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Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:56 am  |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
| Aprile, thanks for the link to your blog-- you look AMAZING!!! You are certainly proof that CM's NL Smoother exercise has worked! And you don't have a long philtrum either... but I have to say, I do still feel a bit wary. It just seems that stretching the philtrum area would make it longer-- just like how when the muscles of the body are stretched, it encourages them to appear longer & leaner. Do you think that this exercise would still be effective with a bit of modification? What I'm thinking of is that instead of keeping the upper lip pressed down on the teeth (as CM instructs), is to form a "fish mouth" & thereby activating the orbicularis oris muscle (which is around the mouth) & caninus muscle-- otherwise known as the levator anguli oris (which runs up & down beside the NL furrow, I believe?) |
Hi Jeanlee ~ Thanks for all of your kind compliments. You know I hadn't really thought about that area at all until someone brought that up to me as that area was a cause for concern with her. She mentioned how aging it can be if that area lengthens a great deal. All I know is that I really stretch that area and it hasn't caused me to have that problem in all these years. That being said, I think any exercise can be modified to suit ones needs and still work. As long as you are still concentrating on the NL folds! For instance some people have difficulty with the jaw strengthener exercise due to TMJ, they could leave out the finger on the chin for resistance but may not achieve as good results, but some results. I say give it a good two weeks, and see if it helps doing the exercise in a modified fashion. Best wishes, Aprile |
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Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:07 am |
| Someone was just saying on the FE forum, that they don't do the recommended 10 reps of the exercises for the nl, and have dropped back to only a few and are seeing their nl area diminish. So maybe working them its easy to overwork the nl area? |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:52 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| Someone was just saying on the FE forum, that they don't do the recommended 10 reps of the exercises for the nl, and have dropped back to only a few and are seeing their nl area diminish. So maybe working them its easy to overwork the nl area? |
Hi TheresaMary,
Do you know which exercise they were referring to on the FE forum? Was it the Top Furrow? Thanks!
JLM |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:23 am |
Two things.... sort of connected.
The first, I went to a big party last night and wore the NL frownies for two consecutive nights and both mornings my ( ) lines round mouth were smooth. The second day, the smoothness lasted much of the day. I'm convinced of the cumulative effect of Frownies if worn every night.
The second - at the big party, I sat next to a lady who owns her own beauty clinic. I mentioned my mouth build up after doing facial exercises which make my NL and parenthesis lines look worse (my mouth muscles are so switched on, all cheek exercises 'flex' my orbi.oris instead of the cheek muscles). She said I must tense my mouth alot (which I do, I constantly have to 'horse blow') and at night I probably clench my teeth (I do, which is probably why the frownies work so well on me, stops all movement).
Anyway she said acupuncture would help remove the tension from the area but the best thing would be cranial osteopathy at the back of my head.
Thought I'd share that with everyone incase anyone else has the same problem as me (NL line caused by built up orbi. oris rather than cheek sagging). |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:39 am |
This is so interesting! I bought the surgical tape weeks ago but I haven't given it a try yet... I will give it a go tonight, and see what happens.
You know Miranda, I think that my NL lines are due to the same factors as yours, although I'm having a hard time differentiating between a line due to cheek sag & one due to mouth muscle build up. How can you tell? (Based on your pic on the dermaroller thread, I can see that you have gorgeous cheeks & mouth, but I can't really tell what is causing the line.)
I also tense my mouth a lot, grind my teeth at night as well.
While doing FE & Ageless, I am really trying to concentrate on working the muscle that is being targeted & avoid engaging the orbi oris. My right side is looking pretty good, but my left line is still, well, *there*.
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
(It does seem that these facial exercises are sort of akin to retin-a, in that there's that ugly period you have to suffer through, doesn't it?) |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:56 am |
I think it was in the workshop forum, marked NLs disappearing or something?
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| Someone was just saying on the FE forum, that they don't do the recommended 10 reps of the exercises for the nl, and have dropped back to only a few and are seeing their nl area diminish. So maybe working them its easy to overwork the nl area? |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:41 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
I think it was in the workshop forum, marked NLs disappearing or something?
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| Someone was just saying on the FE forum, that they don't do the recommended 10 reps of the exercises for the nl, and have dropped back to only a few and are seeing their nl area diminish. So maybe working them its easy to overwork the nl area? |
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Thanks TM, I will check it out! |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:05 am |
Hi everyone
I have a nl fold on my left side of my face on not my right.I tend to sleep on my left side too, i was wondering if this could be the culprit!Anyone else have this problem? |
_________________
Trying to reflect on the outside how i feel on the inside which is 18. |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:17 pm |
| Thoughtful wrote: |
Hi everyone
I have a nl fold on my left side of my face on not my right.I tend to sleep on my left side too, i was wondering if this could be the culprit!Anyone else have this problem? |
Hi Thoughtful
Absolutely ~ sleeping on your side or stomach with your face all scrunched and pressed into the pillow is a major culprit of what they call nighttime wrinkles/creases. Try and find a way to keep yourself on your back at night. You will save yourself from doing further damage, and probably get a better night's sleep to boot! Also, try Carole Maggio's Nasal Labial Smoother exercise to erase the furrow ~ it works! Best, Aprile |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:04 pm |
| Thoughtful wrote: |
Hi everyone
I have a nl fold on my left side of my face on not my right.I tend to sleep on my left side too, i was wondering if this could be the culprit!Anyone else have this problem? |
I read somewhere (Ageless thread?) that many people have a tendency to age faster on one side than the other (usually left). I love to sleep on my back, therefore in a neutral position but I've noticed a 12-18 month ageing process difference between the left and right since my early 20's (my left side showing me how my right will look in 12-18mths time). Not once has my right 'developed' a new age sign first.
But certainly always sleeping on one side, keeping the face in a scrunched up position for 5-8 hours is not going to help either. You could always try a N/L frownie for that side to stop it scrunching up? |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:37 pm |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
This is so interesting! I bought the surgical tape weeks ago but I haven't given it a try yet... I will give it a go tonight, and see what happens.
You know Miranda, I think that my NL lines are due to the same factors as yours, although I'm having a hard time differentiating between a line due to cheek sag & one due to mouth muscle build up. How can you tell? (Based on your pic on the dermaroller thread, I can see that you have gorgeous cheeks & mouth, but I can't really tell what is causing the line.)
I also tense my mouth a lot, grind my teeth at night as well.
While doing FE & Ageless, I am really trying to concentrate on working the muscle that is being targeted & avoid engaging the orbi oris. My right side is looking pretty good, but my left line is still, well, *there*.
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
(It does seem that these facial exercises are sort of akin to retin-a, in that there's that ugly period you have to suffer through, doesn't it?) |
Hi JLM, for me it became obvious that exercising was building up my mouth and by talking to many people I've realised my problem with the NL crease is down to my strong mouth definition. As it stands, I have to be very careful how I exercise - infact I'm having a break til Jan to let the build up go down - and I'm doing the bone massage twice a day - as that can only benefit me by relaxing my tense mouth. Whenever I concentrate on anything - housework, emails, work, I realise my jaw is tensed. I wake up in the morning with slight jaw ache and worse parentheses lines because I know I've been tensing most the night (the frownies prevent this but the best solution - a mouth guard - makes me gag). The lady with the beauty clinic understood exactly what I was saying as she's seen it before and recommended the cranial osteopathy - which makes sense.
I'm a huge fan of facial exercise - many people would improve their looks if they did it - but for me, the 'going thru the uglies' didn't apply, it was making me uglier by giving me a monkey mouth because it was impossible for me to switch off my orbi. oris. Since I stopped a few weeks ago, this has started to subside. Be aware that you're not going to have the same problem as me if you're doing facial exercises correctly ie only engaging the cheek muscles or risorius. But monitor your situation carefully as you may be like me.
The first photo isn't me... but the area circled shows exactly where I got a buildup with the exercises. The second is me, about 6 weeks ago whilst in the full throes of Ageless - I thought I was turning into Bruce Willis 
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:22 pm |
| Thoughtful wrote: |
Hi everyone
I have a nl fold on my left side of my face on not my right.I tend to sleep on my left side too, i was wondering if this could be the culprit!Anyone else have this problem? |
I am aging on one side more than the other as well. That can be caused by sleeping on one side but can also be caused by chewing only on one side. Mine is caused by only chewing on the left side of my mouth. The muscles on that side are much stronger than on the right side where I'm having sagging problems. I can feel a big difference in the muscles when I clench my jaw. I discovered this recently and started trying to eat on both sides. |
_________________
I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:26 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
She said I must tense my mouth alot (which I do, I constantly have to 'horse blow') and at night I probably clench my teeth (I do, which is probably why the frownies work so well on me, stops all movement).
Anyway she said acupuncture would help remove the tension from the area but the best thing would be cranial osteopathy at the back of my head. |
I hold a lot of tension in my face. Tapping helps temporarily but what is cranial osteopathy? Do you go to a chiropractor for that? |
_________________
I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:45 pm |
It's hard to untangle what's going on with me re the left NL-- I sleep on my right, favor chewing with my left-- and yet here's this NL line on the left! I also thought I read on one of the facial exercise threads that having more pronounced lines on the left was linked to having emotional problems or being under stress-- could very well be the case!
It would make sense that most people build their mouth muscles quite easily, if it's framed from a evolutionary/ biological standpoint, no? (People need to have a strong mouth/ jaw to facilitate their survival. Primates also have quite powerful & developed muscles in this area.) Thus, it's quite easy to overbuild these muscles and hard *not* to engage them when doing the cheek exercises.
Myself, I've actually avoided doing some of the orbis oric exercises in FE, although I haven't noticed the exercises in Ageless giving that sort of over-built effect, so far at least.
But I am hoping that I have found a solution to the left NL: the bone massage/ Tanaka facial massage! I have done it for only 2 days, and the line is diminishing. We'll give it a go & see how quickly it goes away! |
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Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:48 pm |
| By the Miranda, there is *no way* anyone could mistake you for Bruce Willis in that picture!!! You have a gorgeous mouth! |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:23 am |
It sounds like you have mouth overbuild, and that’s really easy to fix. I would take a break, usually 2-3 weeks is enough to allow the muscle to revert back. Its not uncommon at all for our stronger muscles to try and jump in when we are working our weaker muscles. Its almost like they are a loving, caring parent, wanting to jump in to pick up some of the slack and stop the weaker muscles getting all stressed out. Now two things spring to mind here. Firstly pay attention to when the mouth jumps in by exercising in front of a mirror. I know it sounds mad, but you would be amazed to see that your mouth might be jumping in during for example forehead, or eye exercises.
Also with cheeks etc, sometimes the movement initiates from the mouth itself, whereas it might need to be initiated from the target muscle which takes a bit of getting used to. That’s not to say the mouth won’t move at all when your working zygomaticus minor or major, there will be some movement, but its very different when you compare lets say working the zygomaticus and engaging the movement from that muscle in comparison with engaging it from the mouth. Its great that your realizing your activating the muscle during every day activities. For me early on, I had this issue and of course realized early on my body had to do something. It didn’t understand the don’t do nothing, but the trick I found was telling it to relax. It sounds mad, but you know muscles like commands, and this was one that seemed to deactive it for me, but I’m sure there are hundreds of other ways.
Cranials are fantastic, I love them. They have a great impact on the fluids of the body (blood, lymph etc) and are also very relaxing and distressing.
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
This is so interesting! I bought the surgical tape weeks ago but I haven't given it a try yet... I will give it a go tonight, and see what happens.
You know Miranda, I think that my NL lines are due to the same factors as yours, although I'm having a hard time differentiating between a line due to cheek sag & one due to mouth muscle build up. How can you tell? (Based on your pic on the dermaroller thread, I can see that you have gorgeous cheeks & mouth, but I can't really tell what is causing the line.)
I also tense my mouth a lot, grind my teeth at night as well.
While doing FE & Ageless, I am really trying to concentrate on working the muscle that is being targeted & avoid engaging the orbi oris. My right side is looking pretty good, but my left line is still, well, *there*.
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
(It does seem that these facial exercises are sort of akin to retin-a, in that there's that ugly period you have to suffer through, doesn't it?) |
Hi JLM, for me it became obvious that exercising was building up my mouth and by talking to many people I've realised my problem with the NL crease is down to my strong mouth definition. As it stands, I have to be very careful how I exercise - infact I'm having a break til Jan to let the build up go down - and I'm doing the bone massage twice a day - as that can only benefit me by relaxing my tense mouth. Whenever I concentrate on anything - housework, emails, work, I realise my jaw is tensed. I wake up in the morning with slight jaw ache and worse parentheses lines because I know I've been tensing most the night (the frownies prevent this but the best solution - a mouth guard - makes me gag). The lady with the beauty clinic understood exactly what I was saying as she's seen it before and recommended the cranial osteopathy - which makes sense.
I'm a huge fan of facial exercise - many people would improve their looks if they did it - but for me, the 'going thru the uglies' didn't apply, it was making me uglier by giving me a monkey mouth because it was impossible for me to switch off my orbi. oris. Since I stopped a few weeks ago, this has started to subside. Be aware that you're not going to have the same problem as me if you're doing facial exercises correctly ie only engaging the cheek muscles or risorius. But monitor your situation carefully as you may be like me.
The first photo isn't me... but the area circled shows exactly where I got a buildup with the exercises. The second is me, about 6 weeks ago whilst in the full throes of Ageless - I thought I was turning into Bruce Willis
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_________________
FlexEffect Trainer |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:33 am |
| Thanks everone for their tips.If you sleep on your back wont you then get more neck creases and or a double chin? |
_________________
Trying to reflect on the outside how i feel on the inside which is 18. |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:43 am |
I think this is more of a question of head alignment. For example, if your sleeping on 3 or 4 pillows that creates wrinkling, then obviously your going to encourage them. Having said that some people do need support for their heads. I remember models talking about using save their face pillows, or even baby pillows to cushion their heads, as it provided support without upsetting the alignment. Good point though!
| Thoughtful wrote: |
| Thanks everone for their tips.If you sleep on your back wont you then get more neck creases and or a double chin? |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:50 pm |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
Cranials are fantastic, I love them. They have a great impact on the fluids of the body (blood, lymph etc) and are also very relaxing and distressing. |
Sean, I'm sure you meant de-stressing |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:09 am |
LOL yep I meant de-stressing. My fingers aren't quick enough for my brain at times! 
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
Cranials are fantastic, I love them. They have a great impact on the fluids of the body (blood, lymph etc) and are also very relaxing and distressing. |
Sean, I'm sure you meant de-stressing |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:55 am |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
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Hi Jean, from what I've read at other forums (in Chinese), some people notice a significant improvement at the N/L lines after doing Tanaka's massage for several weeks. Just keep on doing it and I'm sure you will see further positive changes.
You can also check out another Japanese massage which focuses on applying pressure to certain points on the face. It has some huge raves at Japanese forums. There is one particular exercise for the softening of N/L lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
This exercise takes less than one min to do and you can repeat it 2-3 times each time!
HTH |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:10 am |
Hi Moonstone,
Thanks! Your posting is so timely-- today, after a bad night's sleep,that NL line on my left looks especially bad, and the right is a little more visible than usual too! I cannot wait to try out these new massage techniques!
I have been trying out the Tanaka massage for the past few days-- I feel that it's softening out the slightly "sculpted" look I'm getting from the FE & Ageless programs. Don't get me wrong, I love the facial exercises, as I feel they're building out my rather flat face, but the massage seems to be "incorporating" the results I'm getting-- sort of like a smoother look.
Let's see what happens with that! Thanks again! |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:28 pm |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
Hi Moonstone,
Thanks! Your posting is so timely-- today, after a bad night's sleep,that NL line on my left looks especially bad, and the right is a little more visible than usual too! I cannot wait to try out these new massage techniques!
I have been trying out the Tanaka massage for the past few days-- I feel that it's softening out the slightly "sculpted" look I'm getting from the FE & Ageless programs. Don't get me wrong, I love the facial exercises, as I feel they're building out my rather flat face, but the massage seems to be "incorporating" the results I'm getting-- sort of like a smoother look.
Let's see what happens with that! Thanks again! |
I'm with you on this - poor facial exercises are getting such a bashing on the 'Bone Massage' thread!
It's all about learning what suits and finding the right balance. I've been doing weights for 18 years and yoga for 3 years - I don't have regular body massages but I know my figure would not look the way it does if I had relied on massage and no exercise (and I'm not muscle-y, I've got curves in right places plus an athletic shape).
I've never overdone the weights but I did overdo the facial exercise (Ageless) - even after having done another milder program for 5 years. With the massage being quick, easy and free, I will do that everyday but will begin a softer approach to facial exercise in the New Year. I don't think my cheekbones would have held up the way they have without the past 5 yrs exercise! |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:38 pm |
Hi Miranda,
Just out of curiosity, which facial exercise program are you planning on reintroducing, if not Ageless or FE?
Thanks! |
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Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:03 am |
| moonstone wrote: |
| jeanleemarquis wrote: |
I did the bone massage as described by critic for the first time last night-- now that was really helpful! It made the left line go away, for at least a few hours! Perhaps this & the frownies are the in-between solution I've been looking for until the exercises kick in!
|
Hi Jean, from what I've read at other forums (in Chinese), some people notice a significant improvement at the N/L lines after doing Tanaka's massage for several weeks. Just keep on doing it and I'm sure you will see further positive changes.
You can also check out another Japanese massage which focuses on applying pressure to certain points on the face. It has some huge raves at Japanese forums. There is one particular exercise for the softening of N/L lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
This exercise takes less than one min to do and you can repeat it 2-3 times each time!
HTH |
Thanks for posting this video clip - it looks very interesting!
Moonstone, would you say they're applying 'considerable' pressure to the four points? |
_________________
Easy Eye Solutions, Frownies, Tanaka Massage, Retin-A. |
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