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Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:11 pm  |
| jasminerosey wrote: |
thhttp://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=85169
this is the address of the info about facial bones shifting due to the aging process
but you can find other info by googling the subject matter
anyway..it would be interesting to see of this technique can really shift facial bones even slightly (they must be somewhat maleable, i would think, in order to shift in the first plac. |
Just correcting your link for the article you sited:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=85169
I checked around and found a couple of similar articles which include a bit more information which you might find interesting. It seems that the MedicineNet article that jasminerosey provided is slightly abbreviated.
http://www.physorg.com/news114104878.html
http://www.emaxhealth.com/8/18053.html
Both of these new links state the following:
Since growth plates found in most of the body's bones stop growing after puberty, experts assumed the human skull stopped growing then too. However, the bones that comprise the human skull have no growth plates.
Using CT scans of 100 men and women, the researchers discovered that the bones in the human skull continue to grow as people age. The forehead moves forward while the cheek bones move backward. As the bones move, the overlying muscle and skin moves as well and that subtly changes the shape of the face. "The facial bones also appear to tilt forward as we get older," explains Richard, "which causes them to lose support for the overlying soft tissues. That results in more sagging and drooping."
Something new to consider in this discussion. HTH |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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desdemona
New Member
 
Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 5
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:29 am |
I checked out the links you posted and I thought the lady in the black fedora looked familiar and I remembered that I came across a video of her on a talk show while I was looking for videos on Chizu Saeki. Unfortunately, since I'm new, I'm unable to embed any videos or give you links. Search for "zzzfusionzzz" channel on youtube and click on one of the uploaded videos that has a pale-faced woman with her fingertips on her chin. That channel also has two videos on Chizu Saeki's techniques.
The other video I found you need to search for "shitomi88" channel on youtube. The video is the only one there. The results look pretty amazing but I'm not sure if it's the same principle (using bone) or if it is real. |
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:25 am |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| jasminerosey wrote: |
thhttp://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=85169
this is the address of the info about facial bones shifting due to the aging process
but you can find other info by googling the subject matter
anyway..it would be interesting to see of this technique can really shift facial bones even slightly (they must be somewhat maleable, i would think, in order to shift in the first plac. |
Just correcting your link for the article you sited:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=85169
I checked around and found a couple of similar articles which include a bit more information which you might find interesting. It seems that the MedicineNet article that jasminerosey provided is slightly abbreviated.
http://www.physorg.com/news114104878.html
http://www.emaxhealth.com/8/18053.html
Both of these new links state the following:
Since growth plates found in most of the body's bones stop growing after puberty, experts assumed the human skull stopped growing then too. However, the bones that comprise the human skull have no growth plates.
Using CT scans of 100 men and women, the researchers discovered that the bones in the human skull continue to grow as people age. The forehead moves forward while the cheek bones move backward. As the bones move, the overlying muscle and skin moves as well and that subtly changes the shape of the face. "The facial bones also appear to tilt forward as we get older," explains Richard, "which causes them to lose support for the overlying soft tissues. That results in more sagging and drooping."
Something new to consider in this discussion. HTH |
Yes, that was what Jasminerosy pointed to, and it is extremely interesting! I would love to hear more about this.
But all three of the links are based on the same study--in fact the same press release from the communications office at Duke--so it's still only one set of authors/scientists who have made that claim that the facial bones grow with age. So far, most other articles I've come across say only that facial bone atrophies with age:
For examples....
* http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9655429
This study says that what happens is that the mid-face bone region atrophies faster and retrudes faster than the forehead bone region, which gives the appearance of the forehead bones shifting forward with age, even though the forehead does not shift forward per se. The retrusion of the cheek area explains why the Duke study concluded that the forehead appears to shift forward relative to the cheeks. From the handful of studies I've seen out there, this is the preferred theory for why the forehead appears to shift forward, and the alternative, minority theory that this is due to continuing bone growth has been put forth only by one set of authors.
* http://www.aaps1921.org/abstracts/2009/21.cgi
This study specifically says that they tested the idea that the jaw bone continues to grow with age, as some other scientists suggested, and they found not only is that theory false, but the jaw bone shrinks with age.
So the weight of evidence so far appears to be that facial bones atrophy with age, not grow with age. But even if some of the facial bones can/do grow (which it doesn't look like this can conclusively be proved yet one way or the other), I would think that you can prevent or delay the loss of bone by pressing/putting stress on them, but not change the shape or position of your bones. The latter seems really doubtful to me. |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:19 am |
Exactly cm!! My point was either Dr Richard's study was flawed simply because his premise (ie that bone continues to grow during adulthood) is incorrect ... or the press release of his findings is poorly worded. The original press release was for a speech he had given at the annual meeting of the American Society of Ophthalmic Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons in New Orleans, but I didn't see a published journal article related to his findings.
I have now found a recently published abstract entitled Analysis of the Anatomic Changes of the Aging Facial Skeleton Using Computer-Assisted Tomography by Dr Richard et al. You may see it here:
http://journals.lww.com/op-rs/Abstract/2009/09000/Analysis_of_the_Anatomic_Changes_of_the_Aging.11.aspx
Note the authors' revised conclusion: "The facial skeleton appears to remodel throughout adulthood. Relative to the globe, the facial skeleton appears to rotate such that the frontal bone moves anteriorly and inferiorly while the maxilla moves posteriorly and superiorly. This rotation causes bony angles to become more acute and likely has an effect on the position of overlying soft tissues. These changes appear to be more dramatic in women."
This seems to be more in line with the established medical understanding of changes in facial structure due to aging IMO |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:11 am |
Hi all, there is a free link to the bone facial program by the lady wearing the hat. Although it's in chinese, but the program is rather easy to follow by just watching the demo.
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/udVpsMWKljc/
The lady with the hat is actually in her 60's and she looks very good for her age.
I've read a lot of positive feedback of this program from some other chinese forum. Many of the gals notice improvement at various areas after doing the program for a few months. I started doing it yesterday and my face did look a bit brighter afterwards. |
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Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:20 am |
| fat_swan wrote: |
Hi Moonstone,
I'm still waiting for the video to load, but I was wondering if you can give me the name of this method in Chinese please? I don't know how to type Chinese so I've been driving myself crazy trying to look it up on the Internet! And would you mind directing me to the Chinese forum that talks about this method? I'd really appreciate the help, thanks!
I know from reading your other posts that you're also doing Ageless exercises. How are they working for you, and how does it compare to the Bone exercises? Thanks so much!
Swan |
Hi Swan, here is a link to the discussion of the Bone exercises at a Chinese forum:
http://www.tianya.cn/publicforum/content/no11/1/716826.shtml
Yes, I've been doing Ageless since beginning of this year. It's hard to compare the two programs at the moment as I just started the Bone program for a couple of times. Since it feels more like a massage method to me, I think I will incorporate it into my facial exercise routine and see how it works.
As for Ageless , the results for my upper cheeks, double chins and eyes are really amazing. But after I did the intense Ageless bootcamp in late August for 2 weeks, my face became a bit too tight and slim. There were also hollowness at the lower face together with some laughing lines and mouth pouches which didn't exist before.
I took a break stopped doing all the cheek exercises for almost 4 weeks. But the gauntness and laughing lines still exist.
Then one day as I was searching at youtube, I came across a facial program from another British lady called "Faceworks". She posted a couple of free exercises at youtube and I really like them. http://www.youtube.com/user/FaceworksUK#p/u/1/QZkEdPotnDE
Out of curiosity, I ordered the Faceworks program and started doing them 2 weeks ago. I'm really surprised that this program works wonder for me. My laughing lines, mouth pouches and nasolabial folds have been significantly reduced after only 1 week. It also eliminated the fine lines at my forehead. The British lady also kindly sent me another bonus exercise for the lower cheeks. Now after 2 weeks, I start to see improvement with a fuller lower face.
From my experience, I found Ageless works well for the upper cheeks and eyes while Faceworks is great for the lower face and forehead. So now I combine the two together which seems to be a great combination for my face.  |
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Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:32 am |
Most of the time, I couldn't access to the video link posted by Moonstone. Nevertheless, I managed to locate the face massage video in Yahoo; here you are:
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5417375/14269296
Also, I found that there is a website talking about this technique: Zogan face-creation massage technique.
The Zogan massage consists of the following 11 steps and a warm-up.
Warm-up exercise to prompt the flow of lymph
STEP1 Improve the swelling of the forehead and the wrinkles between the eyebrows
STEP2 Remove the swelling around the eyes and improve the puffy eyes
STEP3 Pushing up the downside mouth corners
STEP4 Remove the blots on the nostrils and make the bridge of your nose higher
STEP5 Remove the deep nasolabial grooves and left up the entire cheeks
STEP6 Remove the nasolabial groove in a focused way
STEP7 Remove the fat beside the nasal wings not to make the nasolabial grooves appear
STEP8-1 Dissolve the sags in the areas between the cheekbones and the chin
STEP8-2 Remove the “bulldog line”
STEP9 Remove a double chin and tighten a vague face line
STEP10 Pull up the whole facial sag
STEP11 Erase the transverse wrinkling on the forehead
http://facemassage.sblo.jp/article/14610105.html |
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Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:55 am |
| Dia wrote: |
sorry the link is not working..
You can try copy & paste..
If not..I searched on google for Yukuko Tanaka..
nr. 8 is a link to "taiseikeijutsu body massage"
I'm realy impressed by this woman..she is 65 years..and looking so good..
Hope you can see the little movie..it's easy to follow..and feels very nice 
best
Dia. |
Dia, you are right, it is an very nice video and quite easy to follow. For anyone having problems locating it on MySpace, try copying the following phrase into your search engine:
Taiseikeijutsu/Body Massage Video By Kohei - MySpace Video
It should be the first hit. Copy and paste didn't work for me. HTH |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:08 am |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| critic wrote: |
It mentions many times in the book that it is a MUST to do down to the collarbones at every step. That step is very important to removing the dirt. It also demonstrates how to do it correctly. |
Does the video link we have on this thread demonstrate the collarbone move well or is there more to the technique that's shown in the book? |
Can't remember if it demo in the video. I just open a file for my before/after photo, I looked so ugly before I started the massage, I showed the pic to my husband and blamed him not 'warn' me. You can PM me your email address and I can't send them to you. These pics will remind me never give-up massaging. BTW, I start Tanaka together with changing my diet with Chinese food therapy. |
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Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:22 pm |
All,
I have emailed the pic to those who PM me. There are total 6 photos.
1. Jan 2009 - looked horrible, with all aging signs, eyelids were dropping, no chin, no neck.
2. April 2009 - close-up, maybe started the program for few days.
3. June 2009 - getting much better
4. Sept 2009 - the shape of my face is changing
5. Oct 2009 - close-up, no make-up. Skin is almost perfect.
6. Nov 2009 - Thanks Giving Day, no make-up.
Besides starting massage in mid-April, I also do foot bath every night and follow Chinese food therapy, just to avoid the food which is no good to the body. If you just compare Photo 1 and 6, you will think I have lost weight, I am always within 48.5 kilo range for whole life, even having 2 kids.
Here is the Chinese food theraphy discussion:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35661 |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:57 am |
I hope this doesn't bore everyone but a few of us are wondering which oil to use with this massage so I thought I'd post this guide.
Below is a copy from a book which describes some of the different oils around (the book was more about dietry use rather than topical but this chapter touched upon the beauty uses).
Coconut oil is currently being touted as a 'healthy' oil by some despite its high level of saturated fat. Those who are advocating it claim that it contains lauric acid, found in mother's milk. It contains antibacterial, antiviral and antifungal properties.
Hazelnut oil is well-known for its astringent qualities. It is deeply penetrating and stimulating to the circulatory system and is high in vitamins, minerals and protein. Its texture makes it an excellent moisturizer for those with oily skin, suitable particularly for facial and body massages giving a smooth, silky-soft skin texture and is a lovely carrier oil.
Hempseed Oil naturally replenishes skin moisture. If you suffer from eczema, psoriasis, skin cracking or scaling, chapped lips or dry hair, systematic use of skin care products containing omega-6 fatty acids should restore your skin's natural glow and bring a healthy sheen to your hair and lips. Because hemp seed oil is an excellent source of omega fatty acids, adding it to your diet can substantially improve your skin's natural appearance and elasticity.
Macadamia nut oil is one of the best regenerative oils available. It closely resembles sebum (the oil naturally produced by the skin to help protect it). Macadamia oil is a fabulous, protective oil with a high absorption rate and has been successfully used as a healing oil for scars, sunburn, minor wounds and other irritations.
Sesame seed oil is immensely popular in India where its use is part of everyday life and an important aspect of Ayurveda massage, ancient indian techniques that provide relaxation, improved circulation and elimination of toxins. Sesame is the favoured massage oil as its chemical structure gives it a unique ability to penetrate the skin easily, nourishing and detoxifying even the deepest tissue layers.
It is naturally antibacterial, antiviral and an anti-inflammatory agent. It has been successfully used in the hair of children to kill lice infestations and used after exposure to wind or sun to calm sunburn. It nourishes and feeds the scalp to control dry scalp dandruff and to kill dandruff-causing bacteria. It protects the skin from the effects of chlorine in pool water. It is also good for facial application in controlling acne.
Palm oil is supposed to be a good source of beta-carotene. It has a high vitamin A and E content.
Tea tree oil displays a number of remarkable properties making it very effective for a wide range of complaints. Foremost and what makes tea tree outstanding in comparison to other remedies is that it is active against all three varieties of infectious organisms; bacteria, fungi and viruses. It has been proved effective in the treatment of acne, athlete's foot, blisters, burns, cold sores, dandruff, herpes, insect bites, oily skin, general skin rashes and nappy rash. The antiseptic and bacterial properties of tea tree oil aid in the treatment of cuts, burns, insect bites, infected splinters and all kinds of wounds, especially dirty wounds or those which contain pus. Because of its antifungal properties, tea tree is an effective treatment for ringworm, athletes food and thrush (candida).
Tea tree oil really seems to be the wonder oil! It can be applied topically to the skin, used in the bath or for inhalation in a vaporiser. It should not be taken internally.
BTW my oil of choice is hempseed - I've been using it for a couple of months with excellent results. |
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Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:21 am |
| critic wrote: |
| Zenity wrote: |
I recall reading at one of the many translations of the massage I have seen something related to the period time. My understanding was that it is better not to practice the massage during that time of the month as you can react on a negative way. It was mentioned that you could have more bleeding.
By the little I know about lymphatic cleanse it is recomended to not do it during your period.
The derivative bath system by France Guillain (wich is another great way to detox your body -through the use of cold water on your groin lymph nodes area- advises to do it that way)
Critic, what do you know about this. Anything mentioned at the book?
| Quote: |
I've now been doing the massage movements correctly but in three days I've developed 10 spots around my mouth area (under nose, upper lip & chin.) This is very, very rare for me (even when my period is due, which it isn't).
Has anyone else experienced this?
I realised yesterday that the massage should not be done without having cleansed the skin first (previously in the evenings I was massaging with my cleansing oil) but surely if this was the culprit, I'd have spots on other areas as well?
Any ideas? |
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Tanaka did not mention in her book, but I read from other Japanese beauty book that don't massage or do facial scrub during period. But I have been doing it every day for the last 6 months and don't see any difference. |
Just want to make clear, I'm not having my period - I'm mid-cycle right now.
I will however sheepishly admit to doing the round the mouth and round the nose (exercises 3 & 4) five times rather than 3 times. All spots are red and have white heads on them and are relatively deep and aren't budging.
Could the fact that these exercises don't involve the sweep to the end of the collarbones create a build-up of toxins in me? (my NL and mouth area are my problem areas in terms of lines and muscle build-up).
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated as this is quite upsetting. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:01 am |
| Toby wrote: |
I have been trying to pull up the video for the Japanese massage all morning and it won't pull up. Is it me or is it no longer available to us  I can't even copy the link to place it here????? |
This link has been working for me: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/udVpsMWKljc/
(massage starts at the 10 minute mark...) |
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:35 pm |
Reminder, at the end of the video, Tanaka mentioned 2 common mistakes that people make:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/udVpsMWKljc/
1. 20.20 shows how to position your palm correctly. Your hands should be touching your nose and push upwards.
2. 20.53 shows how to glide down correctly from your ear to collar. Your face will sag if you do it wrong, 21.21 to 21.28 is a incorrect position. |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Tue Dec 08, 2009 5:46 am |
I read it in Tokyo, the method is very similar as the one we are doing, but more focus on face slimming. Face slimming is very popular in Asia, as most of us have a round chubby face. |
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Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:22 pm |
Let's repeat all the steps again:
Warm-up exercise to prompt the flow of lymph
STEP1 Improve the swelling of the forehead and the wrinkles between the eyebrows
STEP2 Remove the swelling around the eyes and improve the puffy eyes
STEP3 Pushing up the downside mouth corners
STEP4 Remove the blots on the nostrils and make the bridge of your nose higher
STEP5 Remove the deep nasolabial grooves and left up the entire cheeks
STEP6 Remove the nasolabial groove in a focused way
STEP7 Remove the fat beside the nasal wings not to make the nasolabial grooves appear
STEP8-1 Dissolve the sags in the areas between the cheekbones and the chin
STEP8-2 Remove the “bulldog line”
STEP9 Remove a double chin and tighten a vague face line
STEP10 Pull up the whole facial sag
STEP11 Erase the transverse wrinkling on the forehead
RE : EYE and UNDER EYE AREA
Please focus and do more repetitions on Step 2, Step 7 and Step 8. When doing Step 7 and 8, please make sure you apply enough strength and push all the flesh to the ear bone area. Well, I hope you understand what I am saying! |
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