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Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:03 pm  |
| Tonia wrote: |
Miranda, you have great lips! Some women would pay a lot of money for lips like that.
You mentioned having lines around your mouth. How long have you had those? The reason I ask is, I have gotten them for the first time in my life since starting Ageless about two weeks ago. I haven't read all of the Ageless thread yet, so this may be normal. Do you think that's what caused yours? I have natural NL's that I would like to diminish, but I can live with them. The lines around my mouth are ugly. They must go! |
I'm sure the mac camera must distort - my lips aren't that pouty! But thank you all anyway!
Tonia I got the ( ) lines from having my skin over-exfoliated last year. They probably were already there but didn't show through til my skin was thinned. However Ageless built my orbi. oris (mouth) muscle up which highlighted the lines further. I stopped Ageless after 3 months in Dec (moved to the Tanaka massage) and my orbi. oris has lessened.
What I'm going to try to achieve is to continue to let my mouth muscle atrophy (no mouth engaging exercises) and strengthen the risorius and zyco which are muscles running from the orbi.oris. with my TV. The boosting of these muscles should in theory pull the orbi. flatter.
Tonia can you post a photo of your lines? Sometimes it not so much a line but a muscle build-up (although 2 weeks would be fast going for Ageless to do this; but you must have a predisposition for it as I have and others I've spoken to).
Of all the things I'm doing here on EDS, ridding myself of these two parenthesis lines is what I would like to achieve most. However I'm yet to hear from someone who has achieved this. |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:37 pm |
TI Miranda, very cute photos, which just underscore (to me) how much we obsess about our own flaws that no one else would notice.
Anyway, I am curious about your TV comment -- can you explain a little more about what you are planning to do? (Diagrams would be especially great!) I have a TV but am worried I am causing more harm than good so haven't used it much. |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:38 pm |
| Peggotty wrote: |
| Ok, I'm getting a little confused. This thread has been all about the parentheses lines aka marionette lines aka NL lines/folds. They are all one in the same right. I'm a bit confused because some are talking to lines underneath the nose as NLs. These aren't the NLs right? |
Marionette lines are lines from the lower lip down the chin - similar to puppets with moving mouths hence the name marionette. We aren't talking about these.
N/L's (nasolabial) are the lines/folds from the side of the nostril to the corner of the mouth.
Parenthesis lines are ( ) lines round the mouth that can lead on from the line from the side of the nose.
I don't think anyone is referring to their philtrum as NL's. |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:06 pm |
| Hermosa wrote: |
TI Miranda, very cute photos, which just underscore (to me) how much we obsess about our own flaws that no one else would notice.
Anyway, I am curious about your TV comment -- can you explain a little more about what you are planning to do? (Diagrams would be especially great!) I have a TV but am worried I am causing more harm than good so haven't used it much. |
umm.... the easiest way to describe my experiment is for you get to the useless instruction mini-handbook that comes with the TV and look at exercise 5. This is the zyco one I'm doing for 5mins but at intensity 5 which produces a massive twitch at my mouth towards the TV. So to avoid this - as it aggravates the problem parenthesis line, I hold my mouth with the other hand. I can't go any higher than 5 as the twitch is too strong for me to hold my mouth. I then repeat the same but lower with the TV pads placed horizontally between the corner of my mouth and the corner of my jaw. Of course I'm guessing where my risorius is and am using this page as a guide
http://www.face-and-emotion.com/dataface/expression/muscles.jsp
Any suggestions for finding exactly where your own muscles are? |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:33 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| Peggotty wrote: |
| Ok, I'm getting a little confused. This thread has been all about the parentheses lines aka marionette lines aka NL lines/folds. They are all one in the same right. I'm a bit confused because some are talking to lines underneath the nose as NLs. These aren't the NLs right? |
Marionette lines are lines from the lower lip down the chin - similar to puppets with moving mouths hence the name marionette. We aren't talking about these.
N/L's (nasolabial) are the lines/folds from the side of the nostril to the corner of the mouth.
Parenthesis lines are ( ) lines round the mouth that can lead on from the line from the side of the nose.
I don't think anyone is referring to their philtrum as NL's. |
Ok.got it . thanks for the clarification. |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:46 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
get to the useless instruction mini-handbook that comes with the TV and look at exercise 5...Of course I'm guessing where my risorius is and am using this page as a guide.
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Any suggestions for finding exactly where your own muscles are? |
So I dusted off the TV and dutifully flipped to exercise 5. Experienced the same futility and frustration I always feel with the TV, namely, is it positioned where it is supposed to be and are the right muscles twitching adequately in the correct direction? I couldn't even feel much on a 5 so had to dial it up to about a 7!
Providing resistance seems like a brilliant idea. It could work. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to give it another try, but will be interested to hear your results! |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:38 am |
Well, I received my Tian Yong DVD in the mail yesterday-- naturally, I ran to the DVD player to watch. I'll post a more comprehensive review in the TY thread later. However, there was one accupressure point focusing on the NL's that TY demonstrated which reminded me of a link Moonstone had posted a while ago on this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
The guy puts 4 red dots on each side of the models face to demonstrate where you should apply pressure with your finger. TY also shows these same accupressure points. However, the guy says to press in on the point and push upwards 4x (watch the video and you'll see what I mean.)
TY has a different technique: she has you press on the point and massage in a circular motion with your fingertip 3x, then wait 3 seconds while pressing in on the point, and to do 10 repetitions of this.
Well, I tried TY's method, and I have to say, I didn't see too much difference. However, there is an accupressure point just about on either side of the nostrils, and while I was pressing in, it felt pretty good, like a release of pressure or tension of some sort. My sinuses even seemed to be more clear as I was doing this. I decided to continue focusing on this pressure point... which I did, for about 5 minutes or so.
Ah... yes, now there was a difference! The faint shadow that was creeping back along the NLs had receded. The only thing is, I had 2 red fingerprints indented into my skin... but no matter! They faded and the NL's too!
What I like about this accupressure method is that I can do it almost anywhere, even while I'm out & about. I don't know whether one could overdo it (like Tanaka) and get weird results, but for now, I will continue and see what happens. (And so far, no new zits this morning!)
I feel that TY will not give instant lifting results, as Tanaka does, and I will still try to give it another try after my Dermawand arrives. TY results seems to be more cumulative, and accupressure is another method that I feel might be worth trying. I'll continue to post results.
BTW Tonia, I've been doing a combination of FE & Ageless for about 5 months... for me, it seemed that my NL's did get a bit worse at first. Actually, it seemed that my face was looking better after the first couple of weeks, and then a little after a month in, I just looked *so* tired.
And I continued to look tired for about another month, month and a half. I had better days and worse days, but overall, I looked tired. Changes in my diet (green smoothies) did help.
And then Critic posted the Tanaka massage... and *that* is when things began to turn around. I don't know, perhaps it was all a matter of timing? That is, perhaps my face would have started looking better on its own from doing facial exercises anyway? That was about the 3 month mark.
Now I can say, things are looking pretty good everywhere else, though I'm continuing watch those NL's. In fact, I am beginning to wonder about the efficacy of facial exercises as they pertain to NL's-- that is, they might help *some*, but not a lot-- or not as much as some other methods (such as Tanaka, or potentially TY). While these resistance programs are great for the eyes & cheeks, it seems that they don't (or can't) directly address the NL area. HTH.
By the way, here is Moonstone's original post:
| moonstone wrote: |
Hi Jean, from what I've read at other forums (in Chinese), some people notice a significant improvement at the N/L lines after doing Tanaka's massage for several weeks. Just keep on doing it and I'm sure you will see further positive changes.
You can also check out another Japanese massage which focuses on applying pressure to certain points on the face. It has some huge raves at Japanese forums. There is one particular exercise for the softening of N/L lines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzs0H417jUc
This exercise takes less than one min to do and you can repeat it 2-3 times each time!
HTH |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:44 am |
Oh, and one more thing: I've cut back to doing FE & Ageless to every other day-- it seems that in order to encourage the facial muscles to grow, you also want to give them enough rest to repair & rebuild. When I was doing the exercises every day, I was getting more of a sinewy, weightlifter sort of look. Cutting back has definitely softened my features.
I have also been careful with my diet as well... when I was experiencing gauntness in my face, Sean recommended upping my diet a bit with carbs & some protein & good fats... and that has helped (strangely enough, I still can't believe it) without making me gain weight. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:15 am |
Just to add to JLM's point on diet; have a read of this page:
http://www.middle-ageless.com/search?q=greens
I have been dubious on the diet having a direct and speedy effect on NL's but the evidence is mounting!
So just in case, I'm back on the green smoothies! |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:20 am |
| Hermosa wrote: |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| get to the useless instruction mini-handbook that comes with the TV and look at exercise 5...Of course I'm guessing where my risorius is and am using this page as a guide. |
So I dusted off the TV and dutifully flipped to exercise 5. Experienced the same futility and frustration I always feel with the TV, namely, is it positioned where it is supposed to be and are the right muscles twitching adequately in the correct direction? I couldn't even feel much on a 5 so had to dial it up to about a 7!
Providing resistance seems like a brilliant idea. It could work. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to give it another try, but will be interested to hear your results! |
Hermosa I can't believe you don't get a twitch at 5!! Are your pads very wet? I know if they're not, the TV is less effective (I figured it saves battery power to have them wet). Also I push the TV into my skin rather than have it gently laying on it (I usually have temp. marks where the pads have been which I find helpful in making sure I place them the same position on the opposite side).
I did it again last night and had a dull ache in the areas that I want to focus on so I pleased at that.
Give it another go and let me know what you think!! I need some feedback on this from someone else who's tried it! |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:43 am |
| Ok I've just started Facercise, and the nl's are a trouble area of mine. I got excited as Carole has an exercise specially for them, but I can't get my head round it. I've done searching on here and can't see if anyone else has asked this question. What I don't get is that she says this is a visualisation exercise, with no real movement, but then I'm wondering how do you know if your doing it correctly (or is a case like emperor's new clothes). |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:54 am |
| LondonLucyGeorge wrote: |
| Ok I've just started Facercise, and the nl's are a trouble area of mine. I got excited as Carole has an exercise specially for them, but I can't get my head round it. I've done searching on here and can't see if anyone else has asked this question. What I don't get is that she says this is a visualisation exercise, with no real movement, but then I'm wondering how do you know if your doing it correctly (or is a case like emperor's new clothes). |
Some time ago we had a discussion about this, and I find visualization approach to be somewhat questionable. If for example one starts visualizing that one has firm stomach or buttocks how much improvement is expected? ....  ... |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:03 am |
Just to share, I think that visualization can be a useful tool in conjunction with exercises because it can build up that mind/muscle connection over time.
Visualisation is indeed questionable on its own, but when you view it in terms of using the mind, it is a bit more clearer to understand. For example say when doing a bicep curl, if you did an ordinary one with a 5 lb weight, it’s a good exercise. But if you do it with that same weight, and use your imagination to believe your lifting up a car or something else very heavy, it seems to produce a very different sensation when compared with the workout without visualization and fires up the body and muscle fibres.
Just to add - I’m not trained in teaching Facercise, but I believe that what Carol is doing here is really get the mind involved along with energy to help redistribute that area and even it up somewhat (but must confess I don’t get it completely). Some people swear by it, I’ve got a friend who loves Facercise and it has produced amazing results for her.
I think for visualisation to really work, it has to be combined with some sort of phsyical activity, but in Mpstat's example, its fine to visualise a flat stomach, but if no exercises are done, then there is no way you can cause a physical change in my mind.
Just to also highlight a study which was done using hypnotherapy to increase muscles in England showed dramatic results in one week with participants doing only HYPNOTIC exercises. The group that did the real exercise (for the same amount of time as the hypnosis group), increased the size and strength of the targeted muscle 30%. The group who did ONLY the hypnosis exercise increased the size and strength 16%. So there is something to be said for engaging the mind.
Sean
| mpstat wrote: |
| LondonLucyGeorge wrote: |
| Ok I've just started Facercise, and the nl's are a trouble area of mine. I got excited as Carole has an exercise specially for them, but I can't get my head round it. I've done searching on here and can't see if anyone else has asked this question. What I don't get is that she says this is a visualisation exercise, with no real movement, but then I'm wondering how do you know if your doing it correctly (or is a case like emperor's new clothes). |
Some time ago we had a discussion about this, and I find visualization approach to be somewhat questionable. If for example one starts visualizing that one has firm stomach or buttocks how much improvement is expected? .... ... |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:25 am |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| ... I think for visualisation to really work, it has to be combined with some sort of phsyical activity, but in Mpstat's example, its fine to visualise a flat stomach, but if no exercises are done, then there is no way you can cause a physical change in my mind.... |
Sean this is exactly what I meant. Mindset and attitude are not to be discredited and they are quite valuable. However for building toned firm muscles physical exercises are important. I am a strong believer in resistance exercises. I use a couple of valuable exercises from Facercise, but NL folds is not one of them. I do not have any NL folds whatsoever (thanks to FlexEffect and three in one exercise). Friends of mine comment on this fact and many of them got hooked on resistance based facial exercises for this very reason. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:30 am |
| Sure, I'm in agreement with you. Visualisation like anything is a tool people can take or leave. I tend to teach people to visualise when they do FlexEffect because it helps sometimes with the neurokinetics of the muscle and engaging it, contracting it, but some people just don't get on well with it. |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:32 am |
Sean, on another note. Do you know when FE starts shipping new FlexEffect edition? I placed a pre-order back in the first half of January, and can not wait for it to arrive.  |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:36 am |
| JLM wrote: |
Oh, and one more thing: I've cut back to doing FE & Ageless to every other day-- it seems that in order to encourage the facial muscles to grow, you also want to give them enough rest to repair & rebuild. When I was doing the exercises every day, I was getting more of a sinewy, weightlifter sort of look. Cutting back has definitely softened my features.
I have also been careful with my diet as well... when I was experiencing gauntness in my face, Sean recommended upping my diet a bit with carbs & some protein & good fats... and that has helped (strangely enough, I still can't believe it) without making me gain weight. |
Yes, please let us know how the TY/accupressure massages work for you!
Sorry if it seems as if I'm stalking you and Toby and Sean in every thread. But I kind of am  ... You all just have such great info to share! As well as so many of you here. I've never learned so much about skin and muscles etc until I came to this board! |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:42 am |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
Hermosa I can't believe you don't get a twitch at 5!! Are your pads very wet? I know if they're not, the TV is less effective...Give it another go and let me know what you think!! I need some feedback on this from someone else who's tried it! |
I did wet down the pads before using. Sometimes I feel as though my skin is impervious to just about everything (this being another example). I will give it another try, also trying the pressure points massage that JLM posted. I don't know if it does anything but it feels as though it should be! |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:50 am |
Re: visualization. It may work simply because your muscles contract slightly when you think about them. Maybe some of you have tried the trick that we used to do when we were kids? Tie a small weight to a short string, and hold the end of the string between your thumb and forefinger, propping your elbow on a hard surface so that nothing moves. Then visualize the weight swinging in a circle. If you focus on it for a few minutes, the weight will start swinging even though you are not aware that anything is moving. Concentration causes tiny muscles in your fingertips to twitch and move the weight.
So I believe that visualization can affect the small movements of tiny muscles. But would this kind of exercise have a perceptible effect on overall appearance? That is harder to accept. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:48 pm |
| mpstat wrote: |
| Sean, on another note. Do you know when FE starts shipping new FlexEffect edition? I placed a pre-order back in the first half of January, and can not wait for it to arrive. |
Sean, I found my answer. My copy should be shipped on Monday. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:25 pm |
| LondonLucyGeorge wrote: |
| Ok I've just started Facercise, and the nl's are a trouble area of mine. I got excited as Carole has an exercise specially for them, but I can't get my head round it. I've done searching on here and can't see if anyone else has asked this question. What I don't get is that she says this is a visualisation exercise, with no real movement, but then I'm wondering how do you know if your doing it correctly (or is a case like emperor's new clothes). |
I've been having a hard time with her more "visualization-based" exercises too ... that's why I'm currently doing more of a grab-bag approach in terms of facial exercise, using anything that I can actually "feel" working the muscle (whether it's other exercises from the web or here). Some of her stuff I really like - the nose shortener is awesome - but I totally agree the NL minimizer just doesn't cut it for me either.
I actually just got a delivery of surgical tape in the mail today, mainly to try and minimize my "11" (that I think has become larger from doing eye exercises) but I might try it on the NLs too. How would I do this? I'm assuming I'd smooth the line and tape over it? So I'd have two big strips of tape running from nose to mouth? Or would I tape it perpendicularly, trying to really pull that line flat (I doubt this is the case but I've been way wrong before)? |
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MissyFoster
New Member
 
Joined: 04 Feb 2010
Posts: 5
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:30 pm |
| Peggotty wrote: |
| JLM wrote: |
Oh, and one more thing: I've cut back to doing FE & Ageless to every other day-- it seems that in order to encourage the facial muscles to grow, you also want to give them enough rest to repair & rebuild. When I was doing the exercises every day, I was getting more of a sinewy, weightlifter sort of look. Cutting back has definitely softened my features.
I have also been careful with my diet as well... when I was experiencing gauntness in my face, Sean recommended upping my diet a bit with carbs & some protein & good fats... and that has helped (strangely enough, I still can't believe it) without making me gain weight. |
Yes, please let us know how the TY/accupressure massages work for you!
Sorry if it seems as if I'm stalking you and Toby and Sean in every thread. But I kind of am ... You all just have such great info to share! As well as so many of you here. I've never learned so much about skin and muscles etc until I came to this board! |
I stumbled across ageless on the net about 6 months ago. When I started, within a couple of short months I saw a different face! I mean it, it's just as the book said...not me younger, me, now, but better. It really worked for me. Like most though, I've found my NL folds getting more noticeable and I felt haggard looking...So I quit Ageless. I wonder if I should go back...I dig the logic that Ageless offers, and I am young enough that if i start now I may see a huge difference at say 42. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:18 pm |
| Hi all, I just revisited this thread and noticed that, since I posted way back about my NL grooves (due largely to a small upper palate), a lot has been added about green foods. I honestly would have thought this was a lot of wishful thinking. However, a couple of weeks ago I blogged about the fact my NL folds (particularly the deeper left-side one) had lessened quite noticeably. The only difference in my skincare/diet was the addition of Greens + and more alkali-producing foods such as yams and papaya. I actually lost four pounds in two weeks and thought that this might have reduced the size of my malar fat pads, thus reducing the fold somewhat. However, now I have read about green foods in this thread and I'm wondering if it is this. Intriguing! |
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Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:28 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| Hermosa wrote: |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| get to the useless instruction mini-handbook that comes with the TV and look at exercise 5...Of course I'm guessing where my risorius is and am using this page as a guide. |
So I dusted off the TV and dutifully flipped to exercise 5. Experienced the same futility and frustration I always feel with the TV, namely, is it positioned where it is supposed to be and are the right muscles twitching adequately in the correct direction? I couldn't even feel much on a 5 so had to dial it up to about a 7!
Providing resistance seems like a brilliant idea. It could work. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to give it another try, but will be interested to hear your results! |
Hermosa I can't believe you don't get a twitch at 5!! Are your pads very wet? I know if they're not, the TV is less effective (I figured it saves battery power to have them wet). Also I push the TV into my skin rather than have it gently laying on it (I usually have temp. marks where the pads have been which I find helpful in making sure I place them the same position on the opposite side).
I did it again last night and had a dull ache in the areas that I want to focus on so I pleased at that.
Give it another go and let me know what you think!! I need some feedback on this from someone else who's tried it! |
Miranda...I was wondering how long you work the muscles with the TV?
I use the TV almost every night but have never gotten the dull ache or muscle fatigue feeling...so how many minutes of use does it usually take for you to get that feeling? |
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Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:53 am |
Sorry MP had logged off when you posted, and only logged back on this morning (UK time). Yes I'm under the same impression that you are - that they will be shipped out on Monday (but I've just heard Eureka had another earthquake. So I'm waiting to hear for definite.
| mpstat wrote: |
| mpstat wrote: |
| Sean, on another note. Do you know when FE starts shipping new FlexEffect edition? I placed a pre-order back in the first half of January, and can not wait for it to arrive. |
Sean, I found my answer. My copy should be shipped on Monday. |
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