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Dermarolling and LED's

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Tonia
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Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:57 pm      Reply with quote
I started this new thread so we can discuss the problems and benefits of combining dermarolling and LED's. If we're not careful, they can contradict each other. The dermaroller requires inflammation to create new collagen and the LED is a powerful anti-inflammatory. So, here are my questions:

1) How long do we need to wait after a long needle roll to use the LED?
2) How often can we use the LED after that without interfering with collagen production?
3) Does anyone combine the short needles and LED's? If so, what procedure do you use and what kind of results have you seen from it?

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Keliu
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Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:11 am      Reply with quote
I've tried researching this in the past and haven't come up with any definitive information. No-one, to my knowledge, has done a study on using both of these treatments at the same time. I've read Dr. Fernandes' theory on the necessity of inflammation in relation to the wound healing cascade and given what we know, it would seem futile to then use a device to nullify the inflammation.

However, given the supposed benefits of LEDs in terms of producing collagen and elastin, how do we know that there might not be some kind of synergistic benefit that takes place where the light simply speeds up the whole wounding and healing process and adds to the capacity of the body to make more collagen and elastin. There are a number of clinics who offer LED treatments after Dermarolling but I've yet to find out their reasoning behind this.

So in answer to your questions, my responses would be:

1) It would seem prudent to wait until all visible inflammation had gone before doing an LED treatment - I suppose this could vary between individuals.

2) If an LED device is supposed to contribute to the formation of collagen and elastin how do we know it's interfering with collagen production following Dermarolling after the initial inflammation phase has finished?

3) I do combine an LED treatment with rolling for product penetration with a 0.25mm roller. First I roll, then I bathe the skin with fresh Green Tea, then I apply my other serums, then I use the LED. I do so much to my skin, I'm not prepared to say that I see anything special from this procedure - but it makes me feel good!

As I've said so many times before, I believe we're all just guinea-pigs with all of this. I guess it's going to be the 30 year olds who in another 30 years (when they're my age) can assess their skin and compare it with other people the same age who have not done these types of treatments and hopefully see that they have reaped the benefits.

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breezy42
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Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:24 am      Reply with quote
What a great idea for a thread, Tonia! I'm really interested in this, and I love both the LED and dermaroller. Keliu, your finding is very interesting, and I'd love to know why doctors would use an LED right after a deep dermarolling session. It would seem to interfere with the inflammation process and hence the formation of collagen Question I think we're probably safe to use the LED right after the .25mm or .5mm, since those don't go deep enough to penetrate the dermis anyway. I really have to get back on top of rolling with the .25mm and using my LED. I've been slacking off for the last couple of weeks.
Tonia
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:17 pm      Reply with quote
I don't understand why a Dr. would use the LED after a rolling session. That just doesn't make sense to me.

I guess my big question is, how long does the micro-inflammation stage last? I have never read that anywhere. Right now, I'm waiting one week after a 1mm roll to use the LED. Then, I'm only using it 3 times per week. I am going on the assumption that there is a synergistic effect after the initial inflammation wears off so I am combining the two. I don't think micro-inflammation is the same as the inflammation you can see. I don't think it's the red and puffies that we have the first 24 hours after a big roll. I think it's a low-grade inflammation that lasts longer than that.

I like to use the LED in conjunction with the .25 roller. I roll with the .25, then apply green tea every five minutes for 20 minutes, then use the LED. The whole process is ridiculously time consuming, so I don't get to do that very often.

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Tonia
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:21 pm      Reply with quote
As far as results are concerned, I have made too many changes in my skincare routine at one time to know what is giving me the results. I do know that for about 2-3 days after the .25 roll with the green tea and LED, my skin is glowing. Some may say that's inflammation but I doubt it. The green tea and the LED are anti-inflammatories. Whatever it is, I like enough to keep it going.

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breezy42
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:48 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Tonia, I read somewhere on that very long dermaroller thread that you should use anything anti-inflammatory for one week. So I would say that you're safe to use the LED with the longer rollers after a week. I'm really interested in using the LED and the .25mm:)
Tonia
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
Oh, I think it's great to use the LED with the small rollers. The temporary inflammation is good with the longer rollers because we don't use them frequently. The short needles are used several times a week. continuous inflammation isn't good for your skin. The LED can eliminate the inflammation and give all the benefits of the LED.

I sent an email to Owndoc asking if they know how long the micro-inflammation lasts. I'll post the response if I get one.

Breezy, I read that on the long thread too but I thought that was someone's opinion. It's been a while since I read that whole thread. Do you remember?

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sister sweets
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Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:06 pm      Reply with quote
Tonia wrote:
As far as results are concerned, I have made too many changes in my skincare routine at one time to know what is giving me the results. I do know that for about 2-3 days after the .25 roll with the green tea and LED, my skin is glowing. Some may say that's inflammation but I doubt it. The green tea and the LED are anti-inflammatories. Whatever it is, I like enough to keep it going.


I agree with this.

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Tonia
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:37 am      Reply with quote
Here is Sarah's response. Keliu's suggestion was correct. The inflammation stage is the obvious red and swollen skin and not a deeper micro-inflammation that we can't see. So, once the initial irritation is gone, we can go ahead and use the LED's. Yay!

http://forum.owndoc.com/showthread.php?99-How-long-does-the-inflammation-stage-lasts-after-rolling-with-long-needles&p=119

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