Nasolabial Folds--What's Worked and How Long Did It Take?
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free skin care · Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:00 am

Its worth trying and seeing how your body responds for sure. Other times it might be that your eating a food that your body might be challenged with digesting for examples. Many times I have read an article say about how healthy bananas are being high in potassium etc and thats true, but for my body personally it struggles with them big time. They raise my sugar levels up rapidly, and then they drop suddenly (not a good thing if your diabetic) so for me its not a good food. I only have to have half a banana and you can bet the next day when I wake, I will either have spots, or stressed skin which is an indicator to me that its not right for my body.

I once had a blood test done which tests your tolerance against foods after working out that bananas weren't for me, and the results showed that Bananas were a red food for me (meaning better not eaten, or eaten in small dozes but not daily or regularly) so that mirrored that result for me. I'm sure there are many health foods out there which are nutritionally sound but just might not work for everybody.

jeanleemarquis wrote:

You know, it just occurred to me that if N/L's really are reflection of one's digestive system, it might be useful to add a probiotic supplement. (I'm off to add this to my growing N/L fighting repetoire!)

free skin care · Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:12 pm

An update: With all the changes that I've made recently (diet-- green smoothies & more veg, paying attention to doing the FE Top Furrow exercise correctly, increasing intake of MSM, a bit of facial massage & more exercise-- all with an eye to improving digestion), I have to say that my right N/L fold is looking pretty good. However, strangely enough, the left one is still pretty bothersome. On some days it looks better (or worse) than others, probably due to sleep.

I have faith that the FE exercises will eventually kick in & resolve everything-- however, I'd like to do what I can to speed up the process! Very Happy

I've gone through some of the older posts on the FE & Ageless threads & have read that others have also experienced some asymmetry at certain points in their progress, before everything "evened out." So I was wondering whether anyone has an opinion on whether switching the hands to do the exercises (that is, using right hand to do the grips on the left side, and the left hand for the grips on the right side) would encourage the muscles on the weaker side to work harder.

I'm going to give it a shot & see what happens.

free skin care · Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:03 pm

I know Sean can answer this better but this is my experience with uneven build. When I started facial exercises the right side of my face "picked up" better/quicker than the left and it was obvious - to me for many months. Over time the left side has gradually caught up. I was just better at using the muscles on the right and my left side needed to catch up. I dont know that you could change hands - maybe pull harder on the side that's not working and give it the harder work out. As I understand it, what happens is time and consistency will bring the slow muscles up to speed and things even out eventually.

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:04 am

Its definitely a normal sign, so don't worry. Just as one part of the brain is more dominant for most people, we often find that that side is more responsive with body exercises, or hand writing etc (think right/left handers for example). Usually its the opposite side of the brain (from memory) that has the control so if your right hemisphere controls the left side, and vice versa.

I have myself experienced similar issues (both personally and with clients) and by far the most easiest way I have dealt with this is probably going to upset people, but here goes. Of course your welcome to try out what you want, and this is only suggestions that I have seen work for people I have trained, but no two people are identical (I can't stress that point enough).

For the weaker side, I think its a mistake to do more reps, or bigger resistance, as all your be doing is working that muscle beyond its needed range. What ultimately your wanting to do is to build up that mind/muscle connection and this is done most easily by using your imagination. So for example, if your doing a particular muscle and feel it intensely on the right side of your face, and then on the left side you don't feel a quarter of that same power in the contraction, simply expand upon the sensation you do feel by imaginging what it would feel like for that sensation to travel through the whole muscle your working. It sounds crazy, but the body really can build up that neuromuscular connection by doing this over a very short space of time. The other thing I tend to do is to get people to visualise (just like Carole Maggio does in many of her exercises) as this also kicks the brain into the equation and seems to speed things up.

I have heard people doing more reps on weaker sides, and more resistance, but it seems to work for some and not for others, but the way I have described above has worked for everyone I know of.

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:04 am

Its definitely a normal sign, so don't worry. Just as one part of the brain is more dominant for most people, we often find that that side is more responsive with body exercises, or hand writing etc (think right/left handers for example). Usually its the opposite side of the brain (from memory) that has the control so if your right hemisphere controls the left side, and vice versa.

I have myself experienced similar issues (both personally and with clients) and by far the most easiest way I have dealt with this is probably going to upset people, but here goes. Of course your welcome to try out what you want, and this is only suggestions that I have seen work for people I have trained, but no two people are identical (I can't stress that point enough).

For the weaker side, I think its a mistake to do more reps, or bigger resistance, as all your be doing is working that muscle beyond its needed range. What ultimately your wanting to do is to build up that mind/muscle connection and this is done most easily by using your imagination. So for example, if your doing a particular muscle and feel it intensely on the right side of your face, and then on the left side you don't feel a quarter of that same power in the contraction, simply expand upon the sensation you do feel by imaginging what it would feel like for that sensation to travel through the whole muscle your working. It sounds crazy, but the body really can build up that neuromuscular connection by doing this over a very short space of time. The other thing I tend to do is to get people to visualise (just like Carole Maggio does in many of her exercises) as this also kicks the brain into the equation and seems to speed things up.

I have heard people doing more reps on weaker sides, and more resistance, but it seems to work for some and not for others, but the way I have described above has worked for everyone I know of.

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:04 am

As I said previously, the above is only a suggestion and its worth following your intuition, but please let us know what works for you!

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:51 am

I suppose I thought of switching hands as a way to stimulate the neuro-muscular connection by mixing up the dominant hand (my right) on the non-dominant side (my left)... and thus to encouraging the weaker side to build out faster. For example, when I switched hands to massage my face, it felt strangely more relaxing, as if it was someone else touching my face! (Then again, it could be just me!) But I was just wondering whether this was something that others might have tried. I'm going to give it a shot, in any case... it can't hurt, right? (And I'm all about getting faster results!)

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:28 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

simply expand upon the sensation you do feel by imaginging what it would feel like for that sensation to travel through the whole muscle your working. It sounds crazy, but the body really can build up that neuromuscular connection by doing this over a very short space of time. The other thing I tend to do is to get people to visualise (just like Carole Maggio does in many of her exercises) as this also kicks the brain into the equation and seems to speed things up.

This has reminded me of something I heard many years ago from Eva Fraser (an 80 yr old facial exercise teacher). She told me before doing each exercise, to draw a line with your finger along the muscle to be exercised. By doing this you can 'visualise' the muscle better which for her was an important part of making the muscle work (I believe she said it switches on the muscle). I, of course, thought this to be a load of old poppycock and never did it but hearing of it again from Sean does make me wonder.
I've found one exercise for my mouth area that agrees with me - and I will experiment by doing it with the visualisation.
Will let you know in a few months how it goes.

BTW just to throw in a random question; has anyone used a Facial Flex or Flexaway?

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:32 am

[/quote]I've found one exercise for my mouth area that agrees with me - and I will experiment by doing it with the visualisation.
Will let you know in a few months how it goes.
[/quote]

Please Miranda, let me in on the secret mouth exercise!

Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:41 am

I love Eva (is she 80 now?), she is a lovely lady, and I learned so much from her, and although I don't recall her teaching me the tracing the muscle, I think I learned that somewhere else, but it doesn't surprise me that she recommended it to you Miranda, as it is a great learning tool and she is a great teacher.

Also what happens is that when you lightly trace the muscle, the brain picks up the tracing of the finger on the muscle itself, and of course its great to help with visualisation.

Re switching the hands, if you can do it comfortably then go for it - its like anything - worth trying!

Re FacialFlex and/or Flex Away this is a good device, but it can if done in conjunction with facial exercises at times overbuild certain areas (like the mouth). Depends on the person using it, as I have seen some people overbuild very quickly with it as it is a simple device to use and people often fall into the trap of more is better (when in reality its less is more!).

Sean

This is Miranda wrote:

This has reminded me of something I heard many years ago from Eva Fraser (an 80 yr old facial exercise teacher). She told me before doing each exercise, to draw a line with your finger along the muscle to be exercised. By doing this you can 'visualise' the muscle better which for her was an important part of making the muscle work (I believe she said it switches on the muscle). I, of course, thought this to be a load of old poppycock and never did it but hearing of it again from Sean does make me wonder.
I've found one exercise for my mouth area that agrees with me - and I will experiment by doing it with the visualisation.
Will let you know in a few months how it goes.

BTW just to throw in a random question; has anyone used a Facial Flex or Flexaway?

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:51 am

Of course, I should have posted this!

This exercise which helps me switch off using my mouth muscle (which has overbuilt - guess I should run a mile from Facial Flex/Flexaway!)
_______________________________________________
"i am 37 yrs old and have deep crows feet and very deep nasolabial fold.
please help me to tighten nasolabial fold.

thank you
----------------------
Hi Anjalee,

I had that problem too right around the time I turned around 40. I started doing facial exercises from another source. However, my nasal/labial folds got worse.

It took me a long time to find Carolyn's System but I'm glad I did. She showed me a faster way to exercise and it was easier and gave me a more natural look. Besides it finally took care of those folds. Look at my picture on my home page. I was 49 1/2 in that picture.

One of the best ways to lift out the nasal/labial folds and lines is to lift the cheeks. Many facial exercise programs have you work the corners of your mouth and create resistance by making a kissing motion, but this over-build this nasal fold because it does NOT lift up the cheeks.

One things that was designed into Carolyn's system is the proper building of the upper cheeks so that nasal folds lift up and smooth. Plus, you get higher cheek bones which look more elegant and younger.

So in this exercise you want to:

1- With your mouth make a big "O" shape and wrap your lips around your teeth.

2- Try to smile with the corners of your mouth.

3 - Take the heels of your hands and massage the area just below the temples on the outer edges of the apple of the cheeks .. the area below where crow's feet most often appear. (counting slowly to 10)

Do this a few times a day and within a week or two you should start to see the nasal folds start to lift. "

http://www.wrinkle-free-skin-tips.com/nasolabial-fold.html

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:40 am

Thanks Miranda! I am definitely going to try this & see what happens!

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:35 pm

The more your teeth point inwards the more visible nasolabial fold one will have. If you have great teeth with a good angle, you're lucky and won't get this one fast, but if you're teeth can't support the lip, you will get it no matter what your age is.

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:06 pm

Vor wrote:

The more your teeth point inwards the more visible nasolabial fold one will have. If you have great teeth with a good angle, you're lucky and won't get this one fast, but if you're teeth can't support the lip, you will get it no matter what your age is.

I have an overbite and teeth that lean slightly outwards which gives me pouty lips but I still have a N/L developing. If anything, my pouty lips and sliding cheeks create a greater demarcation line from cheek to mouth.
I also have a friend with very outward pointing teeth (all the way to her molars) and the only ageing aspect of her face are her N/L lines.
I don't think the above theory works for everyone.

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:34 pm

I'm with you Miranda... my teeth are great! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:43 pm

Vor wrote:

The more your teeth point inwards the more visible nasolabial fold one will have. If you have great teeth with a good angle, you're lucky and won't get this one fast, but if you're teeth can't support the lip, you will get it no matter what your age is.

Vor: I'm not quite understanding where you are coming from with this statement. I can agree if someone has lost their upper teeth - this causes bone loss and the lips can sag inward giving lines around the lip area but with regards to the NL situation I can't see this as a result of teeth moving lingually (inwards).

free skin care · Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:46 pm

Adding this on to previous post...My teeth are in perfect alignment (the result of orthodontics - thank you Mom and Dad!) Even with this I must work on the NL situation. Thank you flex effect and facercise.

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:51 am

Found this, which most of you will already know but thought it worth posting....

"As one ages, much of the face falls downward. This is well known but, what is not obvious, is that the central part of the face falls much less than the side. The nose and the upper lip fall only slightly, being held up by the projecting structure of the nasal and upper jaw bones. This is actually good from a functional standpoint, because if the nose and upper lip fell like the rest of the face, we would have trouble breathing and eating as we age!

Because the face falls against a more fixed or stable mouth area, a ‘fold’ develops at the junction of the two. Known as the nasolabial fold, melolabial crease, or facial parentheses, this area is a classic sign of aging that does bother a lot of people."

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:30 am

There is some truth here, but this isn't the first time Vor's made this comment, and its not going to be 100% true for everyone or the precise causing of the NL fold, although I suspect it can contribute to it.

Vor wrote:

The more your teeth point inwards the more visible nasolabial fold one will have. If you have great teeth with a good angle, you're lucky and won't get this one fast, but if you're teeth can't support the lip, you will get it no matter what your age is.

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:14 am

Hi sistersweets & sean-- I was wondering if either of you could talk about Carole Maggio's Nasal Labial Smoother (exercise #9 in the Facercise book). While it seems as though it should be a pretty effective exercise for the N/L's, the reason why I've avoided it is because I'm afraid that it might increase the distance (or the appearance) of the space between the nose and the mouth-- called the philtrum. As Miranda has alluded to in her previous posts, it does seem that the lower third of the face appears to lengthens with age. Here's the link to another EDS thread that refers to the "philtrum."

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=430829&highlight=philtrum#430829

And a quote from the thread:

Antonia wrote:

Sorry, getting too technical. The "philtrum" is the area of skin between the upper lip and the lower edge of the nose. Babies have very short philtra and older people have long ones. Penelope Cruz has the shortest philtrum I've ever seen. Joni Mitchell has a long one. Google them and you'll see right away what I mean.

I have to agree with Antonia that a longer philtrum seems to make for an older appearance.

In this exercise, CM instructs you to "form a long, strong oval shape with your mouth" (the part I'm afraid will increase the philtrum) and then to "visualize a line of energy moving from your mouth corners up to the sides of your nostrils."

Thanks for your comments!

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:19 am

Also, do you think that the philtrum distance would increase with the exercise that Miranda posted from Carolyn's system?

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:07 am

jeanleemarquis wrote:

Hi sistersweets & sean-- I was wondering if either of you could talk about Carole Maggio's Nasal Labial Smoother (exercise #9 in the Facercise book). While it seems as though it should be a pretty effective exercise for the N/L's, the reason why I've avoided it is because I'm afraid that it might increase the distance (or the appearance) of the space between the nose and the mouth-- called the philtrum. Thanks for your comments!

Hi Jeanleemarquis ~ I am going to chime in here. I have been using Carole Maggio's Facercise Program for over 10 years now. If you like, you can view my photos on my blog page at http://aprilevesblog.blogspot.com/. I believe the link will only work if you cut and paste into your browser though. The Nasal Labial Smoother exercise has not increased that area at all on me. HTH in your decision-making process on whether or not to proceed with the program or this particular exercise. Best wishes, Aprile

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:06 am

Aprile, thanks for the link to your blog-- you look AMAZING!!! You are certainly proof that CM's NL Smoother exercise has worked! And you don't have a long philtrum either... but I have to say, I do still feel a bit wary. It just seems that stretching the philtrum area would make it longer-- just like how when the muscles of the body are stretched, it encourages them to appear longer & leaner.

Do you think that this exercise would still be effective with a bit of modification? What I'm thinking of is that instead of keeping the upper lip pressed down on the teeth (as CM instructs), is to form a "fish mouth" & thereby activating the orbicularis oris muscle (which is around the mouth) & caninus muscle-- otherwise known as the levator anguli oris (which runs up & down beside the NL furrow, I believe?), as well as the dilator naris (the small muscles right alongside the nose), which are the muscles that CM targets in this exercise. Does this sound like the right way to target all of these muscles at once?

I find it interesting that CM engages the dilator naris muscles to target the NL's, which is a different approach that FE and Ageless.

Here are some pictures of the muscles that I found on Wikipedia:

Orbicularis oris:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Orbicularis_oris.jpg

Caninus:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Levator_anguli_oris.png

Dilator Naris:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Musculusdilatatornarisposterior.png

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:25 am

jeanleemarquis wrote:

Do you think that this exercise would still be effective with a bit of modification? What I'm thinking of is that instead of keeping the upper lip pressed down on the teeth (as CM instructs), is to form a "fish mouth" & thereby activating the orbicularis oris muscle

Be very careful of activating the orbi.oris muscle - this is a very big problem for me - the Ageless regime has built mine up and I have a monkey effect. I'm having to take time out from Ageless in the hope it goes down (and I'm not the only one who has had this problem on Ageless).
Also increasing the orbi. oris can cause a more exaggerated NL fold as it builds quickly leaving the cheeks behind causing more of a furrow (which is why my NLs were looking worse with Ageless).
The fact that the 'O' exercise doesn't use the mouth muscles was the reason it appealed to me - but I do get your worry in lengthening the philtrum, I hadn't thought of that.
However if you have a very 'flat' mouth, then your suggestion could be brilliant.

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:35 am

Just as with overbuilding, you just need to stop exercising that muscle and the muscle will atrophy within a very short space of time. I would also do my exercises in front of a mirror and notice when you see it activating, one of the most easiest ways of stopping it is giving it something to do, and my favourite command is Relax. Now it might not happen straight away, but over time, you can actually encourage any muscle to relax, and thus stop contracting. It does take time though - but you could have easily overbuilt the orbi.oris with any facial exercise program out there - as it could be one of your stronger and most responsive muscles. Keeping up the exercises if you have overbuilt, will not let the muscle revert back to its former state, so you might want to schedule in some facial exercise vacation, and then reintroduce with less reps and/or resistance. Its something that I think is a great learning curve when you do facial exercises, learning which muscles are responsive and strong and which ones are weak that you won’t get from using a device on our faces.

This is Miranda wrote:

Be very careful of activating the orbi.oris muscle - this is a very big problem for me - the Ageless regime has built mine up and I have a monkey effect. I'm having to take time out from Ageless in the hope it goes down (and I'm not the only one who has had this problem on Ageless).
Also increasing the orbi. oris can cause a more exaggerated NL fold as it builds quickly leaving the cheeks behind causing more of a furrow (which is why my NLs were looking worse with Ageless).
The fact that the 'O' exercise doesn't use the mouth muscles was the reason it appealed to me - but I do get your worry in lengthening the philtrum, I hadn't thought of that.
However if you have a very 'flat' mouth, then your suggestion could be brilliant.

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