Is facial exercise any good?
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free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:14 am

I understand and you certainly have a right to your personal opinion and what is happening to you as an individual that is what this forum is supposted to be for. I realize that for myself that no matter how much facial exercise I do or whose method I use that there is only so much improvement I can do as we are dealing with genetics and bone structure but there is room for some improvement which makes me feel very empowered. I know your frustration as I feel that way when certain movie stars claim that they look the way they do strictly through diet, exercise, whatever and you know darn well that they have gone under the knife, why lie about it be honest so other people do not have unrealistic expectations. I follow Dr. Perricones diet, vitamins etc and he says that a day without enough protein is a day your face will age. His female clients often ask him why their husbands look so much younger and he says generally speaking men get adaquate protein daily where woman do not sticking to salads, veggies etc. I try to eat Wild Alaskan Sockeye Salmon at least twice a week and eat chicken and turkey, I stay away from red meat. He says we should get five small protein snacks a day to make the required amount for women. Ifeel that if our muscles do not get the protein they need than they might not be able to build to the extent we want them to. So I do not think there is one magic bullet in this holistic approach you have to utilize manys to get the result we want. By the way what exercise in Ageless caused you the problem???

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:27 am

trigger wrote:

Hi there KayS. I'm glad things are working out well for you. I'm not an instant gratification type either. I've enjoyed doing ageless, even if I have had a few 'growing pains'.

By the way, I've realized this is an incredibly emotional topic for many people. Not only have I had a few stern replies from ClaudiaFE here, but when I followed her advice and directed my suggestion to LouLou that she keep a disclaimer next to her before and after photos so that people can be aware of what other 'enhancements' she's had so they keep their expectations in check, well.... see for yourself.
http://louiseannette.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=questionsforloulou%26action=display%26thread=349%26page=1

It was like there was blood in the water and the sharks went on a feeding frenzy. Loulou even made an appearance and still ignored the request for an easy to find (near the b/a's) disclosure on procedures.

I'm a little bit in shock right now. I honestly feel a bit queasy after my experience there.

You know, Trigger ... I made a lengthy post on page 4 of this thread providing you with direct links, including the page numbers and dates of the comments, AND quotes from Loulou herself from this very forum discussing her nose surgery. You haven't indicated that you've read any of that.

I have to agree with Pleiades - it seems more and more clear that you are trying to cause drama on the boards, that for some reason you wish to stir up negativity against Loulou and her program.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:28 am

Intelligent post KayS! I think you're right on the money when you talk about the many factors that have an affect on the way we look. I think most women are aware of it too, but we're all sometimes a little (almost deliberately!) naive when we want to believe someone is presenting to us the answer to all of our issues with our looks, and it's quick and easy too!

My problem with "pouchiness" isn't so bad. If you check over on the ageless and FE forums, you'll see it's entirely common there. There's threads and threads on it. I only get *slightly* annoyed when I read LL's blase responses that she never got any problems when she stared FE, as she hardly ever did it! Nor does she massage more than once a week (and that's if she can be bothered). Supposedly we're to believe her transformation was almost miraculous, considering she didn't really apply anywhere near as much effort as many of the struggling exercises over there that aren't getting the kind of results they hoped for.

I'm not saying that FE doesn't work, I DO IT! I'd just like to be able to have conversations about it that are realistic.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:36 am

trigger wrote:

Intelligent post KayS! I think you're right on the money when you talk about the many factors that have an affect on the way we look. I think most women are aware of it too, but we're all sometimes a little (almost deliberately!) naive when we want to believe someone is presenting to us the answer to all of our issues with our looks, and it's quick and easy too!

My problem with "pouchiness" isn't so bad. If you check over on the ageless and FE forums, you'll see it's entirely common there. There's threads and threads on it. I only get *slightly* annoyed when I read LL's blase responses that she never got any problems when she stared FE, as she hardly ever did it! Nor does she massage more than once a week (and that's if she can be bothered). Supposedly we're to believe her transformation was almost miraculous, considering she didn't really apply anywhere near as much effort as many of the struggling exercises over there that aren't getting the kind of results they hoped for.

I'm not saying that FE doesn't work, I DO IT! I'd just like to be able to have conversations about it that are realistic.

In response to the area bolded above ...

WOW.

In fact Loulou has written rather thoroughly about how she OVERDID the FE exercises in the beginning - she devoted a great deal of time to them and "experimented" on herself extensively. Have you actually read the Ageless thread in this forum? The reason she does "very little" in comparison now is because she's in maintenance.

Please do the actual research before making accusations over and over again.

This is really becoming outrageous.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:40 am

Wow, Trigger, that was a feeding frenzy. Blasphemy to you for not joining in on the group hug! I thought your original question on that board was fair but skepticism and objectivity seem to be completely unwelcome to LL's acolytes.

I believe in facial exercise but I do understand your skepticism and think that you should voice it -- here, there or over on FE.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:24 am

Hey there... The one thing I'm learning on this board, is that I am often perceived as overly direct. And I would like to apologize for that. I am direct. I try to be so as not to lose the message between the novel writing full of pretty adjectives. (that I'm sometimes, ahem, known for) I don't intend to be mean or condescending. But, I forget how easy it is to read that when you can't hear my tone of voice.

Trigger, I do think your question is valid. The hard part in answering it is well: In all reality. We can't. There is a leap of faith that has to be made. LL says she hasn't had a surg. I've had years of dealings with her. I don't think she's had one. She does live on the other side of the globe, and I've never met her. So, you are forced to decide.

I did post earlier in this thread about what Deb and I do/have done. And even a silly picture of my bathroom cabinet, (as if that would prove anything...LOL)

Many flexers post their routines here... I'll have to ask them to add "procedures" if they have had any... of course that can be quite personal for some. Deb and I don't get that luxury... http://flexeffect.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Share%26action=display%26thread=3343 And you know... Deb is not on the list... I think I'll have to personally add it!

Here's a picture of me at age 35 (I don't have many, as I'm the one usually taking the pictures. Or my kids are in them. I don't post many of my kids. And of course, I would NEVER post a tabloid quality photo ... we ARE RUNNING a business... LOL! My biggest issue are sleepy bags under my eyes. I have 4 y/o twins. One only started sleeping through the night around Feb. of THIS YEAR...

http://flexeffect.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general%26action=display%26thread=4149 Wink

I do welcome additional questions.

Best...

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:26 am

vangirl3 wrote:

Wow, Trigger, that was a feeding frenzy. Blasphemy to you for not joining in on the group hug! I thought your original question on that board was fair but skepticism and objectivity seem to be completely unwelcome to LL's acolytes.

I believe in facial exercise but I do understand your skepticism and think that you should voice it -- here, there or over on FE.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:50 am

Sorry, my editing time is lost on the post with links...

For some reason the links aren't opening the post, just the area they are in. If you're interested... let me know, I'll direct you better...

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:51 am

Metaphora wrote:

trigger wrote:

Intelligent post KayS! I think you're right on the money when you talk about the many factors that have an affect on the way we look. I think most women are aware of it too, but we're all sometimes a little (almost deliberately!) naive when we want to believe someone is presenting to us the answer to all of our issues with our looks, and it's quick and easy too!

My problem with "pouchiness" isn't so bad. If you check over on the ageless and FE forums, you'll see it's entirely common there. There's threads and threads on it. I only get *slightly* annoyed when I read LL's blase responses that she never got any problems when she stared FE, as she hardly ever did it! Nor does she massage more than once a week (and that's if she can be bothered). Supposedly we're to believe her transformation was almost miraculous, considering she didn't really apply anywhere near as much effort as many of the struggling exercises over there that aren't getting the kind of results they hoped for.

I'm not saying that FE doesn't work, I DO IT! I'd just like to be able to have conversations about it that are realistic.

In response to the area bolded above ...

WOW.

In fact Loulou has written rather thoroughly about how she OVERDID the FE exercises in the beginning - she devoted a great deal of time to them and "experimented" on herself extensively. Have you actually read the Ageless thread in this forum? The reason she does "very little" in comparison now is because she's in maintenance.

Please do the actual research before making accusations over and over again.

This is really becoming outrageous.

Actually, LL has stated that she overdid FE, that's correct, BUT, she also stated on Ageless, when asked for specific details of how she did the program, it seems it was quite haphazardly.

Nothing about maintenance, just that she did the exercises hit and miss, didn't count reps, ect., and that she was glad that she wasn't so focused on her face and the exercises.

Not trying to add to any problems, just my observations.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:03 am

That's also what I read Linda Lou.

Love to see your pics Claudia! I couldn't find them, but I'm not the best at these things. Phew, sounds like a bit of a full life you've got there!

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:41 am

Hey Trigger... scroll up to my post that starts "hey there"...

There is a link, you will have to log in... My ONE picture is in the 2nd post...

Be gentle... you're looking at one exhausted mom!

Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:40 pm

Quote:

ok...so, I joined the FE forum, jumped through the usual hoops

Sorry, I didn't realize the link from Loulou's photo page didn't go straight through Confused

I went back to the FE photo page and saw that Loulou's photos have been removed Shock

I wonder if Loulou requested it? It's probably a good call for both Deb and Loulou.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:34 pm

you look lovely and fresh! no need for excuses! Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:55 pm

Thanks Trigger... I tell you, I look more refreshed than I ever remember feeling...

Chit Chat... I have to talk with Deb, she must have recently removed those photos... (what???? she didn't check with me first??? LOL!) I'll have to give her a call to determine her reasoning. It's been at least 2 hours since we talked last!

Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:15 pm

Hi Trigger Dancing

I found this post, it might explain a lot.

Quote:

“Hi LouLou, Glad to see you're doing well after surgery. I am continuing to do your exercises and appreciate them so much. Of all the gadgets, serums, etc. hands down your exercises have made the most difference. I do have one question for you - you mentioned in your before exercise pictures that you were not taking HRT - but since then you started taking hormones. How much of your improvement do you attribute to taking HRT? I am 51, definitely in menopause, but have no symptoms. I've read how HRT really helps in the aging of your skin. Not sure if I want to go down that road - just curious what your thoughts are on the subject. Thanks again for your exercises and video.” Tammy

Hi Tammy,

"...I do have HRT now but I'm pre-menopause in the 'Before' pic.

My menopause was very early, and in this case it's pretty much routine in the UK to have HRT so as to avoid premature thinning of skin, membranes and bone... I'd already had some bone loss and prematurely aged skin by the time anyone realized I'd had the menopause, and it's certainly true that in my case the menopause aged me.

In the pic of me in my 30s, though, I was definitely pre-menopausal as I was breastfeeding my younger daughter at the time... In the larger version of the pic you can see her little baby hand on my shoulder awww . It amazes me now, but I actually came to look much older than I did in that pic before I began to exercise my face and began the HRT. There are just no pics of me except in the far distance or turned away from the camera showing a sliver of my face. It's hard to get a good picture of me at the best of times as my nose photographs umm awkwardly. There may be a relative or two with a pic of me oestrogen-depleted and gaunt... I wouldn't let anyone take one, not thinking that I would ever look any healthier.

Hope this helps a bit ((((hugs)

LL

BTW - what the hell is going on with Ageless Whow Shock

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:39 pm

Yes, wow. The claws are out. All over a simple question of clear disclosure. It's about the nastiest place I've ever visited on my endless quest for ageless beauty! I've gotten over my initial shock, and am now managing to view it with a bit of humour. It's certainly required in these instances (not that I've ever been in one of THESE instances before)! There's a first for everything, I guess.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:41 pm

Mishey wrote:

I've just gotta say, who cares if LL has had a nose job! I mean really.
It won't make any difference to the muscle build in her face whatever has been done to her nose. I don't think she needs to even keep going over it with people all the time. It's not the nose that we work on when we do face exercises.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding abit nasty here, but I just don't get the fuss.

Mishey - I agree. Aren't we supposed to be discussing face lifting? and what's that got to do with the nose or change in the nose?

I hope we're not seeing jealousy here? Something isn't feeling right.

I use Ageless If You Dare and I like It - others do also. FE is good also as is Carol Maggio and Lea Eigard and others. I use them all. I do not think they are a copy of FE. I've found value in so many of the exercises and quite frankly some places have better neck and chin, some have better cheeks, etc, etc

Lou Lou has not lost her fabulous facial build because she is no longer doing FE. She has actually refined it into something that is amazing from her FE roots.... Good for her. Obviously she found what works for her and she is using it and her results speak for itself. Just as Deb Crowley's do for her.

Here's another thought I've had: Flex Effect has a forum - one that is comprehensive and available for all those that buy into the program ... and parts are available to those who do not. I have to wonder sometimes why the FE folks (trainers and trainers to be) spend so much time discussing facial exercise over here on EDS when there own forum is alive and well. You don't see any other facial exercise people on here doing that. Lou Lou hasn't been here in months - since before her own forum came into effect.
That is probably why there are some here that think there may be promoting and other such things going on.

The information you get from me or others is from someone outside of the business. I'm not afraid to say I like the way Carol Maggio does her scoop exercise or the under chin exercise of Lea Eigerd is awesome. (and both FREE)... I'm not here to protect anyone's financial or business interest. I do get a tad annoyed whenever it seems that might be going on.

Claudia and Sean know their stuff regarding FE only and the tips are great.... I appreciate them (even Claudia's directness!) but when someone's opinion is coming from what they know of ONE and only one place I have to recognize that and take it for what it's worth. (That said... Sean has given me some good ideas for balancing a few programs and I have taken his suggestions and put to good use.).

I am not sure what is going on here - I read some of the posts on LL's forum also and even there it's a feeling of "someone stirring up trouble"... but why? I'm with Mishey - I just don't get the fuss.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:21 pm

Sister Sweet,

Quote:

Here's another thought I've had: Flex Effect has a forum - one that is comprehensive and available for all those that buy into the program ... and parts are available to those who do not. I have to wonder sometimes why the FE folks (trainers and trainers to be) spend so much time discussing facial exercise over here on EDS when there own forum is alive and well. You don't see any other facial exercise people on here doing that. Lou Lou hasn't been here in months - since before her own forum came into effect.
That is probably why there are some here that think there may be promoting and other such things going on.

You really don't understand why FE folks spend so much time discussing facial exercise on EDS??? Shock

The very name of this thread should be a clue: Is facial exercise any good?

1st post of this thread: I've been hearing alot of good things about facial exercisein preventing wrinkles and tighting and toning your skin. I like to know everyone's opinion regarding this.

Another thread: Ageless if you Dare - Loulou's Facial Exercises - which BTW is a link! Now why you didn't jump all over that one??? sounds a bit like promoting to me.

1st Post: This is a thread for discussion of Ageless if you Dare - Loulou's Facial Exercises http://www.lulu.com/content/4463137

Another thread: Do you do Facial Exercises?

1st post: I'd love to find a brief routine that's tried and tested, that I can do, say, while watching TV. Does anyone have a recommendation, please? (I want particularly to do some neck excercise to stop turkey neck coming , and something to refine cheekbone structure.)
________________

Is there some reason why you feel FE trainers should just stay on the FE forum? You said Loulou doesn't come here, well Deb isn't here either. Loulou's moderators are also here, so what's the problem? You don't here anyone saying Loulou's followers should stick to Loulou's forum.

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:18 pm

sister sweets wrote:

Mishey wrote:

I've just gotta say, who cares if LL has had a nose job! I mean really.
It won't make any difference to the muscle build in her face whatever has been done to her nose. I don't think she needs to even keep going over it with people all the time. It's not the nose that we work on when we do face exercises.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding abit nasty here, but I just don't get the fuss.

Mishey - I agree. Aren't we supposed to be discussing face lifting? and what's that got to do with the nose or change in the nose?

SS, Trigger unfortch asked a fair question -- what else has LL done aside from facial exercises?-- which has been totally sidetracked due to her silly observations about LL's nose. That same question was asked by both yourself and Kassy near the beginning of this thread ("why don't these facial exercise gurus come clean.." sorry, that's not verbatim)and will always be asked as facial exercises are so alien to the 'beauty establishment'.

sister sweets wrote:

Here's another thought I've had: Flex Effect has a forum - one that is comprehensive and available for all those that buy into the program ... and parts are available to those who do not. I have to wonder sometimes why the FE folks (trainers and trainers to be) spend so much time discussing facial exercise over here on EDS when there own forum is alive and well.

Hmmm good point. I think there's a fine line between selling a product and protecting a brand. I think Claudia, Sean & Cathy have been upfront and haven't come across (to me anyway, but I like FE and you could make the case I'm biased) as trying to 'sell' FE. Claudia has definitely protected her brand and all three have given some good guidance to those unititiated in facial exercise. Does doing that help promote FE? Sure, but what's wrong with that? There are plenty of other 'brand' people on this forum (I think the AALS or the tuo viso person... can't remember) and as long as there's full disclosure who cares.

sister sweets wrote:

You don't see any other facial exercise people on here doing that. Lou Lou hasn't been here in months - since before her own forum came into effect.
That is probably why there are some here that think there may be promoting and other such things going on.

Disagree. There are plenty of people flogging their products (not all facial exercises) here. I believe there is now a woman who promotes Carol Maggio and links people to her blog. As far as LL is concerned, c'mon, she used EDS to launch her product! Very savvy on her part. If you don't think that was strategic (despite the offhand 'by the way I've started my own exercise program' manner), I think you're naive. I would say it's ironic that she no longer posts here. She doesn't need to.

sister sweets wrote:

I am not sure what is going on here - I read some of the posts on LL's forum also and even there it's a feeling of "someone stirring up trouble"... but why? I'm with Mishey - I just don't get the fuss.

Yeah, have to agree. It does feel like something is rotten in the state of Denmark. As far as the Ageless forum is concerned, I feel a bit sorry for LL as that forum was handed to her. She didn't start it, it was started by one of her fans and she's barely ever present there. It doesn't seem that she is terribly interested in maintaining a forum. I don't think she realized it was all going to be as demanding as it's become -- a bit of a monster, in fact. Seems a bit like the inmates are running the asylum over there and the mods and many of the vets are hindering rather than helping the situation.

chitchat wrote:

Is there some reason why you feel FE trainers should just stay on the FE forum? You said Loulou doesn't come here, well Deb isn't here either. Loulou's moderators are also here, so what's the problem? You don't here anyone saying Loulou's followers should stick to Loulou's forum.

Chitchat, I'm really curious as to who you are on the FE board? Since you are getting certified I assume you post a lot on the FE forum. Full disclosure and all...

free skin care · Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:46 pm

Linda Lou wrote:

Actually, LL has stated that she overdid FE, that's correct, BUT, she also stated on Ageless, when asked for specific details of how she did the program, it seems it was quite haphazardly.

Nothing about maintenance, just that she did the exercises hit and miss, didn't count reps, ect., and that she was glad that she wasn't so focused on her face and the exercises.

Not trying to add to any problems, just my observations.

Yes, Linda Lou - while I barely post at all on Loulou's forum (I just haven't had any particular questions for her) - I have read quite a bit over there and I've seen Loulou describe how she is rather lackadaisical with her current routine - with both exercises and massage.

But Loulou's also made it clear that when she started - when she really put the focus in on changing her face - she did quite a bit of work, in fact more than she recommends most people attempt, because it brought on "uglies" and such. She may not have used the term "maintenance" when referring to her current regime but that's certainly how I understand it after reading all she's posted ... that after putting in concentrated effort towards achieving a result she wanted, and then indeed achieving that result, she now doesn't need to do very much in order to maintain said result.

Which is, I understand, the same situation with any exercise program, whether focused on body or on face. A lot of work goes into achieving a desired result, but after that, maintaining the result takes much less time and effort.

I'm glad to see she responded to Trigger's question on her forum quite openly and graciously. For anyone who missed it, see Loulou's response here - the first post on page 2 of the thread Trigger started:
http://louiseannette.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=questionsforloulou%26action=display%26thread=349%26page=2

(If clicking the link does not work, then copy and paste it into your browser and it should work.)

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:28 am

vangirl3 wrote:

Chitchat, I'm really curious as to who you are on the FE board? Since you are getting certified I assume you post a lot on the FE forum. Full disclosure and all...

Ditto that. Smile

Are you on LouLou's board as
well?

BTW, fair, succinct, and objective post, Vangirl.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:31 am

pleiades wrote:

BTW, fair, succinct, and objective post, Vangirl.

I meant to include you as well Metaphora, but the edit function timed out.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:12 am

Well I've been on both FE and ageless. I've witnessed the recent stirring by trigger and I've witnessed the unimpressive response by SOME posters. Many have been very gracious.
It wasn't nice.
There are some posters on every forum who get cliquey and let the side down.
It is the same for FE, no difference I have seen some unpleasant posting there too.
I find the current trend in ageless to be all kissy/huggy a bit ott but similarly I found many of the trainers on FE to be very stiff and clinical, no warmth.
That's just my opinion.
One prog is not better than the other, each one has its merits and drawbacks. Each one will suit someone better than someone else.

I find devotees of FE equally as over-protective of DEB and FE as the ladies on ageless are of LL. I wish there was less fawning on both progs tbh.

The whole notion that there is rivalry is absolutely bonkers

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:19 am

claraboo wrote:

Well I've been on both FE and ageless. I've witnessed the recent stirring by trigger and I've witnessed the unimpressive response by SOME posters. Many have been very gracious.
It wasn't nice.
There are some posters on every forum who get cliquey and let the side down.
It is the same for FE, no difference I have seen some unpleasant posting there too.
I find the current trend in ageless to be all kissy/huggy a bit ott but similarly I found many of the trainers on FE to be very stiff and clinical, no warmth.
That's just my opinion.
One prog is not better than the other, each one has its merits and drawbacks. Each one will suit someone better than someone else.

I find devotees of FE equally as over-protective of DEB and FE as the ladies on ageless are of LL. I wish there was less fawning on both progs tbh.

The whole notion that there is rivalry is absolutely bonkers

Very good post IMO, and very true!

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:24 am

The question that I was encouraged here to ask Loulou (about her dramatic facial transformation) that I did then go to do over on her Ageless forum resulted in some horrific abuse. Many uses of the word TROLL (that's what I am apparently for daring ask a question. btw, many of the abusive posts have been edited to remove the Troll word and other abuses, due to some outrage by other newbies on the forum) Veterans over there (whatever that means) and moderators alike joined in the abuse.

Now, I admit to being a little facetious, both in real life and on the net, and recognize it's not always viewed with much humour in written form. It's hard to catch my Aussie jesting. But what is most perturbing, besides the name calling and abuse, is the absolute hatred and paranoia that exists about Flex Effect over there. Time and again I was accused of being in cahoots with FE and having an agenda, which is simply not the truth. My first interactions with anyone from FE happened here, yesterday. I have no idea why they hate FE so much, as I thought the original dramatic changes to Loulou's face were as a result of FE.

I questioned Loulou, because that was the program I'd invested time, energy and money in. I didn't invest in FE, because I also found the tiny cut up photos of Deb's face quite frustrating, and it's what turned me off (that and what appeared to me as overly enlarged jaws and chins on other success story b/a's).

Now, for the sake of fairness, and at the vicious prodding of those on Ageless, I feel like I've addressed the issue, that I too would like to see more disclosure from all programs that sell to hopeful women wanting to improve their faces and slow the signs of aging. Claudia has been forthcoming with a pretty picture of herself that looked lovely, but I wouldn't say a whole lot younger than my comparatively un-exercised face at the same age (yet I haven't had children, to be fair).

If Deb would put up a recent picture of her whole face, I'm sure it would go a long way towards credibility in FE.

I don't feel this is off track, as this subject was discussed earlier in the thread. I'd like to say more on other facial exercise gurus, but have no further experience with the others.

I hope this puts to rest the idea that I'm 'in bed' with FE.

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