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Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:49 pm  |
| havana8 wrote: |
I'm not sure what it is about facial exercise discussions that seems to bring out such ugliness, but please know that these types of exchanges are not welcome here. Posts have been removed and others moderated.
Going forward, if you would like to discuss Carolyn's Facial Fitness and share your progress or experiences with it (good, bad or indifferent), then this is the thread for it. But please, no inflammatory posts or personal comments as they will not be tolerated.
Please do not post any comments to the moderation itself.
Thank you. |
I appreciate you Havana8. Thank you!
Before we move on, I'd like to thank Sean for the info that Proboards do allow regular members to delete their own posts. That I didn't know, so don't think I ever used this feature (I used the edit feature though, and that does leave a record; so I thought it was the same for delete). I'd like to add, for the record, that according to Proboards FAQ entire threads and posts that have been replied to can only be deleted by administrators or moderators. So my posts from the week of March 6, 2006 as well as the thread I mentioned having started and referred to previously could not have been deleted by me according to these restrictions.
Moving forward, I got a PM from someone asking if I use moisturizer when I do CFF. While I don't use moisturizer per se, I usually do CFF after an oil cleansing of my face. So my face is somewhat slippery as if I'd applied a lotion. I know some people do better without anything on their skin, and others start off using moisturizer then move on to using nothing while working out. I don't think there's a right or wrong way. So even though I've been doing CFF since 2007, I still do it only after an OCM. I'm a creature of habit and so if something isn't broken, I won't fix it. So the only time I will probably move to the bare skin method is if I find my current way not working. I suppose if my face was very oily, I'd not need the slip I get from the OCM.
Just thought I'd mention it in case it might be helpful for someone else. |
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Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:59 am |
| I know a lot has been said about FE photos and its founder Deb Crowley but I also think its important to point out that Carolyn’s photos are a bit dubious. Last one is Dec 2009. and all the ones from 61 upwards all have her tilting her head and are taken at an angle. There’s no real up close photos either, they’re always taken at a distance and I’d really like to see if she’s developed and created a good program to see some up close untangled shots. You know so we can really see her forehead is unlined, and her mouth has no pouches etc. There isn’t really any photos showing that she has been training really or demoing anything. I know the video I had was done some years ago, and I remember there being talk of a new video or something in the making (hell it probably be a dvd nowadays) but its something that people wanting to buy the kit are also thinking too. I mean a major part of her program that made me buy it back in the day was that she was like me and started late in life, so I’d really like to see some up close and personal shots showing the difference in her face. I see the b&a’s on her site, and I noticed the same things re them. It’s the younger ones who show the most changes not the older ones (and the older after photos are usually taken at angles, or heavy make up and hair done etc – the one of the actress is such a classic where she’s in character and meant to be old for her before, and her after has her hair done, nice lighting etc). Just figure this worth throwing out there. BTW has anyone received a newsletter or email this year – that’s another point that also had me sold when I bought her program, and actually I did get newsletters for a number of years but none this year. I know there was discussion of it at one point and it was mentioned she was late getting it out this year, but has this changed? |
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Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:09 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| I know a lot has been said about FE photos and its founder Deb Crowley but I also think its important to point out that Carolyn’s photos are a bit dubious. Last one is Dec 2009. and all the ones from 61 upwards all have her tilting her head and are taken at an angle. There’s no real up close photos either, they’re always taken at a distance and I’d really like to see if she’s developed and created a good program to see some up close untangled shots. You know so we can really see her forehead is unlined, and her mouth has no pouches etc. There isn’t really any photos showing that she has been training really or demoing anything. I know the video I had was done some years ago, and I remember there being talk of a new video or something in the making (hell it probably be a dvd nowadays) but its something that people wanting to buy the kit are also thinking too. I mean a major part of her program that made me buy it back in the day was that she was like me and started late in life, so I’d really like to see some up close and personal shots showing the difference in her face. I see the b&a’s on her site, and I noticed the same things re them. It’s the younger ones who show the most changes not the older ones (and the older after photos are usually taken at angles, or heavy make up and hair done etc – the one of the actress is such a classic where she’s in character and meant to be old for her before, and her after has her hair done, nice lighting etc). Just figure this worth throwing out there. BTW has anyone received a newsletter or email this year – that’s another point that also had me sold when I bought her program, and actually I did get newsletters for a number of years but none this year. I know there was discussion of it at one point and it was mentioned she was late getting it out this year, but has this changed? |
I haven't received newsletters but I almost don't miss them because CFF website is so dynamic. There's a blog that Carolyn posts in. Then every time I think I've read all the articles on the site I go through the FAQ and find lots more info I don't remember reading. Considering Carolyn runs the show herself w/o any trainers to hold the fort for her and answer her clients, I consider what she is doing remarkable. Besides keeping up with her clients' correspondence--something you'll hear repeated all over about her service--she also finds time to keep her site up-to-date. (Did you know that while the updates of photos on her site might take months to be added--coz that depends on clients' willingness to share--her reviews pages keep growing and people keeps sending updates? Don't forget that her business now also includes a skincare line that again she has to oversee and she even finds time to offer classes! As busy as she has to be, researching (hence the reason some of her articles are able to break down the science of what goes on with face exercises), responding all by herself to all the correspondence she gets, blogging, filling orders...one wonders how she ever finds the time to do anything else like breathe. I remember calling her once and leaving a VM message and when she called me back she had been gardening! I can't even find time to tend a flower pot. 
LOL @ you saying there are no photos showing that she's been training or demoing anything.  ... And your point? If she took a photo in a training pose, that would tell you what? There are no photos showing I have been training either...so I don't follow what your point is. Also the point you make about her younger photos showing the changes more than the old only go to prove how well her program works. When she was younger her face had sag, so of course her exercises changed to improve all that. She lost her jowls, her double-chin, wrinkling around her eyes diminished. Once all these improvements are made, how much more change can you expect? She's in her 60's for crying out loud. Also I don't see the heavy makeup you are talking about. And IMO heavy makeup is very aging. Oprah had a show where women who wear heavy makeup had it toned down and how much younger they looked!
I see you differentiate between video and DVD. I never owned her video (as in VHS) nor did I know there was one. Just a DVD with the 28 exercises. I remember reading a review where someone was mad that she didn't complete the count for the exercises. LOL I found it funny coz all I did was see how the exercise is done. Pause the video while I watched myself do it in a mirror to make sure I had proper form. I didn't need her to do a full count for me to know how to do the exercises. I was just grateful she demonstrated all of them.
As for close-up photos, maybe she'll take some but her [url=]sample exercise video on Youtube[/url] shows what she looked like at 59. Her bangs do hide her forehead so we can't tell what it looks like but you can get a pretty good close up look of her face by viewing the clip in full screen mode. I love the shape of her face. Her lower cheeks aren't sunken in but she has this beautiful fullness and contouring. Another clip that you could enlarge is the one of her on the Today Show which was taken in her 60's.
On the point of makeup here's a beautiful woman in her 60's. No amount of makeup could hide the lines she has:
And just to make it a fair comparison, I've minimized her photo so it's not so much of a close-up:
(Which reminds me, I don't know if you know the story of how this thinking is what prompted me to learn face exercises rather than learn how to apply makeup. You see, I had gone to WH Smith to buy a how-to book on makeup, but while in the health and beauty aisle, Eva's book caught my attention. The idea of being able to stop the aging process--that's what I understood exercise were to do from the casual browsing of her book--appealed to me because I thought looking toned would when I was older would be so much better than wearing makeup on a wrinkled face. Needless to say, I'm still clueless on makeup. )
As for tilting her head downward, I don't know if you know that tilting the head down has a way of emphasizing a double chin and making the neck very lined. Also I think shadows are cast more when a photo is taken from above or when you look down so you where there's overhang is emphasized, and if you have loose skin you just make it easier for gravity to show that more. Anyway, in the Today Show video was made when she was in her 60's and she's not tilting her head. In both tilted and non-tilted, her neck is smooth and her chin and jawline very defined. Another thing I noticed is how good the elasticity in her skin seems to be. She makes an expression and the minute she completes it, her face returns to a state of relaxation. She smiles, N/L lines show--as they should when people smile unless they are Botox--and then when she stops, the cheeks are smooth again. Also her face is so alive and expressive. I hope to be like her when I grow up.
I suppose it's easy to nitpick photos when one is skeptical, and that's OK. But if one looks at the general trend, it's clear CFF has really improved Carolyn's face. The tone is better than when she was in her 40's. She had more fat in her face, but the apples of her cheeks were hanging and her laugh lines when she was 53 were double parenthesis. I love how her face transformed from what seemed to be heading for a frumpy look to what is now a polished, lifted and happy face. |
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Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:24 am |
Last time i looked at her site, she was offering a service whereby people could learn to become a trainer of the CFF, but it just may have been that she hasn’t had time to do that just yet. Its funny because on another thread you mentioned that you didn’t believe re people’s unwillingness to share photos, yet here you say that it takes months for photos to be added because it depends on clients willingness to share photos. Well isn’t that what you said you didn’t believe on the other thread?
What i mean re photos and her training is that I think there are a lot of people with programs out there that encourage you to do exercises that they themselves don’t do. Whilst there may be no photos that show you training, from what I’m aware you’re not selling your own program? So I’m not sure I understand your point. Now also with her before and afters, to me it looks (very much in a similar way to yours) that her before photos had her with a little weight and that her after photos have her slimmed down. I do hope that she sees this and takes some close ups though.
Now with the tilting the head, its not a downward tilt as such, its that the camera is taken at a downward angle. Its like in the Golden Girls (a show I still to this day love) when Blanche tilts her head down and looks in the mirror – she hates her appearance. Well if I did that or anyone else – we’d all be the same. However if I had a camera that was posing at a downward angle, then even if my head was upright, the double chin etc would be very much hidden. |
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Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:21 pm |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Last time i looked at her site, she was offering a service whereby people could learn to become a trainer of the CFF, but it just may have been that she hasn’t had time to do that just yet. Its funny because on another thread you mentioned that you didn’t believe re people’s unwillingness to share photos, yet here you say that it takes months for photos to be added because it depends on clients willingness to share photos. Well isn’t that what you said you didn’t believe on the other thread?
What i mean re photos and her training is that I think there are a lot of people with programs out there that encourage you to do exercises that they themselves don’t do. Whilst there may be no photos that show you training, from what I’m aware you’re not selling your own program? So I’m not sure I understand your point. Now also with her before and afters, to me it looks (very much in a similar way to yours) that her before photos had her with a little weight and that her after photos have her slimmed down. I do hope that she sees this and takes some close ups though.
Now with the tilting the head, its not a downward tilt as such, its that the camera is taken at a downward angle. Its like in the Golden Girls (a show I still to this day love) when Blanche tilts her head down and looks in the mirror – she hates her appearance. Well if I did that or anyone else – we’d all be the same. However if I had a camera that was posing at a downward angle, then even if my head was upright, the double chin etc would be very much hidden. |
I still don't understand why you need to see a photo of a trainer doing an exercise. LOL What does that prove? You have the videos of Carolyn doing all the exercises, so what more do you need? There's a YT vid of her doing the exercise too and on her site are sample photos of images of her showing some of her exercises and tips.
I don't know TheresaMary if you just like to argue or what point it is you're trying to make. In that other discussion, it was made clear clients were uncomfortable sharing their photos but the reason given for that didn't make sense because these same clients had shared bad photos previously, so not sharing good photos didn't make sense--if indeed their faces had improved. The photos they had shared previously were of bad results and they were unhappy and were seeking help. And then we're told their results got better but now they didn't want to share those photos. That does not add up, especially when I've followed one such person and know she went to another program where she told of how the program had ruined her face hence her move. And this was after she tried to stay on and posted more photos that were not any better and got lied to about there being improvement.
But I gave the excuse given the benefit of the doubt and you'd have seen that I did if you were not just looking for something to nitpick about but were actually paying attention. On giving the excuse the benefit of the doubt, I turned my attention then to the trainers and asked where their photos were. And the part about it taking time to put photos up on a website, I was talking about the photos that will be displayed on the site permanently. I was saying I know that can take time but posting them in a discussion like this should be something one can do pronto, so I didn't understand the delay in showing photos, or the excuse that the one photo taken is missing--as if one can't just take a photo now, upload and post. I didn't understand why there needs to be some preparation for that. And so Cathy shared hers, which is all I was asking for. So again, what was your point of bringing this up again or are you just out to keep finding something to argue about?
Secondly taking a photo from above will cause any overhang to cast shadows. N/L lines will be move visible and so will puffy eyes. Taking a photo from underneath would hide all that. And if your brain can't process that, I'ma draw you a picture really slowly so try not to blink:
No lines when camera is below:
Lines obvious when camera is straight ahead due to shadow casting:
So imagine how much more shadows would show if cam was slightly above.
And the point you're making about a photo taken from above hiding a double chin doesn't hold any water in Carolyn's case because you have seen her video where the camera is directly in front of her, and no double chin there. So again, what exactly is your point? 
And you can keep on wishing I were fat so you can continue believing that FE didn't ruin my face (or that of the many people who've posted accounts online) by making me look bulky and matrony when I was clearly very youthful looking right before I started the program. (WTH does it matter to you anyway? I just can't wrap my head around your determination to prove FE didn't mess my face up or to discredit CFF. This seems to be the theme of all your posts thus far--and I'm not the only one who's noticed this. What is it to YOU?) The size of my face has been the same in all my photos for over 15 years, except for that one brief time I did FE when I looked awful. And now that I don't do FE I look like I did those 15 years before FE. It doesn't take half a rat's brain to figure out that if nothing in your life changes but ONE thing and then all hell breaks loose, then you stop that ONE thing and switch to something else and all things go back to normal, then that ONE thing was to blame for hell breaking loose. I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you first said that I was fat many weeks ago because I understood you didn't know, but after I've told you I was slimmer than I am now and even posted an image of me back then.
People who are happy don't have to knock others down to feel tall. It doesn't take much to figure out who falls into which group around here. |
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Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:22 pm |
| Interesting that your face grew fat from FE. Good news for us oldies who see our facial fat melt away to leave us with a hollow gaunt look. Could FE bring back volume in the cheeks? |
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Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:48 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Interesting that your face grew fat from FE. Good news for us oldies who see our facial fat melt away to leave us with a hollow gaunt look. Could FE bring back volume in the cheeks? |
I don't know. I think that's the objective but CM who has been doing it for a long time says her cheeks need volume. Maybe the new program will do that for her. Or maybe she's always had little mass and it's added some for her.
What I honestly believe and this has been part of my point in a lot of my posts, is people who have mass on their faces (firmness and fullness) should not be doing resistance training. After 15 years of Eva, my face had the tone it had when I was 20, if not better. I didn't need to "facebuild". I wasn't lacking mass that facebuilding hopes to achieve.
When TheresaCats had a bad experience with CFF, I had a feeling it's also because she has a babyface. Her face isn't gaunt but has mass and so I felt isometrics would be best for her and I emailed her my thoughts just because I suspected that's what had happened with her. On FE forum, when my face became bulky, I started to share my sentiments that young people who still had mass and volume in their faces didn't need to do resistance training. I suggested Eva's program because it begins you with non-resistance training. I felt that it alone would be sufficient and really believed that resistance training was better for those who needed to build mass in their faces.
Anyway, that was my take and I still feel strongly about that. TheresaCats was put on an isometric program by Carolyn after she discussed this with her and she now is having better results.
So yeah, while I don't know if FE does make gaunt faces that are more mature fuller, I do know that the build I got from it was not attractive and it was as if the muscles I already had just grew and not in a good way, and I assumed it was because my face was already full enough and didn't need such aggressive training for facebuilding. So whether faces that don't have much muscle can turn that little muscle into large muscle that takes up space using FE is something long-term Flexers who started with gaunt faces can perhaps help answer. |
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Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:19 pm |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Interesting that your face grew fat from FE. Good news for us oldies who see our facial fat melt away to leave us with a hollow gaunt look. Could FE bring back volume in the cheeks? |
I don't know. I think that's the objective but CM who has been doing it for a long time says her cheeks need volume. Maybe the new program will do that for her. Or maybe she's always had little mass and it's added some for her. |
My face started out as gaunt, like really bad for my age, but now it's much fuller and just a little on the thin side. It took a couple years to fix most of it. I have a little concavity in my lower cheeks, but I've filled in about 80% of it, and my upper cheeks are fuller, too. I've tried 6 facial exercise programs now to increase facial fullness, and FE was the best for me overall. While I do use a handful of exercises from other programs, there are no cheek exercises from other programs that I do: I've found that for the 6 cheek muscles, that the FE advanced versions are the best for me. |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:58 am |
It’s not so much that I need to see a photo of a trainer doing an exercise, just that it would be nice to see it that’s all. It’s not necessary at all. The video I have was filmed some years ago, and so I’m just curious as to if Carolyn does them all, does she do all the bonus exercises etc. It’s just curiosity pure and simple and there’s no law against it. I’m not trying to find fault – what a strange thing to say.
I also think it’s not so much me but you Nonie that likes to create arguments. You really had a thing in another thread about there being no photos of clients of another system, yet when the same question is posted here you go in uproar. It’s not one rule for one and another rule for another here, and this is a public forum so people are entitled to ask questions after all and these are relevant questions to people who are going to spend their well-earned money. In today’s day and age very few of us have cash to waste (can’t talk for everyone but that’s certainly true for me and others I know).
Now the point about photos and overhang is a little bit taken out of context here. The photos I’m referring to are Carolyn’s that are taken at an angle here:
http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/pictures-of-carolyn
If you look at the end photos at 62 and 63 you can see these are both taken from the side with a slit tilt towards the camera and at an angle. This is very different from the examples and explanations you posted. There really is no need for such nasty comments either Nonie. Seriously this is supposed to be a discussion, not an opportunity for bullying!
Again it’s not that I think you were fat or are fat at all, but I’m simply pointing out that in the photos where you say FE ruined your face, your face looks a little heavier in appearance to me than your after photos. That’s the only point I was making. You don’t look bulky, you simply look like you have some excess weight in comparison to your after photo – no biggie. Hell I’ve been there hundreds of times myself which is why I mentioned it. I always call it how I see it – and it wasn’t a statement of fact it was asking you whether that was the case or not. I’ve even had times myself when I’ve looked facially heavy even though my weight was the same myself so I know it does happen.
I agree with you that people who are happy don’t have to knock others down to feel tall, but likewise if there are good questions being thought then don’t people have a right to ask them particularly if as you have said before they can avoid mistakes with their own faces! |
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Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:33 pm |
One of the things I love about CFF is how after every workout my face feels as if I just had a wonderful facial massage. Usually I do CFF while lying down ready for bed and it's so easy to loll into sleep right after it coz of how good I feel and oh so relaxed.
Another thing I'm noticing is besides helping me keep a natural-looking build to my face and have good tone, CFF, I believe has made my lower cheeks are a little fuller and so the shape of my face is looking more like it did when I was 20. In other words, instead of my face appearing to taper sharply toward a pointy chin--something that happens as we age: our faces lose mass and look more gaunt/narrow--mine seems to be getting more ovalish/round and beautifully so.
In another discussion, Lotusesther was asking about adding fullness to the face in older people. That's what made me take a closer look at my own face and while I haven't really been gaunt all my life--thanks to Eva and my genes, I guess--I honestly think I see a slight, yet very beautiful increase in my lower cheeks. Since Lotusesther was referring to people who were older, I went through the Before/After photos on Carolyn's site and I think Robert's face is a perfect example of someone who is older who was able increase fullness in his face with face exercise. In his latest photos, he looks like he could be the son of the guy he was before he did CFF. In addition to having better tone, his face had filled up a bit and looks rounder but not fat. While in his before photos I would have thought he was my Dad's peer, now he looks like he could be just ten years older than me: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/robert |
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Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:26 am |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
Another thing I'm noticing is besides helping me keep a natural-looking build to my face and have good tone, CFF, I believe has made my lower cheeks are a little fuller and so the shape of my face is looking more like it did when I was 20. In other words, instead of my face appearing to taper sharply toward a pointy chin--something that happens as we age: our faces lose mass and look more gaunt/narrow--mine seems to be getting more ovalish/round and beautifully so.
In another discussion, Lotusesther was asking about adding fullness to the face in older people. That's what made me take a closer look at my own face and while I haven't really been gaunt all my life--thanks to Eva and my genes, I guess--I honestly think I see a slight, yet very beautiful increase in my lower cheeks. Since Lotusesther was referring to people who were older, I went through the Before/After photos on Carolyn's site and I think Robert's face is a perfect example of someone who is older who was able increase fullness in his face with face exercise. In his latest photos, he looks like he could be the son of the guy he was before he did CFF. In addition to having better tone, his face had filled up a bit and looks rounder but not fat. While in his before photos I would have thought he was my Dad's peer, now he looks like he could be just ten years older than me: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/robert |
Hi Nonie, it gives me hope when I saw your testimonial and pictures as well as the others at CFF website.
My face became thin and gaunt ,especially at the middle to lower cheek areas, after doing resistance facial programs (FE + Ageless) for almost one year back in 2009. Even after I stopped doing any exercises for more than one year, my face never returns to the round/oval shape I used to have before starting exercising. Apart from looking gaunt, the contour of the face becomes a bit squarish which I absolutely hate!!!
I wrote to Carolyn and sent her my pictures and she's pretty confident that CFF could help me to restore the fullness and roundness of my face. I just ordered the program and hopefully it could help me to reverse the damage caused by the other programs! And Carolyn definitely provides excellent customer service as she responds to my numerous emails patiently and promptly!
Keep my fingers crossed that CFF will work for me and I will report back if it does! |
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Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:07 pm |
| moonstone wrote: |
Hi Nonie, it gives me hope when I saw your testimonial and pictures as well as the others at CFF website.
My face became thin and gaunt ,especially at the middle to lower cheek areas, after doing resistance facial programs (FE + Ageless) for almost one year back in 2009. Even after I stopped doing any exercises for more than one year, my face never returns to the round/oval shape I used to have before starting exercising. Apart from looking gaunt, the contour of the face becomes a bit squarish which I absolutely hate!!!
I wrote to Carolyn and sent her my pictures and she's pretty confident that CFF could help me to restore the fullness and roundness of my face. I just ordered the program and hopefully it could help me to reverse the damage caused by the other programs! And Carolyn definitely provides excellent customer service as she responds to my numerous emails patiently and promptly!
Keep my fingers crossed that CFF will work for me and I will report back if it does! |
Hi moonstone,
I wish you the best in this new venture. The most important advice I can give you is to keep in touch with Carolyn, sending her regular photographic updates. Not only can she use them to help you see the positive changes that may be so subtle that you may not notice them yourself (which is very inspiring), but she can also monitor your progress and guide you as needed so you may get your face back to the way you like it.
I look forward to hearing updates down the road.  |
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Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:59 pm |
| moonstone wrote: |
Hi Nonie, it gives me hope when I saw your testimonial and pictures as well as the others at CFF website.
My face became thin and gaunt ,especially at the middle to lower cheek areas, after doing resistance facial programs (FE + Ageless) for almost one year back in 2009. Even after I stopped doing any exercises for more than one year, my face never returns to the round/oval shape I used to have before starting exercising. Apart from looking gaunt, the contour of the face becomes a bit squarish which I absolutely hate!!!
I wrote to Carolyn and sent her my pictures and she's pretty confident that CFF could help me to restore the fullness and roundness of my face. I just ordered the program and hopefully it could help me to reverse the damage caused by the other programs! And Carolyn definitely provides excellent customer service as she responds to my numerous emails patiently and promptly!
Keep my fingers crossed that CFF will work for me and I will report back if it does! |
Hi moonstone,
I have the same problem as you! I've been exercising for less than half a year and my face became very thin and depleted of fat in the lower part of my face. A year has passed and I still haven't recovered.
Has Carolyn advised you to do her standard program or some non-resistance exercises? |
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:52 am |
Hi Nonie,
Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement and advice!
I've been doing a few exercises that Carolyn told me to perform before receiving the CFF program for the last couple of days! And I think there is a slight improvement in terms of the fullness and firmness of the face. Hope it's not my imagination....
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
Hi moonstone,
I wish you the best in this new venture. The most important advice I can give you is to keep in touch with Carolyn, sending her regular photographic updates. Not only can she use them to help you see the positive changes that may be so subtle that you may not notice them yourself (which is very inspiring), but she can also monitor your progress and guide you as needed so you may get your face back to the way you like it.
I look forward to hearing updates down the road. |
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Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:13 am |
| agatha wrote: |
Hi moonstone,
I have the same problem as you! I've been exercising for less than half a year and my face became very thin and depleted of fat in the lower part of my face. A year has passed and I still haven't recovered.
Has Carolyn advised you to do her standard program or some non-resistance exercises? |
Hi agatha,
Seems like quite a number of us have the same issues with gauntness after doing facial exercises!!! And which program did you use?
Actually I haven't received the CFF program yet. But I had a video session with Carolyn a few days ago. She carefully evaluated my problems and patiently instructed me to do a few gentle exercises and massage that are suitable for my face.
Btw, Carolyn looked absolutely lovely and sweet via online, even better than her pictures that was shown at her website! Her face has a beautiful oval/round shape with a wrinkle-free neck!!! I hope I will look as good as she when I reach my 60's.
Well, I will certainly let you know if I see improvements later on. And hope you will find a fix for your problem soon! |
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Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:01 am |
| moonstone wrote: |
Hi agatha,
Seems like quite a number of us have the same issues with gauntness after doing facial exercises!!! And which program did you use?
Actually I haven't received the CFF program yet. But I had a video session with Carolyn a few days ago. She carefully evaluated my problems and patiently instructed me to do a few gentle exercises and massage that are suitable for my face.
Btw, Carolyn looked absolutely lovely and sweet via online, even better than her pictures that was shown at her website! Her face has a beautiful oval/round shape with a wrinkle-free neck!!! I hope I will look as good as she when I reach my 60's.
Well, I will certainly let you know if I see improvements later on. And hope you will find a fix for your problem soon! |
My problem was not only the gauntness, but my mouth area developed in a strange manner (it seemed like an overbuild but I think it was due to the fat loss in the lower face region, so my mouth corners are now sticking out). I was doing FE, but later when one female trainer on their forum explained to me differences in the facial expressions we make when contracting different muscles of the face, I have realised that I was doing some exercises in the wrong way.
I'm too scared to do any resistance exercises just yet, but I would be interested in some gentle ones...
Good luck with your new regime! |
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Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:01 pm |
| agatha wrote: |
My problem was not only the gauntness, but my mouth area developed in a strange manner (it seemed like an overbuild but I think it was due to the fat loss in the lower face region, so my mouth corners are now sticking out). I was doing FE, but later when one female trainer on their forum explained to me differences in the facial expressions we make when contracting different muscles of the face, I have realised that I was doing some exercises in the wrong way.
I'm too scared to do any resistance exercises just yet, but I would be interested in some gentle ones...
Good luck with your new regime! |
I totally agree with you that those aggressive resistance programs are not for everyone!
I remembered while I was doing FE, my cheeks also became bulky and muscular in a weird way after performing the program only for a few months. Then I started Ageless after reading some raves at the forum. In the end, my face became so gaunt and thin that my friends kept asking me if I have some kind of illness.... Before I started facial exercising in year 2009, most people would guess I was at least 5-8 years younger than my actual age. Now people tell me I just look about or even older than my age! 
Although it's a huge disappointment for me to spend time and effort on face exercises which eventually lead to unfavorable results, I still have faith that I will eventually find a way to fix it and get my youthful look back! And Nonie who selflessly and bravely shared her photos here is a living proof which gives me much confident that uglies can be reversed! |
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Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:32 pm |
Hi, Moonstone.
Like Nonie, I am a very satisfied user of CFF. You can read about my experience further back in this thread, when I'd been doing the exercises for eight months. I am now at the third anniversary and am still seeing improvements, even though I've reached the age of 66.
No-one can predict how another person will respond to facial exercises, so I can only speak for myself when I say that I have never experienced gauntness, bulkiness or awkward stages with CFF. It's been a very smooth ride for me, and Carolyn has always been on hand whenever I've had any questions - and there were a lot at the beginning!
Keep in touch with Carolyn all the way through and you'll give yourself the best possible chance of achieving your goals. I wish you a happy outcome. Keep us updated. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:36 am |
I have not posted in ages, and feel "odd" just jumping into a conversation--
But, I have a theory, perhaps it has been mentioned by others.
I noticed that with exercise for the body, I do not like bulkiness. I prefer a long lean look, a dancer's body. Not a gymnast, not a runner, not a biker's body and not a weight lifter's. but a dancer's. Not a weight lifter--(Maybe bowflex, its leaner--)
Since I like the results of dance exercises--ballet barre work etc, it behooves me to do those kinds of exercises. I won't get it if I do the other kind.
I have decided to approach face exercising the same way. I think I like the results of Carolyn's for me. It seems like the equivalent to a dancer's body-- Very elegant. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:05 am |
| SansSouci572 wrote: |
I have not posted in ages, and feel "odd" just jumping into a conversation--
But, I have a theory, perhaps it has been mentioned by others.
I noticed that with exercise for the body, I do not like bulkiness. I prefer a long lean look, a dancer's body. Not a gymnast, not a runner, not a biker's body and not a weight lifter's. but a dancer's. Not a weight lifter--(Maybe bowflex, its leaner--)
Since I like the results of dance exercises--ballet barre work etc, it behooves me to do those kinds of exercises. I won't get it if I do the other kind.
I have decided to approach face exercising the same way. I think I like the results of Carolyn's for me. It seems like the equivalent to a dancer's body-- Very elegant. |
SansSouci572, what a great analogy! And like you, I prefer, for myself, the elegant, long and lean bodies of dancers to the bulky, hard-looking bodies of bodybuilders. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:33 pm |
I see I repeated myself, in the body building analogy--whoops! Perhaps because it was on my mind! Some facial exercises look exactly like body builder's bodies. So if you like that look, that is the facial exercises you should be doing. It might look odd to have two different muscle ideologies going on, lol!
I am wondering if certain types of faces must be extra cautious with certain types of exercises, just like the rest of the body. Some people naturally have very stocky looking bodies to begin with for example--or, it seems that way.
I know Tracy Anderson says that is somewhat of a myth, that she appeared to be born with that type of a body and she did not want that kind, she wanted a dancer's body so she did dancer's exercises, and designed her body to look super tiny and yet very strong-- and claims anyone can.
So it is probably the same thing with the face.
It would seem like you would have to bulk up quite a bit to take up all this skin slack. I feel like I would need my muscles to protrude 1" away from my face to smooth this jaw line up. But I can see from the before and after photos on Carolyn's site that this is not true. I see others with even more slack than I have, smoothing it out. So it can be done. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:35 pm |
I have been wondering to myself--if like the body, you have to stretch to have a certain look.
You know how if you use free weights, you have this certain look, like there is this muscle that pops up--and it certainly looks better than no muscle.
But-with a bowflex, there is instead a muscle but this smooth line, it does not look like a ball stuck under your skin. To me, its like stretching and doing weights at the same time.
With dancing, they always have you stretch after every single thing that would create any bulk.
I had it in my mind, that if I tried FE, I was going to stop just short of getting too bulked up, as I prefer the lines to be more smooth.
However, perhaps it is better to not go that route at all, if you do not want that, to go straight for the method that is more smooth to begin with.
Does Carolyn incorporate some kind of stretching in her exercises? I was wondering if that is the key. If you have to stretch, just like with dance. Stretch in ways you did not even think possible... |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:54 pm |
| SansSouci572 wrote: |
I have been wondering to myself--if like the body, you have to stretch to have a certain look.
You know how if you use free weights, you have this certain look, like there is this muscle that pops up--and it certainly looks better than no muscle.
But-with a bowflex, there is instead a muscle but this smooth line, it does not look like a ball stuck under your skin. To me, its like stretching and doing weights at the same time.
With dancing, they always have you stretch after every single thing that would create any bulk.
I had it in my mind, that if I tried FE, I was going to stop just short of getting too bulked up, as I prefer the lines to be more smooth.
However, perhaps it is better to not go that route at all, if you do not want that, to go straight for the method that is more smooth to begin with.
Does Carolyn incorporate some kind of stretching in her exercises? I was wondering if that is the key. If you have to stretch, just like with dance. Stretch in ways you did not even think possible... |
SansSouci572 I don't get your question nor do I think you can keep comparing the face with the body like that.
Dancers stretch to limber up, improve flexibility, loosen joints before they dance and then they do it afterward to cool down. I'm not sure how you can apply that to the face.
If you've been sitting down for long, you stretch and feel good because otherwise your joints feel stiff. Or when you wake up from a deep sleep, you stretch coz it makes you feel good and releases tension, but I don't see how that sort of stretching can be related to the face.
If you look at all face program, you will find similar exercises in all of them because there are only so many ways to work the face. I believe what makes one give different results from another is the selection of exercises within the program, their combination, the techniques used and the added twists per program. There is a whole thread on stretching that is found in face exercises and it shows there are many with it, including programs which, to borrow your analogy, would not give the "dancers' body".
While your analogy earlier was cute, I think it would be wrong to keep comparing the face and what it needs with the body and what it needs: The anatomy and physiology are different in each case. Plus because body muscles go from bone to bone, stretching has a whole different meaning there from what it would mean to the face where muscles attach to other muscles and to skin...not to mention the complex orientation of face muscles that are also so tiny. If I interlock my fingers behind my back and straighten my arms and raise them, I feel a stretch across my chest and can tell my pecs are being stretched. Even if there was a likelihood that stretching the face before or after a workout would give the same benefits as stretching the body, exactly how would you know how to stretch/isolate muscles in a complex feature as the face where muscles overlap, criss-cross...etc and what stiffness would you be trying to relieve exactly?
Is anyone else getting a headache from this post where I'm trying to compare oranges and apples, like I am?
Anyway, here's the thread on stretching. You'll see that stretching in face exercises is not like stretching the body in dancing. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:38 pm |
The reason I thought stretching kept a person from bulking up was because it is what is repeated on the callanetics dvd's and also on Tracy Anderson's dvd's.
I do not know how this would work on a face. I do know that certain types of exercises produces certain looks, and there are certain looks I want to avoid.
I shall keep my theories to myself from now on. I was simply trying to figure out some things.
I was not trying to be cute. I am 54 years old. |
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Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:37 pm |
| SansSouci572 wrote: |
The reason I thought stretching kept a person from bulking up was because it is what is repeated on the callanetics dvd's and also on Tracy Anderson's dvd's.
I do not know how this would work on a face. I do know that certain types of exercises produces certain looks, and there are certain looks I want to avoid.
I shall keep my theories to myself from now on. I was simply trying to figure out some things.
I was not trying to be cute. I am 54 years old. |
Wow SansSouci572 you make me regret answering you. I don't know why you sound upset. I was merely trying to help you see that stretching the body and stretching the face are two different things and that you can't compare the body's stretching and how that gives lean muscles with stretching of the face due to difference in the way muscles are arranged and how they relate to other parts of the human anatomy in their respective areas.
For example, there is a lot of stretching in FE, probably more than in CFF, but FE focuses on facebuilding and its aim is to increase fullness (ie bulk out the face). But that doesn't mean there's no stretching in other programs that don't bulk one out. In other words, I was just stating that while your first analogy w/r/t to some programs being more like dance and others more like bodybuilding seemed accurate, there aren't many such similarities between the body and the face and the fact that exercise that involve stretching the body lead to leanness while exercises that involve stretching the face can lead to bulking is one reason why I was saying your logic w/r/t stretching didn't apply. If I wasn't trying to help you understand and clear it for you, I wouldn't have gone so far as to find a discussion on stretching in face exercises to further help you see my point. I'm not sure why you took offense.
As for you not trying to be cute, I didn't accuse of being cute, but rather I liked your first analogy and the analogy itself was cute. I don't know why you read so much negativity into my post. I really was trying to answer your question and help you understand the difference. I'm sorry you got the wrong end of the stick. Oy vey! |
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