Plumping a gaunt face
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free skin care · Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:19 pm

margarett wrote:

maheen1 wrote:

my aunt,,,was diagnosed with coronary artery disease 20 yeARS Ago,,,she was ordinary looknig,,,her skin was getting a bit saggy since she was in her mid 50"s,,,,she went thru a by pass and after that the doctor adivsed her to change her diet coompletely and make it healthy...Since then,,,,all she eats is one slice of bread,,,vegetables ,raw,cooked,,salad,,,fruits,,,,salmon(she eats salmon one to 2 times a day,,,boil it with bones,drink its soup and then eat the flesh)....Now seriously,,no lying,,,no exaggerations...i saw her 20 years since she started this diet,,,her face glows now,,,it looks as if she has got a face lift done,,,but she has not,,,her skin has no single wrinkle,,,she is now in her late 70"s and she looks more beautiful(atleast her skin) and she looks younger than when she was in her 50"s....i know she has not got anything done to her face,,,it is the helathy diet,,,butfor this type of change,,,u have to be persistent for years before u see this...\this is my opinoin...her face doesnt look gaunt,,,it is fresh and plump,,,but all in a natural way...

That sounds great, but eating salmon could carry the risk of too much mercury? or is it only with tuna?

What if I take more of salmon/fish/ oil (Omega 3) in supplements? I personally prefer the pill than a fish... But it should be the same, shouldn't it?

free skin care · Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:25 pm

maheen1 wrote:

Dear Toby and ELLa stella.....i am 30 right now....my face has always been thinnnnnot in a bad way,,,but still i dont like it ,,,when i lsoe weight,,it get the gaunt look on it,,,,it was the same way when i was 25....
Plz can u tell me about these ageless and flex exercises..what r these about...i would love to do them if they will reall give my face a plump appearance..thanks Smile

Dear maheen1, the topics of Ageless and FlexEffex are always the ones that are hot and active on the first page in the "Do it Yourself" section of the EDS.

But here is the link to "Ageless If You Dare" thread http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31539

and check about FlexEffex in DIY section, there is an active discussion about new edition of the book and DVD. Good luck.

free skin care · Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:25 pm

I had a very gaunt face...in comparison to Miranda (who is absolutely gorgeous, btw!), Miranda's looks plump!

Just to add another voice to the dialogue, the thing that was worked best for me is facial exercise, followed by massage.

Through mostly exercise, I've rebuilt a significant amount of tissue in my upper face and am now mostly in maintenance mode for my upper cheeks, but am still working on my lower cheeks, which have been much more of a struggle, in large part due to genetics (my mom's side of the family has the tendency to have a gaunt lower face look at normal weight). I've tried six different facial exercise programs, and my favorite one for rebuilding all six muscles of the cheeks is FlexEffect. Hands down, I get the best contractions from their exercises and the most build. Ageless is a distant second for me. Currently, I approach facial exercises like I do when I do serious bodybuilding in order to build the most muscle. That is, I train them once every three days, doing 3-6 sets of 10-15 reps of very high resistance (as close to failure as possible), and I focus on the negative or extension part of the exercise by pulling hard on the muscle to return it to its extended state, rather than letting the muscle simply relax back into the extended position. (Btw, the negative part of a contraction is the most important phase for muscle building, not the positive/contraction phase.) I'm usually sore the next day, but I almost always don't train for another 72 hours. Those who are into bodybuilding will recognize this as about an identical training approach to what serious bodybuilders do Smile

Anyhow, I've been getting much faster gains from this rather than doing one set of 10 reps every day. And my boyfriend can also see my gains are coming a lot faster with this sort of approach, rather than doing one set but training every day.

Other things to consider are

* Massage to beef up the tissue and increase circulation and blood flow

* Diet: Are you getting enough calories, carbs, protein, etc., because if not, that could be holding you back?

* Hydration: Water and electrolytes are equally important here and we need lots of both. Lots of water without electrolytes means your body won't be able to retain the fluid as well and your kidneys will excrete it. I've personally found that the best hydrators are fruits, vegetables, and green smoothies. Lots of water helps, but won't do it all. I suspect that's why Toby and some others are getting great results with facial fullness from drinking smoothies.

* Negative/suction pressure on the face not only increases circulation and blood flow, but may also promote the growth of facial tissue through mechanical tension. In fact, this approach is used by tissue reconstruction specialists in clinical settings. I think I recall that Zenity said that she was experimenting with this and it really helped her fill out her face.

Okay, these are several ideas of what to try. HTH Smile

free skin care · Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:00 pm

Thanks cm for a great & informative post! Although I've been getting great results from doing FE & Ageless (every other day), I think I will try negative resistance & see how that affects everything.

free skin care · Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:18 pm

JLM wrote:

Thanks cm for a great & informative post! Although I've been getting great results from doing FE & Ageless (every other day), I think I will try negative resistance & see how that affects everything.

Ya, i agree. 1 question though, what exactly is negative/suction pressure - is that like the pressure reps?

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:11 am

What a brilliant and concise post from CM (and thank you for comment).
As someone who has trained with weights for 19 years, I agree with everything you're saying about building muscles. And I'm very happy for you to be having such noticeable results.
I had a number of one-to-one sessions with the facial exerciser Eva Fraser and she always said the exercise will be less effective unless you slowly release the muscles.

The hydration part is something new to me; I didn't realise fruit and veg were so important in combination with the water (although I do drink water with lemon juice for alkalising reasons).

The suction part: are you referring to cupping/vaculift?

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 6:17 am

Miranda, You look great, not gaunt at all. Healthy! Very Happy

At first blush when scanning the thread I thought that was a pic of 29 yr old mowgli? I thought to myself at 29, she looks great. I'm sure you do mowgli Wink

. But went back and found out it was 41 Miranda. You look great!

I think one's diet and lifestyle are key to staying young looking. Disposition and personality indirectly have something to do with looks too. Even people who have always maintained a low body weight do not necessarily have to become gaunt. Those with empty diets will show a gaunt, unhealthy look sooner as well as a lot of other things. People who are overweight will start to sag giving a different kind of aging-look.

Our skin naturally thins as we age, that is why many use CPs and Retin-A and/or Vit C to help build new collagen for a more youthful, healthy-look. Many do facial exercise too.

When in doubt eat your fruits and veggies everyday!

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:04 am

I would love a more detailed explanation/description of negative contractions in facial exercising. I get the theory, but not the implementation.

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:30 am

Dear CM,

Thank you for such a good post. I totally agree with the schedule, it does work for me too. I experimented with different schedules and now I realized that the time when I was on such as you describe, I had most of the result and fast. Lately, I have been doing the exercises and Tanaka massage almost everyday but not that intensively, and it was good but kinda not the same as before. Now, i think, I know why.

Do you do massage on the same day as the exercises or on the days when you are resting?

Do you do anything else for the face on the days when you are resting (like using other devices etc? except topicals)

free skin care · Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:16 am

ella-stella wrote:

margarett wrote:

maheen1 wrote:

my aunt,,,was diagnosed with coronary artery disease 20 yeARS Ago,,,she was ordinary looknig,,,her skin was getting a bit saggy since she was in her mid 50"s,,,,she went thru a by pass and after that the doctor adivsed her to change her diet coompletely and make it healthy...Since then,,,,all she eats is one slice of bread,,,vegetables ,raw,cooked,,salad,,,fruits,,,,salmon(she eats salmon one to 2 times a day,,,boil it with bones,drink its soup and then eat the flesh)....Now seriously,,no lying,,,no exaggerations...i saw her 20 years since she started this diet,,,her face glows now,,,it looks as if she has got a face lift done,,,but she has not,,,her skin has no single wrinkle,,,she is now in her late 70"s and she looks more beautiful(atleast her skin) and she looks younger than when she was in her 50"s....i know she has not got anything done to her face,,,it is the helathy diet,,,butfor this type of change,,,u have to be persistent for years before u see this...\this is my opinoin...her face doesnt look gaunt,,,it is fresh and plump,,,but all in a natural way...

That sounds great, but eating salmon could carry the risk of too much mercury? or is it only with tuna?

What if I take more of salmon/fish/ oil (Omega 3) in supplements? I personally prefer the pill than a fish... But it should be the same, shouldn't it?

I think you can take only so much of Omegas in capsules. I've heard about eating salmon and relation to good skin, but again, I've heard too much of any fish carry the consequences of mercury poison. It also depends the kind of water where the fish are swimming, etc. But yeah, salmon caps is not a bad idea.

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:44 am

moongoddess wrote:

JLM wrote:

Thanks cm for a great & informative post! Although I've been getting great results from doing FE & Ageless (every other day), I think I will try negative resistance & see how that affects everything.

Ya, i agree. 1 question though, what exactly is negative/suction pressure - is that like the pressure reps?

Hey Moongoddess! Negative pressure would be anything with a suctioning-type effect, like the vaculifter. If I recall correctly, I think Zenity said that she was using cupping massage on the hollows of her cheeks and that helped. And it is known that suction/negative pressure can help build tissue.

By contrast, the pressure reps in FlexEffect are a form of positive pressure.

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:53 am

Hermosa wrote:

I would love a more detailed explanation/description of negative contractions in facial exercising. I get the theory, but not the implementation.

I think the main thing is to continue pulling hard on the muscle as you gradually relax the muscle *slowly* from the fully contracted position, rather than just letting the muscle go limp to return it to the starting position.

I try to take this one step further, and to try to actually not release the muscle contraction at all but rather to pull even harder on the muscle to return it to the relaxed position. In other words, I return it to the relaxed position by pulling harder on the muscle than it can withstand while the muscle is still trying to contract...so it loses the tug-of-war, if that makes sense.

(FlexEffect has a different approach, even slightly more intense than this, that should really increase build, but it's based on this same idea.)

HTH Smile

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:06 am

ella-stella wrote:

Dear CM,

Thank you for such a good post. I totally agree with the schedule, it does work for me too. I experimented with different schedules and now I realized that the time when I was on such as you describe, I had most of the result and fast. Lately, I have been doing the exercises and Tanaka massage almost everyday but not that intensively, and it was good but kinda not the same as before. Now, i think, I know why.

Yes, I suspect that many people who need significantly more fullness in their faces would benefit from training harder, but less frequently. I think this was one of the reasons Loulou of Ageless created her own program: because she thought people should train harder but a little less often. Though I think some people (like myself for the cheeks) would benefit from training even harder than Loulou suggests and resting even longer--basically just taking the standard bodybuilding approach. (Of course, newbies shouldn't attempt any intense exercising until they train for a few months to get the basics down and to prevent them from overworking their muscles.) Just my 2 cents, in case it helps anyone who hasn't achieved the fullness they want yet Smile

ella-stella wrote:

Do you do massage on the same day as the exercises or on the days when you are resting?

I like to mix things up and to experiment. These days, I massage for 3-5 minutes a day on my training days, and one day a week (the day I don't do any training), I massage for 20 minutes. So I average 20 minutes total a day of facial exercise + massage. I don't know what's optimal regarding massage, and haven't not experimented really with this yet, so what I do right now massage-wise is just determined by my time availability, rather than results.

ella-stella wrote:

Do you do anything else for the face on the days when you are resting (like using other devices etc? except topicals)

I'm a total newbie when it comes to devices and topicals Smile

, though I'd definitely like to get into more devices eventually. But I'm pretty bare-bones right now, just doing some oils/natural skincare, exfoliation, massage, and hot/cold therapy...in part, because I'm still a newbie in some of this stuff and in part for budget reasons right now.

HTH Smile

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:39 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure would be anything with a suctioning-type effect, like the vaculifter. If I recall correctly, I think Zenity said that she was using cupping massage on the hollows of her cheeks and that helped. And it is known that suction/negative pressure can help build tissue.

Just to mention, I've been using a vaculifter daily for almost 6 months and it hasn't made a difference to my hollows. However, it's a great device for general conditioning of the skin (especially when used with a good oil).

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:30 pm

This is Miranda wrote:

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure would be anything with a suctioning-type effect, like the vaculifter. If I recall correctly, I think Zenity said that she was using cupping massage on the hollows of her cheeks and that helped. And it is known that suction/negative pressure can help build tissue.

Just to mention, I've been using a vaculifter daily for almost 6 months and it hasn't made a difference to my hollows. However, it's a great device for general conditioning of the skin (especially when used with a good oil).

Whoops! I should have been more clear: I doubt the vaculifter specifically would significantly improve hollows. Rather, based on what I've read, you'd probably need something with stronger suction and you'd need to apply it for much longer daily, and it would probably take several months to see results. Similar to those breast suction devices that are supposed to increase your breast size if you wear it overnight for several months, if anyone is familiar with those Smile

Maybe Zenity, if she's around, can weigh in on what specifically she did regarding cupping, which is also another name for it.

But I would think that building muscle in the hollows would be more effective than suction/negative pressure.

For me personally, in eliminating the gauntness in my upper face, massage alone, while it definitely thickened my facial tissue was not enough. It was definitely the build up of muscle and all the associated tissue through facial exercises that did it. Just speaking to my personal experience Smile

Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:45 pm

Take a look at McKenzie Philips (sp) new $50K make-over. She's still thin but her face is now very plump. Not sure exactly what she had done. I think resty, or other facial filler, and maybe lasers...can't post links so just google her. She looks really good and youthful now that she no longer has that sunkeness.

free skin care · Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:44 pm

cm5597 wrote:

Hey Moongoddess! Negative pressure would be anything with a suctioning-type effect, like the vaculifter. If I recall correctly, I think Zenity said that she was using cupping massage on the hollows of her cheeks and that helped. And it is known that suction/negative pressure can help build tissue.

By contrast, the pressure reps in FlexEffect are a form of positive pressure.

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

Hi CM
Thanks for the reply. Very helpful - - i finally got a chance to look at my new FE book where deb explains this -- also, thanks for replying to everyone else, i'm learning something in each of your responses.
-m

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:22 am

CM

I got to ask your opinion, do you think Deb and the others who recommend working out daily are wrong to make that suggestion then? Why do they do make that suggestion - as from what you say, its clearly a mistake if we're wanting to get stronger muscles and build. I might give that a go with the reps, but just want to check. When you say you do 10-15 reps, what count do you use and am I correct in that you do 10/15 reps, and thats one set that you do 3-6 times? I wish they explain why they recommend 10 reps at a 6 count, as with what your saying here, Maybe we need to get Deb's opinion on this - as I'd love to know the reasoning behind that suggestion, and from what your saying it sounds like they are going to do more harm than good working out daily (and if it gives faster gains so much the better in my opinion).

Also when you say you focus on the negative or extension part of the exercise, I'm confused. Do you mean where they used to say stretch it first, and then contract, when your done with the contraction you continue pulling. I thought the negatives from the new book were simply the opposite, where you contract and then by pulling try to uncontract with the force of your hands - or did I completely misunderstand that? How do you know the negative part of the contraction is most important phase for the muscle building - and why haven't Deb/the trainers spoken more about this I wonder?

When you say water and diet, that pretty much seemed to be their answer to any problem in the old days, but how do you get electrolytes into your water?

Theresa

cm5597 wrote:

I had a very gaunt face...in comparison to Miranda (who is absolutely gorgeous, btw!), Miranda's looks plump!

Just to add another voice to the dialogue, the thing that was worked best for me is facial exercise, followed by massage.

Through mostly exercise, I've rebuilt a significant amount of tissue in my upper face and am now mostly in maintenance mode for my upper cheeks, but am still working on my lower cheeks, which have been much more of a struggle, in large part due to genetics (my mom's side of the family has the tendency to have a gaunt lower face look at normal weight). I've tried six different facial exercise programs, and my favorite one for rebuilding all six muscles of the cheeks is FlexEffect. Hands down, I get the best contractions from their exercises and the most build. Ageless is a distant second for me. Currently, I approach facial exercises like I do when I do serious bodybuilding in order to build the most muscle. That is, I train them once every three days, doing 3-6 sets of 10-15 reps of very high resistance (as close to failure as possible), and I focus on the negative or extension part of the exercise by pulling hard on the muscle to return it to its extended state, rather than letting the muscle simply relax back into the extended position. (Btw, the negative part of a contraction is the most important phase for muscle building, not the positive/contraction phase.) I'm usually sore the next day, but I almost always don't train for another 72 hours. Those who are into bodybuilding will recognize this as about an identical training approach to what serious bodybuilders do Smile

Anyhow, I've been getting much faster gains from this rather than doing one set of 10 reps every day. And my boyfriend can also see my gains are coming a lot faster with this sort of approach, rather than doing one set but training every day.

Other things to consider are

* Massage to beef up the tissue and increase circulation and blood flow

* Diet: Are you getting enough calories, carbs, protein, etc., because if not, that could be holding you back?

* Hydration: Water and electrolytes are equally important here and we need lots of both. Lots of water without electrolytes means your body won't be able to retain the fluid as well and your kidneys will excrete it. I've personally found that the best hydrators are fruits, vegetables, and green smoothies. Lots of water helps, but won't do it all. I suspect that's why Toby and some others are getting great results with facial fullness from drinking smoothies.

* Negative/suction pressure on the face not only increases circulation and blood flow, but may also promote the growth of facial tissue through mechanical tension. In fact, this approach is used by tissue reconstruction specialists in clinical settings. I think I recall that Zenity said that she was experimenting with this and it really helped her fill out her face.

Okay, these are several ideas of what to try. HTH Smile

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:27 am

I too had some sessions with Eva, but there are some differences that I don't understand and maybe you might know. With Eva's you go up in stages with the muscle contractions, but in FlexEffect you seem to go all out straight into as much of a contraction as you can. I wonder how they know if its more effective doing the increases/releases slowly compared with going straight there/out? There must be a reason behind it. When I had my first session with Eva, we used to do a kind of exercise where you might smile a little, and wait, then smile a little more, and wait, then smile a little more, so you kind of went up to 10 movements with the smile, and then did a count of 30, then released it little by little just as you say. Thats definitely going to add an element to the FlexEffect workout that I might try.

Problem I noticed was that my face loved the workout in the beginning, and did respond straight away but then after a while it seemed to stop working and I got told to simply reduce the amount of workouts I was doing so instead of working out daily - to work out twice a week - which is why CM's post really interests me with what she does as that sounds similar to the same thing Eva said to me and I'm wondering if there is a benefit to working out daily (or perhaps more benefit to not doing so).

This is Miranda wrote:

I had a number of one-to-one sessions with the facial exerciser Eva Fraser and she always said the exercise will be less effective unless you slowly release the muscles.

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:28 am

So with Ageless does this mean that the exercises there focus on negative pressure and FE favours positive pressure more. Thats interesting. Maybe we need to combine both positive/negative to get better workouts.

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:24 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

CM

I got to ask your opinion, do you think Deb and the others who recommend working out daily are wrong to make that suggestion then? Why do they do make that suggestion - as from what you say, its clearly a mistake if we're wanting to get stronger muscles and build. I might give that a go with the reps, but just want to check.

I think training is an individual thing and different people will need different approaches, and even the same people will want to mix up their training frequency (e.g., periodization). Just like in body exercises, sometimes you want to train every day, sometimes you want to train every other day, and sometimes for some muscles you might want to train them very hard but only every four days. It all depends on your goals for that muscle group, your genetics, your recuperation time, your current ability, etc.

In the FlexEffect program, beginners are clearly advised to train every day. I think this is great advice to follow for the first 6 months or longer, and the reason why is in the beginning your activating dormant muscle fibers and increasing strength and muscle recuperation time, plus people are starting to become aware of things like how their natural strengths and weakness affect their facial symmetry, and so on. So it makes sense to focus higher reps, lower weight, and higher training frequency in order to gain control of the muscle, slowly activating more and more fibers and preparing the muscle for increasingly intense workouts.

However, in the FlexEffect program, it is a little more unclear what intermediates should do training-wise. In a majority of cases, I've heard that intermediates should train every day, but in some cases, I have heard that it's very individual. In the second edition, the intermediate trainer is still advised to train every day, so I don't know whether FlexEffect's view on this has changed.

My personal opinion is yes, that the intermediate and advanced exerciser should not automatically just train every day, but should consider their goals for each muscle group, the rate at which they make gains in muscle size for each muscle, and their recovery time. For example, for me, there are some muscles I have trained every day, some I train every other day, and some I train every third day. Right now, I'm currently experimenting with training every muscle either every 2 or 3 days, because I'd rather work harder and rest longer than train more often.

So yes, I am a little surprised that the relation between the combination of training frequency & intensity on one hand with muscle build on the other hand doesn't get a little more attention in FlexEffect, as this important issue is more well-known in the bodybuilding community than the importance of the eccentric/negative phase of the contractions. But other than training frequency (and the automatically related issue of training volume), everything else FlexEffect does is completely inline with everything I know from bodybuilding.

Here is an awesome introductory article on training frequency, even covering differences between the beginners' and the advanced approaches (p. 3 covers sets, rep, and training frequency recommendations for beginners and the advanced):
* http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_4_23/ai_n13790127/
This matches my experience that most serious bodybuilders tend to train a muscle approximately once every 3 days (though sometimes a little less).

TheresaMary wrote:

When you say you do 10-15 reps, what count do you use and am I correct in that you do 10/15 reps, and thats one set that you do 3-6 times?

Usually, for the cheeks, it takes me about 3-4 seconds to complete a rep, and about 2-3 seconds for other facial muscles. I go most slowly on the eccentric/negative/extension part of the rep.

Currently (since I like to mix things up), for most muscles, I do 1-2 sets of 10-15 reps every other days. However, for a few of my cheek muscles, I train them only twice a week, and do 3-6 sets with 10-15 reps per set. I try to work intuitively. If I feel that I've really exhausted a muscle already and had a good workout, then I will do fewer sets. Right now, I'm "going for broke" with a few of my cheek muscles, so I'm training them hard enough for them to be sore for 1-2 days after I work them out. However, having done weight training for several years, I'm very in touch with my recovery time, so know what is overtraining and how to avoid it. I never hesitate to take extra time off to recover. So if you want to try out working out out harder but resting longer, I'd recommend slowly experimenting with this, rather than jumping in. I wouldn't want anyone to do too much too soon and not get the results they want.

TheresaMary wrote:

I wish they explain why they recommend 10 reps at a 6 count, as with what your saying here,

On the DVD, I think "6 counts" is equivalent to 3 seconds.

TheresaMary wrote:

Maybe we need to get Deb's opinion on this - as I'd love to know the reasoning behind that suggestion, and from what your saying it sounds like they are going to do more harm than good working out daily (and if it gives faster gains so much the better in my opinion).

No, no harm at all if you are doing only one set of 10 reps (unless you have issues with your recovery time). Rather, it is probably not enough for some people to get the gains they want in certain muscles. For me, training every day or every other day was enough for most of my muscles, but in a few areas that were particularly lacking in fullness, it wasn't even close to what they needed to really grow. To give an example, I was able to build enough muscle for my likes in my caput infra-orbitale muscle training every day. However, not for zygomaticus muscles that need a lot more build; I actually find I need to take an even more aggressive body-building type approach to them by training super-hard and resting a couple of days.

TheresaMary wrote:

Also when you say you focus on the negative or extension part of the exercise, I'm confused. Do you mean where they used to say stretch it first, and then contract, when your done with the contraction you continue pulling.

I mean that when I elongate the muscle from the fully contracted position, I elongate the muscle slowly and pull even harder on it as I elongate it. The analogy would be in a bicep curl, once you have curled the muscle fully, you would lower it slowly and, if you could, even increase the resistance on the muscle as you lower the weight. Does this help?

TheresaMary wrote:

I thought the negatives from the new book were simply the opposite, where you contract and then by pulling try to uncontract with the force of your hands - or did I completely misunderstand that?

TheresaMary wrote:

How do you know the negative part of the contraction is most important phase for the muscle building - and why haven't Deb/the trainers spoken more about this I wonder?

Oh gosh, I can't cite you an exact source of where I learned this, but I did know about it 15 years ago, when I had a regular subscription to "Muscle & Fitness" magazine. I'm pretty sure that's how I first heard about this. I think most very competitive body-builders know this, but at the next tier down and below, it's not as well-known as it should be. Many people who do weightlift seriously do not necessarily know this.

The importance of negatives in training though is definitely included in this 3rd edition of FlexEffect.

TheresaMary wrote:

When you say water and diet, that pretty much seemed to be their answer to any problem in the old days, but how do you get electrolytes into your water?

You can buy an electrolyte-enhanced sports drink (not usually recommended), drink fresh juice and/or smoothies, or eat fruits and veggies. Some people add sea salt (which is really mostly sodium + chloride) or other electrolyte powders to their waters, too.

HTH Smile

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:32 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

I too had some sessions with Eva, but there are some differences that I don't understand and maybe you might know. With Eva's you go up in stages with the muscle contractions, but in FlexEffect you seem to go all out straight into as much of a contraction as you can. I wonder how they know if its more effective doing the increases/releases slowly compared with going straight there/out? There must be a reason behind it. When I had my first session with Eva, we used to do a kind of exercise where you might smile a little, and wait, then smile a little more, and wait, then smile a little more, so you kind of went up to 10 movements with the smile, and then did a count of 30, then released it little by little just as you say. Thats definitely going to add an element to the FlexEffect workout that I might try.

I have definitely heard and done things like this from time to time with leg training. I don't know very much about "partial reps" or "phase training"

This is Miranda wrote:

I had a number of one-to-one sessions with the facial exerciser Eva Fraser and she always said the exercise will be less effective unless you slowly release the muscles.

Yes, that's definitely true!

TheresaMary wrote:

So with Ageless does this mean that the exercises there focus on negative pressure and FE favours positive pressure more. Thats interesting. Maybe we need to combine both positive/negative to get better workouts.

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

I don't think that one of the two approaches is inherently more "positive" or "negative" based. In both FlexEffect and Ageless, you are initially pulling outwards on the muscles, though they have different hand placements and techniques.

However, the new edition of FlexEffect does introduce the idea of negative reps and the importance of the negative phase of the contraction. So, if anything, I would say that FlexEffect pays more attention to the negative phase, but still does so in a balanced way.

Just my 2 cents Smile

free skin care · Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:40 pm

Hi
I am new to the forums but I saw this thread and thought I could add something. I have a nerve and muscle disease and last year was given steroid injections to help with pain. With in four months I had aged ten years. The fat often atrophies with these injections and the skin thins dramatically. I was frantic and so did some research. I found out that copper peptides were supposed to be able to help thicken skin again. and so ordered some from Skinbiology. Five months after I started to use it I had to admit that my breasts were definitely bigger and the lines around my mouth filled in quite a bit. I have not used it all over my face, but as the fat has returned to my breasts (I did not gain weight or become pregnant, but my breasts went up a full cup size) and filled in those lines from mouth to nose, I have decided to use it all over my face. You have to start slowly, but it really does seem to work. If not, at least you will have really nice skin.
Sorry this is so long.
Good luck
Al

free skin care · Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:34 am

Wow I don't recall any mention of intermediate training in the 2nd or 3rd editions. I need to go back and read my books obviously. Its true what you say though, I've heard them recommend train daily for the year, and then there is no mention of what to do after that year – but just thinking allow here it might be because of those things you mention i.e. It all depends on your goals for that muscle group, your genetics, your recuperation time, your current ability, etc. – wonder if Claudia is about and can tell us a little more about FlexEffects views on this? I do think that maybe they should consider coming up with some intermediate and advanced workouts to help us all out. Like you say, its important to get specifics for all our benefits.

I have often wondered about the training daily thing. As you say in bodybuilding they don't usually do it from what I've read. You train upper body one day, then rest and then maybe the day after that do lower body, then maybe day after that you do cardio to keep everything guessing. I'm sure there's got to be some sort of reason I don't understand. When you say you go slowly on the eccentric/negative part – do you mean you do additional time than the 3-4 seconds. 15 reps, I didn't think they recommended more than 10 reps in the old one, and they seem to have changed that recently to 5 reps (which I'm not complaining about – as it used to take me ages to do the 10 reps even with the cd). When you say its not enough for some people to get gain in muscles with the 10 reps, I think this is something that they definitely need to address – as I've never heard that before and it makes it sound like it’s a mistake they are making as it sounds like it’s a fact they are either ignoring or overlooking?

With the dvd – I know your right, but the CD is different – the longer workout is a full 6 seconds as I've timed it, but the shorter workout is the 3 seconds 6 count.

With the negative part, your describing how I thought the exercise was written – I'm not sure there is a difference? As from the demo it looks like even when Audrea contracts, she is trying to uncontract it with her hands (which is what I'm doing). So I guess its all good there.

So maybe you need to tell Deb about it – as I don't think I've ever seen mention of that negative part being the most important part for muscle building.

cm5597 wrote:

This is Miranda wrote:

I had a number of one-to-one sessions with the facial exerciser Eva Fraser and she always said the exercise will be less effective unless you slowly release the muscles.

Yes, that's definitely true!

TheresaMary wrote:

So with Ageless does this mean that the exercises there focus on negative pressure and FE favours positive pressure more. Thats interesting. Maybe we need to combine both positive/negative to get better workouts.

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

I don't think that one of the two approaches is inherently more "positive" or "negative" based. In both FlexEffect and Ageless, you are initially pulling outwards on the muscles, though they have different hand placements and techniques.

However, the new edition of FlexEffect does introduce the idea of negative reps and the importance of the negative phase of the contraction. So, if anything, I would say that FlexEffect pays more attention to the negative phase, but still does so in a balanced way.

Just my 2 cents Smile

So maybe again we should be doing this with the FlexEffect exercises too? I get so confused with all this stuff. They always say they base their stuff on bodybuilding, but from what your sharing with us CM – it looks like they are telling us incorrect things to do which I'm really getting frustrated by.

cm5597 wrote:

This is Miranda wrote:

I had a number of one-to-one sessions with the facial exerciser Eva Fraser and she always said the exercise will be less effective unless you slowly release the muscles.

Yes, that's definitely true!

cm5597 wrote:

TheresaMary wrote:

So with Ageless does this mean that the exercises there focus on negative pressure and FE favours positive pressure more. Thats interesting. Maybe we need to combine both positive/negative to get better workouts.

cm5597 wrote:

Negative pressure on a tissue is like sucking or pulling outwards on it, while positive pressure is like pushing inwards on it. I like alternating positive and negative approaches to massage.

HTH Smile

I don't think that one of the two approaches is inherently more "positive" or "negative" based. In both FlexEffect and Ageless, you are initially pulling outwards on the muscles, though they have different hand placements and techniques.

However, the new edition of FlexEffect does introduce the idea of negative reps and the importance of the negative phase of the contraction. So, if anything, I would say that FlexEffect pays more attention to the negative phase, but still does so in a balanced way.

Sorry its probably my inaccuracy here, but in Ageless, we pull the cheeks for example away from the face and then do an expression – and you said previously that negative pressure is pulling outwards, while positive is like pushing inwards – and with all the FlexEffect exercises we push inwards. I'm also wondering whether Lou knows what your talking about too – I'd love to know her thoughts as we don't do slow releases on the Ageless exercises, you kind of go straight to contracting, and then release immediately. Maybe we need to release slowly!

Its no wonder there are so many people unhappy with facial exercise programs, as they don't seem to tell us all the facts.

Theresa

free skin care · Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:14 pm

I have heard that these facial exercises can cause wrinkles. Is that true? I would really like to try a few but my skin is fragile right now, I am scared to make it worse.
Al

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