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Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:48 pm |
rileygirl wrote: |
Thank you Bethany and Foxe for both of your explanations. I definitely think this is an interesting topic, so I hope the discussion continues! |
Thanks from me also. I agree Riley, I am
not contributing but following this thread with great interest! I hope to learn more.
DM |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:04 pm |
Just to complicate things further, I was recently reading about copper levels being too high and causing fatigue if there is not enough zinc to offset it.
I wonder what CP's do to the overall level of copper in the body?
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Vegetarian-based diets are very high in copper. Copper is the mineral that competes with zinc in absorption. A copper toxic woman is one who can suffer from anxiety attacks, panic attacks and is prone to candida albicans infections. Excess copper is probably the most underrated toxic mineral problem that we have in this day and age. The strange thing is that toxic copper does not show through a traditional blood test. It is only through tissue samples of hair that I have found how many women are storing this bio-unavailable or unbound copper.
Women who crave chocolate and women who drink a great deal of regular tea, for example, may be very copper toxic. Racing thoughts, insomnia, fibroid tumors and female baldness, as well as migraine headaches and numerous food and environmental ailments have all been attributed to copper toxicity.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0675/is_n5_v10/ai_12695229/pg_3/ |
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Copper overload is an insidious but increasingly common nutritional problem, says Dr. Ann Louise, and that difficulty getting out of bed, midday slumps, mood swings, insomnia, and anxiety may be symptoms of a copper/zinc imbalance. She discovered this link after she encountered several patients in her nutritional practice--most of them women--who were not suffering from hypothyroidism, adrenal problems, or anemia (as she had suspected), but rather a mineral imbalance that was diagnosed after simple hair testing.
http://www.annlouise.com/25/women-s-health/12/ |
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_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:10 am |
bethany wrote: |
Just to complicate things further, I was recently reading about copper levels being too high and causing fatigue if there is not enough zinc to offset it.
I wonder what CP's do to the overall level of copper in the body?
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I actually was just thinking about that very thing this morning when I poured on the CP's on my arms! |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:30 am |
rileygirl wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Just to complicate things further, I was recently reading about copper levels being too high and causing fatigue if there is not enough zinc to offset it.
I wonder what CP's do to the overall level of copper in the body?
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I actually was just thinking about that very thing this morning when I poured on the CP's on my arms! |
Hi Everyone,
I will see what more I can find out from Dr. Pickart as soon as he returns and gets settled in. I found this on the SB website from a similar concern on copper and cognitive decline:
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9940055903/m/547106983
This is from my own knowledge on Copper. If anything, people as they age often do not get enough copper. In many - premature gray hair may be the first sign. The body becomes less protected as we age and abdominal aortas and osteoporosis are some of the more severe problems. The deficiency is often a predecessor of many serious problems.
I am a vegetarian myself and have been for a very long time. Using CPs for my skin for a long time too. My body is in sync. I’ve added 3mg copper every other day to my vitamin cocktail. Men can take it more often, but should not really exceed 3 mg/daily. Zinc to copper ratio should be 7:1. While there is a lot of good info to be found out there on the web, there is equally as much bad that often is the source of misunderstanding and confusion.
Thanks Foxe for jumping in. You seem to have a very good understanding. And well quite frankly, I needed a little support on the topic. I was considering calling the sheriff.
I await Dr. P's return. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:34 am |
bethany wrote: |
Women who crave chocolate and women who drink a great deal of regular tea, for example, may be very copper toxic. Racing thoughts, insomnia, fibroid tumors and female baldness, as well as migraine headaches and numerous food and environmental ailments have all been attributed to copper toxicity. |
This is me TOTALLY - (except the baldness)!! ...And I've just started using Skin Signals - my thoughts are racing, it's midnight now and I can't sleep - maybe a cup of tea and a piece of chocolate will help! |
_________________ Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:53 am |
Keliu wrote: |
This is me TOTALLY - (except the baldness)!! ...And I've just started using Skin Signals - my thoughts are racing, it's midnight now and I can't sleep - maybe a cup of tea and a piece of chocolate will help! |
Keliu, You certainly know how to brighten my day! Thanks for the laugh. You are hilarious. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:49 am |
rileygirl wrote: |
Keliu wrote: |
This is me TOTALLY - (except the baldness)!! ...And I've just started using Skin Signals - my thoughts are racing, it's midnight now and I can't sleep - maybe a cup of tea and a piece of chocolate will help! |
Keliu, You certainly know how to brighten my day! Thanks for the laugh. You are hilarious. |
I second that, I just had to get some coffee.
Kelilu now you have to add this to your list, that ever growing list first bathe in this and ward off cancer, next too much copper is toxic and can seriously harm us. LOL
For some strange reason the song "I shot the sheriff" keeps running through my head? |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:27 am |
I just found some info on the SB Forum site that might settle a few of you here. It might also mean that topical app of CPs isn't going to ward off any cancer for us (except maybe some skin carner).
Dr Pickart made several posts saying the ratio of zinc to copper should be 7:1, but also that they really don't know what the proper ratio should be.
One of his links to the supplement pages mentions a few other things about copper and its absorption. Mainly - he says that copper toxitity is rare and one can take up to 10mg to be safe. He also says that absorption of copper peptide products "might possibly result in a very small uptake of copper".
He gives this as an example:
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..if one used 2 grams of product daily that contained 2 milligrams of copper, and if the skin uptake was at 0.1% penetration, this would introduce about 0.002 milligrams of copper into your body. If penetration through the skin was as high as 1%, your body uptake would still be about 0.02 milligrams or 1% of the RDA for copper. |
Read more about it here .
Personally - I've adjusted my zinc and copper to accomodate a ratio closer to 7:1. Most multiple supplements don't cover that ratio - they're more like 30:1 |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:34 am |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Kelilu now you have to add this to your list, that ever growing list first bathe in this and ward off cancer, next too much copper is toxic and can seriously harm us. LOL
For some strange reason the song "I shot the sheriff" keeps running through my head? |
It's a growing list, isn't it? One can always find something like this - esp on EDS! (love it here-keeps us on our toes) |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:46 am |
foxe wrote: |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Kelilu now you have to add this to your list, that ever growing list first bathe in this and ward off cancer, next too much copper is toxic and can seriously harm us. LOL
For some strange reason the song "I shot the sheriff" keeps running through my head? |
It's a growing list, isn't it? One can always find something like this - esp on EDS! (love it here-keeps us on our toes) |
Yes Foxe it most certainly is an ever growing list, it is a very interesting subject we have here! That's one reason I love EDS the exchange of varying scientific perspectives on many subjects.
DM |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:47 am |
Star Model wrote: |
I am a vegetarian myself and have been for a very long time. Using CPs for my skin for a long time too. My body is in sync. I’ve added 3mg copper every other day to my vitamin cocktail. Men can take it more often, but should not really exceed 3 mg/daily. Zinc to copper ratio should be 7:1. While there is a lot of good info to be found out there on the web, there is equally as much bad that often is the source of misunderstanding and confusion.
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You may want to check out Dr. Gittleman's qualifications before you infer that she has misunderstood requirements and is confused, lol.
For starters, she has a Ph.D. in Holistic Nutrition, is a Certified Nutrition Specialist (CNS), and has a M.S. in Nutrition Education.
Here is a link to the rest of her credentials:
http://www.annlouise.com/10/credentials/ |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:54 am |
Posted 17 May 2007 04:27 PM
Dear SB and Dr Pickart,
I had some very good results from the CPs night eyes and being somewhat of a scientist I had a question.
Do you know how much of the copper peptides make it past the deeper dermis and into the blood supply? Have there been any studies as to whether the active ingredients can make their way systemically?
Its only to do with my general curiosity and recently reading that glycolic acid doesnt penetrate deeper into the blood supply.
Thanks!
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Dr. Pickart:
About 0.1 % of the copper penetrates the skin. But in all the animal safety studies and the human trials, we never observed a rise in blood copper.
It is difficult for charged water-loving molecules to penetrate human skin.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5990018252/m/9650001194?r=7560065194#7560065194 |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:21 am |
Lacy, thanks for finding that!! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:48 pm |
bethany wrote: |
Star Model wrote: |
I am a vegetarian myself and have been for a very long time. Using CPs for my skin for a long time too. My body is in sync. I’ve added 3mg copper every other day to my vitamin cocktail. Men can take it more often, but should not really exceed 3 mg/daily. Zinc to copper ratio should be 7:1. While there is a lot of good info to be found out there on the web, there is equally as much bad that often is the source of misunderstanding and confusion.
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You may want to check out Dr. Gittleman's qualifications before you infer that she has misunderstood requirements and is confused, lol.
For starters, she has a Ph.D. in Holistic Nutrition, is a Certified Nutrition Specialist (CNS), and has a M.S. in Nutrition Education.
Here is a link to the rest of her credentials:
http://www.annlouise.com/10/credentials/ |
There was no inferring her or anyone in particular regarding info on the web. It was merely a blanket statement aimed more for the ".com crowd". There is tons of bad info that in many minds becomes fact.
No need to get combative. Unfortunately, I have noticed that as soon as the accusatory tone comes out so do the same combatants.
I am in agreement with Foxe on the 7:1 ratio. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:06 pm |
Star Model wrote: |
No need to get combative. Unfortunately, I have noticed that as soon as the accusatory tone comes out so do the same combatants. |
That's why one should avoid using any type of accusatory tone. No accusations or inferences = no combatants.
At the end of the day, none of the people in this discussion appear to have the qualifications to say what the nutritional ratios for copper:zinc should be (and that would include Pickart). Fortunately, we can all do our own research and come up with the approach we feel is best for our particular situation. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 1:45 pm |
If the aim here is to try to discredit anything that Dr. Pickart thinks or says, then you can pull out fragmented statements all day long in any attempts. But why? If you don't agree with the GHK Cancer research, then I would think you would just not bother with it.
Unless you are in the exact same business, it doesn't make sense to so quickly attack as if on the same level as the scientists who study copper.
I posted this because I found it very encouraging and wanted to share it with others, that's all. Not create a war.
It's as simple as that. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:28 pm |
Star Model wrote: |
If the aim here is to try to discredit anything that Dr. Pickart thinks or says, then you can pull out fragmented statements all day long in any attempts. But why? If you don't agree with the GHK Cancer research, then I would think you would just not bother with it.
Unless you are in the exact same business, it doesn't make sense to so quickly attack as if on the same level as the scientists who study copper.
I posted this because I found it very encouraging and wanted to share it with others, that's all. Not create a war.
It's as simple as that. |
Exactly who is attacking? I personally haven't said anything about the cancer research. I clarified the GHK/GHK-cu since you weren't clear, added a little CP history from historical discussions, and asked a question about copper levels overall, while quoting a nationally known nutritionist's concerns.
I'm really not sure where the high level of emotion is coming from. But I'll just sit back and wait to hear the rest of the details when Pickart makes them available, and leave the drama to those that are looking for it. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:43 pm |
bethany wrote: |
Lacy, thanks for finding that!! |
I second that. Thank you Lacy.
Bethany Thank You for the words of wisdom. |
_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:27 pm |
DarkMoon wrote: |
Bethany Thank You for the words of wisdom. |
You are very welcome.
You know....I just reread this thread, and it looks like I meandered into something that was very emotional before I got here.
I had nothing to do with whatever got deleted, and also happen to have a fridge full of CPs, and reply heavily on Folligen For Blondes for my hair. So I am definitely not out to discredit Pickart after spending so much money, lol.
Hopefully whatever happened in the past can stay in past, and the residual emotions can cool a bit. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:23 pm |
Star Model wrote: |
Here is some very exciting info. that I recently received from Dr. Pickart on GHK and Cancer.
From Dr. Pickart:
Quote: |
The possible anti-cancer actions of GHK looks fantastic. Gene control is a very new and exciting area. As we get older, our DNA makes fewer health promoting molecules and more oncogenes that promote cancer and more inflammatory molecules.
I think higher tissue copper keeps cells younger. And GHK mediates this.
Plus if we can activate unused adult stem cells that will be the end of the Hayflick Limit. |
I point blank asked Dr. P if there is any positive effect on the body when applying CPs topically. He said that CPs are absorbed into the skin through the bloodstream and are then converted to GHK. GHK helps to protect the liver, bones, stomach, colon, etc.
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So does this mean that if we use a body lotion that contains Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, we will be protecting our body from cancer too? |
_________________ Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:43 pm |
Sorry off topic kids but - I'd like to know what Bethany thinks of her hair care products from SB. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:07 pm |
sister sweets wrote: |
Sorry off topic kids but - I'd like to know what Bethany thinks of her hair care products from SB. |
I hated the Folligen spray because it completely ruined my haircolor...the blue/green in the copper interacted with my red haircolor and left a dark brown mud color everywhere the Folligen touched. (and took $200+ in corrective color to fix) I would only recommend that for people with VERY dark (as in black) hair.
But once I was over that drama, I tried the Folligen for Blondes (a tin peptide which is colorless) and I was VERY, VERY impressed with the results. That is one of the very few hairloss treatments I have tried that has really worked. (plus the tin peptides really make your fingernails grow like crazy since you get it on them while applying the hair stuff) |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:32 pm |
Oh Cool. thanks. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:16 am |
I would love to have an answer here?
Lacy53 wrote: |
Star Model wrote: |
Here is some very exciting info. that I recently received from Dr. Pickart on GHK and Cancer.
From Dr. Pickart:
Quote: |
The possible anti-cancer actions of GHK looks fantastic. Gene control is a very new and exciting area. As we get older, our DNA makes fewer health promoting molecules and more oncogenes that promote cancer and more inflammatory molecules.
I think higher tissue copper keeps cells younger. And GHK mediates this.
Plus if we can activate unused adult stem cells that will be the end of the Hayflick Limit. |
I point blank asked Dr. P if there is any positive effect on the body when applying CPs topically. He said that CPs are absorbed into the skin through the bloodstream and are then converted to GHK. GHK helps to protect the liver, bones, stomach, colon, etc.
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So does this mean that if we use a body lotion that contains Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, we will be protecting our body from cancer too? |
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_________________ I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:53 am |
Well, I did a little more reading up on the GHK Cancer Research that Dr. Pickart sent me. An 8 page published study. I posted the topic as a "subject of interest".
The study had isolated GHK "the molecule" as one of two looking good in cancer prevention and a basis for possible future cures. GHK is naturally occurring in the body, but production diminishes as we age.
First generation GHK-Cu "the peptide" and 2nd generation SRCPs were discovered by Dr. Pickart and have been studied and connected to their ability to heal the skin. Dr. Pickart sold his original company years ago which revolved around 1st generation GHK-Cu, the peptide.
He since discovered a stronger, more resilient strain that is the basis for the SB line. While neither GHK-Cu and SRCPs are the exact same thing as GHK the molecule, they are all related.
The study on "GHK and Cancer" just came out. It looks very promising as a first step to building a basis for further cancer research.
No one is saying that applied topically that GHK-Cu or SRCPs will prevent cancer, but GHK the molecule may hold the answers for the future. Dr. Pickart is still very much involved in the research that is being done on GHK "the molecule" and he is very excited about these latest findings. For those who don't understand why he would be excited, you must not understand the mind of a "brilliant scientist". Nobody said they were easy to follow.
GHK is his baby and while there are many other scientists involved with the continuing research of GHK, that is exactly how scientific research works.
I agree with Sweets, A supplement would be very cool!
Here are 2 more recent articles which are more oriented to the skin:
Look at
http://reverseskinaging.com/copper-peptides-suppress-cancer-genes.html
Also look at
http://reverseskinaging.com/copper-peptides-decorin-scars-muscle-nerves-anticancer.html |
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