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Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:50 am |
JLM wrote: |
This is a bit of a silly question, considering that the title of this thread is called "Dermarolling for Product Penetration"-- but I was wondering whether anyone had seen results just by using a small needle roller without using any product? |
Hi Jean,
I've started rolling my hands with my 0.2mm and as I don't have a good quality hand-cream that I'd want to absorb deeper, I'm not adding any topicals after. I'm also using this as an experiment to see what happens (although just realised I should have done only one hand for true result comparisons ). But I too wonder if epidermis rolling has the wound-repair effect - I'm sure there are articles that say it does / doesn't (before anyone cuts & pastes) but there's nothing like seeing it for yourself - and then reporting back here. Only done two rolls, will report back in a few months! |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:10 am |
foxe wrote: |
I had my first roll with my new .2 roller and it did not go so well for me.
Rolling my forehead caused me to sneeze, my eyes to tear and my nose to run. It also hurt and I had a few blood spots. I had quite a few more blood spots above my lip as well. And my face looked beet red when I finished (only lasted an hour). Phew! This reminds me of rolling w/ my 1.5 over a year ago.
Did anyone have this kind of reaction with the smaller roller?
If so, did your skin react less to it over time with more rolls? |
My forehead is my sensitive spot and I sneeze like crazy even with my 0.2mm, eyes & nose running. It doesn't even hurt that much (unlike 0.5 & 1.5mm) but still I get this reaction. I did a roll last night with 0.2mm and also look very red after and although I don't even feel the needles on the lower part of my face, I managed to get 3 blood spots! (Which is a first with the 0.2mm.) However Foxe if you roll again with your 1.5mm, I'm sure you'll agree that it's very different from rolling with a small roller. I almost faint with the 1.5mm! |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:21 am |
Yeah, although I realize that short-needle rollers don't reach the dermis, I was just wondering whether people saw some effect on their skin, just by using the short-needle roller by themselves. After all, facial massage can also be quite helpful, and that does not break the skin barrier at all. I suppose I'm wondering whether any positive results from using a short-needle roller should mostly be attributed to the stimulation provided by the roller itself, rather than deeper product penetration. Just wondering.
(I have not yet used a short-needle roller, although I think I'm going to purchase today! I've only used the 1.5mm, about 6x in 6 months.) |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:42 am |
Miranda - thanks for that information (and I hope others will chirp in!).
I'd really like to know if it will get any better - less of a reaction. Hopefully, if the skin is being rebuilt, it will 'thicken' up and react less?? Keeping my fingers crossed on that one.
riley and sis - I'm more concerned about the sneezing and other reactions than the redness now. (Kinda figured out what happened and it was the ACV - applied some post roll too. Duh!) I'm always on a learning curve it seems.... Thankfully, the redness was shortlived.
Can't remember what was said about this, but can you use a LED after rolling or is that counterproductive? Geezz - where do I fit it all in? |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:03 am |
Foxe, what exactly is worrying you about the sneezing? |
_________________ Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:12 am |
it's annoying and increases the time it takes to roll. and I had to stop frequently to blow my nose and dry my eyes too. grrrr! |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:17 am |
Oh, I see. I thought you might think it was a sign of something sinister. I have a similar irritation with my "sneeze nerve" which sits of the left hand side of my scalp. I just have to touch it with my fingernail and I'm off. The problem is, sometimes it sets itself off when I am applying mascara. You can imagine the mess... I also sneeze when doing my forehead, especially near the eyebrows. |
_________________ Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:54 pm |
Foxe, I had a strong reaction to the .25 the first 3 times I used it. My skin was lobster red for hours, it hurt like crazy and I kept sneezing while I was rolling. By the fourth and fifth time, my skin had toughened up a little. I used it about 5 times before trying the 1mm. I know it sounds crazy but using the 1mm for the first time felt the same to me as the first time I used the .25. I got about the same amount of blood and irritation.
My skin got used to the .25 over time but it still hurts a little and I still draw blood every time I use it. People talk about the .25 and the 1mm like they are a world of difference but they don't feel much different to me. |
_________________ I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:30 pm |
Antonia wrote: |
The problem is, sometimes it sets itself off when I am applying mascara. You can imagine the mess... |
Sorry Antonio for laughing but that's so funny!! Yes I can imagine the mess! Must be a real pain when you're on the final lap to getting ready and then have to de-smudge your mascara. |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:31 pm |
That is true, Tonia. I feel them both the same. I have a question which other rollers may be able to answer here. When I roll with the 1.0 (in fact with any needle size) my skin is forced towards the bones by the compounded pressure of the spikes (a bit like when someone walks across a bed of nails, but isn't pirced by the nails). Therefore, I am not at all sure if there is significant enough penetration to reach the dermis. Does anyone else experience this? I've been pushing back with my tongue, but I can't reach all areas. |
_________________ Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:03 pm |
foxe wrote: |
Miranda - thanks for that information (and I hope others will chirp in!).
I'd really like to know if it will get any better - less of a reaction. Hopefully, if the skin is being rebuilt, it will 'thicken' up and react less?? Keeping my fingers crossed on that one.
riley and sis - I'm more concerned about the sneezing and other reactions than the redness now. (Kinda figured out what happened and it was the ACV - applied some post roll too. Duh!) I'm always on a learning curve it seems.... Thankfully, the redness was shortlived.
Can't remember what was said about this, but can you use a LED after rolling or is that counterproductive? Geezz - where do I fit it all in? |
Go back to Page 4 of this thread foxe; dermarolling followed by LED treatment is discussed there. The general consensus was YES it can/should be done. (Apparently this is what the professionals do after dermarolling). |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:57 pm |
Antonia, we've been having a discussion about this on the regular dermarolling thread. I recently purchased a new roller that doesn't fully penetrate my skin. The needles go in a little bit but not fully. I ordered it on ebay. It is a clear handle with a green roller. I have two Dr. Rollers that fully penetrate so I knew something was wrong when my new 1.5 didn't hurt as much as my .25 roller does. It would push in on my skin just like you described but the needles weren't going in all the way. I rolled it on my arm and looked at it from the side to confirm that it wasn't fully penetrating my skin no matter how much pressure I applied. I contacted the seller and she is sending a replacement. |
_________________ I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:06 pm |
Thanks Tonia (this is like talking to myself, haha). I will mosey on over there and check it out. I have a roller that really doesn't seem to be up to scratch, if you'll pardon the pun. It's a ZGTS that I got on eBay. |
_________________ Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:16 pm |
Tonia - your roller with the clear handle and green head sounds like the ones I just got from owndoc.com and they tested 3 diff ones and found this model to be 'the best'
can you look on the owndoc website and see if yours is the same? |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:17 pm |
Lacy53 wrote: |
Go back to Page 4 of this thread foxe; dermarolling followed by LED treatment is discussed there. The general consensus was YES it can/should be done. (Apparently this is what the professionals do after dermarolling). |
Thanks lacy - I'll do that. Hopefully its OK to use after a short needle roll. I would still question it after a longer needle roll, though. |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:39 pm |
Foxe - I've used my LED before I roll and I've used it after I roll. When I use it before rolling I
apply a pre-LED green tea serum
let soak in for about 15-20 minutes.
I also spritz green tea and pat dry
Use light.
Then roll
Add antioxidants mixed with ELS from SA.
When I've used it after rolling
I've put on Marine nutrient serum and rolled it in and then used the light.
Or
Use a green tea spritz, let soak for 10 minutes
or so and then light. This still keeps the window for the open channels in the skin so you can douse them good with all the antioxidants and helpful lipids. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:07 am |
I received the MTS roller cleaning "system" in the mail today.
The cleaning ingredient is alcohol LOL
At least I got a nicely sized pad to roll the roller in, in order to cleaner it better.
I think I'll stick with my povidone iodine, thank you!
BF |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:28 am |
BF - Did it come with products too?
Interesting that they suggest alcohol. I admit that's what I'm still using. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:01 am |
I just ordered the "cleaning system" - liquid and a pad with a sponge in it to roll the roller in - kind of like an old fashioned ink pad.
I think my homemade solution is better!
BF |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:27 pm |
Thanks for the input about the use of the LED before and after your rolls, sistersweets. I'm still not sure if I'll do that yet. Maybe try the first week without and see how it goes. I'm still trying to figure out how everythings going to fit in.
I used my Dermawand before and after a roll today for the 'cleansing' effect it can have as an extra precaution. I also used Witch Hazel(w/ a drop of Tea Tree oil) before and just water after this time.
In fact, today (my 2nd roll with the .2) I did NOT have the terrible itching and sneezing/waterey eyes and nose like I did the first time. Either it's because my skin is already getting use to it or perhaps it was my NOT using the ACV toner before. Either way, I might stick to this routine for now. Still got pretty red though. |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:30 pm |
Boy O Boy! I went to page 4 like Lacy suggested and realized I have a lot of catching up to do on some reading. I missed a lot of stuff when I was have breakouts all last year and skipped over all the rolling threads since I knew I couldn't do it at the time.
Back to do some catch-up reading... |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:53 pm |
Foxe, the defective dermaroller looks exactly like the one on owndoc.com. I got my replacement today and it is much better. It does penetrate my skin. I have to push really hard to get the needles all the way in but they will go in. Does anyone else have to apply a lot of pressure to get the 1.5 to fully penetrate the skin? I have to say, I much prefer my Dr. Rollers. They are more expensive but I don't have to apply as much pressure and I think they work better. |
_________________ I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 am |
The roller from owndoc.com and that I bought from Jaysun on eBay is the MTS roller. Here is the MTS website:
http://www.microneedle.com/main/mts-personal.html
It comes inside a clear case. The outer cardboard box says Microneedle Therapy System by Clinical Resolution.
There seems to be some confusion over another brand which also has a clear plastic handle and green plastic roller barrel. I am currently using the MTS roller (.5mm) and I am happy with it. |
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Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:15 am |
Mine is an MTS roller. It even has the triangle above the M like on the wesite. It says Microneedle Therapy System on the box too. The only difference I can see is that mine is green and the one on the website is blue. |
_________________ I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:23 pm |
Mine is MTS - blue roller. It's working great. And it was a cheapie. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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