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Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:32 pm  |
Merry, you're so welcome! I would be careful applying retin-a directly after using a 1.5mm, since that size roller is for deep rolling and the needles will actually reach the dermis. I'm afraid the retin-a would do more harm than good if used immediately after a roll with that bad boy!  ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:44 pm |
| Merrylass wrote: |
| I'm still a little confused even after reading the various dermarolling threads. My question is: when you roll for product penetration, is there a wait time between applying the product and rolling? |
Just thought I would pipe in with what Environ recommends and that is no wait time. You apply your products immediately after rolling. However, they are not talking about any acids or Retin A. They are talking about the C and A derivatives only. |
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Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:03 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Merrylass wrote: |
| I'm still a little confused even after reading the various dermarolling threads. My question is: when you roll for product penetration, is there a wait time between applying the product and rolling? |
Just thought I would pipe in with what Environ recommends and that is no wait time. You apply your products immediately after rolling. However, they are not talking about any acids or Retin A. They are talking about the C and A derivatives only. |
Riley, thanks! I think I read that about applying products first and then rolling on the Australian site. I know that I feel it far more when I apply immediately after rolling. If I apply a product and then roll, I don't feel anything, so I much prefer applying right after rolling. So glad you piped in! |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:24 pm |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
| Riley, thanks! I think I read that about applying products first and then rolling on the Australian site. I know that I feel it far more when I apply immediately after rolling. If I apply a product and then roll, I don't feel anything, so I much prefer applying right after rolling. So glad you piped in! |
I'm glad you're glad, JJ! I have tried both ways as well, and am with you. I feel more when I apply products afterward, too! |
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:08 pm |
I started rolling this week. First time user - I have a .5 roller. It was fine actually as I was expecting a magnigicent torture device. It looked quite small and disarming.... Ha. Well we are still friends after three rolls but my respect has definitely increased.
First two times it smarts a bit and I wasn't pressing as hard as I could, but I did press. The third time I used the climax spray from All Day Chemist (yes, it is supposedly for a different purpose) anyway it decreases the ouch factor and I probably rolled a bit more intensely due to using it.
I also took jj's advice to use some Skinactive products (Marine Nutrient Serum or Let's Make collagen) applied to roll in.
Afterward (20-30 min.) I put on the antioxidant serum from Skinactives. A few hours later I wash with OCM and then do the retin A or CP protocal with ELS after. Those serums do plump the face up. It's nice.
I am new to dermarolling and do it because it scientifically makes sense to enhance penetration of topicals. At this point can't say it is certain in delivering anything beyond what might already be there but I will continue and report things as I see them. I can say my skin is moist and looks soft and glowy.
I believe in continually changing and revising what you do and keeping your face (musculature, collagen, cells, entire dermal structure) in a state of change so as to keep things hopping in a good way. Massage, dermarolling, facial exercise and a skin care regime of antioxidant cocktails and anti-aging is our friend. I consider the rolling to be a positive adjunct in an ever-expanding repertoire of tricks. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:13 pm |
Yes I think I might pull out my old (but still new) .5 Dr Roller and use it for when I apply my copper peptides. I'm using them on my face, neck, chest, arms and thighs. Whew might take me some time.  Lucky I'm only using the CP's every 2nd morning at this stage.
Is everyone using the 10 pass star pattern for product penetration, or is that not so important? |
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Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:41 pm |
| Thanks Mishey - I would like to know what the number of passes back and forth which might be optimal - The directions show a star pattern but the number of rolls each way I am not sure about. I've been doing four each way which if you count back and forth separately becomes eight total. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:18 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
I believe in continually changing and revising what you do and keeping your face (musculature, collagen, cells, entire dermal structure) in a state of change so as to keep things hopping in a good way. Massage, dermarolling, facial exercise and a skin care regime of antioxidant cocktails and anti-aging is our friend. I consider the rolling to be a positive adjunct in an ever-expanding repertoire of tricks. |
Hi Sis,
I absolutely agree with you. I've dropped regular gadgets and regimes on the whim of others and then returned to my regulars to find them even more powerful than before (vaculift especially). I think alternating what you apply topically with rolling is also the way to go.
Glad to hear you've initiated yourself into the weird and wonderful world of dermarolling! |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:24 am |
Hi Miranda,
I have just gone back to my vaculifter, as I didn't notice anything remarkable the first time. I was wondering if perhaps I wasn't using it to the greatest effect, so thought I'd ask on here how others were using it.
What technique do you find to tbe the most effective ?
Jackie xx |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:16 am |
| Jackie284 wrote: |
Hi Miranda,
I have just gone back to my vaculifter, as I didn't notice anything remarkable the first time. I was wondering if perhaps I wasn't using it to the greatest effect, so thought I'd ask on here how others were using it.
What technique do you find to tbe the most effective ?
Jackie xx |
Hi Jackie,
Most people enjoy the smaller more powerful 'face size 2' but I know some have found it too powerful (doesn't move) so I guess if your skin is loose you need a less powerful size 1. I use the size 2 and zip it round after applying hempseed oil before my morning cleansing. I try to follow the basics I learnt from the Tanaka massage for the movement directions. I do it most mornings but took a break for a month in Dec when I concentrated solely on the Tanaka. When I returned to it in Jan, my skin seemed to flourish (and thicken!).
Apologies for OT conversation! |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:58 am |
| thanks Miranda xx |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:58 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Thanks Mishey - I would like to know what the number of passes back and forth which might be optimal - The directions show a star pattern but the number of rolls each way I am not sure about. I've been doing four each way which if you count back and forth separately becomes eight total. |
Thanks Sis...it looks like a long time indeed then. Maybe I'll do different parts of the body on different days to ensure everything gets rolled once a week. Yep I think I'll start with that and see how it goes. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:21 am |
You guys have the hang of it. I don't think this will be or should be quite the same for any of us. 
What I have done from the beginning is a light roll up to twice a day and then a deeper roll once every 7-10 days. The light roll I do with my 0.25mm roller, and if I do a quick roll in the morning, I zip around my face going back and forth in the star pattern on each cheek, half the forehead at a time, half of mouth/chin area at a time, upper lip and between the brows. A couple of rolls up and down and across each side of the neck are all my neck can handle in the a.m. Those light rolls are 4-5 times each way. One roll constitutes both up and down, so yes, 8-10 actual passes over the area.
At night, I roll any areas of concern (corners of mouth, crowsfeet area, between brows, upper lip) to be sure my strong actives penetrate. These I do with my 0.25mm roller and I do 10 times in each direction in the star pattern If I am using retin-a, I wait at least an hour before applying, or use a retinol product instead. If using copper peptides, I apply immediately. I also roll lightly under the eyes about 2-3 times across and 2-3 times down in sections before applying my TNS. If using MD Forte, I do 1-2 swipes and that's it.
My "deep" rolls are with my 0.5mm roller and I do these once a week. When I do these, I section my face much more carefully (cheeks in 3 parts, forehead in 4 parts, etc.), do my entire neck and chin area, and I use the star pattern 10 times in each direction with more pressure than in my daily rolls. I use Vitamin C and retinyl palmitate for this roll and have used CP's a couple of times. This is the roll that, for me, gives lots of redness and swelling for 24 hours. And once the swelling is gone, my face is wonderful for 2-3 days.
My skin is thick (still drybrushing in a.m. and p.m., & have graduated to Bernard Jensen complexion brush with tougher natural bristles), but it is still prone to hives on the bonier areas, such as high on the cheekbones. So truly, it's whatever your skin can handle, and there are no hard and fast rules, IMO. However, for product penetration, the general advice is to roll anywhere from 4-5 times up to 10-15 times in the star pattern. HTH! ~ JJ |
_________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:38 am |
Thanks so much jj for that indepth answer.
I don't have a smaller roller than the .5 so will use that lightly. And I may just do only minimal passes on the arms and thighs and see how it goes. And when I get a free day go at those areas more thoroughly.
Thanks again. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:54 am |
| Mishey wrote: |
Thanks so much jj for that indepth answer.
I don't have a smaller roller than the .5 so will use that lightly. And I may just do only minimal passes on the arms and thighs and see how it goes. And when I get a free day go at those areas more thoroughly.
Thanks again. |
Mishey, the lady who sold me my roller is, I think, quite knowledgeable about them, and she recommended to me to use a .75mm roller on the arms. Now that is because she is familiar with my skin after about 1000 emails so I don't know if anyone else needs a longer needle on the arms. Also, don't use quite as much pressure on your chest as on other areas as the chest skin is so close to bone and you can easily go past the amount of inflammation you want to produce there into an actual wound. This I learned the hard way, with just my 0.5mm roller and a bit more pressure than normal. Of course, you may have much more tough, resilient skin (like I wish I had!) - this was just my own experience. HTH! ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:32 pm |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
| Mishey wrote: |
Thanks so much jj for that indepth answer.
I don't have a smaller roller than the .5 so will use that lightly. And I may just do only minimal passes on the arms and thighs and see how it goes. And when I get a free day go at those areas more thoroughly.
Thanks again. |
Mishey, the lady who sold me my roller is, I think, quite knowledgeable about them, and she recommended to me to use a .75mm roller on the arms. Now that is because she is familiar with my skin after about 1000 emails so I don't know if anyone else needs a longer needle on the arms. Also, don't use quite as much pressure on your chest as on other areas as the chest skin is so close to bone and you can easily go past the amount of inflammation you want to produce there into an actual wound. This I learned the hard way, with just my 0.5mm roller and a bit more pressure than normal. Of course, you may have much more tough, resilient skin (like I wish I had!) - this was just my own experience. HTH! ~ JJ |
Thanks jj. I've rolled my chest with the 1.5 roller a few times, but know that I'm sensitive there as I've broken out in hives afterwards before. So I'll roll very lightly there. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:48 pm |
Another question for the experts.... Are you numbing your face jj before the .5 roll? And do you use alcohol to disinfect after and before use (on the roller?)
Also the instructions that came with the roller more or less imply that the roller is only good for a handful of rolls at most. That would get terribly expensive. Your thoughts? What do you all do? |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:20 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Another question for the experts.... Are you numbing your face jj before the .5 roll? And do you use alcohol to disinfect after and before use (on the roller?)
Also the instructions that came with the roller more or less imply that the roller is only good for a handful of rolls at most. That would get terribly expensive. Your thoughts? What do you all do? |
Sis, I'm certainly no expert (that is SO funny!), but here's what I do. Since I know that the 0.5mm roller effects my skin probably like a .75mm or a 1.0mm does everyone else, I do always disinfect that roller after I use it. Anything that causes that much redness and swelling needs to be sterile, IMO, even though it doesn't make me bleed. Prior to rolling with that one, I also put some alcohol on a cotton pad and wipe my face with it. After letting it sit in alcohol for five minutes (after the roll), I rinse the roller in hot running water, let the it air-dry and then place it back in its case.
However, I don't do all of these things when using the 0.2mm roller. I just lightly use this one once or twice a day and I clean it every other day. I'm always using it on a clean face and then I apply the product, not beforehand.
I've been using my 0.2mm very often, and it has not yet lost its effectiveness. Nor has the 0.5mm, but I've only used that once a week at the most. Some of the rollers, particularly those made for product penetration (the short needles), claim to last for 18 months. I'm truly learning right along with everyone else, but at this point, I don't yet need to replace a roller. I have been rolling a little more than two months. HTH! ~ JJ |
_________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Another question for the experts.... Are you numbing your face jj before the .5 roll? And do you use alcohol to disinfect after and before use (on the roller?)
Also the instructions that came with the roller more or less imply that the roller is only good for a handful of rolls at most. That would get terribly expensive. Your thoughts? What do you all do? |
Ooops - sorry, Sis. I missed the part about numbing my face. No, I don't do that; I don't even use ice on it. Since I am still having such a reaction without numbing, I was trying to acclimate my skin to rolling with that size roller before proceeding with more pressure or with numbing. I know without a doubt that if I were to numb or use more pressure, the 0.5mm could cause blood spots on me. I've been so happy with the results I've been getting I'm not really sure that I want to do that. I have posted about getting hives when I roll, and I'm sort of thankful about that, because it's kept me from jumping headlong into something I wasn't ready for. So far, I am doing what's perfect for me (for once )!!! |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:18 pm |
At the request of jj I am cross posting this here.
It's all just a google away!
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/dermarollerSANITIZ-t219016.html
I really hate to cross post to an outside forum but I think the subject of sanitizing your dermaroller can not be overly stressed.
The following link will bring to a woman who contracted staph infection from her dermaroller even though she thought she was fully sanitizing the unit with hydrogen peroxide.
Her quote,
"Hi all of my lovely posters!
I am back from a little over a week stay in the hospital. I wanted to report the horrific staff infection I obtained from my derma roller. Even though I used peroxide to clean my roller, I ended up with a horrific infection. I am not on anti anxiety meds and have to follow up with the infectious disease doctor here in my town. I was on IV "strong" antibiotics constant throughout my stay at the hospital.
I will post pictures later if you would like. My right side of my face was as large as a grapefruit. I am not here to alarm you--but here to warn you about the sanitizing of the dermarollers.
I was told by many medical professionals---my husband's collegues that this instrument should be placed in an autoclave--not just peroxide.
I am still very week---but I will try to answer any questions you may have.
XXHallie"
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a...52/m/3390047485
HTH
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:36 pm |
DM, thank you so much! DM's post concerns a woman who was not properly sterilizing her roller and ended up being hospitalized for a staph infection.
I have been using rubbing alcohol to clean my rollers, but after reading this, I am going to clean them with a 1/2 water 1/2 bleach solution for 3-4 minutes, as recommended by one of the posters on one of the above forums. Most of us on this thread use short needles and I, for one, never draw blood. However, it makes sense to me to use all precautions available.
I asked DM to post this here so that we could all read it and make our own choices. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:42 pm |
What do you guys think about using the Derma Wand on the skin after a roll to help w/ sterilization? Don't they use microcurrent machines post-extractions in a facial at spas for that purpose?
(This is not intended to be used instead of the other cleansingsteralizing methods, just as an adjunct) |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:57 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
What do you guys think about using the Derma Wand on the skin after a roll to help w/ sterilization? Don't they use microcurrent machines post-extractions in a facial at spas for that purpose?
(This is not intended to be used instead of the other cleansingsteralizing methods, just as an adjunct) |
Foxe, my sister is a licensed esthetician practicing here: http://www.waterfallcountryclub.com/ . I'm going to email her and I'll post her reply. She also has her own spa at her home for private clients, and I know that she uses several methods of sterilization. I'm going to see what she recommends. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:02 pm |
| Great! Thanks jj |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:48 pm |
Unbelievable!!! DM, thank you for posting that. I will definitely be more careful now.
I have been using alcohol. I put it in a spray bottle and spritz the roller before and after use. I thought alcohol was the strongest disinfectant. JJ, you mentioned switching to 1/2 water and 1/2 bleach. Is that better?
The place where your sister works looks divine. |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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