C E Ferulic Sample Questions
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free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:54 pm

Just received a sample of skinceuticals c e ferulic but noticed it has turned slightly brown and has an odd smell. Is that normal for this particular serum?

Thanks,

Dee

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:37 pm

Dee28 wrote:

Just received a sample of skinceuticals c e ferulic but noticed it has turned slightly brown and has an odd smell. Is that normal for this particular serum?

Thanks,

Dee

Hi Dee!
That would say it has oxidized to me, a good C serum should be clear or I have read of some Skincentuals being a very pale champaign color which might be the FA in it, but brown and a bad odor are definitely signs it's oxidized. Sorry!

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:07 pm

Others have said that CE does have an odd smell, although I never noticed, so that may be normal. But as DM said it should definitely be a very pale champagne/yellow not dark at all.
This product, like most Vit C's, oxidize so quickly it really needs special care to help keep it fresh as long as possible.

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:07 pm

Dee28 wrote:

Just received a sample of skinceuticals c e ferulic but noticed it has turned slightly brown and has an odd smell. Is that normal for this particular serum?

Thanks,

Dee

No, this is not normal for the SD CEF. It is a light golden color, and it smells like a hot dog (which could be the odd smell you notice!). But the brown is definitely not normal for the SC.

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:17 pm

Just as an FYI regarding L-Ascorbic Acid water based serums..

Stage 1 of oxidation is when it's mixed into water when formulated.

Stage 2 of oxidation shows itself by color change.. pale yellow > deep yellow > amber > rust > brown

Personally I would never use a Vitamin C serum that has reached the 2nd stage of oxidation because it is now pro-oxidant, and will do all harm and no good.

IMHO of course... Wink

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:34 pm

FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid solubility relies on an alkaline environment, and the chemical can be extracted from various plants with the use of a strong alkaline solution. FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid esterase, an enzyme that can be harvested from certain bacteria and fungi, is sometimes used to aid the extraction process. When extracted and purified, the substance takes the form of a yellow-colored powder.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ferulic-acid.htm

slight yellow colored powder. Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:09 pm

The tiny bit of FA (.5%) in a C serum won't cause any discoloration.. Mine always looks like eggshell white from the day I make it, till it's gone..

Here's a picture of a C serum I made a while ago that actually has 1% FA;

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:16 pm

Mine looks white during formulation also -

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:16 pm

I think it has oxidized, a fresh VC serum should be clear.

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:44 pm

kikiw wrote:

I think it has oxidized, a fresh VC serum should be clear.

LAA begins to oxidize before any color changes take place so brown is oxidized. Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:20 pm

Thanks everyone Smile

Guess I should have been more clear; it's very light brown.....almost amber (like kassy mentioned).

And yes it does smell like hotdogs! lol

Dee

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:34 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid solubility relies on an alkaline environment, and the chemical can be extracted from various plants with the use of a strong alkaline solution. FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid esterase, an enzyme that can be harvested from certain bacteria and fungi, is sometimes used to aid the extraction process. When extracted and purified, the substance takes the form of a yellow-colored powder.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ferulic-acid.htm

slight yellow colored powder. Smile

Thanks for the extra info darkmoon Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:35 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Just as an FYI regarding L-Ascorbic Acid water based serums..

Stage 1 of oxidation is when it's mixed into water when formulated.

Stage 2 of oxidation shows itself by color change.. pale yellow > deep yellow > amber > rust > brown

Personally I would never use a Vitamin C serum that has reached the 2nd stage of oxidation because it is now pro-oxidant, and will do all harm and no good.

IMHO of course... Wink

And an opinion I really value as you certainly know your stuff. The serum does appear to be that sort of deep yellow/amber color so perhaps it needs to be binned. But at least it's only a sample.

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 pm

Dee28 wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid solubility relies on an alkaline environment, and the chemical can be extracted from various plants with the use of a strong alkaline solution. FerulicFerulicFerulic acidacidacid esterase, an enzyme that can be harvested from certain bacteria and fungi, is sometimes used to aid the extraction process. When extracted and purified, the substance takes the form of a yellow-colored powder.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-ferulic-acid.htm

slight yellow colored powder. Smile

Glad it helped. Smile

Thanks for the extra info darkmoon Smile

free skin care · Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:39 pm

Don't use it Dee. I've had samples of this before and some have been amber in color and I've had to say "no". Have you thought of making your own - it's so inexpensive once you get started and you'll know your batch is fresh.

free skin care · Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:41 am

sister sweets wrote:

Don't use it Dee. I've had samples of this before and some have been amber in color and I've had to say "no". Have you thought of making your own - it's so inexpensive once you get started and you'll know your batch is fresh.

Well I did start making my own batches a few months back but was paranoid about oxidation once applied to the skin in the pressence of air and sunlight. When using my own vit c serum, it did make my skin very smooth and glowing but at the same time it was more slack and less elastic. Confused

Dee

free skin care · Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:06 am

Dee28 wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

Don't use it Dee. I've had samples of this before and some have been amber in color and I've had to say "no". Have you thought of making your own - it's so inexpensive once you get started and you'll know your batch is fresh.

Well I did start making my own batches a few months back but was paranoid about oxidation once applied to the skin in the pressence of air and sunlight. When using my own vit c serum, it did make my skin very smooth and glowing but at the same time it was more slack and less elastic. Confused

Dee

oh dear, can an oxidised vit c serum cause that kind of damage ?

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:11 am

Jackie284,

It's no good using oxidized C serum because the antioxidant action is no longer there. It can't do the job of scavenging free radicals in the skin once it's oxidized, damaging maybe, ineffective definitely! Smile

free skin care · Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:51 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

Jackie284,

It's no good using oxidized C serum because the antioxidant action is no longer there. It can't do the job of scavenging free radicals in the skin once it's oxidized, damaging maybe, ineffective definitely! Smile

Once vitamin C has oxidized it becomes "pro" oxidant, which generates free radicals, which is definitely damaging.

Continuing to use a C serum that has oxidized will result in a dull, gray skin in a matter of days to weeks. And that's just what you'll see on the outside, the *inside* (the skin) story is just as ominous.

free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:38 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Continuing to use a C serum that has oxidized will result in a dull, gray skin in a matter of days to weeks. And that's just what you'll see on the outside, the *inside* (the skin) story is just as ominous.

Really, it's terrible! I thought use a C serum that has oxidized just will not be as effective as unoxidized. It will be worse...

free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:55 am

I am surprised that you received a brown colored Vit. C from SkinCeuticals. I order direct from SkinCeuticals and have used their Vit. C serums for 5 years and never received a brown serum (or orange). The color should be anywhere from clear to a slight pale champagne color.

free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:06 pm

kikiw wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Continuing to use a C serum that has oxidized will result in a dull, gray skin in a matter of days to weeks. And that's just what you'll see on the outside, the *inside* (the skin) story is just as ominous.

Really, it's terrible! I thought use a C serum that has oxidized just will not be as effective as unoxidized. It will be worse...

This is what I have learned about topical Vitamin C products (adapted from Cosmetic dermatology: principles and practice By Leslie Baumann):

Quote:

In humans vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can be obtained solely from food, such as citrus fruits. Sunlight and environmental pollution can deplete vitamin C present in the epidermis and because vitamin C is a potent antioxidant, enhancing its levels in the skin seems reasonable. Vitamin C predominantly exists in its reduced form, ascorbic acid. Its oxidized form, dehydro-L-ascorbic acid can be found in trace quantities and can revert back to ascorbic acid. However, if the lactone ring irreversibly opens, diketogulonic acid is formed, which is no longer active. This happens when vitamin C preparations are oxidized, rendering them ineffective and useless. Thus, vitamin C preparations should be kept in airtight, light-resistant containers to avoid exposure to UV rays or the air.

Topical vitamin C as a photoprotectant has been studied in vitro and in vivo, demonstrating its effects in preventing sun damage. Furthermore, adding topical vitamin C to “after–sun” products has been shown to scavenge UV-induced reactive oxygen species. Thus, vitamin C preparations are useful in preventing or lessening the detrimental effects of UV radiation.

So when L-AA is completely oxidized, it is ineffective. When it is partially oxidized, it can in theory be converted back to L-AA given the correct conditions necessary for conversion.

I am not fully convinced that oxidized L-AA is dangerous or ominous though. As far as turning your skin dull and gray in a matter of days or weeks, I have never seen this comment made in a reliable scientific article. Personally I would never use an oxidized L-AA product, simply because it isn't doing what it is supposed to do (much better to replace it). The pro-oxidizing effect of Vitamin C may be true in theory, but I am not sure it has been studied with respect to topical applications.

Not a popular point of view on this forum, but I thought I would state it anyway.

free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:32 pm

MystyPines wrote:

I am surprised that you received a brown colored Vit. C from SkinCeuticals. I order direct from SkinCeuticals and have used their Vit. C serums for 5 years and never received a brown serum (or orange). The color should be anywhere from clear to a slight pale champagne color.

I just bought a sample from an ebay seller, it may have been out of date?

free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:06 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

This is what I have learned about topical Vitamin C products (adapted from Cosmetic dermatology: principles and practice By Leslie Baumann):

Quote:

In humans vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can be obtained solely from food, such as citrus fruits. Sunlight and environmental pollution can deplete vitamin C present in the epidermis and because vitamin C is a potent antioxidant, enhancing its levels in the skin seems reasonable. Vitamin C predominantly exists in its reduced form, ascorbic acid. Its oxidized form, dehydro-L-ascorbic acid can be found in trace quantities and can revert back to ascorbic acid. However, if the lactone ring irreversibly opens, diketogulonic acid is formed, which is no longer active. This happens when vitamin C preparations are oxidized, rendering them ineffective and useless. Thus, vitamin C preparations should be kept in airtight, light-resistant containers to avoid exposure to UV rays or the air.

Topical vitamin C as a photoprotectant has been studied in vitro and in vivo, demonstrating its effects in preventing sun damage. Furthermore, adding topical vitamin C to “after–sun” products has been shown to scavenge UV-induced reactive oxygen species. Thus, vitamin C preparations are useful in preventing or lessening the detrimental effects of UV radiation.

So when L-AA is completely oxidized, it is ineffective. When it is partially oxidized, it can in theory be converted back to L-AA given the correct conditions necessary for conversion.

I am not fully convinced that oxidized L-AA is dangerous or ominous though. As far as turning your skin dull and gray in a matter of days or weeks, I have never seen this comment made in a reliable scientific article. Personally I would never use an oxidized L-AA product, simply because it isn't doing what it is supposed to do (much better to replace it). The pro-oxidizing effect of Vitamin C may be true in theory, but I am not sure it has been studied with respect to topical applications.

Not a popular point of view on this forum, but I thought I would state it anyway.

Thanks for your sharing!
No matter oxidized L-AA is dangerous or not, I agree with you, never use an oxidized L-AA product. I'm wondering is there any good way to prevent vitamin C products from oxidizing?

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