phloretin
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:14 am Quote

Skinactives newsletter said they are now carrying phloretin, the ingredeint in skinceuticals c,e serum. Just wondering if anyone was working on any recipes with this ingredient or has anyone added it to Dr. Kassy's c serum???

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:40 am Quote

Any idea if it is water or oil soluble? I didn't see that it was mentioned in the newsletter.

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:00 am Quote

I'm not sure. Here it is copied and pasted from my newsletter

New actives
Phloretin
http://www.skinactives.com/product/detail.aspx?prodID=188
We are now selling the active in SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF without the silly stuff in their formulation (denatured alcohol? why?). Pholretin is a nice antioxidant and inhibits elastase activity. Incidentally, phloretin has been shown to inhibit proliferation of breast cancer cells, a good reason to eat that "apple a day". I think phloretin may become a favorite of DIY that like to make their own vitamin C-serums.

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:40 pm Quote

On the skinactives forum, Hannah said she didn't think the phloretin would dissolve in a water-based serum.

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 pm Quote

Skippie,
Did they give any recommendations as to what to dissolve it in? I see their ready made listed above says no alcohol in their formula? I would love to know as this looks like an active I would like to add to my potion cupboard!

TIA
DM

enjoys freebies · Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:35 pm Quote

Phloretin is soluble in Ethanol and Methanol, according to Calbiochem.

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:53 am Quote

When you say ethanol and methanol Lacy does that mean alcohol? As in vodka maybe?
This is an active I'm definately interested in.

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:58 am Quote

Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...

Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.

A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).

HTH Smile

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:05 am Quote

DarkMoon wrote:

Skippie,
Did they give any recommendations as to what to dissolve it in? I see their ready made listed above says no alcohol in their formula? I would love to know as this looks like an active I would like to add to my potion cupboard!

TIA
DM

On their website, they recommend adding it to the Canvas Base which I don't quite get since these are the ingredients:

Water (aqua); Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil (emollient); Sorbitol (slip and water binding); Butylene Glycol (slip); Cetyl Alcohol (moisturizer and thickener); Glyceryl Stearate (moisturizer and thickener); PEG-100 Stearate (moisturizer and thickener); Stearyl Alcohol (moisturizer and thickener); Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil; Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Sweet Almond) Oil; Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil; Sodium Hyaluronate (water binding, nutrient); Polysorbate 20 (emulsifier); Citric Acid (to adjust pH); Dimethicone (skin conditioner, slip agent); Carbomer (thickener); Triethanolamine (to adjust pH); Diazolidinyl Urea, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben (antimicrobial preservatives).

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:42 am Quote

cm5597 wrote:

Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...

Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.

A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).

HTH Smile

Just saying that you get more ethanol per volume with rubbing alcohol than with vodka... Smile

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:54 pm Quote

Thanks CM. I've just got to figure out what rubbing alcohol is, I've never seen it. Is it something I can get at a pharmacy, or a hardware store?

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:11 pm Quote

Mishey wrote:

Thanks CM. I've just got to figure out what rubbing alcohol is, I've never seen it. Is it something I can get at a pharmacy, or a hardware store?

Mishey, it is usually in the first aid section at a drugstore. Here is a link to a picture. Maybe that will help you!

http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Antiseptics/Apothecary-Ethyl-Rubbing-Alcohol/ID=prod475&navCount=1&navAction=push-product?V=G&ec=frgl_500228&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=sku300475

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:03 pm Quote

maybe not in a hardware store...but I haven't get been to a drug store or convenience store that doesn't carry it. here are some pictures:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=rubbing%20alcohol&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

just double check that it says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (and not isopropanol or isoproyl alcohol)

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:16 pm Quote

cm5597 wrote:

Not Lacy here, but just in case this helps...

Ethanol (aka ethyl alcohol) and methanol (aka methyl alcohol) are both particular types of alcohol.

A better bet for ethanol than vodka is rubbing alcohol, as it doesn't have all the unwaned extras in vodka. Just make sure the rubbing alcohol says ethanol or ethyl alcohol on the label (you don't want the kind of rubbing alcohol that says isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol).

HTH Smile

Just saying that you get more ethanol per volume with rubbing alcohol than with vodka... Smile

Does this mean anything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in Ethanol? Slightly off topic here, but I was making Kassy's C serum last week when I ran out of vodka for the Ferulic Acid and decided to substitute with 95% Ethyl Alcohol instead. It turned into sludge and I had to throw it out. Did I do something wrong? Thanks!

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:18 pm Quote

fat_swan wrote:

Does this mean anything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in Ethanol?

So the answer is no, not everything that is vodka-soluble should also dissolve in ethanol. BUT....if you add water to ethanol, you can make a vodka-like substitute that should be able to dissolve almost all of the same things as vodka.

So vodka is about 35-50% ethanol, with almost all the rest being water, while ethanol (rubbing alcohol) is usually anywhere from 70-99% ethanol, with just a tiny bit of water.

Ethanol and water often can dissolve similar things, but there are some things that water can dissolve but ethanol cannot, and hence that vodka can dissolve much better than pure ethanol. A good example would be sugar dissolves well in vodka, but not well in ethanol.

So if something dissolves well in your vodka, but not so well in your rubbing alcohol, what you can do is if you want to use rubbing alcohol, you can dilute that in a one-to-one ratio with water, to get "substitute vodka" Very Happy

That probably should probably allow you to substitute water + ethanol for vodka in most recipes.

But if that still doesn't work, then probably either:

(1) For some reason, your rubbing alcohol isn't really ethanol, but is really isopropanol or isopropyl alcohol

or

(2) There are some small amounts of other chemicals in the vodka which help dissolve whatever you are trying to dissolve, in which case, substituting a half-and-half water plus ethanol solution for vodka won't work.

HTH Smile

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:29 pm Quote

P.S.

Hi fat_swan!

At http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6632444.html,

it indicates that ferulic acid is soluble in water, but the pH must be 7.0 or higher.

also it indicates that ferulic acid is soluble in some alcohols (the ''bigger'' types of alcohol molecules), but not ethanol...so that alone sounds like it would explain why ethanol alone didn't work for ferulic acid.

(however, a couple other sources said that ferulic acid is soluble in ethanol...so maybe it has limited solubility in ethanol??)

HTH Smile

enjoys freebies · Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:49 pm Quote

P.S. Skippie is right. I found a research article in the journal "Biochemistry" that said the solubility of phloretin in water is low:

"All substances investigated [phloretin and phloretin analogs] exhibit a low solubility in water. (e.g., phloretin solubility is <2.5 X. M..."

enjoys freebies · Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:28 am Quote

Thanks very much Riley and CM. I'm in Australia and I don't think I've ever heard of rubbing alcohol, but I'm sure we'd have it. Probably called something else. I'll look around for it.

So is the best way to use phloretin in combination with vitamin C does anyone know?

enjoys freebies · Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:16 am Quote

If anyone comes up with a recipe (Kassy?), I hope you'll share it. I'd be very thankful as I'm not very chemically minded.

enjoys freebies · Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:54 am Quote

Thank you cm5597 for taking the time to research my question! Very Happy

I had no idea vodka is water + ethanol, I only thought I'd need less liquid to dissolve the FA if I used plain ethanol Laughing

. Thanks so much!

enjoys freebies · Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:39 am Quote

fat_swan wrote:

I had no idea vodka is water + ethanol

yep, that's what it *mostly* is! Smile

enjoys freebies · Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:54 am Quote

Maybe this will help for a recipe; it's the description and ingredients for SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF:

SkinCeuticals has developed a new antioxidant treatment containing the molecule Phloretin. Derived from the bark of fruit trees, Phloretin is the newest in antioxidant technology. Phloretin CF is a broad-spectrum antioxidant containing 10% L-Ascorbic Acid and .5% Ferulic Acid along with 2% Phloretin.

Phlorentin CF delivers powerful photoprotection from free radicals and environmental elements. It helps reduce fine lines and wrinkles, diminishes age spots and other forms of hyperpigmentation. It accelerates cell renewal along with improving laxity in the skin Restores radiance and produces a more uniform skin tone. This lightweight solution is perfect for all skin types, including oily.

INGREDIENTS: WATER, EAU, DIPROPYLENE GLYCOL, ALCOHOL DENAT., ASCORBIC ACID, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, TRIETHYL CITRATE, PHLORETIN, FERULIC ACID 30021/2

Size: 1 fl oz

(From SkinCareLab)

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