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Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:51 pm |
I'm not arguing with you about this - I want to do the best and safest thing for my skin just as much as you do.
All I'm pointing out is that we have opposing studies on just about everything we put on our skin and it's very difficult to know what to believe. There are conflicting studies on Vitamin C, Copper Peptides, Nanoparticles, Chemical Sunscreens etc etc - one minute it's a miracle product, the next it's going to kill you! There never seems to be a general consensus on anything which makes it all very confusing. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:09 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
This brings back memories from about 5 months ago I could swear we had a discussion on the ever changing and conflicting studies out there! That's science. |
Yes, I posted a long list of everything that is both good and bad for us. I'll be adding Niacinamide to it! |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:13 pm |
Kassy_A wrote: |
This is the study;
http://www.jbc.org/content/277/47/45099.full
The possible *dangers* are in regard to high dose oral therapy for conditions such as; anxiety, osteoarthritis, and psychosis. It is currently being in clinical trials as a therapy for cancer and type I diabetes. |
Just a reminder not to confuse oral supplementation with topical application. The study that's causing all the scare pertains to large doses of oral B3 supplements.
I couldn't find even one negative study that would indicate that topical niacinamide was anything but beneficial to the skin. |
_________________ ♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:10 am |
majorb wrote: |
Sorry for this daft question, ladies. I'm not terribly scientific.
Reading quickly through this thread (am waiting for visitor to arrive at the moment! ), it appears that Nia24 is still okay to use as that form has not been shown to cause a problem. Is that correct, please?
To be honest, I'm still using DMAE, though! |
As far as I'm aware, there have been no problems reported with any of the topicals containing Niacinamide. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:40 am |
I just checked and Hannah has the niacinamide in her "Let's Make Collagen" product. I think if something was questionable with the ingredient she would have changed her formula, or at least put the same warning on the niacinamide that she does for the DMAE (meaning not to use it daily). I'll continue on with the topical stuff I use with this ingredient in it until more info comes out. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:26 am |
maxon782 wrote: |
Well I must admit that the original study posted concerning the yeast cells was from 2002 so it is somewhat old, but here is a more recent study that was done on cultured human skin that found:
That "SIRT inhibitors such as sirtinol and nicotinamide enhance cell death"....while on the opposite end there is reservatrol (which does the opposite of nicotinamide and activates SIRT1)...."SIRT1 activators such as resveratrol could serve as new anti-skin aging agents".
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121369927/abstract |
majorb wrote: |
Sorry for this daft question, ladies. I'm not terribly scientific.
Reading quickly through this thread (am waiting for visitor to arrive at the moment! ), it appears that Nia24 is still okay to use as that form has not been shown to cause a problem. Is that correct, please?
To be honest, I'm still using DMAE, though! |
Nia24 is not using the niacinamide form. I don't know if this is true or not but someone who has been using Nia24 for a while said that they heard that initially Nia24 did use niacinamide but then switched over to the other form of niacin that they use now.
There are numerous studies showing that niacinamide is a potent SIRT1 inhibitor, but the form of niacin that NIA24 uses has actually been shown in a study not to inhibit SIRT1...so at least that is a good thing. |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:01 pm |
maxon782 wrote: |
Yeh, Nia24 uses the nicotinic acid (or what some call the flush type) form which in a study was shown not to decrease SIRT1.
Nicotinamide is a form of niacinamide. With all these different names it is hard to keep up with all the different forms.
In respect to their creams, personally I think $100.00 for a 1.7oz jar is way too expensive...but that is just my opinion. |
Well if you were confused before, try this:
Nia24 Intensive Recovery Complex
Ingredients (from EDS Store):
Water, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Myristyl Nicotinate (Pro-Niacin™), Glycerin, Pentaerythrityl Tetracaprylate/Tetracaprate, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), C12-20 Acid PEG-8 Ester, Butylene Glycol, Glyceryl Stearate, Squalane (olive derived), Ethylene/Acrylic Acid Copolymer, Dimethicone, Tribehenin, Acrylamide/Sodium Acryloyldimethyltaurate Copolymer, Mangifera Indica (Mango) Seed Butter, Ceramide 2, PEG-10 Rapeseed Sterol, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Saccharide Isomerate, Isohexadecane, Sodium Hyaluronate, Hexyldecanol, Ceramide 3, Hydrolyzed Wheat Gluten, Ceratonia Siliqua (Locust Bean) Gum, Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Lycopersicum (Tomato) Extract, Glycyrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract, Potassium Cetyl Phosphate, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Extract, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Extract, Cola Nitida Seed Extract, Paullinia Cupana Seed Extract, Ilex Paraguariensis Leaf Extract, Bisabolol, Phospholipids, Tocopheryl Acetate, Retinyl Palmitate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Polysorbate 80, Myristica Fragrans (Nutmeg) Kernel Extract *, Xanthan Gum, BHT, Chlorphenesin, Disodium EDTA, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17049429
Analysis and stability study of myristyl nicotinate in dermatological preparations by high-performance liquid chromatography.
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Myristyl nicotinate is an ester prodrug under development for delivery of nicotinic acid to skin for treatment and prevention of conditions that involve skin barrier impairment such as chronic photodamage and atopic dermatitis or for mitigating skin barrier impairment that results from therapy such as retinoids or steroids. The formulation stability of myristyl nicotinate is crucial because even small amounts of free nicotinic acid cause skin flushing, an effect that is not harmful but would severely limit tolerability ..... |
Niacin = nicotinic acid
Niacinamide = Nicotinamide = nicotinic acid amide
In cells, niacin is incorporated into nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD) and nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate (NADP), although the pathways for nicotinamide and nicotinic acid are very similar. NAD+ and NADP+ are coenzymes in a wide variety of enzymatic oxidation-reduction reactions.
Niacin is converted to nicotinamide and then to NAD and NADP in vivo. Niacin is a precursor to NADH, NAD+, NADP+ and NADPH, which play essential metabolic roles in living cells. |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:39 am |
Monica34 wrote: |
Sooo, if all the "proof" in Pubmed comes from the docs behind Nia 24...interesting, then that includes the studies about the pro aging effect of nicainamide versus niacin:
"...the studies were done by the doctors behind Nia 24 and the paper has a disclaimer stating that it is “sponsored research managed in accordance with the Arizona Board of Reagents conflict-of-interest policies, supported in part by Niadyne Development. All of the published studies on PubMed dealing with myristyl nicotinate were performed by the doctors behind Nia 24." |
Not all of the proof from Pubmed comes from the doctors at Nia24. What the blog meant was that all of the studies (which Pubmed shows a total of 6) about “myristyl nicotinate”, the ingredient in Nia24, do come from the doctors of Nia24 at the University of Arizona.
But, these other studies about niacinamide and how it decreases SIRT1 and how it is linked to skin cell damage…and the studies showing how an increase of SIRT1 in the skin is anti-aging and how a decrease of SIRT1 is pro-aging were Not done by the doctors from Nia24 or by the University of Arizona.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121369927/abstract
http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/6/article/3194/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17691205
Monica34 wrote: |
So then using nicotinic acid = niacin would be converted to nicotinamide = niacinamide anyhow? If this is so, then how can the effect on skin in terms of aging be different?? |
This does raise a good question and is hard to figure out since eventually they all break down to the same thing in the end.
http://www.jbc.org/content/282/34/24574
This study from Japan is about niacin metabolism and raises an interesting point that for whatever reason when it comes to the pure form of nicotinic acid (not the altered myristyl nicotinate form in Nia24) there seems to be some type of feedback inhibition protection in the body that keeps nicotinic acid from decreasing SIRT1 levels...but the niacinamide form for whatever reason seems to bypass this feedback inhibition protection in the body and decreases SIRT1 levels (which we don't want in the body or skin)...the reason for these two different results with the feedback process in the body seems to not be completely understood at this time. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:09 pm |
Monica34 wrote: |
maxon782 wrote: |
Monica34 wrote: |
Sooo, if all the "proof" in Pubmed comes from the docs behind Nia 24...interesting, then that includes the studies about the pro aging effect of nicainamide versus niacin:
"...the studies were done by the doctors behind Nia 24 and the paper has a disclaimer stating that it is “sponsored research managed in accordance with the Arizona Board of Reagents conflict-of-interest policies, supported in part by Niadyne Development. All of the published studies on PubMed dealing with myristyl nicotinate were performed by the doctors behind Nia 24." |
Not all of the proof from Pubmed comes from the doctors at Nia24. What the blog meant was that all of the studies (which Pubmed shows a total of 6) about “myristyl nicotinate”, the ingredient in Nia24, do come from the doctors of Nia24 at the University of Arizona.
But, these other studies about niacinamide and how it decreases SIRT1 and how it is linked to skin cell damage…and the studies showing how an increase of SIRT1 in the skin is anti-aging and how a decrease of SIRT1 is pro-aging were Not done by the doctors from Nia24 or by the University of Arizona.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121369927/abstract
http://www.landesbioscience.com/journals/6/article/3194/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17691205
Monica34 wrote: |
So then using nicotinic acid = niacin would be converted to nicotinamide = niacinamide anyhow? If this is so, then how can the effect on skin in terms of aging be different?? |
This does raise a good question and is hard to figure out since eventually they all break down to the same thing in the end.
http://www.jbc.org/content/282/34/24574
This study from Japan is about niacin metabolism and raises an interesting point that for whatever reason when it comes to the pure form of nicotinic acid (not the altered myristyl nicotinate form in Nia24) there seems to be some type of feedback inhibition protection in the body that keeps nicotinic acid from decreasing SIRT1 levels...but the niacinamide form for whatever reason seems to bypass this feedback inhibition protection in the body and decreases SIRT1 levels (which we don't want in the body or skin)...the reason for these two different results with the feedback process in the body seems to not be completely understood at this time. |
Ok, I looked at those links which were studies NOT done by NIA 24 docs, however I did not read anything about connection of niacinamide lowering SIRT 1? Am I missing something?? |
This study here about human skin:
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/121369927/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
states that "SIRT inhibitors such as sirtinol and nicotinamide enhance cell death". So, nicotinamide inhibits (ie decreases) SIRT.
Here is a new study I find today from China:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17851734?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
It states that "Nicotinamide decreased the expression of Sirt1 mRNA". This study from China was done on pigs. But from the studies on Pubmed it seems like in mice, pigs, yeast, and humans that nicotinamide seems to inhibit (ie decrease) SIRT1.
Now with all the different names of niacin it is easy to get mixed up, but niacinamide is also called nicotinamide:
http://www.cancer.gov/Templates/db_alpha.aspx?CdrID=44441
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:15 am |
My opinion (for what it's worth) is as follows:
Just about every skin care ingredient has its supporters and detractors and if you search hard enough you will find scientific studies that both promote and warn against any ingredient's inclusion in a topical solution. However, whenever there is the slightest whiff of "danger" as in the case of DMAE or nano-particles - the rumours fly through the industry faster than you can remove your mascara! Apart from the studies on SIRT1 that Maxon782 has posted, I have failed to find any other negative reports on Niacinamide - and those in the industry seem to have quite the opposite view.
So until it is widely accepted that Niacinamide is pro-aging I will continue to use it. |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:53 am |
Keliu wrote: |
My opinion (for what it's worth) is as follows:
Just about every skin care ingredient has its supporters and detractors and if you search hard enough you will find scientific studies that both promote and warn against any ingredient's inclusion in a topical solution. However, whenever there is the slightest whiff of "danger" as in the case of DMAE or nano-particles - the rumours fly through the industry faster than you can remove your mascara! Apart from the studies on SIRT1 that Maxon782 has posted, I have failed to find any other negative reports on Niacinamide - and those in the industry seem to have quite the opposite view.
So until it is widely accepted that Niacinamide is pro-aging I will continue to use it. |
Agreed. I would also like to point out that the study was published 18 months ago. Since then, Olay and other companies have launched new consumer products containing niacinamide. I am sure the majors like P&G are fully aware of this study and have examined it carefully. My guess is they aren't concerned with the findings at this point. |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:00 am |
Well...I just saw Kassy say she drinks red wine and thinks it might have helped her also. |
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Fri Mar 29, 2024 1:04 am |
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