beginners ! I wish there were FE trainers here in France too Laughing

!
Do you give like private lessons or something ? And how much do they cost ?! I study english and am planning to go to England next year so I'd like to attend an FE class, even just an hour !!

Also I don't think a year is a lot, I think it's pretty reasonnable to get results and I don't trust programs that promise some kind of quick miracle fix !

Sis, how come you pick exercises from other programs if you have the FE one ? I was under the impression that it covers all the voluntary muscles of the face and neck ! Also what is a TMJ ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:05 am

Hello Anika!

Anika Polka wrote:

I did do some research about all these programs and the ones that really caught my attention are FE ( and Carolyn's, though I read somewhere on the net that the latter was a shameless copy of the first so I'm leaning towards FE more ! ) and Ageless.

So I don't have experience with Carolyn's program. What I know is that it's a fixed 15-minute program with something like 25 exercises that you do daily. My understanding is that Carolyn purchased all the other facial exercise programs out there, and then developed her own program taking bits and pieces from other programs. When I look at the "before and afters" on her website, if I compare them with the "before and afters" on the FE website, for similar time points, those on the FE website looks like they have made more improvements.

With purchasing either FE or Ageless, I really don't think you'll regret either purchase, even if in the end, you find you like one of these two programs way more than the other. I definitely like FE much better, and to me, there is really nothing else out there that seems nearly as good. But Ageless is my clear second favorite program. And honestly, depending on the person and their time constraints, I would feel comfortable recommending either program, and I can totally understand why some people like FE better and others like Ageless better. And others, like Sister Sweets, use lots of programs, which is also great! The key thing is to end up with a set of exercises and a training routine that you personally really like.

Both FE and Ageless have supportive forums, and people will be willing to give you advice and guide you. The one caveat I should mention is that since Ageless is a younger program, there is only one trainer on it--Loulou--who is available to give expert advice, so you may not be able to get as much expert attention and advice at the Ageless forum, though both forums have lots of helpful and supportive people on them.

Quote:

Also do you think facial building is too much to start with ?

So, I actually started doing facial exercises when I was 20 years old. The program I started with, Facercise, is really a toning program, so it was fine for me for the first few years, but in my mid-twenties, my face became gaunt and I lost a lot of volume in my cheeks. Facercise was not strong enough because it is a toning program (not a resistance or muscle-building program) to restore volume and plumpness to my cheeks. Now the exercises in FE are resistance exercises, designed to build muscle. That said, any resistance exercise can be converted into a toning exercise (but the opposite is only true in some cases). So you can also take any resistance exercise and simply apply less resistance or do it less often and therefore just tone your muscles, not build them. So FE gives much more flexibility and can be tailored much more than a program like Facercise.

If you are already happy with the volume in all parts of your face, you can just start doing any facial exercise program but just focus on toning your muscles and on the prevention of aging. However, if you need to restore volume anywhere in your face, then you definitely need a program based on resistance training exercises, and in that case, I'd strongly recommend FE or Ageless (though Ageless does not hit all areas of the face; it focuses on the cheeks).

If you are unsure of where to start, you can always post your picture on the FE or Ageless forums or PM a trainer and ask how you should be tailoring your program (and whether you should be toning or building each muscle), and people will be happy to help. Since you are 23, it is overwhelmingly likely that you just want to focus on toning exercises right now, but starting young will make a huge difference!

I hope all this information helps you! You are also in great hands with all of Sean's and Sister Sweet's help Smile

Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:53 am

Sean, you seem to be very honest, I appreciate that ! So I'll follow your advice and will wait till I get the hang of the first 40 exercises before I try the new book ! Also cam training seems weird to me, I think it must be nothing like face to face training, but I'll try that anyway thank you ! Also how much do these webcam lessons cost ? And I'm definitely interested to know your training details so I will contact you on the FE forum, I can wait till you're not busy anymore with your writing too !

Hey cm5597, thank you very much for all these useful pieces of information !! Well actually I can't wait to lose my baby fat as I think mature faces are so much more attractive especially on women ! What if I start building my face muscles when I still have this baby fat though, will it make my face look plump or fat ? From all the information I gathered on the net it really seems you're right when you say Flex Effect is very unique, and it's very reassuring to know that there are people ready to help on the FE forum as well !

I'm pretty sure I won't regret buying FE and Ageless too, I think it's the best beauty care one could ever use for their face and over the long haul a great save of money !

It's interesting to know you started face training at approximately the same age as me also, can you tell me more about it ? Did you facersice every day and did it show on your face ?

Also, it seems like you tried both programs FE and Ageless, are the cheek exercises similar ? I wanted to start off with Ageless but from what you say I gather I could just as well start with the FE exercises without the resistance, did I get you right ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:32 pm

I'm only sharing with you my information for you to ask others about and make an informed decision, and Sis and CM are also doing the same. Thats whats so great about EDS, you can get honest feedback.

Cam training does seem strange, but hey its something you can start no matter where in the world you are - and Cathy is a fabulous trainer. When I get set up with a webcam, I might swap sessions with her (sometimes a PT can help you tweak things or notice where your going wrong after all).

The exercises between FE and Ageless are substantially different though. I think Ageless is a great introduction to facial exercises, particularly as your young and not having to sort out problems so you might find that the best way to start and then if you feel you need to add FE to your regime.

The FE exercises use resistance aggressively, although there are some non resistance based exercises in the back of the book, the real gems are the resistance ones. Ageless also has some resistance based ones but from memory they are done only a few minutes each day and not as aggressively as FE (but thats just my personal opinion here I must stress). In FE on some of the advanced exercises, we have you place fingers/thumbs in your mouth to get you to lock on to a particular muscle grouping and then contract it, whereas I believe Ageless doesn't do that for example.

I've just realised I have written probably an awful lot so want to allow others opportunity to share their perspectives (its better to get a wide range of comments after all!).

Sean

Anika Polka wrote:

Sean, you seem to be very honest, I appreciate that ! So I'll follow your advice and will wait till I get the hang of the first 40 exercises before I try the new book ! Also cam training seems weird to me, I think it must be nothing like face to face training, but I'll try that anyway thank you ! Also how much do these webcam lessons cost ? And I'm definitely interested to know your training details so I will contact you on the FE forum, I can wait till you're not busy anymore with your writing too !

Hey cm5597, thank you very much for all these useful pieces of information !! Well actually I can't wait to lose my baby fat as I think mature faces are so much more attractive especially on women ! What if I start building my face muscles when I still have this baby fat though, will it make my face look plump or fat ? From all the information I gathered on the net it really seems you're right when you say Flex Effect is very unique, and it's very reassuring to know that there are people ready to help on the FE forum as well !

I'm pretty sure I won't regret buying FE and Ageless too, I think it's the best beauty care one could ever use for their face and over the long haul a great save of money !

It's interesting to know you started face training at approximately the same age as me also, can you tell me more about it ? Did you facersice every day and did it show on your face ?

Also, it seems like you tried both programs FE and Ageless, are the cheek exercises similar ? I wanted to start off with Ageless but from what you say I gather I could just as well start with the FE exercises without the resistance, did I get you right ?

free skin care · Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:17 pm

The cheek exercises are really not similar. Ageless - to me - seems more like a massage with a level of resistance. It is a great option in a short time frame.

FE is more very resistance based. It is also more comprehensive which is reflective of the time element involved. I love the feel of having worked out my entire face. It's great.

I see value in both of them. Would definitely not give up FE for Ageless. But for the cost Ageless was a super benefit - it really got me turned on to massage and the writing Lou Lou does in her book is inspiring.

BTW: I love the cheek holds that Sean refers to - the fingers in the mouth! They work it!

Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:21 am

It's Ok Sean I really appreciate that you take the time to give me so much information ! I'm definitely purchasing the Flex Effect program because it sounds so unique, I think it's a must-have !

Thank you all Smile

free skin care · Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi Anika, I like Fe and am looking forward to the new release ( been waiting a few years but I expect maybe by next year we'll see something great)... many of us find that FE fills in for most things but as you become more acquainted with the options - (other programs out there) you find specific exercises that "feel" better for you - they work something better or smarter... That's what I want - I like putting the time in and working an area hard but also being smart about what works best for me is important. FE is the central part of my exercise routine and I think purchasing it would be a good choice...but don't be surprised as time goes on when other programs will have appeal also. (So happy to have FE.... but I'm not a trainer and I'll tell it like it is for me)

Many facial exers on EDS feel the same. We swap exercises on Pm's!!!! it's a great community - welcome!

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