Bumpy skin - which of the following will help?
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free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:36 am

Okay, here's the scoop: used to have terrible acne which is pretty much gone now. However, the lower cheeks, chin and jawline have old acne scars that I'd really like GONE. Both discoloration and rough texture but I'd prefer to work on the texture first - I swear, some of these bumps have their own shadow! I think if I could get some smoothness first, it would really help with the overall appearance moreso than if I tried just to fade the spots. After spending WAY TOO MANY hours on these boards, I have a list of things I'd like to try but I don't want to go all crazy - I'm afraid my skin will just freakout and I won't know which products caused it vs. which products were actually working.

About my skin: I have pretty tough skin, I use a 8% AHA lotion as a moisturizer on it everyday and have no side effects (in fact, if anything, it makes my face LESS dry and flaky as compared to other moisturizers). I have used peels in the past without any noticeable results except 'that one time' (geez, don't we all have a story like that?) where I left a MyChelle Pumpkin Peel on for a good hour or so and had peeling and burning around my lips and nostrils for a good week. In other words, I don't think my skin would be considered "sensitive".

So, I'm thinking about the following things. If you were me, and you could ONLY DO ONE THING out of the following list, which would you do specifically to correct bumpy skin?

- copper peptides (I was actually thinking specifically about the SkinBiology Acne Scar Reduction kit from EDS (sorry, won't let me post links) - I actually had this in my shopping cart and canceled at the last second ... wanted to post this first

- a peel of some sort (either one of Julie's from the Perfect Complexion line or possibly the NCN Pumpkin peel)

- or a vitamin c serum as some people have said that corrected their skin texture.

I am not interested in Retin A, Dermarolling, etc - just in the list above.

Any help would be appreciated!

free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:12 am

Sorry, but I have to ask - why aren't you interested in Retin-A or Dermarolling?

free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:30 am

Retin-A I've tried before (along with just about every prescription known to man; funny how the stuff that actually cured my acne is all OTC) and Dermarolling is something I can't justify just yet. I might be shooting myself in the foot here, but I think I gotta try some other, less-frightening options first. I see Dermarolling as a last resort, just like going to get a professional chemical peel. Am I overreacting? Probably. BUT - it's terrifying! Needles!

Anyways, I actually did just order the SkinBiology set because I have the patience of a kindergartner. But I am still interested in what people have to say - the kit wasn't that expensive so I won't feel guilty having it sit in a drawer for a few months while I have peels done or whatever else you fine skin experts recommend!

free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:57 am

Since You mention you have resistant skin, I would honestly look into peels, something like AHA or TCA. It sounds like you will need something stronger then usual over the counter stuff. Many of here do peels our self but if you are not comfortable with definitely consult a derm.

Its good to be cautions about dermarolling. You should be well informed before you dive in.

free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:37 am

That's interesting how you consider dermarolling terrifying and copper peptides not.

I'm quite the opposite Confused

free skin care · Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:28 pm

I also can't see why you wouldn't try everything on your list and not choose just one thing. Copper peptides are perfect for combining with peels and, of course, Vitamin C is very beneficial to the skin. Many of us here try everything we can get our hands on to combat problem skin and promote anti-aging. Many products and devices can have a synergistic effect.

Just to clarify - when you refer to your skin as bumpy, are you talking about the scars left from acne or do you have congested skin as well? At any rate, I think you'll find that exfoliation is the way to go. Start off with some aggressive peels (as suggested above) - Lactic Acid is another good one. Allot of people get good results from Copper Peptides and skin remodelling, but there are others that claim they ruined their skin - so there are differing opinions out there. Vitamin C is a great anti-oxidant but it's not going to have a huge impact on scars in the short term.

If your acne scarring is really worrying you, I would see a professional - there are lots of laser treatments now that can really help this problem.

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:25 am

circus wrote:

That's interesting how you consider dermarolling terrifying and copper peptides not.

I'm quite the opposite Confused

Are you referring to "the uglies"? I guess my understanding of them is that it's more spotting/discoloration which I would rather put up with than new scarring (bumps or indents). I'm an expert at mineral make-up and can cover up anything - as long as it doesn't have a shadow.

Keliu wrote:

I also can't see why you wouldn't try everything on your list and not choose just one thing.

I guess because I'm terrified of reactivating my acne. Seriously, if you've never gone through it ... it just sucked. And it sucked for a long, long time. I'm 28 and just getting into things like lotions, serums, even make-up because all of this was UNTHINKABLE before. I would much rather change my routine in little steps so that if I do have a reaction, I can nip it in the bud immediately. I've read stories on here about (for instance) women trying out the OCM with the ACV toner afterwords, having a breakout and stopping the OCM - only months later to discover that their reaction was actually caused by the ACV toner. Know what I mean?

Keliu wrote:

when you refer to your skin as bumpy, are you talking about the scars left from acne or do you have congested skin as well?

To be completely honest, I'm not sure. They sort of look like half-formed pimples (so, basically "bumps") but they never go away OR fully form. I've been watching a few in particular that I've had for nearly a year. If I totally have a brain-fart and try to squeeze them, solid white will come out (not "pus", more like a build-up of cells) and they go down, but weeks later they'll be back in the same spot. For a while I thought they were milia, but they don't look like the one I have near my eye (what I consider to be looking like a "true whitehead"). I don't know ... my old derm said they were scars so that's what I call them.

I'm drawn to the TCA peels so I'm glad that two of you mentioned them. I like that you have quite a bit of control over how long you leave it on and how often you do it, so you can really go slowly and see what your skin will tolerate.

GirieGirl and Keliu - I take it you've done a TCA peel? And you liked the results?

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:37 am

murray28 wrote:

To be completely honest, I'm not sure. They sort of look like half-formed pimples (so, basically "bumps") but they never go away OR fully form. I've been watching a few in particular that I've had for nearly a year. If I totally have a brain-fart and try to squeeze them, solid white will come out (not "pus", more like a build-up of cells) and they go down, but weeks later they'll be back in the same spot. For a while I thought they were milia, but they don't look like the one I have near my eye (what I consider to be looking like a "true whitehead"). I don't know ... my old derm said they were scars so that's what I call them.

To me this sounds very like Sebaceous Hyperplasia - Google it and see if it fits. I have this condition, so if this is what you have, I can totally sympathize. I won't go into how I've managed to control this condition now - because I'll wait until you confirm that this is what you have or not.

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:30 am

Keliu wrote:

To me this sounds very like Sebaceous Hyperplasia - Google it and see if it fits. I have this condition, so if this is what you have, I can totally sympathize. I won't go into how I've managed to control this condition now - because I'll wait until you confirm that this is what you have or not.

I looked it up and I think I'm going to have to make another appointment at a dermatologist (arrrrgggghhhh - I hate derms but mainly due to never actually having a good one that listened to me). I looked at a LOT of pictures and the variety of the growths was really overwhelming. What I can say is this: what I have on my jaw line most resembled photos of the SH that some women had on their temples - very small bumps but lots of them very close together. I do notice that many of the growths have a visible pore, so that's a match with me ... but I also have GINORMOUS pores.

What makes me question whether I have this is 1) info on the web seems to suggest most people get it on their forehead, and I have none there; and 2) I wouldn't really call them "yellowish" in color but I am really pale so who knows. Best if I go see a professional, I guess.

I am so glad you are able to keep this condition in check. If you feel comfortable, I'd love to hear how you take care of your skin now and any lessons about Sebaceous Hyperplasia that you could pass on, as I'm sure the derm won't go beyond writing a prescription ... gawd, am I a debbie downer today or what?

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:35 am

Sorry, should have thought of this earlier. I'm still not able to post links, but here's what my bumpiness looks like if you'd like to see for yourself:

On the dermnet website, under "sebaceous hyperplasia" photos #36 and #40 (both of SH near temples), except I have this along my jaw and chin.

And, Keliu, can I just say you're a real doll?

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:14 pm

murray - a derm is going to tell you to use Retin A. it really works best at keeping clogged pores open.

what you're describing sounds like some clogged pores to me. I've had plenty of those myself. CP & Retin A have helped that.

BUT - I just recently started using a Derma Wand and THAT has almost erradicated the clogged pores and oiliness I had. It's not too expensive, either. I got mine from HSN for about $70. It's a microcurrent machine and I will use it on DRY skin for the acne issues and with a moisturizer for the anti-aging ones. I bought it w/ the intention to use it for acne and it has really helped. The Retin A and CPs I would also recommend.

If you don't want the Retin A - then a salicylic acid based (BHA) lotion/serum can replace that for exfoliation. BHAs work best for oily skin. Also, a deeper peel like Keilu mentioned would speed up the process of getting rid of the bumps. I've never done those - totally afraid of them.

I also have a couple of sebacious hyperplasia spots, and you cannot extract anything out of those. The Derma Wand has made those smaller, as did the Retin A and CPs.

I know that you can also have those SHs burned off at the derms. They're usually present on very oily skin - so getting that under control helps themost.

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:19 pm

My own story so far:

Prior to finding this Forum I had bumps and lumps pretty much all over my face - but they were worst on my forehead. Basically, I had huge pores and many of them were blocked with a whitish sebum. I am also prone to getting cysts. If I managed to squeeze them, they always came back.

I went to three derms but all said that they were very hard to get rid of because regardless of removing the sebum, they would just keep on coming back. All of the doctors just highlighted how important it was to keep the skin clean. However, one said he would laser the larger lumps - which he did successfully, but he said he could see hundreds of tiny ones all lying in wait.

So I decided to try and do something about this myself and, in the process, found this Forum. I can tell you now that my lumps don't bother me anymore. They're not entirely gone, if I look in a magnifying mirror I can still see them. I think this is a condition I will always have. But they're not visible in normal circumstances and my skin is looking the best it has in years. I'm listing below what has worked for me.

. Oil Cleansing Method - oil cleanses oil and removes sebum without stripping the skin. (This also worked for my daughter's acne).

. Lactic Acid Peels - Lactic Acid is also beneficial for the skin. The peels are easy to do.

. Salicylic Acid Toner - I use a home-made ACV and Aspirin toner, but any Salicylic Acid toner will do.

. Stopped using all moisturising creams - I now only use watery serums and oils to moisturise. For whatever reason, using oils to cleanse and moisturise has completely stopped my skin from breaking out. If I do happen to try a heavy cream the bumps reappear.

. Cut down on eating dairy, especially cheese. Dairy also seems to exacerbate the lumps.

. Retin-A. Actually, I do use the cream version of this as I find the gel too drying. I'm a huge fan of Retin-A, it is still the gold standard of skin care and it's great for problematic skin.

. Timepeel Microdermabrasion Machine. This is a recent purchase and I'm very impressed with it. I use it once a week and it has really helped to smooth my skin. Because I'm using this now, I've stopped doing the peels.

All of the above has transformed my skin. I've gone from being thoroughly ashamed of it to now receiving compliments on it. This hasn't happened overnight and has taken allot of dedication on my part. But it's been worth it.

Regardless of whether you actually have SH, all of the above will help in unblocking and clearing your skin.

Let us know how you get on at the dermatologists.

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:30 pm

murray28 wrote:

On the dermnet website, under "sebaceous hyperplasia" photos #36 and #40 (both of SH near temples), except I have this along my jaw and chin.

And, Keliu, can I just say you're a real doll?

That's what my lumps look like. The larger ones kind of have a "hole" in the middle, sort of like a mini volcano!

You can call me a doll when I've gotten rid of your lumps!!

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:26 pm

Keliu - do you not find the DermaWand useful for your skin in this matter?

free skin care · Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:12 pm

foxe wrote:

Keliu - do you not find the DermaWand useful for your skin in this matter?

I'm a huge fan of the Dermawand - I believe it's excellent for killing bacteria (as I've stated on the Dermawand thread). So it is a great tool for combating acne.

In general, I think high frequency is beneficial for skin health - it is also supposed to help with refining pores. I'm not prepared to say that it has particularly helped with my lumps, but I do use the Dermawand everyday so there may have been a contribution there. I'm so impressed with high frequency that I've just bought a "professional" 200,000 hertz model. Will report back when I receive it.

free skin care · Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:36 am

I've got an appointment with a NEW derm set up for next week so I should have a better idea of what's going on then.

Thanks for both of your recommendations! I'll definitely look into the DermaWand. I also tried OCM last week and LOVED IT (also loved how it seemed to make my AHA lotion so much more effective) but I'm going to ease into it for now - maybe just once or twice a week.
And, just to explain it a little more - when I used Retin A, it totally made my skin worse. When I was put on it (as a teenager) I had typical teenage acne and oiliness. But after a few months on Retin A, my skin became scaly, irritated, red, itchy and, most damaging to me personally, the acne went from greasy t-zone whitehead stuff to deep, deep cystic mountains that took weeks to emerge and left red spots behind that lingered for months. It was like the quality or type of my acne changed. I mean, could it have happened without going on the Retin A? Was I genetically inclined to have acne like that no matter what? Maybe ... but it was the only prescription I was on at the time. I don't know - I'd just prefer to stay away from it for a few more years if I can.

Foxe - is there a specific reason you suggest a BHA lotion/serum instead of an AHA?

Keliu - can you recommend a good lactic acid peel?

Thanks SO MUCH ladies - even if this goes nowhere, the psychological boost you've given to me by listening and suggesting - it makes me feel like I've got options and some control over this problem. Thanks!

free skin care · Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:58 am

murray28 wrote:

Keliu - can you recommend a good lactic acid peel?

I use the one from Makeup Artists Choice - it's the strongest one, 65%, but they do have a 55% and a 40% as well.

http://www.makeupartistschoice.com/products/65_Lactic_Acid_Kits-276-0.html

free skin care · Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:42 am

murray - this might explain the difference of the acids best:

"The primary difference between AHAs and BHA is that AHAs are water-soluble, while BHA is lipid-(oil) soluble. This unique property of BHA allows it to penetrate the oil in the pores and exfoliate accumulated skin cells inside the oil gland that can clog pores. BHA is best used where blackheads and blemishes are the issue, and AHAs are best for sun-damaged, thickened, dry skin where breakouts are not a problem" (Source: Global Cosmetic Industry, November 2000, pages 56-57).

Hope that helps.

With your experience with Retin A, I can see why you don't want to try it again. Retin A can cause new blemishes to surface and the advice these days (I've used it for about 20 yrs) is to continue with the application of it even though your skin looks worse. They expect that to happen and it's written into the info sheet w/ the product.

Also - it's usually advised to use it every other day until your skin gets use to it (it can also cause redness/irritation, not just increasing the show of blemishes). Once your skin is use to it, you can use it daily for the first year. After things are under control, THEN you might be able to go back to an evey other day application (for maintenance). This is the advice for acne.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:53 am

foxe wrote:

murray - this might explain the difference of the acids best:

"The primary difference between AHAs and BHA is that AHAs are water-soluble, while BHA is lipid-(oil) soluble. This unique property of BHA allows it to penetrate the oil in the pores and exfoliate accumulated skin cells inside the oil gland that can clog pores. BHA is best used where blackheads and blemishes are the issue, and AHAs are best for sun-damaged, thickened, dry skin where breakouts are not a problem" (Source: Global Cosmetic Industry, November 2000, pages 56-57).

Foxe, do you use/have you used a BHA lotion or serum? Could you give me a recommendation? Not that I won't ask the doc about Retin A (I've spent a good three hours reading threads about it here) ... it does sound like it works for just about everyone and my skin IS different now than when I used it before ... Wink

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:42 pm

murray - I used some BHAs I got fromwww.DianaYvonne.com
she has some BHAs and AHAs that have low pH values, which makes them stronger. If you have not used them before, start with the lower percentages - 1% or 2%. Get samples of the stronger ones.

She also carries Skin Biology's Copper Peptide products and Skin Bio has some gentler BHAs/AHAs. (The pH is closer to 3.2 instead of Diana's 2.0). Gentler can be better and I'm starting to lean towards that direction lately. You can also get some Stridex pads - they have a 2% BHA in them,but at a higher pH so they are on the gentle side.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:09 pm

[quote="murray28"]

circus wrote:

That's

Keliu wrote:

I also can't see why you wouldn't try everything on your list and not choose just one thing.

I guess because I'm terrified of reactivating my acne. Seriously, if you've never gone through it ... it just sucked. And it sucked for a long, long time. I'm 28 and just getting into things like lotions, serums, even make-up because all of this was UNTHINKABLE before. I would much rather change my routine in little steps so that if I do have a reaction, I can nip it in the bud immediately. I've read stories on here about (for instance) women trying out the OCM with the ACV toner afterwords, having a breakout and stopping the OCM - only months later to discover that their reaction was actually caused by the ACV toner. Know what I mean?

I know what you mean! After I finished accutane my skin was so unbelievably crystal clear, but I ruined my results by experimenting with too many products which led to a massive breakout and underground clogs that I haven't been able to get rid of since. So, I now proceed very cautiously with all ingredients so I don't repeat my mistake.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:51 pm

Just to clarify: Lactic and Glycolic Acids are both AHAs. There is only one Beta Hydroxy Acid and that is Salicylic Acid.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:23 pm

Here's a great site with useful info about AHAs and BHAs.

http://dermatology.about.com/cs/skincareproducts/a/bha.htm

It states that BHA (Salicylic Acid) is only effective if it is left on the skin and not washed off. So this makes using a Salicylic Acid Toner good sense. I make my own by combining Apple Cider Vinegar and Aspirin (Aspirin is essentially Salicylic Acid). Here's the recipe I use:

ACV Toner

4 Aspirin
100 ml Distilled Water
100 ml Apple Cider Vinegar
Few drops of Lemon Oil

Dissolve the Aspirin in the Distilled Water - you may have to heat slightly in the microwave to fully dissolve. Then combine with other ingredients.

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:01 am

Keliu wrote:

(Aspirin is essentially Salicylic Acid).

Keliu - I wouldn't qualify aspirin as simply as that. Salicylic Acid and Aspirin are both derivatives of salicylates— and aspirins technical name is acetylsalicylic acid. I would think that because of this, they wouldn't work in the same manner. It is said that Salicylic acid retains some of the anti-inflammatory conditions, but I don't think aspirin makes as good of an exfoliant as straight salicylic acid would. I've tried an aspirin mask and never was much impressed w/ it. JMO

Have you ever tried a straight BHA before?

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:12 pm

foxe wrote:

Keliu wrote:

(Aspirin is essentially Salicylic Acid).

Keliu - I wouldn't qualify aspirin as simply as that. Salicylic Acid and Aspirin are both derivatives of salicylates— and aspirins technical name is acetylsalicylic acid. I would think that because of this, they wouldn't work in the same manner. It is said that Salicylic acid retains some of the anti-inflammatory conditions, but I don't think aspirin makes as good of an exfoliant as straight salicylic acid would. I've tried an aspirin mask and never was much impressed w/ it. JMO

Have you ever tried a straight BHA before?

No I haven't tried a straight BHA. I've been meaning to order some Salicylic Acid for ages but haven't got around to it.

Aspirin is commonly recommended to use in place of Salicylic Acid in skincare recipes - and the Aspirin Mask does have a huge following - but I've never actually tried it. If you Google Aspirin and Salicylic Acid a zillion recipes will appear, so I've always presumed that it is an effective pore unclogger - but, of course, I'm no chemist.

So, I guess, if you really want to be sure that you're using a proper BHA it would be best to go with straight Salicylic Acid (which, I think, is used in a percentage of 2%).

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