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Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:34 pm  |
Fox you roar like a lion! Or at least like Helen Reddy! 
I love love love hearing from intelligent women who have a grasp on reality! Wrinkles are ok! A bit of a jowl won't make people hate you!
A very interesting article in the NYT recently (too lazy to dig around now, but if anyones interested I will) was actually about buying things to impress people, designer clothes, cars, anything really that we think will impress people. What was interesting, was that the research done on whether people really are impressed by status symbols and the like, found that for the most part you may have a fleeting effect on someone you meet, but the second it goes any deeper, even if you're driving a Ferrari and wearing Gucci, a dickhead is still a dickhead - sorry I'm Australian. It didn't exactly say that, but that was the point. The people that really love us and care about us are not the least bit moved by that sort of thing. Happy relationships depend much more upon our personalities, and ability to empathise with others, a caring nature. Superficial things are really only what WE THINK other people are impressed by. Some are, but not the ones that really live with us, and know who we are.
I think it's kind of the same with aging, everyone loves their grandma and would never love her any less 'cos she's wrinkly! People are meant to get a little wrinkly!! Frankly it's odd when they don't!
I think aiming for this level of completely smooth skin at age 60 is A implausible by one method alone and B not the best idea anyway.
I love to hear from women who are interested in keeping themselves attractive so they feel good about themselves and know they aren't just letting everything pack it in, but are realistic about their expectations and their goals.
It's not just about attacking a 'person', it's the whole ideology behind it. |
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Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:45 pm |
| KayS wrote: |
| Do you think any of her exercises are good?? |
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I do her (Carole Maggio) nose pump as well as a variation (based on my own misconstruence) of her lip rub thingmabob.
I have noticed that the area on the bridge of my nose(where I've painted an arrow) has filled in a bit so that the bone bump isn't quite so prominent.
I do her(CM) lip exercise as stated along with LouLou's great lip exercise and I had posted my results earlier:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=443639&highlight=#443639
I'm also doing all of LouLou's cheek exercises to help buff up under my eyes. |
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Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:56 pm |
pleiades (how do you say that???)
Tiny bump... nice nose!!! |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:43 am |
| You know when I was younger I worried so much more about how I looked, now finally at 60 I am comfortable in my own skin. I love being this age because I just don't worry about the things I used to. Of course I still want to look the best I can look but I do not feel like I want to look like any one else and I do not feel like I have to compete with anyone else. I am probably about ten to fifteen pounds over weight but at a certain age you have to choose between you butt and your face. If I lost that weight I would be to thin every where else. So I just feel screw it I have a little pouch on my tummy and a few rolls on my back if someone does not like it then they can just move on! |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:41 am |
KayS, I was deeply moved by your post and am sure others will be, too. I'm only a little over halfway to where you are, but boy can I tell you, I'm definitely hoping the worry about how I look decreases, and the confidence in being loved and loving (regardless of my exterior) increases exponentially with my age.  Reading your post affirmed for me it's possible (I always thought so, but you never can be sure!).
It doesn't mean we need to let everything go without putting in a reasonable effort, surely that's why a good portion of us are here, including me. But to expect to have perfectly smooth skin and a model's body into our 60's and beyond would be causing ourselves undue worry and pain.
There's so many great threads on EDS about the myriad of things we can do to keep our exterior and interior in as good a condition as possible, and so much to learn. I do the 'ageless if you dare' facial exercises because A. it was an inexpensive option to try facial ex. and B. I loved the idea of huge cheeks! (my disappointing experience over on the forum affirmed for me it's not really possible to stop or reverse aging in it's tracks with it, and the only people who really believe that are a bit kooky and extremely unpleasant to boot - still yet to see a pic of some of their apparently extraordinary results - most of the nasty ones are anonymous or have a tiny avatar that's impossible to tell anything from).
Someone told me in one of the many private messages that came through at the time (apparently people are too scared to post over there, and I don't blame them!), Loulou used or uses some Estriol cream and that's been very helpful in restoring the phenomenally more youthful skin tone you see in her B/A's- among other things of course- but I haven't yet had a chance to look into the subject further. Anyone know about this kind of thing?
Toby, is an avid facial exerciser who posts here. I've learned many great tips from her - easy eye solutions for eyebags! She looks like she's been able to condition her face well and keep realistic expectations about how much younger it makes her appear. She has great cheeks! So, I'll keep squeezing away for as long as I'm still enjoying it and hope for some results.
I'm certainly a believer in the facial massage side of many Facial Exercise programs. Having been an aesthetician, I saw for myself that people who had massage intense facials often had great skin tone that kept their skin healthy and appearing younger than some people in their age group that didn't, keeping in mind there are so many contributing factors. Women who prioritize regular facials often were mostly also aware of good diet, exercise and other healthy practices such as minimizing stress. Not to forget about good ol' genes, which can keep some people looking fresh for longer than others.
On the advice of people here, I bought a vaculifter suction massage device for my face from Nancy at NCN, and truly believe my skin has strengthened somewhat. I had some red clusters of broken capillaries under my eyes from a dermabrasion treatment gone wrong, and the skin seems to be thickening up there, with the redness diminishing. I found it similar to the 'patter' machine used in facials for lymphatic drainage, and follow the same pattern of massage with great results in reducing my puffy eyebags and face. I'm sure this will result in less permanent sagging of the skin around my eyes and jowls over time. Even though I've had puffy eyes since my youth, due to airborne allergies, and gluten (a more recent discovery) I'm glad I caught them in enough time to keep the skin from permanently bagging out. Although they still do a bit, so the Easy Eye Solutions takes care of the rest. Search for the thread on that, though as there's a learning curve with it.
All in all, I've found the debates over facial exercise to be interesting and helpful, just as I have the threads on topicals which are just as instrumental to keep the skin in great condition, along with things taken internally. My husband who is 15 years older than me is a great guinea-pig. He has lovely skin, but I've seen great results in firmness and wrinkles by encouraging his use of copper peptides and retin A, emu oil, and some Skin Actives products. He's not too keen on doing facial exercises as he found the B/A pics implausible and it turned him off. As you'll see mentioned here, vit c is a great vitamin to take along with MSM and hylauronic acid.
Thanks again KayS for your beautifully honest post, I now look forward to worrying less, and accepting myself more as I age - for age, I surely will!
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:13 am |
| I think facial exercise will help increase your cheek size depending on how much your individual cheek muscle can build it is empowering to me to be able to do that. I am going to be perfectly honest here. I spent alot of my twenties, thirties, forties with the thought,"If I was only prettier I would have gotten that job, if I only looked like Jaclyn Smith the world would be my oyster, and I had plastic surgery in my early thirties not trying to look like her or anybody else just to look better. I went just to get s small hump removed from my nose and then the doctor mentioned doing my eyes as I had sleepy bedroom eyes and he thought I would look better with a more open eyed look so one thing lead to another and I never really was satisfied. I have had no more plastic surgery in 30 years but to be fair I am sure I would not look as good as I do now if I had never had anything done. Now at 60 plastic surgery does not interest me at all as my main interest now is keeping healthy so I can enjoy the things in life I enjoy doing. I have had fillers as well in the past and they are only temporary fixes and very expensive. I no longer wish I looked like anyone else and I no longer feel like I have to be the prettiest, with age I have just "gotten over it" thank goodness!! Better late than never I would not go back to those days for anything! I do not check my face in the mirror everyday looking for changes but one day I will be putting on my makeup and just notice something is different better, or that a furrow that was there is gone now. I think if people obsess about it and constantly checking for big change they are missing the boat. Just do it like brushing your teeth everyday and forget about it, my lips are thinner now from working on filling out my mid face area and I just figure it must be working because my lip area is being pulled I figure it will work itself out or I will just stop working that area so much. At your age I probably would be freaking out over it. So take heart like a fine wine you will only get better with age |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:23 am |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
pleiades (how do you say that???)
Tiny bump... nice nose!!! |
Hey Claudia, thank you! It's pronounced Plea-a-deez. It's the Seven Sisters constellation.
Trigger, I think you should check out LouLou's thread for Moonstone's progress pictures if you're looking for some empirical proof. I think part of the problem with your perception of progress (while using her methodology) is that LouLou's program has only been available to the general public since, I believe, late last year. I, myself, have been on it for about 2 1/2 months. So any progress you see with the ladies (and I single out just those of whom were novices to facial exercises, myself included, as opposed to those with experience,) would most probably not be near it's potential at this point in the process. In conclusion, I don't think you can judge the total efficacy of her program at this juncture (beyond what you *see* in your own improvement, in others on their journey, or with LouLou's concrete personal progress~her account of which I take at face value...pardon the pun:) ) . I say, keep on using it if you think you've even had a small improvement, but don't, if you think it's causing changes you cannot live with.
Simple, really.
Personally, I will NEVER see the likes of cheeks like Loulou's, but I do have a similar face shape as Loli's (on flexeffect), so for me, I don't think it would be too idealistic to think I can attain something similar. |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:58 am |
| Pleiades... have you seen LOLI's most current picture... yowza! |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:36 pm |
Hi Trigger
| Quote: |
| He's not too keen on doing facial exercises as he found the B/A pics implausible and it turned him off |
Hopping to change you mind about the results of training.
I don't blame anyone not buying into the majority of B/A photos. most are BS. but please take another look at these B/A.
If you will notice her lips, what has changed here could not have been done by fillers – the smoothness goes all the way up to the nose and down under the bottom lip - across the chin and out to the cheeks. Most importantly, the fullness is not just in a given area, all the tissue is considerably fuller so it couldn’t have been done by fillers, unless they pumped her entire face with something. A full-out facelift would not have been able to lift out the lines around her mouth without actually widening the mouth somewhat. Her mouth is exactly the same. It is the fullness in the face that smacks at facialbuilding. If you look at her After photo you’ll notice the lines at each side of her lower cheeks, they are hardly visible in her Before photo if you look close you see them somewhat lower and almost hidden in the folding skin. This would prove she didn’t have a Chem. Peel. Peels can’t move lines - the lines has moved due to the filling out of the face. A facelift can move lines (pulling the skin back) but can’t add fullness, not without adding implants.
If you’re still not convinced, that’s ok too. I know with enough training you’ll soon become a believer
Before
AFTER: Notice a line that was exposed at each side of her lower cheeks.
This is Shelly on FE's B/A page (4 months training) |
_________________
In Training for FE Cert. @ www.flexeffect.com |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:30 pm |
| Claudia, where can I see Loli's picture? I went to flex effect web site and saw a LaLa and a Lori but no Loli. |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:03 pm |
OMG... I can't believe we don't have them on our before after page... the things you THINK you've done!!!
Here's the link to them within our forum. You will have to register (free) to see...
Edited to add: This link will only take you to a forum page... not the post. The Post labeled before and afters of real flexers is about 9 threads down. Loli is in there!!!
http://flexeffect.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=4136&page=
Loli is the FE trainer that designed the Cheek Bootcamp! She is insanely amazing! |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:28 pm |
| Loli is amazing. I thought LouLou was a part of cheek bootcamp. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:58 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Loli is amazing. I thought LouLou was a part of cheek bootcamp. |
From what I recall reading, Loli and Loulou collaborated on the cheek bootcamp as a fun project. Anyhoo ... those are absolutely fantastic photos of Loli, she is a very good advertisement for facial exercises and I think those pics should definitely be put on the Before/After page so everyone can admire them!
I want a smooth tight jawline like that ... don't think it will happen as my face shape is different ... but it definitely gives you an idea of what's possible with facial exercising, and I can at least try!
(I have lost my Flex Effect book somewhere and I'm going nuts trying to find it. Woe. Been wondering where it went for months now.) |
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48. Using 302/NCN/Skinactives products, grab-bag of facial exercises, occasional gadgets. |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:17 pm |
Can I just sneak in here and say this????
Not to take a thing away from Loli, as she's dear, an so helpful, but her 3/1 exercise is a near ringer for Cynthia Rowlands one for the cheeks..........insert your fingers in the mouth under the n/l fold, pull down and smile up towards the outer cheeks.
Just sayin'. |
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Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:23 pm |
Perhaps we can just go with the explanation by Loulou:
| otherloulou wrote: |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Moongoddess wrote...""i can see why she would want to disassociate but what ever the reason(s) she left it was JUST PLAIN SMART of her to not share her technique-she helped us with the FE excercises (devloped a cheek bootcamp w/ loli)"
I would just like to make it clear. Because I do believe in giving appropriate credit where it's due. Loli was the SOLE developer of BootCamp . She had worked with LouLou as a tester of the bootcamp. I'm sure LouLou would want to give Loli the appropriate credit as well.
Thanks... |
Hi Claudia
The bootcamp thing itself was never meant to be anything but a bit of fun. Loli and me decided to have a cheek month with high reps, and we used the high rep counts from a book called Gimnasia facial by Emilio Rotellar. I didn't have the book to begin with, and Loli lovingly typed out the repetitions we were to do until it arrived. Loli wouldn't object at sll to this, bootcamp just developed of its own accord, but it started as a conversation between me and Loli.
we wouldn't have posted our routine at all if other posters hadn't begged us day and night to do that.
But Loli did invent the three in one exercise that was at the heart of Bootcamp,and I tried to correct every single poster who gave me any credit and will continue to give Loli credit where people are mistaken! LL |
Keeping in mind that bootcamp consists of Loli's 3 in 1, and FE exercises.
I hadn't meant for this debate to be brought up again. Hopefully no one sees a reason to start some more mud slinging...
Linda... I would have to defer to Loli on your statement. I have always felt the 3 in 1 was in part combo of Top Furrow Advanced, and Cheek Raiser. With the combo targeting 3 muscles of the cheeks more than the caninus. |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:31 am |
| pleiades wrote: |
| KayS wrote: |
| Do you think any of her exercises are good?? |
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I do her (Carole Maggio) nose pump as well as a variation (based on my own misconstruence) of her lip rub thingmabob.
I have noticed that the area on the bridge of my nose(where I've painted an arrow) has filled in a bit so that the bone bump isn't quite so prominent.
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Pleiades, I'm so glad that you have good result with your lovely nose! How long does it take to do the nose pump exercise before you notice a difference at the bump? My BF has a similar bump on the nose and I guess he should try out the exercise as well!
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:01 am |
| Claudia, your link took me to RESPONSES to Loli's before/after but I never could find the actual pictures. |
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:38 am |
lindalou, yes I noticed that the exercises I that book were almost identical to loli's exercise 
Well, in the end who cares who invented what, as long as the exercises work!!! |
_________________
Busy mum who is trying find time!!! |
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:58 am |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
| Pleiades... have you seen LOLI's most current picture... yowza! |
No, I haven't!!! *rushes over to check it out* |
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:08 am |
| moonstone wrote: |
Pleiades, I'm so glad that you have good result with your lovely nose! How long does it take to do the nose pump exercise before you notice a difference at the bump? My BF has a similar bump on the nose and I guess he should try out the exercise as well!
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Thank you Moonstone! Honestly, the first thing I noticed, a few weeks into the exercise, was that it felt slimmer in that area. I believe within a couple months, I could really see a marked difference from the right side. A piece of fluff landed on my nose and you know that little cross-eyed thing we do looking at it, well there it was, or wasn't....the bump appeared to have gotten smaller.
So I figured it had to have been the result of the nose pump ex. The only thing I can assume is that the ex must be pushing up the cartilage to *fill* in the 'saddle' between the bone and the tip. Perhaps one of our esteemed ladies here can offer a legitimate physiological explanation as I have no clue.
Anywho, girl, get him to do it, it certainly isn't going to harm him and I'm willing to bet he will be very happy with his results.
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:36 am |
Hi Pleiades, I'm also pumping away Hoping to shorten my somewhat long snout which I'm sure is getting longer by the year AND I'd love to soften the look of the bump on my nose. I've no idea where the bump came from either.
I think I must have been fighting in my sleep |
_________________
Busy mum who is trying find time!!! |
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Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:13 am |
| claraboo wrote: |
Hi Pleiades, I'm also pumping away Hoping to shorten my somewhat long snout which I'm sure is getting longer by the year AND I'd love to soften the look of the bump on my nose. I've no idea where the bump came from either.
I think I must have been fighting in my sleep |
LOL, I've gone a few rounds with my pillows, too I bet you're making great progress, Claraboo (love you nic, btw) |
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:12 am |
I'll take a guess that the reason facial exercises are so controversial is that there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence to back up the efficacy of the practice.
Topicals are researched. The methodology of various devices can be researched...
but FE? apparently not - and photos can be so deceiving.
It's more than just an investment of time and/or money. It's an investment of hope.
BF
PS/ I read the nasty thread. Human beings can be so bizarre at times, particularly with respect to groupthink. |
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:32 am |
Barefoot, you are right. There hasn't been an indepth scientific study on this. It would cost too much. Who would fund it? Not the companies making bank selling hope in a jar... (not to infringe on a "philosophy" name or anything.) I know that we've done small "studies"... The kind that offer results that warrant a big study.
It can be very hard to trust photos. Have they been alterted... etc. And professional photographers have offered opinions on both sides of the coin. The pictures are too "perfect"... so they are unbelievable. The pictures are crappy.... why not professional? So the pictures are unbelievable...
Just like purchasing a cream, you have to hope it works. And even if it works great for someone else it may not work great for another person. Even FDA approved medications have the same issue. There have to be at least 5 different thyroid meds. All approved, and proven to work. My God, how many birth control, proven and approved pills and methods are there? And some people can't use any of them without crazy insane side effects.
So, with regard to exercises, creams, and gadgets. Even when there is any sort of
"scientific study".... chances are they might not work as an ideal from one person to the next. And I've yet to actually see a scientific report written in a statistically significant fashion. Those aren't advertised.
Or hey, a person just may not like doing it. Plenty of people would rather get a tummy tuck, than take one more step into a gym. I personally HATE working out in a gym. It's boring. I'd rather do Pilates, Yoga, ballet, Kettlenetics... my things... probably not anothers. Heck some people can't even do a proper plie. Doesn't mean it doesn't work... but probably not for them...
Anyhow, I know we've been in business for a LONG time. We haven't "reformulated" much, 'cause we haven't had to. There's nothing toxic about touching your face... and science will NEVER prove you can get cancer, or develop infertility issues for doing so. I personally, think it's worth a try... Try any program. There are plenty in a wide variety of styles and price ranges. Surely the price of 2 cups of starbucks coffees are worth a shot. And hey, you'll always have your hands, you won't be washing yet another cream down the drain. And a person can always sell their DVD and books of ANY program on e-bay.
It may be an investment. But it's one that a person can generally recoup if not on their face, even inpart by reselling it or trading for something else. |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:00 am |
| Claudia - I give you a lot of credit posting on this forum with all of the negativity. I just don't get it, and can't hold my tongue. I thought the forum was created so that women could actually learn about natural alternatives to invasive procedures that actually work!! Instead, there's negativity and skepticism, which to me is so very unfortunate. Yes, it is annoying that we are often times fooled by celebs who claim their enduring beauty is 100% natural. Only to find out via the media - they've had tons of work done. But, I would think this exchange of information needn't get so nasty. After all, we are all women seeking the same thing ~ something that isn't too expensive, is non-invasive, portable, has no risks and actually works. For those of you who don't believe the dry brushing works ~ jump over to the No, Lipo Lipo thread to see the success the women over there are having performing daily dry brushing on the body and the face. Especially Vangirl who likes to poke fun at the arrival of the "amazing facial beauty mitt" & Cynthia Roland's white gloves. Remember ladies ~ negativity breeds negativity. If you truly want to achieve your personal beauty goals - whatever program you choose, you must be diligent & consistent & believe! Like Claudia said ~ the reason there haven't been studies done on facial exercise program efficacy is there's no money in it for anyone. The pharmaceutical companies didn't perform any studies on the efficacy of natural hormones either ~ want to know why? Because it would put them out of business selling all of their horse pee HRT. There is no way to patent nature. Same principle applies here with facial exercise programs. In the end, it doesn't really matter if you think Carole Maggio or Cynthia Roland have had work done or not. What matters is that you have natural alternatives that are completely risk free and don't cost you a fortune. Oprah Winfrey should take note of this ~ she's featured shows on the botox, fillers and the famous Lunch Time Facelift, aka The Thread lift. There's now a class action suit brewing by women who've had those threads migrate on their faces. So, why not give the facial exercise gurus more credit? You don't need to break the bank to afford facial exercise dvds, and the only follow-up you need is your persistency and determination to succeed. Aprile |
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