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Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:39 am  |
I thought TMJ was where the jaw gets misaligned, and would suspect that you need to get help with that from a professional, but I’m not so sure from what I read that Carolyn’s exercises could cause that in itself. Did you mention that to her specifically as I’m sure she would have been able to give you advice.
With the nose and mouth overbuild, I know she does ask for photos to help lay out a specific plan of action. So its probably worth while having photos taken and sending to her, and then she can tell you specific advice. How long have you not don anything?
When you say you don’t like how CFF lifted and opened your eyes, could you be specific as to what you don’t like? I mean do you mean the skin around the eye itself lifting?
| cameronfrye wrote: |
I am pretty sure I got TMJ while doing CFF. I might have opened my mouth too wide during some of the exercises. I am not sure exactly which exercise caused the problem.
I did contact Carolyn about my nose and the overbuild of the mouth. She was really nice, but she couldn't really give me any specific advice since I didn't have any photos to show her. =/ She did tell me that my face will get back to normal in few months. So I am waiting.
But now that I am thinking about it, I really don't know if it was actual overbuild of the mouth or my nasolabial lines just getting worse by extending down to the corners of my mouth. It was weird because my cheeks were getting bigger and higher, but my nasolabial lines were getting worse and I started having sort of an ape look around my mouth? Anyway, that ape look has mostly faded away, but my lower face is looking saggier than before I started doing CFF. Well, I didn't even have that much sag in the lower face area in the first place. So I am still trying to figure out what exactly caused that. I did like how CFF lifted and opened up my eyes though. =)
I don't know, sometimes I am so unhappy with my face now that I am tempted to try other programs or even try CFF again (not including the nose exercises), but I am afraid how it's going to end up looking. And my TMJ will probably get worse too. =/ |
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Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:36 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Which exercise are you referring to, that works the entire jawline? I don't recall an exercise in the third edition that works several muscles of the jawline at once.
Also, cheek press targets the buccinators...I don't think there are any other muscles that it targets, but if the technique is not good, then yes, the mouth muscle (orbicularis oris) can jump in...but the *intent* of the exercise is just to focus on the buccinators. |
If you look at the Cheek Press Exercise, there is a second paragraph where Deb says to engage all the facial muscles and lists chin, eyes and other muscles – so unless I’m very much mistaken (which is of course possible) I would think that’s more than just the buccinators and mouth muscle? One of the new exercises does target all the jawline muscles – as I know I phoned her one time to ask a question and the 3rd edition wasn’t available at that point but she told me about one exercise that targets all what she called I think were accessory muscles that go along the jawline (not limited to triangularis). Think its called Triangularis, where you press in either side of the chin, and then contract everything? |
Hey TheresaMary,
Yes, I think you are accidentally mistaken here  . The FlexEffect 3rd edition specifically says that Cheek Press targets the buccinators on p. 141. It doesn't say any other muscles are involved.
If you turn the page, on page 142, it says that as a *variation* for exercise 17b you can "begin tightening the chin, jaw, upper cheeks, eyes and forward. Use your palms in the same manner as above. This variation increases circulation by using a greater number of muscle fibers making it even more beneficial for skin."
But intrinsically, you can see that the Cheek Press and all three variants target only the buccinators.
I'm not sure what this second exercise is that you said targets the entire jawline, as I don't see it in the FlexEffect book.
But I did see in the FlexEffect book that for greater than 90% of the exercises, the exercise targets only one single muscle. I could find only three exercises in the entire program that are listed as targeting more than one muscle.
So I think that does support my statement that the FlexEffect program is not based on compound exercises, but is based mostly on isolated muscle movements.
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Yes, I think there is a distinction here in terminology that is clearer for someone who has been into bodybuilding at a serious level, versus people who are interested in the much broader field of resistance training...the two fields have very different aims and hence training styles....
When I use the term "bodybuilding", I don't mean resistance training or lifting weight. I use the term "bodybuilding" in the technical sense to mean the sport of building large amounts of muscle. I think the confusion and hence the difference is that you and Carolyn are using the word much more loosely to mean "resistance training", no?
For the sport of bodybuilding, isolation exercises with large weights and low reps are the foundation and core of building large amounts of muscle. But I don't expect most people know this unless they have been into bodybuilding in a serious way...i.e., if you can name a few past Mr. or Mrs. Olympias, you'll know what I mean |
But then your making yourself an authority on bodybuilding, and I’m still not sure this is correct, as I have at times picked up for my son bodybuilding books, and he’s left them lying around and of course I’ve dipped into reading them and often found several suggestions where they say that the only type of isometric training that can be useful is bicep curls, but even then they add things like the flick of a thumb during the motion and that thus engages other muscles too not just bicep, so I’m still not so sure you can say she is wrong here or its incorrect as its largely due to your interpretation of her wording rather than the actual meaning here. I mean when it boils down to it at the end of the day bodybuilding does encompass both resistance training and lifting of weights if we go really technical about it so its kind of like you say tomatoe and I say tomatoe. |
Having lived and breathed it, and read bodybuilding magazines for years, I do think that counts for a lot. I do think that having that sort of intimate knowledge of bodybuilding is totally on a different plane that seeing a few books on bodybuilding and dipping into them occasionally.
I don't know how to prove this to you , as you seem reluctant to take my word for it. But to be totally candid, I don't see how you could amass the same level of knowledge of bodybuilding without being in the sport and by only reading a little bit here and there. It would be like a scientist talking to someone who read a few popular books on biology...so I think it's far more than the difference between tomatoes and tomatos....
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| For the much more wide-ranging area of weight-training or resistance training, there are a myriad different ways and approaches. Recently, there has been a trend towards more compound exercises in this arena, hence Carolyn's comment, which is not technically correct as she articulated it (because the sport of bodybuilding is different from weight-training), but I know in spirit what she was trying to say instead |
I know that I’ve seen similar statements to what Carolyn has said in bodybuilding literature that I purchased for my son, so I’m still not so sure you can say its not technically correct, and I’m sure that if there are so many wide ranging approaches, then you cannot limit anything to a set way. |
I'm certain that is wrong, or the author you are referring to is not a serious bodybuilder, as you will see the majority of all serious bodybuilding programs are based largely on isolated exercises. And of course, bodybuilders do use lots of compound exercises, too, like squats and even the good ole bench press.
I'm just saying that Carolyn's statement that isolated exercises are going out of fashion in bodybuilding is patently false.
If you could name names--either author names or book titles--then I'm sure we can sort this out, and I can tell you whether the author is a bodybuilder versus just someone who is into weight or resistance training....
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Sorry, not trying to harp on a technical point here, but rather to point out that we still believe isolation exercises with high weight, low reps, and multiple sets **to be best at building muscle**. (Btw, "Strength" is actually a different criterion than "muscle size", and strength athletes do do some different things than bodybuilders.)
So what I am trying to say is in terms of building pure muscle size, isolation resistance-type exercises are still considered the gold standard in the sport of bodybuilding--that isn't going out of style
In terms of just building some muscle in general and going for overall tone, yes, there are a lot of people who favor compound exercises. Totally reasonable and makes sense for many reasons. But there people are not trying to win bodybuilding competitions...that is the difference. |
I’m not sure you can say this with any authority as to no one competiting in bodybuilding competitions isn’t doing compound exercises as you have no way of knowing that for 100% certain. They may be doing a mixture of both isolation and compound, and probably if they are good they would be doing so, but to say they are not doing so I think is misleading as it does make Carolyn out to be wrong, and I’m not so sure she is on this. |
Of course, bodybuilders use compound exercises, but the isolation exercises will always be part of the core foundation of their program, for reasons of building bulk and for achieving symmetry. Isolation exercises will never go out of fashion for those reasons.
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| Sure, I'm sure you've read books extolling the virtues of compound exercises, as I have, too...But the books you are referring to are not books for serious bodybuilders, and that is the distinction here |
Actually that’s incorrect, my son was really interested in bodybuilding at one point and did start training intensely and did get quite big and was impressive (although he hasn’t maintained it) but he is also younger so his body was probably better able for it.
| cm5597 wrote: |
| Sure! When I lift up grocery bags, and carry them home, I'm mostly using my biceps = mostly isolation exercise. If I buy lots of melons and put them in the same bag, sometimes my biceps will be sore the next day, but only my biceps will be sore. |
Using mostly your biceps doesn’t mean your isolating your biceps, it means the biceps might be taking the biggest whack, but it doesn’t mean by an standard that your biceps are the only muscle here, so this is incorrect to say its an isolation exercise isn’t it? Technicalities and all are important as you say, this is a contradiction. |
Yes, that's why I put the qualifier "mostly isolation" in there. You cannot perfectly isolate any muscle, but you can get pretty darn close. Anyways, my point is that when I lift shopping bags, I use almost entirely my bicep muscles....but again, it would depend on technique, as you could lift the bags in ways that target mostly the biceps, mostly the triceps, mostly the shoulders, or several arm muscles at once. I've done all the of the above on purpose at various times to target different muscles
I'm not sure if this conversation is helpful or being productive anymore...if it is, I'm happy to keep responding, but if not, we should probably just agree to disagree Let me know
Cheers |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:54 am |
| cm5597 wrote: |
Yes, I think you are accidentally mistaken here . The FlexEffect 3rd edition specifically says that Cheek Press targets the buccinators on p. 141. It doesn't say any other muscles are involved.
If you turn the page, on page 142, it says that as a *variation* for exercise 17b you can "begin tightening the chin, jaw, upper cheeks, eyes and forward. Use your palms in the same manner as above. This variation increases circulation by using a greater number of muscle fibers making it even more beneficial for skin."
But intrinsically, you can see that the Cheek Press and all three variants target only the buccinators. |
Yes that’s the one I was thinking of, and so by its very nature when you tighten you have to engage the muscles therefore my thinking is that other muscles are involved whether eyes, mouth, forehead etc. So whilst they are designed to impact the buccinators, its untrue to say that they isolate muscles and by your own admission earlier on, you even say this is not possible for this very reason, as it would be completely false.
| cm5597 wrote: |
I'm not sure what this second exercise is that you said targets the entire jawline, as I don't see it in the FlexEffect book.
But I did see in the FlexEffect book that for greater than 90% of the exercises, the exercise targets only one single muscle. I could find only three exercises in the entire program that are listed as targeting more than one muscle.
So I think that does support my statement that the FlexEffect program is not based on compound exercises, but is based mostly on isolated muscle movements. |
Having spoken with Deb and her having told me of the exercise involving accessory muscles, Deb told me that several of the exercises whilst they are labelled as going after a particular target can impact several others. This also falls short of the trainers explanation when they talk about other muscles jumping in. I’ll look it up tonight and get the correct name, but it impacts all the jaw muscles, and it’s the one where your pressing on either side of the chin (think it may be called Triangular or something). Its impacting a group, although it might be labelled to go after one muscle, its involving a group of muscles in the way that Carolyn has described in that article.
| cm5597 wrote: |
Having lived and breathed it, and read bodybuilding magazines for years, I do think that counts for a lot. I do think that having that sort of intimate knowledge of bodybuilding is totally on a different plane that seeing a few books on bodybuilding and dipping into them occasionally.
I don't know how to prove this to you , as you seem reluctant to take my word for it. But to be totally candid, I don't see how you could amass the same level of knowledge of bodybuilding without being in the sport and by only reading a little bit here and there. It would be like a scientist talking to someone who read a few popular books on biology...so I think it's far more than the difference between tomatoes and tomatos.... |
I’ve never made myself an authority on bodybuilding and wouldn’t attempt to do so but I do know what I’ve read in books on bodybuilding seem quite the opposite of what your saying here which your describing as scientific fact whereas its actually just opinion, albeit it might be a widely shared opinion there is absolutely no concrete proof that this is correct. If it were so then there would be many many sources proving so and the books I’ve read wouldn’t have printed what they had, and there wouldn’t be others out there saying the same as Carolyn. One such book I'm thinking of where I read the author's preference for compound movements over isolation is by Bob Paris (who is definitely a body builder). The other book I can think of that my son loved is by Jeff Anderson called Optimum Anabolics. There is o doubt in my mind that Bob Paris isn't only an award winning bodybuilder, but knows his stuff better than you would and has the awards to prove it.
| cm5597 wrote: |
I'm certain that is wrong, or the author you are referring to is not a serious bodybuilder, as you will see the majority of all serious bodybuilding programs are based largely on isolated exercises. And of course, bodybuilders do use lots of compound exercises, too, like squats and even the good ole bench press.
I'm just saying that Carolyn's statement that isolated exercises are going out of fashion in bodybuilding is patently false. |
Again that’s personal opinion and not fact. Its highly possible that there is more than one school of thought there isn’t it who train with these same principles Carolyn’s addressing here and it’s a little ridiculous to me to suggest that there is only one way as we all know already as with skincare there are many routes to any one destination. As you have already said the bodybuilding world is very large – and there wouldn’t be so many books out there on the subject if it was as clear cut as your saying here and everyone would be one.
| cm5597 wrote: |
| Of course, bodybuilders use compound exercises, but the isolation exercises will always be part of the core foundation of their program, for reasons of building bulk and for achieving symmetry. Isolation exercises will never go out of fashion for those reasons. |
But then you couldn’t label the isolation exercises as you have done as being more beneficial in comparison with compound exercises. To be honest I think your picking on Carolyn’s technique and writings here and is done to discredit her technique. No other program out there that I know of is able to provide the same level of customer service that Carolyn is doing (not even FlexEffect).
I think there’s no point in discussing further as this is a thread designed for feedback from users who have her kit, and I think that’s what its best kept to not attempts at trying to discredit Carolyn. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:22 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
To be honest I think your picking on Carolyn’s technique and writings here and is done to discredit her technique. No other program out there that I know of is able to provide the same level of customer service that Carolyn is doing (not even FlexEffect).
I think there’s no point in discussing further as this is a thread designed for feedback from users who have her kit, and I think that’s what its best kept to not attempts at trying to discredit Carolyn. |
Hey TheresaMary
I'm not trying to discredit Carolyn, or her program. I'm very honest and upfront about all my thoughts in regards to each facial expert. I fear that my attempts to correct a wrong statement of Carolyn's are being blown out of proportion.
I responded to this thread because I genuinely was trying to help skincarefreak. My goals are always (1) to try to help, (2) to be honest with my opinions, and (3) to respect others.
I was posting the facial muscle chart for skincarefreak to see and was trying to be helpful. However, I was skeptical that CFF exercises could target up to 10+ exercises of the face in a single exercise. I pointed this out because I would feel bad if I tried to help skincarefreak or anyone else, they bought a program based on my help, and then were disappointed because that program didn't meet expectations, when I could have at least pointed out something to watch out for for the program. I do feel that if someone says something wrong or misleading, that I have a moral obligation to point it out.
I hope this explains my perspective better
Anyhow, I will end my responses to this thread after making a few final points, just because I don't want anyone reading this thread to walk away confused...
* FlexEffect, Ageless, and other program are based mostly on isolation exercises. Like I said earlier, for *most* exercises, only one muscle is listed as the target muscle. A couple exceptions to the rule doesn't change that. And just because a muscle might want to jump in to help out when the isolated muscle becomes fatigued still doesn't change the fact that most of these exercises are designed to target a single muscle.
* All bodybuilders use isolation exercises--think bicep curls, calf raises, side lateral raises, flyes, French press, etc--and virtually all bodybuilders use compound exercises. Neither isolation nor compound exercises are instrinsically better than the other; they each have their unique advantages and disadvantages. Carolyn's statement that isolation exercises are going out of fashion in bodybuilding, if they haven't already, is just very wrong and I wouldn't want anyone to be mislead by such a statement. Let me give you two reasons why isolation exercises will never go out of fashion in bodybuilding: (1) Isolation exercises are the best for building muscle size; (2) You often can't achieve muscle symmetry (one of the aspects that bodybuilders are graded on) without using isolation exercises. For compound exercises, the smallest, weakest muscles fatigue first, so if you want to even out muscle asymmetries, you have to use isolation exercises. If you think bicep curls, calves raises, and other isolation exercises are going out of style in bodybuilding, then that's just so wrong I don't know what to say...I mean, can you even imagine a bodybuilder not doing a bicep curl?!
* I'm not disputing the fact that compound exercises are helpful or good--I do a LOT of compound exercises myself Nor, am I questioning that utility of such exercises for the face. Nor, am I saying that Carolyn's program isn't based on compound exercises...but I would be surprised if one could legitimately actually hit 10 facial muscles in one single facial exercise. Of course, you'll note in my original post, that I was open to correction on that point. That's all
All the best |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:17 pm |
CM5597,
I just wanted to thank you again for posting that chart for me.It has given me some perspective as to her exercises.
TheresaMary and CM5597,
I feel a little responsible for this back and forth because I asked the question...It's clear that you both are veterans when it comes to facial exercise,and it's also clear that you have differing opinions. Since, you are both well versed, I think it might be best to just agree to disagree. I hope that doesn't sound harsh, it just seems like you two don't agree and the back and forth isn't helping. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:39 pm |
Hi skincarefreak
Please, this is not at all your fault--not in the least!
I just reacted to quotation of Carolyn's that TheresaMary posted, and TheresaMary and I just disagree on whether it is right or wrong.
Also, I think it is so hard to judge tone over the internet...It's very easy for two well-meaning people to not know exactly what the other is saying...Been there too many times on either side...
Anyways, the most important thing was to pass along the muscle chart to you...it gave me better insight into understanding Carolyn's approach to facial exercise (I liked many of her points, too), so I figured it would also be helpful for you to decide whether CFF would be a good match for you or not. Btw, does TheresaMary have CFF? Maybe she can give you her opinion of the program....
So I think/hope we're all good |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:05 pm |
Hey TheresaMary,
Just re-read your posts one last time...it seems that you are arguing on the point of whether bodybuilders prefer compound vs. isolation exercises...you will indeed find some varying perspectives on this in the weightlifting world...
Whereas what I am arguing is the more specific point that isolation exercises are a "must" in competitive bodybuilding and hence will never go out of style. Carolyn's statement "Isolation exercises are on the way out in bodybuilding, if they aren't gone already. This is an "old-fashioned" approach to body building that was once thought to be the best way to get results" is what I disagree with strongly and that I call patently false and is not a matter of opinion, as you can walk into any gym and see objectively for yourself that bodybuilders do lots of isolation exercises.
So we might actually be arguing over different points of Carolyn's.
Okay, sorry for this extra post. Just wanted to clarify a few things.
I'll shut up now 
Take care |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:11 pm |
skincarefreak please don't worry, this is a honest discussion. Having purchased Carolyn's program, I can honestly say it does work, but I've never just used one program alone, I've always mixed and matched, as your find the majority of us do here. However I did take perhaps CM's comments as being negative to Carolyn, which perhaps wasn't her intention as she says, but I can't fault Carolyn's commitment to her customers or her set. Its one of the best valued ones out there, and her dedication to people is beyond anything else I've seen. I would even go so far to say that it rivals FlexEffect, in that you get access to the program creator. As your see, CM doesn't own Carolyn's program, so perhaps it wasn't wise for her to post in this thread which was started to see others views of it?
Whilst CM does and should point it out if someone says something wrong or misleading, its unfair to make such statements that its incorrect when its purely personal opinion and not fact period.
Whilst there are programs that incorporate isolation exercises, many programs don't do this such as Facercise, Facial Magic, Eva Fraser's etc - and they do not label themselves as isolation exercises as its impossible to do so with the face. I've personally spoken with Deb of FlexEffect and made substantial notes during the call and she was very upfront about the exercises whilst being labelled as going a certain muscle would actually effecting several. As she is the Creator of the program - I'm going to take her word over CM's on this.
There are so many people out in the world that I'm sure there is no one size fits all with anything - even in bodybuilding (otherwise there wouldn't be so many books on the subject after all).
I think it also needs to be said that whilst CM does have a lot of knowledge, she isn't dealing the issues that many of us older girls are. I mean your in your early 30's right CM - whereas I'm 60 this year and having done facial exercises since my early 50's I've done quite a few programs and I have to say I really like Carolyns, but I also like FlexEffect and Ageless and many others, they are all good in my book!
Theresa |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:28 pm |
Hi CM
Sure I understand your point, but the issue I have is your saying this is fact, whereas in reality its not fact, its open to personal opinion. I've seen others write that working groups of muscles is preferable as it creates more damage to several muscle fibres and as a result will encourage both bigger strength and bulk which is why I believe Carolyn says that statement (and she would have researched it heavily as she does with all the things on her site).
So to say its not on the way out I can understand your arguing is just her personal opinion and your right that if you walk into a gym your see people doing isolation exercises but thats not to say that isolation exercises result in biggest growth/strength or that isolation exercises (which as we have already discussed is not possible with the face) will result in bigger results.
I don't know who Carolyn spoke with or what research she would have done to recognise that, but I'm positive she would have researched it before forming such a conclusion.
As I said previously, if you have so much issue why don't you email Carolyn direct and I'm sure she would answer you why she formulated that conclusion. Carolyn tests all her stuff on a test group of people and collects data on each and every exercise and the results they produce and she is very thorough like that. Something that I don't ever recall other programs doing - but I could be wrong.
Theresa
| cm5597 wrote: |
Hey TheresaMary,
Just re-read your posts one last time...it seems that you are arguing on the point of whether bodybuilders prefer compound vs. isolation exercises...you will indeed find some varying perspectives on this in the weightlifting world...
Whereas what I am arguing is the more specific point that isolation exercises are a "must" in competitive bodybuilding and hence will never go out of style. Carolyn's statement "Isolation exercises are on the way out in bodybuilding, if they aren't gone already. This is an "old-fashioned" approach to body building that was once thought to be the best way to get results" is what I disagree with strongly and that I call patently false and is not a matter of opinion, as you can walk into any gym and see objectively for yourself that bodybuilders do lots of isolation exercises.
So we might actually be arguing over different points of Carolyn's.
Okay, sorry for this extra post. Just wanted to clarify a few things.
I'll shut up now
Take care |
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:02 pm |
Just a general last comment...not ignoring TheresaMary's thread...just now moving our discussion over to PMs out of respect for this thread. Sorry for all the back and forth!
Anyone interested in discussing further is certainly welcome to PM me.
Also, Wikipedia has a good super-short article on the differences between isolation and compound exercises here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_training#Isolation_exercises_versus_compound_exercises, giving more technical definitions and better context surrounding the utility of both types of exercises and which types of weight-lifters tend to have preferences for one type of exercise over the other.
All the best |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:37 pm |
 Actually since I walk my two dogs(puppies), or may say that they walk me, I have developed "biceps"!!!
I own a few facial exercise programs, and I'm now interested in Carolyn's, which I didn't know about!
Thanks for this post, very interested in the background of Carolyn... not so much in the discussions that have been going on.
Hope the post goes back to the original point! |
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Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:42 am |
Atester I've struggled with Facercise and Ultimate Facercise and so got turned on to this at the end of last year (whilst waiting for the long awaited 3rd edition of FlexEffect which was like a year in the making) and the 15 minute timeframe was the attraction for me. I have to say it takes a while to learn the exercises, but I had it done in about 3 views of the dvd and it does contain some great exercises. The thing I like about Carolyn's program is that its so user friendly. She researches everything from facial exercises to hand exercises to even neck and decol. exercises as no women I know wants to have firm beautiful face and wrinkly hands/neck/dec. and I think Carolyns really done her homework. Also she was the first kit that I had which had little flashcards. I'm told FlexEffect had them once but discontinued them and I wisht hey hadn't as they are so useful if your travelling or on the road etc. The CDs are great. The count CDs are perfect and very motivating and encouraging. Plus its great to have personal access to the programs creator. Now there have been arguments in the past that she has kind of ripped off other programs, and there are some similarites with some of the exercises and other programs, but I've not seen anyone else do such a definite package. She even sends you a mirror and now is doing some free samples from her organic skincare range which I love love love.
If I was a newbie to facial exercises I think I would try her system first to get an idea of what they are about. Its great to get tips from her personal and she is always willing to help! |
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Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:11 am |
Hi TheresaMary, I'm not exactly a newbie, and I can really laugh about Carolyn having ripped other programs... -after all in "Ageless..." the exercise 9 is 'Wider eyes' and then it comes and appears on the third edition of "Flexeffect" but with a little 'twist' to it... Can't explain the exercise itself here but the point is that it is the same movement but with the added "pull away" on the later program...Good exercise by the way both ways!
So, by what I've read Carolyn tried out various programs before getting down to plan her own, which I can imagine would be a mixture of various ones plus her own touch, which I think is great!
I'm interested in what exercises for the forehead lines could help in Carolyn's facial fitness, if there is any and if they work. I've seen one of the before/after photos where the lines seemed to minimize a lot, therefore my interest,... nevertheless I've seen the free exercise for crow feet and found very interesting the rubbing during the exercise, it is kind of massage plus exercise.
Any info please is welcome, you've been using this program since the beginning of the year? You've tried others and like it, seen results? |
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Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:25 am |
| Hi, sorry, TheresaMary, I have sent you a PM concerning this post and the "Ageless...." post, I'm confused. Very. Hope to hear from you. |
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Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:06 am |
| ATester wrote: |
Hi TheresaMary, I'm not exactly
nevertheless I've seen the free exercise for crow feet and found very interesting the rubbing during the exercise, it is kind of massage plus exercise.
Any info please is welcome, you've been using this program since the beginning of the year? You've tried others and like it, seen results? |
Yes, I'd also like to know how long you've used it and the results that you are getting from it as well. Thanks. |
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Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:19 am |
Well you know Carolyn’s got quite a few things for the forehead, some massage techniques and exercises. Re Wider Eyes, who cares. At the end of the day these details don’t interest me, but why don’t you post that question on the FlexEffect forum. I’ve had great results with all the programs I’ve done, but never limit myself to one as I like to mix and match things up (and who knows maybe one day I’ll do what Carolyn did and make my own program! LOL).
| ATester wrote: |
Hi TheresaMary, I'm not exactly a newbie, and I can really laugh about Carolyn having ripped other programs... -after all in "Ageless..." the exercise 9 is 'Wider eyes' and then it comes and appears on the third edition of "Flexeffect" but with a little 'twist' to it... Can't explain the exercise itself here but the point is that it is the same movement but with the added "pull away" on the later program...Good exercise by the way both ways!
So, by what I've read Carolyn tried out various programs before getting down to plan her own, which I can imagine would be a mixture of various ones plus her own touch, which I think is great!
I'm interested in what exercises for the forehead lines could help in Carolyn's facial fitness, if there is any and if they work. I've seen one of the before/after photos where the lines seemed to minimize a lot, therefore my interest,... nevertheless I've seen the free exercise for crow feet and found very interesting the rubbing during the exercise, it is kind of massage plus exercise.
Any info please is welcome, you've been using this program since the beginning of the year? You've tried others and like it, seen results? |
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Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:39 pm |
That is interesting. My forehead seems to not respond simply to exercises, so the massage techniques sound interesting. I've checked her web page and I do think she looks fabulous!
I've tried a couple of her "free" exercises and like them very much, also saw a youtube interview which added a neck exercise... and I personally like the concept of rubbing/massaging while exercising the muscle.
 but , obviously I'll end up trying this program! I like the concept very much, and it reminds me by the little I've seen of Stanford Bennett's ideas, which I admire. He seemed to achieve a lot in very few months. |
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Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:09 am |
| I definitely would recommend it - its truly a gentle but powerful program and its not as aggressive as say FlexEffect, but then I sometimes wonder if doing that aggressiveness all the time is effective. Plus I like how you get to hear direct from Carolyn. Yes she does reference Stamford Bennett a couple of times, but I think she really updated a technique he kind of did to really be a lot more powerful and effective. Plus I also think her hands also look very good and this I'm sure is in part because of how she looks after them but also provides exercises for them on her site, whereas for some of the other programs, they never mention hands. |
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Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:23 am |
I tried to see the sample exercise but there is none at this moment. I just wonder how it works,,I don't think it works but I am curious  |
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Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:06 pm |
MMmmm, I ended up ordering Carolyn's program... just after ordering I got three emails with exercises and massages that she recommends, good service! And I tried out what she recommended on these emails and I like the results!
I have received her program, but still haven't gone to pick it up from the post office, shall do tomorrow, looking forward to it. |
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Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:36 pm |
| ATester wrote: |
MMmmm, I ended up ordering Carolyn's program... just after ordering I got three emails with exercises and massages that she recommends, good service! And I tried out what she recommended on these emails and I like the results!
I have received her program, but still haven't gone to pick it up from the post office, shall do tomorrow, looking forward to it. |
Hi ATester,
Which kit did you decide to get? Have you tried the exercises lying down? |
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Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:14 am |
| You start by learning the exercises sitting up, before doing them lying down. There's no rush to do them lying down, but its the eventual goal. Carolyn's CS is outstanding. I have experienced the same as detailed above, and no other program has that cs that I've seen - if only they did! |
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Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:31 am |
| Thank you TheresaMary! |
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Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:28 pm |
I've viewed the programme today... I like it, I own various programmes and this one just seems to put the best of all together! Plus the massage techniques that I've not seen on any other nowadays programme. I've already tried out her massage techniques because of the emails I received as soon as I ordered, I really like them - though I damaged my forehead a bit because of overdoing it with no moisturizing cream!
The question of lying down to do the facial exercises is only down to more or less five of the exercises... and the lying down adds a benefit to the neck here.
I've only taken a look at it once for now, but as I've done facial ex. for quite awhile... it looks good to me. Specially the massage techniques, very Stamford Bennett alike. The "Face Firmer" for me is superb, and the "Dancing Cs" -was one of the emails I received after purchasing, is great! |
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| Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:39 pm |
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