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Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:47 pm  |
I have yet to try out Niacinamide myself.
How do the both help skin to produce collagen and eliminate wrinkles, which one works better ? |
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CLxx |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:26 am |
I think without a question that Vit A is more effective. However Vit A can be too harsh for some people.
I read recently (sorry cant remember where) that niacinamide has about a 1/4 of anti-aging power of vit A. |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:47 am |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
I think without a question that Vit A is more effective. However Vit A can be too harsh for some people.
I read recently (sorry cant remember where) that niacinamide has about a 1/4 of anti-aging power of vit A. |
i guess that means Vit A is still the best so far then |
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Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:53 am |
| why both? do they do different things on the skin? |
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Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:16 am |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
I think without a question that Vit A is more effective. However Vit A can be too harsh for some people.
I read recently (sorry cant remember where) that niacinamide has about a 1/4 of anti-aging power of vit A. |
Oh I C. So I better stick to my vit-A regime for the effect to remove lines. Niacinamide however can also help to whiten skin while vit-A turns my face reddish |
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CLxx |
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Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:15 am |
| CLxx wrote: |
| Oh I C. So I better stick to my vit-A regime for the effect to remove lines. Niacinamide however can also help to whiten skin while vit-A turns my face reddish |
You can definitely use both if you like. I do, B in am and A pm. Niacinamide has different benefits. |
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Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:27 am |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
| CLxx wrote: |
| Oh I C. So I better stick to my vit-A regime for the effect to remove lines. Niacinamide however can also help to whiten skin while vit-A turns my face reddish |
You can definitely use both if you like. I do, B in am and A pm. Niacinamide has different benefits. |
Absolutely! 
You can read about benefits to the skin here:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FKA/is_3_71/ai_n31559878/
HTH
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:03 pm |
| If you use niacinamide, don't use it together with sirtuins. If you use retinoids (ie, Vitamin A), don't use it with AHAs. |
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Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:48 pm |
| 3rd.oculus wrote: |
| If you use niacinamide, don't use it together with sirtuins. If you use retinoids (ie, Vitamin A), don't use it with AHAs. |
What are sirtuins?
I know many people use Vit A with AHA's (not necessarily at the same though). Why is this an issue? |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:34 am |
| Sirtuins are enzymes whose increased activity is linked to longevity because they protect mitochondrial DNA. Internally, resveratrol is said to increase sirtuin production by activating sirt genes. Topically, teprenone (Renovage) is meant to protect telomeres in skin cells. |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:40 am |
| GirlieGirl wrote: |
I know many people use Vit A with AHA's (not necessarily at the same though). Why is this an issue? |
I read an article about it on FutureDerm - she references some studies, linked here: http://www.futurederm.com/2009/09/08/3-surprising-combinations-of-ingredients-you-might-not-want-in-your-skin-care/
Basically, there are a number of reasons:
1.
| Quote: |
| According to Dr. Leslie Baumann, M.D., Chief of the Department of Cosmetic Dermatology and Professor of Dermatology at the University of Miami, retinoids should not be mixed with BHA (salicylic acid) or AHA (glycolic acid) because the BHA and AHAs can inactivate the retinoid. |
2.
| Quote: |
| it would be virtually impossible to achieve a pH in which the activity of all three ingredients would be optimized (i.e., pH < pKa for AHAs/BHAs) and in which all the ingredients are included in effective concentrations within the same solution, or when applied to the skin synchronously. |
3.
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| Another reason why you may not wish to use AHAs, BHAs, and retinoids together is because all may work, at least in part, by thinning the stratum corneum (the outermost layer of skin). |
4.
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| Furthermore, while it has been well-documented that retinoids increase photosensitivity, some studies show that AHAs increase photosensitivity and other studies show that AHAs actually have a photoprotective effect (according to the textbook Cosmetic Dermatology by Dr. Murad Alam et. al.). |
Of course, if you've been using retinoids+AHA and it's worked well for you, I have no reason to argue  |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:04 am |
| For some, using both, retinoids in pm and AHA or BHA in am may be too irritating as well. |
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Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:22 am |
| Monica34 wrote: |
| For some, using both, retinoids in pm and AHA or BHA in am may be too irritating as well. |
Oh definitely. Its not something someone should start using both. The people I know who do this have been time A users first.
| 3rd.oculus wrote: |
Quote:
According to Dr. Leslie Baumann, M.D., Chief of the Department of Cosmetic Dermatology and Professor of Dermatology at the University of Miami, retinoids should not be mixed with BHA (salicylic acid) or AHA (glycolic acid) because the BHA and AHAs can inactivate the retinoid. |
I remember now, we had this conversation here about what Dr B said. I cant find the posting though. |
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Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:25 am |
This is why you should use niacinamde:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20374604
It does everything vitamin A derivatives do, but it's less harsh and also helps with yellowing of the skin.
Also, prescription retin-a has been linked to an increase in deaths versus placebo:
http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/521/56/
Interventions: Application of tretinoin, 0.1%, or vehicle control cream twice daily to the face and ears.
Main Outcome Measures: Death, which was not contemplated as an end point in the original study design.
Results: The interventionwas terminated 6months early because of an excessive number of deaths in the tretinointreated group. Post hoc analysis of this difference revealed minor imbalances in age, comorbidity, and smoking status, all of which were important predictors of death. After adjusting for these imbalances, the difference in mortality between the randomized groups remained statistically significant.
Vitamin A is healthy but the man-made derivative rx version of it: retin-A is not the real vitamin A, and could be very harmful. You never hear about it though because it's such a profitable product. |
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Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:07 pm |
At least I'll look damn fine in my coffin. 
Seriously that is a load of BS. I saw this when it first cam out and was discussed over at skincaretalk.com. If this were evenly remotely true, you think more discussion about it would exist??? You fail to highlight the rest of the article that shoots down this crazy theory. And Niacinamide, while a fine anti-aging ingredient that I use myself, is no substitute for Tretinoin. |
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Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:22 pm |
| Pandax12 wrote: |
At least I'll look damn fine in my coffin.
Seriously that is a load of BS. I saw this when it first cam out and was discussed over at skincaretalk.com. If this were evenly remotely true, you think more discussion about it would exist??? You fail to highlight the rest of the article that shoots down this crazy theory. And Niacinamide, while a fine anti-aging ingredient that I use myself, is no substitute for Tretinoin. |
There is no "theory" and zero "BS" in that article. Here are the FACTS:
82 (14%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 53 (9%) placebo. Before the end of intervention in 2004 the deaths climbed to 184: 108 (19%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 76 (14%) placebo. And by the end of study (follow-up phase) there were 212 deaths: 122 (22%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 90 (16%) placebo.
With a continually climbing mortality rate all the way up to over double the placebo, it's very logical that the difference between the groups was the only known constant and always known difference. Tretinoin.
Also NO WHERE in the article does it shoot down any of that information.
You could attribute that difference to chance if you want. It's your life.
There are many other safe and proven ways inlcuding vitamin C and niacinamde, to improve wrinkles and texture and at much less cost then retin-A.
Not to mention just as many people, including myself who got bad results and "orange peel" texture when they used retin-A. |
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Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:03 pm |
I used Retin A off and on for 15 years...it never cleared my acne...always in a state of breakouts...my skin would become red and irritated...dehydrated after several months of use. I do believe it staved off some aging, tho, the texture of my skin has become rough, orange peel like...my acne scars have worsened...don't know exactly what caused it, but I have my suspicions.
I recently started using CeraVe...and within a very short time, my skin got better...softer, hydrated, less irritated and plumper...to the point where people noticed.
I'm sticking with it niacinamide for now... |
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Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:51 pm |
| tomisonbottom wrote: |
| Pandax12 wrote: |
At least I'll look damn fine in my coffin.
Seriously that is a load of BS. I saw this when it first cam out and was discussed over at skincaretalk.com. If this were evenly remotely true, you think more discussion about it would exist??? You fail to highlight the rest of the article that shoots down this crazy theory. And Niacinamide, while a fine anti-aging ingredient that I use myself, is no substitute for Tretinoin. |
There is no "theory" and zero "BS" in that article. Here are the FACTS:
82 (14%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 53 (9%) placebo. Before the end of intervention in 2004 the deaths climbed to 184: 108 (19%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 76 (14%) placebo. And by the end of study (follow-up phase) there were 212 deaths: 122 (22%) deaths in retinoid group compared to 90 (16%) placebo.
With a continually climbing mortality rate all the way up to over double the placebo, it's very logical that the difference between the groups was the only known constant and always known difference. Tretinoin.
Also NO WHERE in the article does it shoot down any of that information.
You could attribute that difference to chance if you want. It's your life.
There are many other safe and proven ways inlcuding vitamin C and niacinamde, to improve wrinkles and texture and at much less cost then retin-A.
Not to mention just as many people, including myself who got bad results and "orange peel" texture when they used retin-A. |
You just keep on believing those lies and continue being wrong. Been using it for well over 20 years and will forever. Hey go ask 1000 dermatologists if they believe that garbage and 1000 will say no. But your right.....right????? |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:37 am |
Just on a side note ladies,
you shouldn't be using retin A, ideally, under the age of about 40.
(Or have severe acne..)
Using stronger anti aging products when a skin is about 25 - 30ish, the skin will get used to the process of the product and become more and more dependent on it. And not only that but the skin can become used to it, so down the road you will only the the option of using something stronger than you were before to stop the ageing.
Now I don't know how old the ladies on this thread are but just incase...
My suggestion, if retin a is going to be used is use it in small percentages and not every day or every morning and night. |
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:05 am |
Under the age of 40 – where the hell did you get this from?
I was recommended by a professional derm to start using Retin A at 30 years old. So to tell people that they shouldn’t be using it without any formal qualification or understanding of it is completely your personal opinion and nothing factual at all.
There are many derms who prescribe Retin A to people under 30. And if you use pubmed to look at the studies they showed that manhy of the so called anti aging results that occurred were from nightly usage. There were several studies done suggesting every other night which provided the same benefits. As to the percentage, there is some degree of differences in the results produced but the majority done on 0.5% seemed to indicate the best results (significantly more than the 0.1% and 0.025%.
I think its important to distinguish between personal opinion and facts here – sorry because someone reading your message could easily think they were making a mistake following your message.
| heyheymonster wrote: |
Just on a side note ladies,
you shouldn't be using retin A, ideally, under the age of about 40.
(Or have severe acne..)
Using stronger anti aging products when a skin is about 25 - 30ish, the skin will get used to the process of the product and become more and more dependent on it. And not only that but the skin can become used to it, so down the road you will only the the option of using something stronger than you were before to stop the ageing.
Now I don't know how old the ladies on this thread are but just incase...
My suggestion, if retin a is going to be used is use it in small percentages and not every day or every morning and night. |
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:08 am |
| heyheymonster wrote: |
Just on a side note ladies,
you shouldn't be using retin A, ideally, under the age of about 40.
(Or have severe acne..)
Using stronger anti aging products when a skin is about 25 - 30ish, the skin will get used to the process of the product and become more and more dependent on it. And not only that but the skin can become used to it, so down the road you will only the the option of using something stronger than you were before to stop the ageing.
Now I don't know how old the ladies on this thread are but just incase...
My suggestion, if retin a is going to be used is use it in small percentages and not every day or every morning and night. |
Wow... more mis-information. You have nothing to back up your rubbish theory that using retin-a under the age of 40 is a bad thing. Plenty, and I mean plenty of people around the world use it who are well under 40. Plenty also use it daily and it's retin-a 101 to not use it in the morning.
http://www.skinacea.com/retinoids/use-retinoids-right-part-one.html#.VNjPwiz9kdU |
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:44 am |
Rubbish...
well,
thanks for immediately dismissing it instead of doing your own research. If you did, im sure you'd see what im talking about.
And yes, I know no one should wear R.A. in the morning, it was a recommendation for anyone new to R.A.
Dont expect any more replies from my end about this though. This forum isnt what it used to be, I'm done with introducing "new" information if everyone wont take more than 5 mins to think about it or look it up. |
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Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:48 am |
| heyheymonster wrote: |
Rubbish...
well,
thanks for immediately dismissing it instead of doing your own research. If you did, im sure you'd see what im talking about.
And yes, I know no one should wear R.A. in the morning, it was a recommendation for anyone new to R.A.
Dont expect any more replies from my end about this though. This forum isnt what it used to be, I'm done with introducing "new" information if everyone wont take more than 5 mins to think about it or look it up. |
I, for one, have appreciated your information, HeyHey...
I know Vitamin A has benefited many...but, I also know that accutane gave me long term problems, like vision loss...and, I suspect Retin A is behind my skin problems as my skin looks so much better off it.
Of course, my dermatologist downplays all this, which is why I no longer see him.
I think the key is to do your homework, weigh the benefits and side effects...make your own decisions about what's best... |
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