Carolyn's Facial Fitness
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free skin care · Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:19 am

Nonie aka AD wrote:

TheresaMary wrote:

I do like the brush exercise, but to me it looks like its based on the massage video that Tonya Z did some time ago. Someone pointed the similarities out to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHQV4AedIF0

What do others think? It may just be me

The only similarities I see is the part of fingers being used and the fact that moisturizer is applied first.

Differences:

JenJ, sister sweets, I too love The Brush. I always feel as if I walk with my head held high after I do it. Very Happy

I didn't think it was that similar either. Only similarity is the shape of the hand, which is similar to the hand shape used in No Lipo Lipo. I think it's just a somewhat common hand shape.

free skin care · Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:12 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

TheresaMary wrote:

I do like the brush exercise, but to me it looks like its based on the massage video that Tonya Z did some time ago. Someone pointed the similarities out to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHQV4AedIF0

What do others think? It may just be me

The only similarities I see is the part of fingers being used and the fact that moisturizer is applied first.

Differences:

JenJ, sister sweets, I too love The Brush. I always feel as if I walk with my head held high after I do it. Very Happy

I didn't think it was that similar either. Only similarity is the shape of the hand, which is similar to the hand shape used in No Lipo Lipo. I think it's just a somewhat common hand shape.

I hadn't even thought about that, but you're so right! It is indeed a common hand shape in massage!!! It can be used in Foot Massage:

...and this clip it is being used on the back.

(BTW watching that massage vid makes me wish I were the one getting a massage. Come to think of it, it's been ages since I got pampered like this. Must do something about that soon!

free skin care · Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:22 am

The woman’s name is Tonya, and actually the similarities that I see are both that she uses her knuckles, but also that Tonya does several different types of movement on the face, including an up and down one, which is mimicked in the jawline/chin area. Its not to say I don’t think it’s a good exercise, I most certainly do but I would really like to know when program creators create new things if they could give us background influences or even just references. I’ve no quarms if Carolyn used Tonya’s video and adapted it to her own needs, but why not be upfront about it. Likewise in CFF, I see she now has exercises which she has you do when you apply her products, but these are exactly the same as Carole Maggio’s. Presumably that’s where she got these from, but why not just say so.

Whilst Tonya does it on the face, and Carolyn only does it on the neck, I don’t see how you can see this is a “difference”. In the brush exercise, I don’t see anywhere where Carolyn has you flexing the muscles? Maybe I missed that part – could you elaborate on that for me Nonie. Tonya’s got a lot of movements, not just circular, look at what she does to the nl’s and cheeks, they’re not just circular. Also look at the end of the jawline as she does up and down movements.

Whilst it may be similar to massage movements, if that’s the inspiration behind it, why not say so? I just don’t get the secrecy bit.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

The only similarities I see is the part of fingers being used and the fact that moisturizer is applied first.

Differences:

JenJ, sister sweets, I too love The Brush. I always feel as if I walk with my head held high after I do it. Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:22 am

I thought all of those doing CFF or who just started might enjoy the review at the link below. I particularly loved the photo essay at the bottom where you can see how her face has changed in 7 years so that it shows fewer lines now than when she was younger! Also she confirms what I have shared before about Carolyn: that while there is a basic program that is the core of CFF, if there's something you're not happy about, Carolyn can usually customize the workout with bonus exercises to help you correct the problem if you send her photos and an explanation of what it is you'd like to change.

Enjoy: http://www.look-younger-naturally.com/carolyns-facial-fitness.html

free skin care · Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:16 pm

I have been doing CFF for 18 months and I love it. I use it along with frownies as a maintenance routine. I like the fact that there is not a lot of aggressive massaging involved. I don't do a lot of massage to my face. I think too much massage breaks up the fat over time good for other parts of the body but not the look I want for my face. I also noticed my skin is not as dry as it was.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:55 am

I looked at the link given,
http://www.look-younger-naturally.com/carolyns-facial-fitness.html , and the before and after pics at the top didn't convince me at all.
But because Nonie had mentioned a photo essay at the bottom of the page, I scrolled down. Well! now that's different!
I could see the improvement around the eyes where the eyebags disappear completely and her eyes open much wider.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:49 am

Marie-Andrée wrote:

I looked at the link given,
http://www.look-younger-naturally.com/carolyns-facial-fitness.html , and the before and after pics at the top didn't convince me at all.
But because Nonie had mentioned a photo essay at the bottom of the page, I scrolled down. Well! now that's different!
I could see the improvement around the eyes where the eyebags disappear completely and her eyes open much wider.

Hi Marie-Andrée:

I see what you mean. And yes, oftentimes the person sharing his/her pics is more aware of how big the changes are than those looking. Perhaps it's because they also feel them? Or maybe it's because they know their own faces so well that they can notice nuances that strangers may not? I know when my face wasn't right, those who were meeting me for the first time then would not have been able to fully comprehend the reason for my disappointment. A comparison pics may have helped shed some light but I doubt strangers can fully grasp the differences.

What I noticed when I first looked at the two photos...

...is the first one shows a woman who looks tired (sad?) and though still youthful, I don't get the "full-of-life" first impression that I get looking at the woman in the second photo. The first photo also shows a woman looks a few pounds heavier than the one in the second photo (and not just 1-2 lbs difference either, which apparently is all the difference there is between the two). Also the cheeks of the woman in the first photo do look soft (not really flabby but I can tell she has no firmness/tone). The cheeks of the second lady look firm and lifted and I imagine if I were to pinch them, I'd grab a chunk of flesh/muscle...not just thin skin; and this lift seems to have smoothed out the slight shadow of N/L lines that appeared to have been developing. Those are the things that jumped out at me.

Now on close inspection, her forehead appeared to be slightly lifted in the second photo than in the first. Let me explain: If you look at the area where 11's develop between (between the eyebrows) in the first photo, there's a depression that makes me think that if this were not a still photo, she's two seconds away from knitting her brows in a frown of annoyance. While in the second photo, the 11's areas doesn't appear slightly concave as in the first but looks as if there's a firm muscle under the skin and it gives her a look of alertness. as in the first pic. Another thing I noticed on scrutinizing the pics is, while her upper eyelids appear to be the same in both photos, if you look at the eye to our left, you can see that in the first photo the crease extends almost all the way to the inner corner of her eye. But in the second photo, the crease of the upper eyelid to our left is shorter and ends sooner and farther from the nose on the inner corner side. Someone may argue that her eyes look bigger because she's opening them wider. But if this had been the case, then the crease would've been just the same as before if not longer, since when you open your eyes wide, the eyelid tucks under the skin. In her case, it's as if the skin above her eyes has lifted (particularly in her inner corner) so that there's almost no crease there. And if she was merely opening her eyes wide, then that would not explain the missing part of crease she used to have. Also, if you trace the shape of her eye underneath, there is a lift on the outer edges of her eyes so that a slight droop that was there is no more and the crease of her upper eyelid on the outer corners is lifted out smoothing out her crows' feet area.

This last observation is not easy to see, but I think I am able to notice it because I've been there. If you look at the corner of her mouth to the left (I keep using the left because I think that side shows clearer, or maybe it's the side the needed more work since we're asymmetrical creatures, most of us anyway).... So if you look at the corner of her mouth to our left in the first photo, it's slightly turned downward...but follow it diagonally downward and notice the puffiness around her jowl area. She doesn't have jowls and I'm not suggesting she does, but I can see a slight bulging in the first photo that looks like you could grab and use to explain to someone how jowls form. In the second photo that area is lifted and smoothed out so that not only isn't her mouth downward turned but there's nothing to grab anymore. This probably goes back to the change from softness to firmness. The same change I am aware from my own experience and so probably more able to see it.

Anyway, that was my observation of the first images before I saw the photo essay. I think changes that last a long time are gradual and may be felt before they are seen...so that the people with the changes may end up sharing photos that show changes only they are aware of. But as I tell people starting face exercises: don't despair just coz it seems to take forever to see the changes. If you look at the photo taken in 2006 vs the last one in the photo essay where the smile is about the same, the disappearance in the parentheses on the side of her mouth that were in the 2006 pics show just how far she's come in the 2.5 years she's been doing CFF.

And so it is with most of us--and hopefully this will help everyone stick to whatever fight you're in: we may not see or feel a difference in a month or a year, but if we stick with it, in due time, the change will manifest itself. What usually happens is an old friend meets us after years of not seeing us and lets us know we're different. Or we happen to find an old photo and we are surprised to see how different we looked then.

I know it's easier to want to watch the kettle boil and to fret coz it's taking so long, but don't forget that if you're doing CFF, Carolyn can help you see changes that don't stand out to you. She did it for me and helped inspire me to stick with the program. I simply sent her photos of my progress every few months, the same way I sent her my starting photos and she was able to highlight differences my untrained eye couldn't see. She was also able to assess if I needed any customization and thus help me achieve my goal by doing just what was needed to achieve it.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:37 pm

If I would need someone to point out to me that 'after' is better than 'before' because it obviously isn't, something is wrong.
The gap between the two pictures is only two years, in a young woman. She has lost a lot of facial fat (where you'd want to preserve that for as long as you can, just try to keep it in the right place!) and frankly her eyes look very frightened because the white below her iris is showing. Her lips have thinned considerably. If facial exercise is supposed to slow the hands of time and this is the result in only 2 years in a young woman who can't be having too much hormonal problems yet, it's not a good ad for this programme imo. And she has developed jowls instead of lift. The forehead bulge may keep the 11's at bay - but who wants a bulge? I certainly don't. I am sorry to say this woman looked much better before she started exercising.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:01 pm

The ridge in the forehead area does not look good. That area was nice and flat in the before picture. That is the only problem that I see. I really don't see any jowls. I actually think she looks better with less facial fat. Her face looks more sculpted.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

If I would need someone to point out to me that 'after' is better than 'before' because it obviously isn't, something is wrong.
The gap between the two pictures is only two years, in a young woman. She has lost a lot of facial fat (where you'd want to preserve that for as long as you can, just try to keep it in the right place!) and frankly her eyes look very frightened because the white below her iris is showing. Her lips have thinned considerably. If facial exercise is supposed to slow the hands of time and this is the result in only 2 years in a young woman who can't be having too much hormonal problems yet, it's not a good ad for this programme imo. And she has developed jowls instead of lift. The forehead bulge may keep the 11's at bay - but who wants a bulge? I certainly don't. I am sorry to say this woman looked much better before she started exercising.

Lotusesther not sure why the need for the eye roll. You may not appreciate this breakdown but there are those who do, and clearly from your observation, you too could use some enlightenment in reading faces if you weren't so disinterested. I am one person who appreciates and is open to information and love to do unto others as I'd have them do unto me--which includes breaking down stuff that may be obvious but then again may not be.

For one, I do know that even after years of doing face exercisers, I could not discern the changes that were taking place in me over the first 8 months when CFF fixed my face and it helped to have Carolyn point them out to me and then I saw them and that's what kept me going. So perhaps for you, pointing out the subtle changes is not necessary, but I do know for me, I appreciated the info and from the email I got after my post, I know I'm not alone in this and so it is for that person and others like her that I wrote my post. Smile

And actually this is precisely one of the things I love about Carolyn's website. Every progress photo is described so we can see the changes that our untrained eyes may otherwise miss.

Also, I don't see the jowls you are talking about. Jowls are not just a bulge under the jaw but are actually due to the whole side of the face hanging down.

The side to our right in Jaana's photos doesn't look much different but it also appears to be to away from the light, so the side to our left shows up the changes better coz both before/after are well-lit.

What I see is better contouring on the second photo as if all the flesh is lifted and her face has better definition. But let's actually cut out most of the photos and just look at the area in question:

Yes, my caption spells it out for anyone who can't see the obvious.

Here's a before/after comparison following a facelift that improved jowls. Ironically the side to our left shows the change better too:
[img]http://headshots.iavvo.com/[/img]
Beside the beautiful contouring the facelift made to the pic on the right as if skin is lifted and now firmly attached to the bones (the same change I see in Jaana's face--lady in the photo essay), notice also how the downward turn of the corner of the mouth to our left is also smoothed out, just like Jaana's (in other words, it's a very obvious LIFT on that whole side):

I also would not knock down a program just because it fixed an issue I consider minor and I myself happen to know people with bigger issues. If hormonal issues are really a problem that is so hard to fix and we're wondering if the program can do that, I don't need to point out that Carolyn is a good ad for this! Unlike many others, she has had a "youth jump" and looks so much younger in her 60's than she did in her 50's when she started the program (http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/carolyn). So if anyone is wondering if this program can fix the face of someone whose gone through menopause, then look at Carolyn's photos and then look at Carolyn's latest video and you can see that the suggestion that this program only fixes problems in young people is nothing more that hogwash: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/the-brush

Also about her lips having thinned, that I don't see either. We all know there are lipsticks that plump lips up, heck even making out can make one's lips plumper. Razz

Anyway all joking aside, her lips do not look any different to me. Here is her photo essay and the two photos I said were a good comparison (last one and the 2006 one) show lips of exactly the same size:

Still, I think it's unfair to knock down someone's progress just coz we or someone we know has worse issues than the one sharing her progress. So Jaana happens to have been lucky to know of this solution early enough and may thus prevent problems of later years. I say good for her and kudos galore!

packratmack wrote:

The ridge in the forehead area does not look good. That area was nice and flat in the before picture. That is the only problem that I see. I really don't see any jowls. I actually think she looks better with less facial fat. Her face looks more sculpted.

packratmack, the "ridge" you see (or bulge as Lotusesther calls it) isn't really there. I think it's the light reflection from her no-longer-hollow 11's area that gives the illusion that she has a ridge. If you look at the last photos in her photo essay where her head's turned away slightly, there's no "Neanderthal effect" there. Instead, a very nice and smooth forehead. In the photo I have posted below where light is bouncing off the side of her forehead, you'd think she has a bump there too but she doesn't.

So it's just the light playing tricks on the eyes.

And yes, you packratmack totally see what I see in the beautifully sculpted and more defined "after" face. THIS is the same difference I saw in my face with CFF. But the thing is, I don't think it's fat loss in her face but rather a tightening of muscles that for 34 years had never been exercised and then in the last 2 years finally got exercised and developed tone and tightened up to give the firmer face. Same thing happened to me, I didn't put on weight when I got this flabby face

It was more like I messed up the beautiful tone I had in my face just four months before as shown in these two photos:

...and then thanks to CFF, I got it back as shown in the photo below (like Jaana, I got the nice lift and firmness that makes the face look less frumpy):

Anyway, as I've shared before, (also from my own experience) no one would be gushing about improvements in their faces and posting photos if there really had not been any or if things had gotten worse. Those who have nothing good to show and who aren't happy will not put themselves out there. So my guess is these photos do not do Jaana justice. I mean, she's so happy about the improvements in her face that she has created a whole website simply to share her joy. There has to be something to this.

What's more if CFF really was not as good as we say, the positive feedback that abounds on the website, most of it with followups/updates would not exist (http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/facial-exercises-reviews/). Last I looked I was surprised to find that there were not just 10 pages of feedback but 21. Today there are 36 pages of letters from happy clients of CFF. Need I say more?

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:57 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

If I would need someone to point out to me that 'after' is better than 'before' because it obviously isn't, something is wrong.
The gap between the two pictures is only two years, in a young woman. She has lost a lot of facial fat (where you'd want to preserve that for as long as you can, just try to keep it in the right place!) and frankly her eyes look very frightened because the white below her iris is showing. Her lips have thinned considerably. If facial exercise is supposed to slow the hands of time and this is the result in only 2 years in a young woman who can't be having too much hormonal problems yet, it's not a good ad for this programme imo. And she has developed jowls instead of lift. The forehead bulge may keep the 11's at bay - but who wants a bulge? I certainly don't. I am sorry to say this woman looked much better before she started exercising.

FWIW, I don't think it's all bad. I see a mix of things: positive results in that some areas look better and more lifted, like the outer corner of the lips and the eyes look perkier. But I think the fat loss on balance makes her look a tad older in the after photo. In the cheek area in particular, the fat loss improves the lower cheek (resulting in a more sculpted lower face) but deflates the upper cheek, thus lowering the apple or high point of her cheekbones, esp on the left side of her face (our right; try covering up only the left side of the photo to see what I mean)... this makes it a mixed bag imo for the cheeks. Just my 2 cents.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:09 pm

P.S. I think if the right side of her face looked as good as the left, she would definitely look better overall in the after photo. In fact, I think her left side overall looks better in the after photo, but the right side looks better in the before photo. I'm wondering if this is why we see different things....perhaps it depends on whether our eyes are drawn to the left or right side of her face?? It seems like she has not addressed or corrected the natural asymmetries in her face using the exercises. If someone could just communicate to her to focus on the right side of her face to help it catch up to the left side and have her focus on building her upper cheeks and undereye area, then I think she'd be good to go Smile

Just my personal opinion.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:25 pm

cm5597 wrote:

FWIW, I don't think it's all bad. I see a mix of things: positive results in that some areas look better and more lifted, like the outer corner of the lips and the eyes look perkier. But I think the fat loss on balance makes her look a tad older in the after photo. In the cheek area in particular, the fat loss improves the lower cheek (resulting in a more sculpted lower face) but deflates the upper cheek, thus lowering the apple or high point of her cheekbones, esp on the left side of her face (our right; try covering up only the left side of the photo to see what I mean)... this makes it a mixed bag imo for the cheeks. Just my 2 cents.

CM5597 I don't see what you see. One way to see the apple of the cheeks is to smile, and a slight turn of the face helps us see the apple even better. To this end, I've taken the photo from 2007 and I've flanked it both sides with photos taken this year after CFF. The apple of her cheeks has not dropped at all; rather it is right where it has always been. If you trace the distance from eye to where the bulge protrudes in the slight profile, it's at the exact same spot:

Also, I do not see the deflation in the upper cheeks that you speak of. In fact, looking at her photo essay, her face shape seems to have remained the same; just looks "tighter" in the last photo. Below is a photo taken this year and again, her upper cheeks show no evidence of deflation whatsoever:

And that's another wonderful thing about CFF: you don't morph into a new you. You just became a better you. If Jaana's upper cheeks were any bigger, she'd not look like herself at all.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:43 pm

cm5597 wrote:

P.S. I think if the right side of her face looked as good as the left, she would definitely look better overall in the after photo. In fact, I think her left side overall looks better in the after photo, but the right side looks better in the before photo. I'm wondering if this is why we see different things....perhaps it depends on whether our eyes are drawn to the left or right side of her face?? It seems like she has not addressed or corrected the natural asymmetries in her face using the exercises. If someone could just communicate to her to focus on the right side of her face to help it catch up to the left side and have her focus on building her upper cheeks and undereye area, then I think she'd be good to go Smile

Just my personal opinion.

CM5597 very few humans have perfect symmetry and I think we end up with problems when we assume we are better than the Creator and try to make our faces look perfectly symmetrical when naturally that's not how we are.

Another thing to consider, and I'm sure you know this, the face muscles on either side of our faces are not identically toned or lax. That is why some people can snarl on one side more easily than the other. Or they can raise one eyebrow higher than they can raise the other. Or find they can wink with one side better than the other. Often times we chew more on one side than the other. So it's very unlikely that muscles on both sides of the face will be starting their journey at the same level. So the more toned ones may respond faster than the others.

IMO to try to double up on the "weaker" side to try match up the other side is the biggest mistake you could make. And is part of the reason so many people end up with more problems than they started with. And everyone who's ever tried to do this can tell you that they were not happier but rather found they had new problems from doing this.

I hope Jaana doesn't take your suggestion to focus more on one side than the other. I mean, what exactly should she be working? Who knows which muscle precisely needs work. So far, there have been umpteen posts discussing N/L lines and how to eradicate them because everyone's assumption that the muscles around the N/L lines are what one needs to be worked to improve them has proven to be ineffective. I have seen people being told to focus on that area but that's never availed any good results, which is why you have more complaints that songs of rejoicing. If anything they end up w/ new problems when they take up the advice to do exercises for that area. Why? Because it's not just those muscles that are to blame for what we see on the outside.

When I started CFF, I had been fed that logic too. That you needed to work hard in the areas that are lacking. So initially I tried to do more in the areas I was least happy with. I "focused" more on them. But this gave me no joy. I got more and more frustrated and felt like I was getting nowhere. It wasn't until I trusted the wisdom of Carolyn in developing her program and how very well-balanced it is, and so did it as SHE directed me, without worrying about what area looked worse than what area, that everything fell into line.

I think we are being extra critical of Jaana because if we look at the photos on either ends in the set below, both sides of her face look good to me:

In fact, if you were to bump into her in the streets, I doubt you'd be distracted by the side of her face you say needs work. We are just so used to seeing FAKE faces (photoshopped or cosmetically altered), or naturally symmetrical people like Denzel Washington, that we forget that asymmetry can give character and make us uniquely beautiful. My sister has only one dimple (on one cheek) and God forbid she should ever want to get surgery to get another dimple on the other side so she's balanced.

Bottom line is: there will be a time when all muscles will achieve their optimum tone. When they do, they will just stay toned because you can't improve on perfection. Eventually the ones that were lagging behind will achieve that tone too and be at that level of optimum tone that those others got to and could go no further. In other words, you will get tone similar to what you had at youth or close to it on all muscles. So I say do not focus on one side more than the other. But rather work all muscles equally and let tone come to them all eventually when it will.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:57 pm

This is the reason why I think there are so few photos of people progress with products/gadgets/facial exercises. I think you get dissected within one inch of your life. I am not trying to say people aren't entitled to their opinions, they are. It's just who wants to openly expose themselves to such scrutiny. I know if I ever wanted to post my facial progress and read some of the things that are said about other photos I wouldn't be happy to say the least. This post isn't directed at anyone or even really about this thread. Just a general observation about why people (me at least) would never want to post a picture.

free skin care · Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:32 pm

Jaana is naturally beautiful, but I do think that she has more of an asymmetry than the average person....whether or not it was from her face building up in an imbalanced way or was there to start.

Taking this photo of Jaana here: http://www.look-younger-naturally.com/images/before-and-after-facial-exercise.jpg, you can see the asymmetry more clearly if you make a face from either only the left or right side of her face:

In the image on the right (made out of the right side of her face only), she looks awesome and 10 years younger than the image on the left (made out of the left side of her face only).

Nonie, this is why I disagree with you every time that you say that CFF automatically gives a person a balanced look. It's just not true; you can get an imbalanced look, facial asymmetries, overbuild, etc. on any program. It's not a flaw of CFF, it's just that balance in symmetry (no asymmetry) and build (no under- or overbuild) is not guaranteed. Rather is something that usually requires tweaking and modifications of whatever program you are on to compensate for your strengths and weaknesses and to reach your particular aesthetic goals. And just so you don't think I'm picking on CFF, the same is true of any program, whether FlexEffect, Facercise, etc.

Regarding pointing out things to improve in people's photos--whether asymmetries, overbuild, underbuild, etc.--yes, I do that on occasion on both EDS and the FlexEffect forums, but I try to do so only when I think there is a significant enough issue and when I think that making the person aware of the issue so that they can address it will help them be happier in the long-term.

And the good news is that facial exercises can help improve these things!

Cheers Smile

Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:38 am

Hi All. When I came here today I was like... OMG, those are my pics they are all talking about!

Forehead bulge... LOL! I have moisturizer in the after pic and it is shining a bit. I have not developed a cro-magnon forehead!

My face is pretty asymmetric, yes, but CFF has actually made that better, not worse.

I don't think CFF can give you something that you've never had. I mean, my face has never been symmetric and my lips have always been thin, kinda "turned inwards". So I'd be happy to agree with Nonie, that CFF automatically gives one a balanced look - in the range where possible.

I think both sides of my face are proceeding at pretty much the same speed, even though I have had some problems getting the new customization exercises feel correctly in the left side. But the "hanging jowl" in the pic is just from the lighting. If I touch the skin over my jawbone where the jowls would be, the left side is slightly more soft, but the contours are similar - meaning that in real life the difference is not visible.

I'm really happy with my results, even though I was a bit vary when posting the pics. I think the changes are more visible live.

And I do have hormonal problems... or had. I had adrenal fatigue and insulin resistance after that.

Even if I had side differences, I'd never exercise more on the weak side. I don't believe in facial muscle toning - the studies go against that. I explain this in my web page in article "5 reasons why facial exercises work".

There are more details and links to the studies in article "Relax The Face Muscles".

I'm a newbie here so I cannot give you the direct links. You'll have to go to my look-younger-naturally page and you'll find them on the left.

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:26 am

Jaana

I read your site with interest, but I’m a little confused with some of what your saying here. Not toning and building muscles but stretching and relaxing? What about exercises where you stretch and then contract – doesn’t that do both?

Also when you say there is misunderstanding with most experts to facial exercises, you are right that they are happy to say our muscles get a full workout each time you speak or eat, but that’s just moving the face and not working the muscles against resistance.

You use Carolyn’s program which incorporates resistance because it builds and tones muscles. That’s what resistance training is all about to me.

Now another point you have me slightly confused over is thatyou say all muscles have a tendancy to tense (no probs there) and get shorter as you age? Well that’s not true in my case or anyone elses who has lost weight suddenly or has jowls. The reason you get the sagging etc is because the muscles have become longer not shorter.

Now there is some stretching in all the programs out there – even CFF for sure…. For example when you slide along, the skin gets a stretch there for sure. Sure its minimal but its still a stretch though isn’t it.

Also I started in my 50’s and am now in my early 60’s and can tell you for sure, that stretching and pulling on my muscles certainly did have a beneficial effect to me. I’m not aware of anything that says facial exercises cause damage to ligaments (are you talking false ligaments here or the other kind?)?

Theresa

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:43 am

TheresaMary, thanks for reading and commenting my articles!

I think I do need to edit them to make people better understand what I mean. This is not the easiest thing to explain.

I also thought that the muscles lengthen by age, but the studies show the opposite, for both body and face. For face, they show the problem being worst in mid-face muscles - the ones we thought were lengthening.

As we know firsthand that facial exercises work, that means the current theory on WHY they work is wrong and we must find another one.

Current studies say that stretched ligaments and changes in skin and fat tissue cause the sagging with aging, not overly long muscles. And I can only assume, spasms in muscles will form wrinkles in the skin around it.

So, taking in these studies, my theory is that the exercises work by taking the pressure away from ligaments, thus letting them heal. Plus the other things I listed in my articles.

But I no longer believe they work by building or shortening muscles.

In my current opinion, contracting facial muscles does not make you look younger. Contractions are only useful when they are used as an opposing force to a stretch.

I'm quite thrilled myself about this new viewpoint.

It nicely explains why even short and funny programs like Jack LaLanne's give results. And it explains why stretching and pulling programs have potential to give results faster than milder programs. And, it also explains how sometimes less is more.

You cannot really damage ligaments (and I'm talking about the ligaments some facial muscles attach to) with facial exercise - ripping them would need a tremendous force! But you can further stretch them, especially if the program is not well designed (on this issue, putting fingers in your mouth makes the cheek exercises safer).

In 9 cases out of 10, getting the pressure off the ligaments is more important than the possible stretch, but...
As the results depend on how effectively your metabolism can rebuild damage, your hormonal situations, inflammation etc. directly affect the results you get.

So, I'd say that healthy people, with no hormonal problems, overweight/inflammation/allergies/atopic tendencies, and thus ability heal well, should just pick the program with most stretching and pulling to get results fastest. And the persons who have those issues, its maybe safer to pick a program that has milder stretch/pull combined with massage, like I think CFF is.

After learning all this, I'm planning to try Ageless If You Dare, to see if I could keep my results with less exercise time. I do like the build I get with CFF, so I'm planning of something like 1xCFF + 1xAgeless per week.

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:02 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Jaana is naturally beautiful, but I do think that she has more of an asymmetry than the average person....whether or not it was from her face building up in an imbalanced way or was there to start.

Taking this photo of Jaana here: http://www.look-younger-naturally.com/images/before-and-after-facial-exercise.jpg, you can see the asymmetry more clearly if you make a face from either only the left or right side of her face:

In the image on the right (made out of the right side of her face only), she looks awesome and 10 years younger than the image on the left (made out of the left side of her face only).

OK, let's look at the two faces you posted. None of them look anything like Jaana. Instead I feel like I'm looking at cartoon faces. Laughing

So I say Jaana should NOT try to get either side of her face to look the same. When Father created her He looked at what He had done and thought it was good (It's in Genesis). He was right. What I see in what you created trying to mirror each side of the face are two people that are not as beautiful as she is the way she is. That is my observation anyway.

Quote:

Nonie, this is why I disagree with you every time that you say that CFF automatically gives a person a balanced look. It's just not true; you can get an imbalanced look, facial asymmetries, overbuild, etc. on any program. It's not a flaw of CFF, it's just that balance in symmetry (no asymmetry) and build (no under- or overbuild) is not guaranteed. Rather is something that usually requires tweaking and modifications of whatever program you are on to compensate for your strengths and weaknesses and to reach your particular aesthetic goals. And just so you don't think I'm picking on CFF, the same is true of any program, whether FlexEffect, Facercise, etc.

Well, when I say CFF gives a balanced look, I mean balanced the way that person was always meant to be--Jaana put it better when she said that CFF will not give you something you never had. But will just get you closer to where you used to be. So the face shape doesn't change, nor do features relative to each other. That's not something I can say w/r/t a program like the one you do. Like when I see Vittoria's avatar, her face looks big and her nose has lost its form and looks wide and soft, which isn't how she looked before. She seemed to have lost some of the definition she had. The vertical lines that seem to be characteristic of the program (that look like aged dimples) don't show in her last photo so it does seem like she's ironed out the lines. But she also looks different as her face doesn't seem to have the same balance she had:

Or when I look at the Deb's photo from 6-7 years ago, the one that made me want to do her program, I see a beautiful face I'd want to have. But I do not like the face she has now. The smooth contours she had from jaw to chin are gone and her heart-shaped face has turned into a square, more masculine looking one:

Another example was Lala. She looked awesome after a year of FE. Her face was still the same and her tone was great. But in 5 months she started to get that HARD look that seems to be typical:

She did get fillers which she later shared she didn't care for and so would not do them again. But her face softened up a bit when she got them; I feel they helped bring back the youthful look she used to have:

Lala is still very beautiful and her latest photo looks really good. I know she went raw a few years ago, which I'm sure plays a part, but I do have to say she's somehow managed to avoid changing very much from how she looked so she still does look pretty balanced IMO:

Another example of this change that I call an "unbalanced" look was in Peaprincess. She too started to look hard over time--a fact she stated herself. It seemed as if instead of all the muscles of her face appearing to improve in tone uniformly so that she looked better, there'd been some odd toning in some parts and not others. Some imbalance in the structure of her face so that she looked odd. She also started to have shadows that gave the impression of droop she never had before:

So that's what I mean. I prefer a program that keeps everything looking the same size it was before, only better toned. I find such results to look more natural when the features don't change relative to each other.

In comparison, and why I like CFF, look at the following examples:

Marilyn's face with CFF: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/marilyn

Or Andrea's face with CFF: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/andrea

Or Dakota's face with CFF: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/dakota

As for keeping soft, feminine features, Karen's face is a good example of how well CFF works. I think she looked hard and tired (mean?) before CFF. She now has a warm, soft, beautiful look to her: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/karen

Quote:

Regarding pointing out things to improve in people's photos--whether asymmetries, overbuild, underbuild, etc.--yes, I do that on occasion on both EDS and the FlexEffect forums, but I try to do so only when I think there is a significant enough issue and when I think that making the person aware of the issue so that they can address it will help them be happier in the long-term.

And the good news is that facial exercises can help improve these things!

Cheers Smile

No problem in that at all. In fact, it's nice of you to make suggestions. But as someone who's been in the face exercise realm and who's never seen any positive results from working one part more than another in an effort to change things or "balance things out", I just had to chime in to share my two cents of how wrong I think it is to do that.

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:21 pm

Nonie,

I'm not going to engage with you on a FlexEffect vs CFF debate because I know that's going to get us nowhere.

And second, as I said earlier, this isn't about CFF vs FlexEffect. Instead, what it's about is that NO facial exercise program automatically produces balanced results or even good results 100% of the time. Routines need to be tailored to the individual over the long-term. Hence my advice to Jaana therefore would still be to focus a bit (not a lot) more on her weaker side. This is in part what I mean that there are no guarantees.

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:28 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Well, when I say CFF gives a balanced look, I mean balanced the way that person was always meant to be--Jaana put it better when she said that CFF will not give you something you never had. But will just get you closer to where you used to be. So the face shape doesn't change, nor do features relative to each other. That's not something I can say w/r/t a program like the one you do. Like when I see Vittoria's avatar, her face looks big and her nose has lost its form and looks wide and soft, which isn't how she looked before. She seemed to have lost some of the definition she had. The vertical lines that seem to be characteristic of the program (that look like aged dimples) don't show in her last photo so it does seem like she's ironed out the lines. But she also looks different as her face doesn't seem to have the same balance she had:

Oh, and btw, Vittoria said publically that she's gained a lot of weight recently, thus explaining her rounder face. Btw, how old is she in the first 2 photos? I've never seen those photos of her before and am wondering where you got them from.

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:21 pm

Ah what a familiar feeling, things are still the same.
Nonie, please stop bashing FE. And if Jaana can be allowed to age that much in 2 years time doing CFF, please accept that Vittoria ages too. She looks vibrant and energetic. You just can't compare the results of a 30-something to the results of a 50-something - age after 50 is a different monster. Maintaining facial volume is key and I notice that Vittoria, even though her nose, as noses do, has continued growing, has a lovely full and toned face.

Some faces may be better off with CFF, others with FE or with Ageless. The kind of competition you drag this subject into does not do anyone any service. We all try to find what is best for our individual faces, and I personally distrust anyone who pretends to offer the one size fits all-solution.
That and the fact that in some threads you post a picture to illustrate overbuild, and in another post the same picture to illustrate flab and lack of tone. That does not add up, does it?

free skin care · Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:40 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Oh, and btw, Vittoria said publically that she's gained a lot of weight recently, thus explaining her rounder face.

Oh OK.

Quote:

Btw, how old is she in the first 2 photos? I've never seen those photos of her before and am wondering where you got them from.

I don't know how old she is. As a musician who's not exactly hiding her talent, she's practically a celeb. Her photos are all over the Web.

Lotusesther wrote:

Ah what a familiar feeling, things are still the same.
Nonie, please stop bashing FE. And if Jaana can be allowed to age that much in 2 years time doing CFF, please accept that Vittoria ages too. She looks vibrant and energetic. You just can't compare the results of a 30-something to the results of a 50-something - age after 50 is a different monster. Maintaining facial volume is key and I notice that Vittoria, even though her nose, as noses do, has continued growing, has a lovely full and toned face.

Some faces may be better off with CFF, others with FE or with Ageless. The kind of competition you drag this subject into does not do anyone any service. We all try to find what is best for our individual faces, and I personally distrust anyone who pretends to offer the one size fits all-solution.
That and the fact that in some threads you post a picture to illustrate overbuild, and in another post the same picture to illustrate flab and lack of tone. That does not add up, does it?

Lotusesther not bashing a program at all. Just clarifying what I mean by unbalance. CM5597 misunderstood what I mean when I say CFF creates beautiful balance--something I do not say of FE (and a fact I state having had EXPERIENCE in it so can speak from first hand)--and unless you know another program I have done that gave me "unbalance" that I can use to show the difference of which I speak, then I shall exercise my right of freedom of speech and clarify myself with examples I am most familiar with.

If I was really on a mission to bash FE, I'd be poking my nose in FE threads to do so and would posting reviews on every website I could possibly find to let them know what I think of it. Instead, I usually go into discussions about face exercises in general and if you look through all my posts, you will find that *I* am probably the only person devoted to ONE or TWO programs who has have given praise to all programs at one time or another and even posted before/after photos from FE to show how well face exercises in general work. I have never seen anyone not doing CFF do thatf or CFF...nor have I seen anyone who had a bad experience with something take a moment to give it praise where it is due.

However, when a topic warrants me to show what I don't like about face exercises (coz I'd be lying if I said they are ALL flawless)--and if it will help me clarify what I mean--then I'm sorry if it rubs you the wrong way, but I shall do as I see fit, to make my point clear. And usually that means having to use an example of MY bad experience and I should not be chastised for doing that. In this very discussion, TheresaCats shared her bad experience with CFF and no one rolled eyes at her posts or made her feel like she was a bad person because she happens to express her opinion of CFF.

And yes, the same photo I post of myself when I was least happy with my face does indeed show all the things you list--a perfect example of what can go wrong with face exercises, if you will. I went from having a firm, defined face with perfect tone and contouring as seen in these images:

...to having a flabby, soft face with loss of tone and saggy hanging cheeks that gave me a look of heaviness:

Anyone who's not in denial can see that this^^ was not an improvement of how my face was. Not only did I go from looking so much younger than my years (even though I do say so myself) to looking frumpy and so much older in a matter of months, but my face also felt loose and heavy (swollen) with the overhang of my cheeks. My eyes' puffiness felt as if I'd been crying for days. I was most unhappy!

And yes CFF helped me go from having that ugly build that I call "unbalance" that consisted of loss of tone (= increased flabbiness), loss definition, sag that never used to be, and bulkiness (including puffy eyes), and lines I never had (eg N/L lines)...to having back the tone I used to have, the definition I had lost, the contouring I had lost, and ironed out the lines I had developed from overhang. A perfect lift that was reminiscent of the good ol' days:

I was 3 years older in this last photo than I was in the photo with the flabby face I hated. And there were only 4 months between the beautiful tone I used to have and the unbalanced look I developed where I had that that heavy face.

You are right. It would not be fair to compare the results of a 30-something with a 50-something...and so that's why I didn't. My posting of photos of Vittoria et al was to show what I mean by a face not keeping the shape/balance it had, and they had nothing to do with comparing their achievements with Jaana. Heck the time span is not even the same; so that'd not be fair on Jaana as she hasn't been doing face exercises for over 8 years like Vittoria. My point was to show what "imbalance" is to me. And to that end, I gave several examples including those of someone who is not in her 30's, namely Marilyn (http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/marilyn).

And if you need another example, here you go:

Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:57 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Hence my advice to Jaana therefore would still be to focus a bit (not a lot) more on her weaker side.

cm5597, there is no "weaker side".

That's a lighting issue in the pics. It is autumn and I cannot get similar lighting than in the before pic, there just isn't enough light for that. The right side is in the shadow.

If you'd see me IRL, you'd not see what you "see" in the pic.

If you mean the symmetry of my eyes and lips (in mirrored picture), I don't think facial exercises can change that more than it already has. At least I have not seen any pics where such would have happened.

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