Anyone has heard of Bone facial exercise?
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free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:04 pm

Snowstar - sorry I do owe you a huge apology. My computer is playing up.

I had intended to quote someone who had said when the new FE stuff was available its bound to be expensive or something of the like (thats what the psychic comment was aiming to be put to, not your message as its not been priced or anything yet). Sincere apologies.

The sarcasm response was intended to the person who was saying its bound to be expensive/over priced. The pc I'm working on does wacky things and takes ages to load sometimes (no excuses I know).

Hey we share similar goals, and I'm sorry if the message caused you unhappiness. I've just been trying to look for the specific message to post, but my computer keeps freezing. I'll try and dig it out tomorrow and send to you so you can see it wasn't you I was responding to.

Sean

snowstar wrote:

Sean,

1) Thank you for trying to explain the gaunt face to me. As I said earlier, I was worried that this is getting off topic.

2) No, I am not a psychic. Faeriedust wrote "I wanted to order from amazon china but couldnt because of a payment issue." If you follow the thread and read what she wrote before that, you will realise that she was talking about the Tanaka massage book with DVD. Why would I be commenting on FE when I've yet to read that thread nor have I ever posted on that thread to date? There is no need to be defensive about FE pricing as I was not even referring to it. Please don't jump to conclusions.

I'm not quite sure what I posted to warrant the note of sarcasm from you...

ETA : I am on EDS to aid my quest for better skin. I do not wish to offend anyone or partake in any online disagreement/unhappiness.

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Wow you must be psychic, as there is no pricing info available yet, but compared with other facial exercise programs in the US/UK I don't think its going to be unreasonable compared with other programs, but knowing Deb, its going to be a set and will be good value for money.

There is more than bone exercises for sure, there is the latest developments in the Flexing World that she has detailed (and its been an ardous task - that I think she should be charging $100 plus really) but who knows the pricing, that info isn't available yet.

snowstar wrote:

faeriedust wrote:

I wanted to order from amazon china but couldnt because of a payment issue. nevermind.
flex effect is coming out with bone exercises. Will you be getting it? It's going to be sooo expensive for sure.

Faeriedust, Kinokuniya sells the chinese version with dvd for about $20sing.

The only downside is that the characters are in traditional chinese and not simplified chinese.

If you get the china copy with simplified chinese from critic, can i borrow from you for a quick read when you're done with it please?

thank you

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:36 pm

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:54 pm

Llina. Thank you! Thank you!!!

That's an incredible list. I haven't seen some of those. Yay!

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:04 pm

Tonia wrote:

Llina. Thank you! Thank you!!!

That's an incredible list. I haven't seen some of those. Yay!

you're more than welcome. there just so much out there. and i love them! even if you go to a spa, these are things that you can do for yourself everday.

when i went to my aesthetician, and she would do these crazy things to my face, i never imagined that they really had an effect. i thought it was some mumble jumble stuff and tolerated it, waiting patiently for the extraction part.

so until critic actually did this on a regualar basis and reported back to everyone, i would have never guessed. yay critic!

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:46 am

Hi Snowstar,

Though this is off topic, I just wanted to chime in re: gaunt faces, facial resistance exercises, & diet-- I have been doing FE & Ageless for about 4 months. Over the holidays, relatives commented on how gaunt my face had become. This was very disturbing, to say the least! I could only attribute this to the facial resistance exercises, since I couldn't think of what else could be causing this.

When Sean suggested that diet could be the underlying culprit to facial gauntness when embarking on a facial resistance exercise program, it sounded a bit far fetched. However, I kept a food journal to keep track of what my diet looked like. I had incorporated a green smoothie & soup into my diet everyday since November, and while this was great for the overall tone & health of my skin, it was clear that they also displaced a lot of calories in my diet, as well as good carbs, protein, & fats. By keeping track of my diet, it was clear that I was not getting enough of these macronutrients or calories.

I was a bit leery of Sean's suggestion of upping the calorie intake & carbs & proteins & fats, but I decided to give it a shot, though I didn't want to gain weight and not be able to fit in my clothes anymore!

Amazingly, the gauntness in my face reversed after only a few days. (I thought my eyes were playing tricks on me, but my husband confirmed this as well, although he couldn't quite believe it either!) Now, I still don't quite understand the mechanism for why this happened, but diet was clearly the reason behind my facial gauntness, when coupled with facial resistance exercises. My mid-cheek to jaw (buccinator area) is now much more filled out & I no longer have that "drawn-in", hungry look anymore.

It hasn't been that long since I've made this effort to monitor my diet & so I think it's still too soon to tell whether I will end up gaining weight. However, so far (a little over a week or so), my weight has stayed stable.

Hope this helps!

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:25 am

Hey JLM - your not the first to be leery about the suggestion (and I'm sure you won't be the last), and when I was discussing it with my friend, I too was a little bit doubtful, but the proof (just like resistance exercises) really is in the pudding.

With weight and carbs, its really about striking a balance. For me the carbs and facial gauntness is simply about adding healthy snacks comprising a grouping of nutrients (protein, carbs and EFAs) together to help the body repair, but not enough to really add on weight per se. Its a tricky one to do though and when people first start, it is of course worrying (and I can appreciate that) but you do get to know which foods work well for the task and which ones are more challenging!

JLM wrote:

When Sean suggested that diet could be the underlying culprit to facial gauntness when embarking on a facial resistance exercise program, it sounded a bit far fetched.

I was a bit leery of Sean's suggestion of upping the calorie intake & carbs & proteins & fats, but I decided to give it a shot, though I didn't want to gain weight and not be able to fit in my clothes anymore!

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:54 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

With weight and carbs, its really about striking a balance. For me the carbs and facial gauntness is simply about adding healthy snacks comprising a grouping of nutrients (protein, carbs and EFAs) together to help the body repair, but not enough to really add on weight per se. Its a tricky one to do though and when people first start, it is of course worrying (and I can appreciate that) but you do get to know which foods work well for the task and which ones are more challenging!

JLM wrote:

When Sean suggested that diet could be the underlying culprit to facial gauntness when embarking on a facial resistance exercise program, it sounded a bit far fetched.

I was a bit leery of Sean's suggestion of upping the calorie intake & carbs & proteins & fats, but I decided to give it a shot, though I didn't want to gain weight and not be able to fit in my clothes anymore!

Happy New Year Jean & Sean!

Apologies for continuing this off-topic subject but Sean can you suggest some healthy snacks and food that can help with facial gauntness?

My face had been looking gaunt but after 2 weeks in Italy with my mother-in-law's cooking (unsurprisingly!!) my face is looking much better. However my waist (and boobs/bum) has gained some spread!

How can you target facial weight gain if you both exercise your face and body?

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:14 am

Happy New Year Miranda

Your question is a toughie and its not one that I think I can answer. My postings are in relation to experiencing gauntness when your using resistance based workouts on the face (and experience the gauntness in the body’s response to recuperate from them and not having the resources to do so).

With your case, I don’t know whether the guantness has appeared as a result of a break from facial exercising during those two weeks, or whether its simply a reaction of your body to a different food or climate. Well I can tell you what healthy snacks work for me, and then you can try them - as different things suit different people. Namely the ones I carry around with me are almonds, peacons and cashews (as I find if I do get hungry they are great fillers without the danger of making my sugar levels go high). I also sometimes use sandwiches containing chicken and avocado, or other filling.

Its not so much about targeting facial weight gain (and I’m sure there are many resources that will work for differently people), its more about providing extra resources to your body to help them recuperate from resistance facial workouts and many of the people I teach, who used to experience this it would almost always be diet related. I’ve not had to deal with people who experience facial gauntness but have gained spread elsewhere in the body as yet. I’m more focused on providing nutrients (protein, carbs, EFAs and vits/mins) so the muscles have the fuel to repair and become stronger - not so much that your eating to gain weight, but your eating to give your body nutrients to speed up the muscle building process.

Does that make sense?

Sean

This is Miranda wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

With weight and carbs, its really about striking a balance. For me the carbs and facial gauntness is simply about adding healthy snacks comprising a grouping of nutrients (protein, carbs and EFAs) together to help the body repair, but not enough to really add on weight per se. Its a tricky one to do though and when people first start, it is of course worrying (and I can appreciate that) but you do get to know which foods work well for the task and which ones are more challenging!

JLM wrote:

When Sean suggested that diet could be the underlying culprit to facial gauntness when embarking on a facial resistance exercise program, it sounded a bit far fetched.

I was a bit leery of Sean's suggestion of upping the calorie intake & carbs & proteins & fats, but I decided to give it a shot, though I didn't want to gain weight and not be able to fit in my clothes anymore!

Happy New Year Jean & Sean!

Apologies for continuing this off-topic subject but Sean can you suggest some healthy snacks and food that can help with facial gauntness?

My face had been looking gaunt but after 2 weeks in Italy with my mother-in-law's cooking (unsurprisingly!!) my face is looking much better. However my waist (and boobs/bum) has gained some spread!

How can you target facial weight gain if you both exercise your face and body?

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:32 am

Hi Sean,
Just to make more clear; I did have a gaunt face but over the last two weeks it's filled out along with my waist (but strangely, I haven't put on any weight but I've also not exercised or even moved for 2 weeks!).

I snack on cashew nuts! They're good for alkaline balance. So with your avocado and other nut choices, you're opting for 'good' fats? (Essential fatty acids aka omega fatty acids.)

This will explain Kim Catrall's pre-red carpet diet of Salmon to improve her face but keep her slim.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:27 am

Ah ha - that’s more clearer now. Ok with the extra carbs that you have been consuming, its possible that a portion of those have been used to help the muscle repair. Were you doing any facial exercises during the last two weeks?

It’s a delicate balance to achieve, but its definitely one that can be done. I’m not advocating that people consume numerous calories, but rather eat smaller snacks between meals that are healthy and will provide a balance of nutrients to assist their bodies - but your right the EFAs are one thing, but almonds and avocados are also high in protein, and minerals also, so they are an all rounder. When I was looking at snacks, I found natural food sources from nature often were in a perfect ratio - equal good fats, protein and minerals so they were my ultimate choice.

I’m still a great believe in EFAs being good for us and our bodies, and although I know I had read a website one time (I think its Ray Peat believes they are not necessary), I know for me personally they really seem to help my blood sugars and hydration.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:29 am

Here are links to Ray Peat's website:

http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/oils-in-context.shtml

But I've also come across a website which addresses some of his concerns and thats worth reading:

http://li14-183.members.linode.com/knowyourfats/essentialfattyaciddef.html

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:17 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Ah ha - that’s more clearer now. Ok with the extra carbs that you have been consuming, its possible that a portion of those have been used to help the muscle repair. Were you doing any facial exercises during the last two weeks?

When I was looking at snacks, I found natural food sources from nature often were in a perfect ratio - equal good fats, protein and minerals so they were my ultimate choice.

As I've had to stop doing the Tanaka massage (the spots were getting completely out of control), I did restart non-resistance facial exercises just over 1 week ago. I loved the effect Tanaka was having on my face shape but since stopping 10 days ago, new spots have stopped and the remaining are now clearing up.

I will do facial exercises again very carefully, avoiding switching on my orbi. oris. and maybe try doing the occassional Tanaka massage once the spots are completely gone.

With my in-laws, they grow most of their own food so although I'm eating more pasta/bread, I'm eating alot more true organic 'natural' seasonal food also. I often notice I fill out everywhere without putting on weight when there.

free skin care · Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:34 am

Ok well the Tanaka might have been a little too strong a lymph method for you, as with lymph clearing there are many ways of doing it and at the end of the day, the end result is what matters, but if your experiencing those results, I think its safe to rule this out as an option for yourself at the moment (but it may change in the future). You might find that doing Tanaka every day is too much for you. When I practiced lymphatic massage, I never saw a client every day. Even on the course, they have you work on each other, but they tended to separate the whole class out so classmates didn’t get worked on every day at the same time as it could cause such results as your speaking. When I do lymphatic massage with clients requiring them, I do maybe 1 massage a week tops (but then that’s a different process as its someone external using pressure in a sequence).

With your orb. oris, it’s a tough one, as many people who engage that do so without realizing, so its fantastic that you have recognized this. The real trick to building up the other muscles is awareness. When you notice the orb. engaging, give it a command. Its terrible because people seem to think that they can say stop and the muscle understands that, but its only got two commands it understands, contract and release. The easiest way of giving it a release signal is by literally telling it to RELAX. So if I were doing say a forehead exercise and notice my orb. engaging, then I would keep with the forehead part, but in my mind just really focus on the orb and tell it to relax. It sounds strange, but you’d be amazed how over time that command actually works, and I swears that’s one of the reasons I’ve been able to build my muscles evenly and strongly because I’ve paid attention to them and how they respond. Of course when I work with people, its so helpful to me and them because I notice things that I might be doing without realizing, and then when I work out, I have that on my list to pay attention to and if a particular muscle engages, pretty much I can now get it to relax within a second as a result.

Fantastic re your inlaws and growing food. Whats interesting to me is that you say you fill out everywhere there. I’m wondering whether that’s your body’s reaction to the food, and how your body gains weight when your not there (as body type also plays a role). Some people when the gain, gain everywhere, whereas others gain mainly torso etc.

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:20 am

Hi Miranda,

Happy new year! I'm glad to see you back on the boards! Keep us posted if and when you decide to do the Tanaka massage again re: the spots.

I think I mentioned that I also experienced quite a few, which I first attributed to switching over from .025% retin-a to .05%. I'm guessing that in my particular case, the tretinoin caused my skin to turnover and slough off too quickly, which combined with my dry skin (not enough oil & moisture) led to clogged pores and cysts.

And then there was the purging triggered by incorporating green smoothies into my diet. However, interestingly enough, these spots have *migrated* from my cheeks at center of my face to the sides of my face, where the finishing move of the Tanaka massage is done.

Though there were quite a few of these spots, they are small and heal quickly, different from the cysts I would usually get. I believe that these spots were the result of purging from green smoothies (which I am still drinking) & the lymph drainage.

I've found that using a mixture of castor oil and another oil (currently hemp, as per your recommendation!) to do the massage has helped a great deal. After doing the massage, I remove the oil with a hot washcloth, per OCM method. For reasons I don't understand, removing the oil with a hot washcloth is much more soothing to my skin than by removing it with my regular cleanser. My skin seems smoother, less bumpy. Also, I can extract clogged pores very easily with my little extractor tool!

One more thing that has been helping is a straight application of apple cider vinegar (ACV) with a cotton swab on the spots. It stings, but it seems to dry them up faster!

Thus, the OCM protocol seems to be alleviating my dry skin & the ACV seems to be dissolving the dead skin with the AHAs. Perhaps you might want to give something like this a shot if you decide to resume with the Tanaka massage. My skin is finally *almost* clear for the first time in four months! (Now it's the scarring I have to contend with! It seems like the job is never done!)

And Sean, your posts are so helpful and insightful as always! It really does seem that paying attention to what I am doing and really visualizing the facial muscles that I am exercising (say, nice round puffy cheeks) provides better results. (I suppose this makes sense, by encouraging the neurons involved in the brain-body connection.)

free skin care · Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:57 pm

Is anyone doing the facial scraping? Jasminrosey, I think you just posted about it, was wondering how you're finding it? I tried it today for the first time. I have a black basalt sea-smooth stone and it's a great shape for scraping. I really liked the feel of it on my face and also worked some pressure points on my body. It's like using the knuckle technique from no lipo but it has the added benefit of being beautifully smooth. I didn't see any drastic change from doing it, but I enjoyed it Very Happy

free skin care · Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:33 am

Miranda, I finally had to quit the Tanaka massage as well. I did find some things to help with the spots like using OCM oils for the massage and using an astringent. Those helped the spots to improve but they didn't completely go away until I took a break from the massage. Interestingly, the OCM massage doesn't make me break out. I may try it again in moderation. Once or twice a week might be good.

Where's the list of snacks? Did I miss it? We're talking about a balance of protein, carbs, and fats, right? How about the following?

dried fruit with seeds and nuts
cottage cheese, an apple, and almonds
2% string cheese, carrots and almonds
a smoothie made with yogurt, blueberries and flax oil

This is Miranda wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Ah ha - that’s more clearer now. Ok with the extra carbs that you have been consuming, its possible that a portion of those have been used to help the muscle repair. Were you doing any facial exercises during the last two weeks?

When I was looking at snacks, I found natural food sources from nature often were in a perfect ratio - equal good fats, protein and minerals so they were my ultimate choice.

As I've had to stop doing the Tanaka massage (the spots were getting completely out of control), I did restart non-resistance facial exercises just over 1 week ago. I loved the effect Tanaka was having on my face shape but since stopping 10 days ago, new spots have stopped and the remaining are now clearing up.

I will do facial exercises again very carefully, avoiding switching on my orbi. oris. and maybe try doing the occassional Tanaka massage once the spots are completely gone.

With my in-laws, they grow most of their own food so although I'm eating more pasta/bread, I'm eating alot more true organic 'natural' seasonal food also. I often notice I fill out everywhere without putting on weight when there.

Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:21 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Do you not apply TCM to the reason your husband has that fat under his eyes? I think its wrong to characterise all men over 40 with that condition, as its incorrect. Some do have it, but some will have it because of sluggish lymph, toxin buildups, improper sleep etc.

critic wrote:

Thoughtful wrote:

Have been doing the massage for nearly two weeks now and every time I do it my skin looks lovely.Done the massage on my husband and his puffy eyes looked really smooth.I love the fact that it doesnt cost hundreds of pounds and it is sooo relaxing,my sinus drainage has improved and because I am using my cleanser for the massage my face has never looked so clean!!!Big thanks too Critic.

My husband looks 10 years younger after one masage. Men tends to have sagging fat under their eyes after 40 (or a super big eye bags), specially for those who don't exericise. This massage is perfect to smoothen those area.

Hello Sean! What is TCM? Laughing

free skin care · Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:48 am

TCM = Traditional Chinese Medicine

decent wrote:

Hello Sean! What is TCM? Laughing

free skin care · Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:30 am

I've been ploughing through this thread finding links to Tanaka massage for the body, and not managing to get one of them to work for me, not even the google search recommendation.
Wink

So is anyone here doing Tanaka for the body? I am so enamoured of her face massage that I want to extend the effect!

Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:42 am

Can anyone be willingly and patiently tell me in detailed form how to do the Zogan massage or better known as Tanaka massage? Xiexie. Pray

free skin care · Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:53 am

Decent, have you watched the film on Youtube?

It is there under 'tanaka facial massage' and it is dubbed in to english very well by 'epicbeautyguide'. It's in four parts.

Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:02 am

catski wrote:

Decent, have you watched the film on Youtube?

It is there under 'tanaka facial massage' and it is dubbed in to english very well by 'epicbeautyguide'. It's in four parts.

Yes, I've been watching it over and over again, catski... Bad Grin

I wonder if it can really lift the face and make the lower face sharp like what facial exercise program users claim...

free skin care · Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:22 am

Where do they claim that - I've not seen such claim, but doubt they could do this. The bone stuff seems to prevent bone loss, which is something that happens as we age (and the good old menopause can do havoc with bones for sure), but like most things I think you don't see this when your young, its when your in your 60's that this really hits home..

Loved to know where you saw that claim though - as I'll definitely read up on it!

decent wrote:

Yes, I've been watching it over and over again, catski... Bad Grin

I wonder if it can really lift the face and make the lower face sharp like what facial exercise program users claim...

free skin care · Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:23 am

The thing to do, Decent, is to try it for yourself and see how you get on!

It is doing great things for me, I love it, find it very relaxing to do. So far I am doing it am and pm... I really have no idea if I am overdoing it.. no spots so far..

Wink

My jaw line is much smoother and chin is pointier again, and under my chin is much slimmer.

Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:28 am

Good one, catski! OK, I believe you. I will start tonight! Can I use olive oil for the face? I'm serious. Laughing

I have a sunblock cream for the face only and that oil...

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