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Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:37 pm  |
Hi, Lacy. No, I don't use a numbing agent, and I'm absolutely sure I don't press as firmly as I would if I used one. But if I were going to go through all of that, I would be using at least a 1.0mm roller, perhaps a 1.5mm, or going to a doctor for the procedure. Hopefully, using the 0.5mm once a week as I do is doing something beneficial. It hurts like crazy and my skin is very, very sensitive afterward for about 24 hours. After that, it's plump and lineless. I thought about the effectiveness of the 0.5 roller as the skin thickens. I don't know the answer to that. I may need to go up to .75mm if it keeps thickening. At this point, it comes down to what works for each of us as individuals. I don't have any scarring to remedy, just wanted a general toning and tightening effect, which I'm achieving. I definitely feel that I am getting more "bang for my buck" as far as benefits from my products.
I do know that I am very pleased with my results. It's hard to describe in a post, but my skin is much tighter and firmer. My pores are not even visible. I had a half of an eleven ("1") that is no longer there. Any lines above my lip are 70% faded. Now all of these things were works in progress, and I had been working on them for some time, using pearl powder, peptides, retin-a, etc., but it seems that the rollers have given them the extra push necessary to complete what I was trying to achieve. I can't speak to sag or its effects on that; that's not a battle for me yet, although I do hope this deters future sagging at least a bit.
I also love what is happening with my skin when I use the LED/green tea after rolling. In just four days, I can tell a difference in texture and tone. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:59 pm |
JJ, in which age group are you if you don't mind me asking? What you are seeing is quite remarkable.
Also what I would like to work on is getting the elasticity back in my epidermis - so when I smile, the ( ) don't remain there for 1/2 after. Have you recovered your top skin elasticity or wasn't that an issue for you?
In terms of whether a .2mm or .5mm reaches the dermis, maybe sometimes this isn't always necessary for skin rejuvenation as some people only need to improve their epidermis. |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:09 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
JJ, in which age group are you if you don't mind me asking? What you are seeing is quite remarkable.
Also what I would like to work on is getting the elasticity back in my epidermis - so when I smile, the ( ) don't remain there for 1/2 after. Have you recovered your top skin elasticity or wasn't that an issue for you?
In terms of whether a .2mm or .5mm reaches the dermis, maybe sometimes this isn't always necessary for skin rejuvenation as some people only need to improve their epidermis. |
Elasticity has been something I've been trying to recover since chemo. And yes, my skin is now quite recovered in that area; it's very healthy and elasticity is no longer a concern. I know that much of the recovery is due to drybrushing and exercise. I personally am very happy improving just the epidermis with the rollers.
Miranda, I thought you knew my age because of the Ageless forum; I could have sworn you saw my pictures when they were posted. I turned 60 in September. So if I can do it, you surely can. You are a very young woman, and I believe it's not only possible but very probable that you will achieve your goals for your skin. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:20 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| In terms of whether a .2mm or .5mm reaches the dermis, maybe sometimes this isn't always necessary for skin rejuvenation as some people only need to improve their epidermis. |
Excellent point! I have been wondering the same thing. Maybe you don't have to go that deep to see results. |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:36 pm |
| Tonia wrote: |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| In terms of whether a .2mm or .5mm reaches the dermis, maybe sometimes this isn't always necessary for skin rejuvenation as some people only need to improve their epidermis. |
Excellent point! I have been wondering the same thing. Maybe you don't have to go that deep to see results. |
Tonia, I have no idea how deep I have gone, but it can't be too deep, as I'm only using 0.2mm and 0.5mm rollers. Yet I honestly have achieved noticeable improvement, and I have only been rolling since November 21, not quite a month. I've been using the 0.5 once a week and the 0.2 every day except the day after the 0.5 roll. A few times I have rolled with the 0.2 36 hours after a 0.5 roll, but normally wait 48 hours. I have no idea what the results will be down the road, but I'm loving what's happening right now with the small roller use and would highly recommend it. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:23 pm |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
Elasticity has been something I've been trying to recover since chemo. And yes, my skin is now quite recovered in that area; it's very healthy and elasticity is no longer a concern. I know that much of the recovery is due to drybrushing and exercise. I personally am very happy improving just the epidermis with the rollers.
Miranda, I thought you knew my age because of the Ageless forum; I could have sworn you saw my pictures when they were posted. I turned 60 in September. So if I can do it, you surely can. You are a very young woman, and I believe it's not only possible but very probable that you will achieve your goals for your skin. |
Oh no! I missed your photos! I love looking at people's pictures!!
Sometimes I think it's more important to work on having a strong epidermis - it holds everything together. Of course it's great to have plump dermis but that's no good if your top layer doesn't ping back into place.
JJ, I probably have thicker skin than you (as I've thankfully never been seriously ill as you have), do you believe it would be worth investing in a .2mm for daily rolling or can I use the 0.5mm for light rolling bearing in mind I have used a 1.5mm on my face without too much side-effect? (Except when I used it in conjunction with RA  ) |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:44 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
Elasticity has been something I've been trying to recover since chemo. And yes, my skin is now quite recovered in that area; it's very healthy and elasticity is no longer a concern. I know that much of the recovery is due to drybrushing and exercise. I personally am very happy improving just the epidermis with the rollers.
Miranda, I thought you knew my age because of the Ageless forum; I could have sworn you saw my pictures when they were posted. I turned 60 in September. So if I can do it, you surely can. You are a very young woman, and I believe it's not only possible but very probable that you will achieve your goals for your skin. |
Oh no! I missed your photos! I love looking at people's pictures!!
Sometimes I think it's more important to work on having a strong epidermis - it holds everything together. Of course it's great to have plump dermis but that's no good if your top layer doesn't ping back into place.
JJ, I probably have thicker skin than you (as I've thankfully never been seriously ill as you have), do you believe it would be worth investing in a .2mm for daily rolling or can I use the 0.5mm for light rolling bearing in mind I have used a 1.5mm on my face without too much side-effect? (Except when I used it in conjunction with RA ) |
Miranda, you have thicker skin than I do without question. I love the 0.2mm for daily rolling, but I still get very red from it. You could roll away and probably not change color or have any irritation, just lots of product penetration. I'm very glad I have the 0.2mm, but you don't seem to experience irritation with the 0.5mm, do you?
It would really seem to me that your 0.5mm is to you what my 0.2mm is to me - a painless way to get more products into the skin. However, I read (I think it was Dr. Liebl) that the 0.2mm is going to thicken the skin quickly. And that it has done for me. I thought my skin was really thick, just from drybrushing and exercise. But this is a whole new level. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:46 pm |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
Elasticity has been something I've been trying to recover since chemo. And yes, my skin is now quite recovered in that area; it's very healthy and elasticity is no longer a concern. I know that much of the recovery is due to drybrushing and exercise. I personally am very happy improving just the epidermis with the rollers.
Miranda, I thought you knew my age because of the Ageless forum; I could have sworn you saw my pictures when they were posted. I turned 60 in September. So if I can do it, you surely can. You are a very young woman, and I believe it's not only possible but very probable that you will achieve your goals for your skin. |
Oh no! I missed your photos! I love looking at people's pictures!!
Sometimes I think it's more important to work on having a strong epidermis - it holds everything together. Of course it's great to have plump dermis but that's no good if your top layer doesn't ping back into place.
JJ, I probably have thicker skin than you (as I've thankfully never been seriously ill as you have), do you believe it would be worth investing in a .2mm for daily rolling or can I use the 0.5mm for light rolling bearing in mind I have used a 1.5mm on my face without too much side-effect? (Except when I used it in conjunction with RA ) |
Oh Miranda JJ Beacham is a knock out...so sorry you missed her pictures. But what impresses me is she brought her skin back from looking like crinkled aluminum fold(I think that is how she described it). Chemo can be very hard on the skin from what I understand. She has many tricks up her sleeve and is extremely knowledgeable about skin care. She makes 60 look like barely 40....and I am not kidding...if she sees this she will blush  but it is true. Now for thick skin, I have that and I too have found rolling with the short needles my preference. I started rolling two years ago and got my information from a website that had been in derma rolling business for twenty years. I am not fond of the big needle rolls although I have done them. I am happier with the short for product penetration. I use the STOP and LED light for deeper collagen stimulation. |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:09 pm |
| Toby wrote: |
| JJ Beacham is a knock out...so sorry you missed her pictures. But what impresses me is she brought her skin back from looking like crinkled aluminum fold(I think that is how she described it). Chemo can be very hard on the skin from what I understand. She has many tricks up her sleeve and is extremely knowledgeable about skin care. She makes 60 look like barely 40 |
Ok, JJ, we need ALL your secrets!  |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:07 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| I do not believe anyone manufactures a 0.5 mm roller for home use. They are made strictly for use in a clinical setting. |
There are numerous brands of Dermarollers in all sizes that are sold for home use.
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| "...new collagen fibers were only found close to the corium and not deeper than 0.5 to 0.6 mm. Although the Dermaroller model MF8 has 1.5 mm long needles ..." |
I took this to mean that new collagen fibers were found at levels higher than 0.5mm - wouldn't this cover the 0.5mm roller which penetrates to 0.3mm? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:09 pm |
Please, would some of you with scientific minds take a look at this article...it seems to say that cells communicate with each other quite a bit more than we realize...I wonder if that is what's happening with the shorter needled rollers...other cells deeper in the skin send reserves to the cells closer to the surface when they hear the cry for help.
The article also talks alot about light and I thought the LED users would be interested.
Mary
http://www.viewzone.com/dna.html |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:39 pm |
| What brand Dermarollers are you using and where did you purchase them? Sorry if you have stated this before. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:27 pm |
Hi jjbeacham
where do you get your rollers? I got mine from dr-roller.eu but they seem to have cracked at the sides even thoughI dont use them often. The plastic cracked.
Do you use the led directly after rolling? I know people in acne org are doing that to get rid of their acne scars I think the same principle applies because collagen is induced. |
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23yr old Asian with combination skin prone to clogged pores. hyperpigmentation from pimples. uneven skintone, scars |
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narusu
New Member
 
Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:00 am |
| I personally think that 0.2mm or 0.5mm help with collagen production through high dose of actives penetrating into the skin. We use vitamin a and vitamin c to maintain and improve our skin by stimulating collagen production. It's true that 0.2mm or 0.5mm roller can help increase absorption rate so it's still true that 0.2mm or 0.5mm roller can help produce more collagen but we just have to choose the right active. |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:46 am |
| faeriedust wrote: |
Hi jjbeacham
where do you get your rollers? I got mine from dr-roller.eu but they seem to have cracked at the sides even thoughI dont use them often. The plastic cracked.
Do you use the led directly after rolling? I know people in acne org are doing that to get rid of their acne scars I think the same principle applies because collagen is induced. |
Faeriedust, I bought the original Dermaroller at my plastic surgeon's office about the same time the Leaf & Rusher rollers came out, years ago and just never used it. After reading the huge Dermaroller thread here, I got it out and loved it. (BTW, I have never had cosmetic surgery, he's my doc for breast reconstruction after cancer). It's the 0.2mm roller. The 0.5mm I bought two of, thinking the needles would wear down. I have the 0.5mm roller from Derma-roller.com (it's called the Scientia roller and I think it's much like the Dr. Roller - they look the same) and I have a cheap one from eBay, which is the one I really love. The seller sells equipment to estheticians and is very knowledgeable; after chatting via email, I decided to try one of her rollers, and I love it! This is the el cheapo roller: http://cgi.ebay.com/Micro-Needle-Skin-Care-Collagen-Induction-0-5mm_W0QQitemZ150383674791QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSkin_Care_test?hash=item230390c5a7 . I also have a three-line roller I haven't used much and am really not crazy about. It's 0.5mm but way too prickly for my undereye area. I'm hoping to be able to use it in time.
What I do with the LED is this: wash face and neck, let dry, drybrush face and neck. Spray face and neck with green tea, roll face with 0.2mm roller, spray with green tea every 5 minutes for 20 minutes. Use LED 1 to 3 minutes per area (cheeks, chin, upper lip, forehead, neck), respraying each section as I start on it. I am always careful to cover the thyroid and I wear the little goggles used on tanning beds. The green tea spray I am using is just brewed green tea made with distilled water, with 1/8 tsp. of Green Tea Extract with EGCG from Skinactives.com added to my little 2-ounce spray bottle, which I keep refrigerated. I make a new bottle every 3 days.
I leave the green tea on, and apply my Ester-C and any other actives I'm using, then sunscreen. I have done this daily for 4 days and it really makes the skin look super-toned and tight. The first day I did this, I rolled with my 0.5mm roller, which would normally make my face swell for 24 hours. It didn't swell at ALL! That proved to me how powerful the LED is. However, I intend to use the LED treatment after rolling with my 0.2mm roller, since that's the one I use on a daily basis. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:52 am |
| narusu wrote: |
| I personally think that 0.2mm or 0.5mm help with collagen production through high dose of actives penetrating into the skin. We use vitamin a and vitamin c to maintain and improve our skin by stimulating collagen production. It's true that 0.2mm or 0.5mm roller can help increase absorption rate so it's still true that 0.2mm or 0.5mm roller can help produce more collagen but we just have to choose the right active. |
Narusu, I agree with you completely! I also think it is vitally important to take oral Vitamin C daily to help with the creation of collagen. Another thing I have started doing is adding amino acids to my Vitamin C and A that I apply topically. I use hydrolyzed pearl powder in distilled water for this, as well as my peptide creams. Here is a nice article about amino acids and peptides: http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/aminoacids.html |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:53 am |
Toby, you are so sweet to say such nice things, and yes, I am blushing!  You know me too well. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:57 am |
| MaryClaire wrote: |
Please, would some of you with scientific minds take a look at this article...it seems to say that cells communicate with each other quite a bit more than we realize...I wonder if that is what's happening with the shorter needled rollers...other cells deeper in the skin send reserves to the cells closer to the surface when they hear the cry for help.
The article also talks alot about light and I thought the LED users would be interested.
Mary
http://www.viewzone.com/dna.html |
Mary, this is beyond fascinating! I'm going to read it in depth later today, but I have already sent this article to several friends who were very intrigued by it. If you run across any more articles of this nature, please please post them. Thanks so much for this one. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:57 pm |
JJ, thank you for posting your protocol! That looks like a great way of doing the LED.
I have the .25 Dr. Roller and the 1. that I haven't gotten the nerve to use yet. I was afraid of ordering the el cheapo because of the scary stories that I've heard but your recommendation means a lot.
Is your el cheapo a .2 or a .5? That is really a great price. I may try it. Thank you for posting the link. |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:25 pm |
| Tonia wrote: |
JJ, thank you for posting your protocol! That looks like a great way of doing the LED.
I have the .25 Dr. Roller and the 1. that I haven't gotten the nerve to use yet. I was afraid of ordering the el cheapo because of the scary stories that I've heard but your recommendation means a lot.
Is your el cheapo a .2 or a .5? That is really a great price. I may try it. Thank you for posting the link. |
My el cheapo is a 0.5mm, but she carries all lengths. I may order her .25mm just because I am so crazy about the 0.5. She went into great detail with me about my skin, even asking if I had done chemical peels, and what she recommended turned out to be perfect. She does dermarolling herself and I could tell from our email conversations that she knew what she was talking about. I was going to order the .75mm from her, but I'm so glad I didn't, and very glad I listened to her. Maybe I'll be able to work up to that, but I think it would be too much right now. That little roller is so well made and I love everything about it. I will definitely order any new rollers from her. She shipped immediately too. |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:01 pm |
Thanks for starting this thread JJB! It really seems that rolling is the way forward. You're having such wonderful results in such a short time that now I'm thinking that I should be doing the shorter needle lengths too!
I've done three rolls with the 1.5 Dr Roller and the effects so far are that my pores are slightly tighter and some scars that I have are slowly remodelling themselves. Over on the acne.org scar section it seems that most people start to see quite significant results after their fourth roll. And as faeriedust already pointed out, many are using leds in combination with dermarolling.
Rolling really isn't that much fun  , but during the 6 week interval I'm often itching to do another one! weird!
I keep hearing how new collagen is quite fragile, and am wondering if it would be ok to use the 0.5mm in between the deeper rolls, or if it is best to stick to the 0.2/0.25 for product penetration. Any thoughts? |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:16 pm |
| neondaze wrote: |
Thanks for starting this thread JJB! It really seems that rolling is the way forward. You're having such wonderful results in such a short time that now I'm thinking that I should be doing the shorter needle lengths too!
I've done three rolls with the 1.5 Dr Roller and the effects so far are that my pores are slightly tighter and some scars that I have are slowly remodelling themselves. Over on the acne.org scar section it seems that most people start to see quite significant results after their fourth roll. And as faeriedust already pointed out, many are using leds in combination with dermarolling.
Rolling really isn't that much fun , but during the 6 week interval I'm often itching to do another one! weird!
I keep hearing how new collagen is quite fragile, and am wondering if it would be ok to use the 0.5mm in between the deeper rolls, or if it is best to stick to the 0.2/0.25 for product penetration. Any thoughts? |
Neondaze, if had to tackle any type of scar, I would be doing exactly what you are doing. I think it would be fine to use the 0.5mm in between the deeper rolls. Keliu uses hers every day, I believe. The lady who sold me my cheap roller lives in Florida and she has an olive complexion. She uses her 0.5 for product penetration. So I think it comes down to how thick your skin is. Mine has thickened up a lot, but I'm fair-skinned and my skin is sensitive to rolling. I will normally have hives and itching from rolling, even when rolling with the 0.2 if I use extra pressure. I finally found jewelweed spray to relieve that, but just ordered jewelweed cream to see how I like that and will report on it when I've used it. I definitely think that rolling with the shorter needles is very beneficial and I don't believe it will disturb your new collagen. If you are rolling in Vitamins A & C, it would probably help it.
Another thing to remember is that no matter what length your needles are, you can always get more out of a roll by going back and forth 10 times versus the 4-5 times (in the star pattern) I normally roll with my 0.2 roller. And you can use more pressure. So taking all of that into consideration, I would say that if you have normal thick skin, you should be fine with the 0.5. If you have fair, more fragile, or thin skin, use the 0.25. 0.5mm sounds like a very short needle length, but compared to my 0.2, the 0.5 is a torture device!
Rolling with the shorter needles is fun and you can actually feel the products penetrate. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:24 pm |
| JJ - I don't use the 0.5 every day, maybe once a week. But I do roll my upper lip more frequently. I've just bought a 0.2, so I'll probably use that everday. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:35 pm |
Oh, thank you for posting this link! Dr. Liebl's Dermaroller is my 0.2mm roller. I am familiar with the Dermaroller peptide products and I'm sure they are wonderful. But I think any good peptide product would be just as effective. I am really wanting to try the Environ line by Dr. Fernandes. It's full of extra Vit. A and C in several different strengths and is made for rolling. However, you have to purchase this through a skin care professional. Here's a link to a page showing results using the roller with the Environ products - very impressive! http://www.dermaconcepts.com/clinical ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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