Is facial exercise any good?
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free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:28 am

From Wikipedia:

Application of the term troll is highly subjective. Some readers may characterize a post as trolling, while others may regard the same post as a legitimate contribution to the discussion, even if controversial. The term is often used as an ad hominem strategy to discredit an opposing position by attacking its proponent.

Often, calling someone a troll makes assumptions about a writer's motives. Regardless of the circumstances, controversial posts may attract a particularly strong response from those unfamiliar with the robust dialogue found in some online, rather than physical, communities. Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls".

I call it as I see it.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:37 am

pleiades wrote:

vangirl3 wrote:

Chitchat, I'm really curious as to who you are on the FE board? Since you are getting certified I assume you post a lot on the FE forum. Full disclosure and all...

Ditto that. Smile

Are you on LouLou's board as
well?

BTW, fair, succinct, and objective post, Vangirl.

Hey Pleides,

No, I haven't posted on LL's board -- I don't do her program, but I have incorporated a couple of her exercises into my FE routine (I bought her book download when it first came out). Having said that I do go over there to see how people are doing with their exercising.

Original question on this thread: "Are facial exercises any good?"

YES

Vangirl

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:42 am

vangirl3 wrote:

Original question on this thread: "Are facial exercises any good?"

YES

Vangirl

OMG was that the question? LOL!

YES...

Anyone else?

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:21 pm

Linda Lou wrote:

claraboo wrote:

Well I've been on both FE and ageless. I've witnessed the recent stirring by trigger and I've witnessed the unimpressive response by SOME posters. Many have been very gracious.
It wasn't nice.
There are some posters on every forum who get cliquey and let the side down.
It is the same for FE, no difference I have seen some unpleasant posting there too.
I find the current trend in ageless to be all kissy/huggy a bit ott but similarly I found many of the trainers on FE to be very stiff and clinical, no warmth.
That's just my opinion.
One prog is not better than the other, each one has its merits and drawbacks. Each one will suit someone better than someone else.

I find devotees of FE equally as over-protective of DEB and FE as the ladies on ageless are of LL. I wish there was less fawning on both progs tbh.

The whole notion that there is rivalry is absolutely bonkers

Very good post IMO, and very true!

That is hitting the nail on the head - great post you two! Smile

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:34 pm

There are many facial exercise programs out there, and I own a few and have used a good few in my time, and I even purchased Ageless, as I know Lou from her FE days (hey we both became trainers at the same time) and always liked reading her ideas, and still do to this day when my schedule allows. With regards to facial exercises, as many people who own one will no doubt share, when you start learning and seeing changes happening before your very eyes, it motivates the curiosity in you, and you want to learn more but you also want to share the journey with others.

Sister raises a good question. My response as to why I use EDS is very simple, I love the info that is shared here, and it is a great source of reviews, and I have even learned things about my teaching style and training styles from hearing feedback from others about what they appreciated or didn’t appreciate about modern gadgets etc and if there is a skincare item that can help people, who experience a particular problem, then so much the better.

Facial exercises are a passion of mine, and many people who do them and see the changes happen do also make it a passion of their’s and you want to kind of spread the word. Having said that, and I know I’m a parrot now as I have said this before, although I’m a trainer of FE, I know FE can seem too aggressive early on for some people, and hey if your nervous about touching your face or a particular issue or you don’t have much time to spend each day, then sometimes its good to test the water, and if I can recommend something to someone who is on the line about doing them, so much the better.

I don’t sell FE, I don’t get a cut in the sales, but I do teach it live in person, but I don't recommend FE for everyone, sometimes I recognize people are not able to commit to a program or have challenges of some sort that need to be addressed before they could undertake any such program. Sometimes I can help them adapt a program, or modify it somewhat or even combine programs (and many people are combining FE and Ageless and having great success – and bravo to them and anyone else doing so).

I think part of the issue going on is people are very passionate about doing facial exercises (and this is what I think is going on in the Ageless forum from what I read to that link), that some people are seeing Trigger’s query as an insult rather than a genuine query. I think that perhaps there has been a knee jerk reaction to Trigger’s post, and name calling just isn’t nice but in online communities these things happen, hey its even happened on EDS before. Whatever the reason there’s little excuse for it I know, but I’m hoping this kind of explains a little as to why sometimes these things happen on a forum at least (although I’m not a member of the Ageless forum but have seen this happen in the past elsewhere).

Claraboo your post raises interesting points. In the early days of Ageless I became aware that there were people trying to kind of create wars behind the scenes, between Ageless and FE, and that saddened me because I didn’t wish any harm to Lou or her program and was actually in support of her being creative with it. Re being stiff and clinical, I don’t know what to do other than apologise, as I am sure it wasn’t intentional, I certainly don’t try to be that way so can only apologise if I have done that in some way?

As you say there are merits and drawbacks to both these specific programs, but also many others. Not every facial exercise program out there has a forum to support it like Ageless FE do, but that’s starting to change. Interestingly enough when Deb first started up the FE forum, she had many trouble makers who wanted to kind of rubbish facial exercises altogether, and I find it reassuring that EDS has threads such as this to promote them (and I have no quarms which program they promote), whats good for one is good for the whole I think personally.

Sean

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:39 pm

Sorry I duped my post somehow. Laughing

But hell yeah - Facial Exercises definitely work!

Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:00 pm

Hi Sean

I haven't posted here in months, and I certainly haven't chimed in on this subject on the Ageless board, though I've been reading and I have my opinions...

I just wanted to say that's a really nice post of yours.....

Hope you're keeping well.

Alice

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:05 pm

Hey Alice, hugs to ya girl, I missed ya. Its true though, I really do mean the above, and it saddens me to hear such tales like this as it doesn't do us facial exercisers any justice and can be off putting to others. Its a small selection that gets represented in these online arguments, and I think it doesn't do anyone a real justice!

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:06 pm

Yes Sean that was a very nice post. I must say you do seem to have softened somewhat Wink

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:07 pm

Claraboo thanks to you to, you also! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:25 pm

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Re being stiff and clinical, I don’t know what to do other than apologise, as I am sure it wasn’t intentional, I certainly don’t try to be that way so can only apologise if I have done that in some way?

Sean

Oh c'mon, Sean. Please. You have no need to apologize for being 'stiff and clinical'. Nor does Claudia have to apologize for being 'direct'. OMG, but my take on all these forums is that we're here to get and share information. I didn't realize it had to be sealed with a kiss and tied with a red ribbon. You do and have done backflips trying to help people on the FE forum. Including Emma. Unfair to criticize the timbre of your posts.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:11 pm

Regarding the subject of this post:

Are facial exercises good? YESSSS ABSOLUTELY!

Now, are the programs out there good? Sure they are, some more than others depending the person and his/her needs.

I just want to say that I have been doing facial exercises BEFORE I even know about programs developed specifically for it. That gave me , knowledge of my face and good time to experiment with it (which I love) and see how did respond to different stimulation and workouts. At that time I was a lot more focused on trying to change some features of my face (slightly, of course) than actually rejuvenating through facial exercises or keeping my face youthful.

Few years ago I accidentally discovered facial exercises programs and I started to look at them.

I was really happy to find them, I got great knowledge, good results, great variations of exercises, incredible surprises when I found some ex, exact or very similar to the ones I did pre discovering prograns, and, at the same time I got bit disappointed when the results I saw did not fit my expectations.

That is why I have never-ever followed strictly one program. I have to admit I have learned a lot since starting to find out more about some specific training developed by other people. I still do. And I am very thankful they exist.

I wanted to explain this 'cause I think it is not fair to blame any program to do this or that to my face. Let's be honest. Everyone knows or have heard about the biceps muscle. Everyone is familiar about the look of this muscle when it is worked lifting weights or swimming or doing ballet. Now, how many people have heard about the corrugator? How many of them know how it will respond depending the stimulation you give it? Just few. Not many. And from those, how many of them are willing to take the time to investigate, to go through weird stages, to keep finding the perfect training for them at their own risk?
Facial exercising is not like maths at all. First take time to know your face and second takes an adventurous spirit to go for it challenging all the teachings saying not to do certain things to it, and third takes a lot of implication and responsibility about ourselves and our decisions.

The perfect solution will be to have a personal trainer that could see our faces, and how they respond. But to be realistic that's not an option for the majority.

When we decide to go ahead and to trust someone who has already done all the dirty work, researching, experimenting, finding out what works the best, and finally deciding to share it with the rest... Well, It is our CHOICE to go for it.
It is totally up to us to put our faces into someones expertise or to try to find out our own routine re facial ex.

If something doesn't work for me, I do not, I cannot blame the program that stands behind.
I have tried and does not work. So what? Unless there is a physical person sitting in front of me and giving me precise directions and a personal program to fit my needs I simply can't blame someone who has done his best to share what has worked for him/her and many others.
I understand that every face is entirely different from any other and what works for me does not necessarily have to work at the same degree, speed and results for any other.
Further more, the same face can totally have different needs depending on many factors as age, stress, illness and so many. We are looking for a perfect formula that simply doesn't exist. At least not in a form of an standard program. It is simply impossible. Our genetics, the way we live, our addictions or bad habits.... many things can affect the results.

One last thing: nowadays there are tons of information available, I wish I had knew about them when I first started my journey, I would have definitely a shorter trip to develop my very personal and perfect (if that does exist) facial exercise routine. I think we are lucky to have so many options available to play with and incorporate to our facial exercises routine.

Sorry for my long post Sad

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:20 pm

Wonderful, intelligent post! Have you got any pictures up anywhere showing your journey? It's great to hear from someone who's been doing facial exercise a long time, that doesn't have any vested interests, and isn't 'in love' with any one training style. I'll keep an eye out for more from you on this topic.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:53 pm

oh dear vangirl, I think you are missing the point

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:15 pm

claraboo wrote:

oh dear vangirl, I think you are missing the point

I don't 'think' so. I chose to make another point. Wink

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:36 pm

Zenity wrote:

I wanted to explain this 'cause I think it is not fair to blame any program to do this or that to my face....

I agree, Zenity. All exercise programs are targeting the same muscles -- their approaches are different. It's less often the exercise that is the problem (unless of course the program calls for too much/too little intensity) than the 'technique' the exerciser himself is applying (as opposed to the technique of the program).

Zenity wrote:

How many of them know how it will respond depending the stimulation you give it? Just few. Not many. And from those, how many of them are willing to take the time to investigate, to go through weird stages, to keep finding the perfect training for them at their own risk?

My experience too. It takes a lot of perseverence and patience. It takes looking at your face when an awkward stage develops and saying 'how am I exercising this muscle wrong' vs 'omg look at what the program is doing to my face.' Unfortch, this is when people tend to drop out of programs and blame them instead of trying to figure out how they are doing things wrong (or assessing their face for physiological reasons).

Zenity wrote:

First take time to know your face and second takes an adventurous spirit to go for it challenging all the teachings saying not to do certain things to it, and third takes a lot of implication and responsibility about ourselves and our decisions.

Right on, Zenity. I've been doing exercises for just over a year. I am not where I want to end up, but I'm happy at this point with where I am. I think I've made good progress but it takes time. It's really only the last 6 months where I feel I am getting the nuances of the exercises and how they affect my face though some parts of my face perked up within the first month or two. I do look a lot better and more youthful than I did two years ago when I had botox, and filler in tts. Seriously.

Thanks Zenity, great to hear from a facial exerciser who's followed their own route.

Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:40 pm

Quote:

Chitchat, I'm really curious as to who you are on the FE board? Since you are getting certified I assume you post a lot on the FE forum. Full disclosure and all...

When I started my training with Deb she told me to get on the forum. I did but I have never felt the need to post or ask questions - have Deb right in my back yard. I’ve spent more time on other forms than FE but always checked in to see what’s going on. Actually, the majority of Cert. Trainers are not on the forum. Anyway I’m Bell on FE

Am I on Ageless? No, but naturally I read the forum and also have LL’s book. All cert. trainers should know what all is out there (up to date)

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:52 pm

Hi -
just chiming in here from my experience as a martial artist.
I have been lucky in having trained in many many disciplines.(judo, kenjitsu/hapkido/tang soo do/ taikwondo/kenpo) I am closest to black in two of the disciplines - taekwon do and hapkido.
But my observation is this: at a certain level most of the instructors believe their style they teach and are black belted in is the superior discipline.
It is when they have become black belts in multiple disciplines they are more open minded.ANd what ethey say is that learn as much as you can about everything- but practice the basics daily. Because it is the basics that are the same across the board and the basics that in a pinch in a real life situation that will quite possible save your life.
anyway- that is my passion and where i have spent most of my free time since 1996 (there and with my horse...)
and the basics are the same in riding too.
lol... ok... even though there are many riding styles you still have to put yourself on top of the horse and move WITH the horse...
..

sorry if this seems off the wall...

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:56 pm

Linda Lou wrote:

Vangirl, It's why I struggle with Carole Maggio for example.

I personally think she's had everything known to man to make one younger, perhaps just short of a full face lift.

She's got zero credibility in my book as do some of the others.

Linda

Linda,

Unless you've had the chance to meet with Carole in person, I wouldn't be making accusatory statements that she's had cosmetic surgery or other procedures performed. Come on now ~ that doesn't seem to be in her best interest since she's the Queen of Green, does it? She's out there promoting her natural anti-aging Facercise program, and having cosmetic surgery on the side. Listen, it's okay to be a LouLu Ageless Groupie, but to accuse Carole of having numerous procedures done is not only unfair, but ignorant on your part. She absolutely is the real deal and would, in fact, be putting her reputation on the line if she ever stepped foot into a plastic surgeons office. I could just see the headlines in the National Enquirer or Star. By the way, she's trained the stars out in Hollywood and even the Queen of Noor. Perhaps you should think before you speak next time. What you said doesn't even make sense, no more than saying LouLu or any other facial exercise guru has had plastic surgery. Aprile

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:06 pm

aprile wrote:

Linda Lou wrote:

Vangirl, It's why I struggle with Carole Maggio for example.

I personally think she's had everything known to man to make one younger, perhaps just short of a full face lift.

She's got zero credibility in my book as do some of the others.

Linda

Linda,

Unless you've had the chance to meet with Carole in person, I wouldn't be making accusatory statements that she's had cosmetic surgery or other procedures performed. Come on now ~ that doesn't seem to be in her best interest since she's the Queen of Green, does it? She's out there promoting her natural anti-aging Facercise program, and having cosmetic surgery on the side. Listen, it's okay to be a LouLu Ageless Groupie, but to accuse Carole of having numerous procedures done is not only unfair, but ignorant on your part. She absolutely is the real deal and would, in fact, be putting her reputation on the line if she ever stepped foot into a plastic surgeons office. I could just see the headlines in the National Enquirer or Star. By the way, she's trained the stars out in Hollywood and even the Queen of Noor. Perhaps you should think before you speak next time. What you said doesn't even make sense, no more than saying LouLu or any other facial exercise guru has had plastic surgery. Aprile

First of all, do you have some kind of vested interest in Facercise?

Second, I am not ignorant, nor do I consider myself a "groupie" of Loulou's.

Haven't you been reading there lately? I'm hardly someone who's a favorite of hers, in all honesty, and that's because I ask too many questions about the results of her program, and how to proceed to avoid weird results.

I'm also entitled to my opinion. I've read on many different forums, that others have thought CM had PS, and I have to admit, I agree. I've also talked on the phone with the initiator of another very well known facial exercise program, and she says that CM had PS years ago.

If she hasn't good for her. But it's amazing what she's been able to accomplish at 60 with facial ex's, even more so then Deb, and not nearly with the same amount of resistance!

Is there a full moon out there? Seems like many are in the mood to be insulting and argue lately.

Peace out.

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:03 pm

Linda,

No vested interest in Facercise, but you're not being fair here. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion just doesn't make any sense. In Carole's book she tells a story about how when she was a little girl she noticed a woman in an elevator who looked weird to her. She asked her mother what was wrong with the woman, her mother told her she'd had plastic surgery. When Carole was married to her 1st husband, he noticed she was aging prematurely and hence she developed her Facercise program. Carole's dedicated her life to anti-aging naturally. Women come into her spa all the time with botched ps, botox, & even fillers that migrate on the faces of these women. Women who've had Fraxel lasers to get rid of wrinkles, only to deal with the consequence of lost facial fat, which ages the face!! If you look at her very carefully, on a video, you will note how naturally her face moves while she talks. Compare her to many of the stars, i.e., Barbara Walters, Joan Rivers, Meg Ryan and numerous others. My God even Katie Couric's had botox ~ she can hardly move her forehead anymore!!! Honestly, just because others or even other facial exercise gurus out there claim Carole's had surgery, that doesn't make it gospel either. It ticks me off to hear people tear her down. I know for a fact that she works very hard helping women achieve success with her program. I am one of those women who sought her help numerous times without paying her a dime, and she's a celebrity in that community. She helped me when I was at my lowest point, after I'd lost my last 10 lbs. from pregnancy. She's appeared on Dateline, been interviewed by various newspeople and appeared in numerous magazines, trained movie stars and the Queen. What I'm saying is ignornant is that in the world we live in today ~ do you really think she'd get away with having work done without being exposed? Come on!! Just because she's 62 and looks awesome doesn't mean she's had work done. She not only works the muscles of her face hard every day, she uses her awesome facial beauty mitt, skincare line, enzymes, etc. You too can build muscle which will lift & tone your face. If done properly, Facercise can & will change the way you look. It worked for me. When I look back on photos when I first started to now, I see a younger, stronger and more lifted face. Not only that, my nose is shorter & looks straight now! Check out my blog about natural beauty solutions at http://aprilevesblog.blogspot.com/ You may need to cut and paste to view the page. I am also going to post more of my photos there soon. Aprile

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:21 pm

Aprile,
Thanks for taking the time to explain all that to me.

I'm a very non combative person, but I will always fight for my right to express my opinion.

Yes, I'm very well acquainted with CM. I've talked with her on the phone twice, and when I naively asked her if she ever had PS, she turned REAL ugly, and threatened to sue me for slander......and she said she was going to follow through, since she had my name and address, as I used to order her products.

Now, this was quite awhile ago. I was 41 yrs. old at the time, and looked pretty good, quite frankly.

I wanted to stave off some of the telltale signs of aging that were starting, however.

Why I find it so implausible that ALL of her results aren't from the very least, the help of botox and fillers, is because 3 of my friends, of about the same age at the time, started her program.

None of us got much in the way of results. We had agreed to follow it faithfully for 6 mos, to see what would happen.

I was so disgusted, I gave up.

ANyhow, I know all about her story, where she mentions PS, but I'd ask you to think about this; her face IS her business. Her feelings about tweaking the face unnaturallly could possibly change, since the way she looks will determine if she stays in business.

SHE CAN technically say she's not had PS, if she had botox/fillers/lasars, anything that is not considered totally invasive.

I will say that I feel Cynthia Rowland has also imbibed of the same type of methods to stay in business.

Her face now looks so different from the video she released in the 90s that it's unbelievable.

Yes, unbelievable that her face is the result of facial exercise, which indeed may help, but in no way reverses the aging process to the degree that it supposedly has for these women.

If I'm wrong, so be it.

Linda

free skin care · Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:00 pm

Vangirl you said "Oh c'mon, Sean. Please. You have no need to apologize for being 'stiff and clinical'. Nor does Claudia have to apologize for being 'direct'." actually I disagree. Life is about learning, learning from mistakes, learning to do things better. Learning when we've upset people. This is how we grow and improve ( and I include myself in this of course)

lindalou I have to say I disagree about CM. In the book she looks great, but in any clips I've seen of her doing interviews, she looks to me like someone who has had a lot of 'work' done. She doesn't look like DEB who, from what I've seen of her she looks natural. CM looks like a waxwork Confused

But hey that is only my opinion, but its not a great look.
You always post so eloquently btw Smile

free skin care · Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:12 am

A while back on the Ageless thread I asked why LouLou's "after" picture on FE was the same as the one on her original Ageless forum and I remember the response I got!

I backed down a bit to calm things down, and I wondered too if people thought I was affiliated with FE (I'm not).

Why are some so hostile about being asked a perfectly reasonable question? This is supposed to be a friendly forum for impartial, balanced information.

free skin care · Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:36 am

aprile wrote:

Linda,

No vested interest in Facercise, but you're not being fair here. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but your opinion just doesn't make any sense.

April,thanks for joining the thread. Was wondering when Carol Maggio and her "awesome facial beauty mitt" would make an appearance. All we need now is Cynthia Rowland and her white gloves to stop by or even better... Santa Maria Runge to give us a bit of a shakedown.

Great info on Carol, I'm not familiar with her program, however, nothing you've said has 'disproved' Linda's opinion. I don't know for FACT but to my eye Carol looks 'pulled' in a way that neither Deb nor LL nor Eva Fraser nor SMR look. Perhaps Facercise results in the 'pulled' look? Great if you've had success with her program. I will check out your blog when I have more time and I am genuinely interested in her no lipo lipo -- although I know nothing about it.

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