Skin & Status
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free skin care · Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:37 pm

A co-worker of mine made an interesting comment today.

He is a man in his mid 40s, born and raised in South Korea. He has been in this country for 20 years.

He said he notices that all senior level male leaders in our organization tend to have 2 things in common - (1) they are almost all tall
(2) they all have clear, smooth skin, even older men.

I think I know what he's talking about, but sometimes his English terminology is not the most straightforward. I did clarify with him that he was not referring to skin color as in racial skin tones.

Do you ever notice any status differences among people and the condition of their skin?

BF

free skin care · Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:31 am

No, I don't think I have. However, underprivileged people tend to have more health problems which, of course, includes teeth and skin.

Interesting the comment was made by a Korean - Asians, in general, are very concerned with status. It's the reason why they are the largest consumers of luxury goods in the world. Height is also an issue - I lived in China for a while and every second ad on TV was for some kind of ridiculous gadget to make you grow taller.

Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:29 pm

Absolutely - people with less physical "detriments" have an advantage because they not perceived as having weaknesses. Just the name of the game. Sad

free skin care · Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:40 pm

Perception is reality. however inaccurate it might be.

free skin care · Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:00 pm

I noticed that most senior level male leaders use pleasant smelling perfume.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:29 am

I have absolutely noticed the skin-status thing, but I don't know which comes first. I have seen several members of high status groups with fantastic skin, and just assumed that they had more money to spend on products and procedures. But then older friends of mine who were in the service industry talked of looking too old and of being moved from their positions to other "more suitable" jobs - usually those which did not bring them in to contact with customers. I began to wonder if the reason high status workers got where they are was not at least in part due to their looks. It is a really gross idea. I cannot stomach the idea of an excellent employee being passed over because they age at a different rate than another. I have been told that law firms and even doctors have been told to have cosmetic surgery to convey the impression of youth, because while customers are thought to prefer experience, they are also thought to be more drawn to the more beautiful individual.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:00 am

alexes wrote:

I have been told that law firms and even doctors have been told to have cosmetic surgery to convey the impression of youth, because while customers are thought to prefer experience, they are also thought to be more drawn to the more beautiful individual.

That's pretty shocking. Although, I think inherently as humans, we are always drawn to what we perceive as most attractive. I think it has something to do with the "survival of the fittest" thing in nature. It happens in the animal kingdom as well - think of the mother killing the runt of the litter and the plumage that male birds have developed to lure a mate.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:19 am

sister sweets wrote:

Perception is reality. however inaccurate it might be.

Sad but true.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:12 pm

It's somewhat true depending on the field I think. My early years working were totally ruined by adult acne. Since it cleared up I've gotten a bad nose job and now that is holding me back. I've upgraded my skin care a lot since I am aging and the nose thing is a real problem. Had an interesting experience at work recently. I look like hell off hormones irregardless of what I do to my skin. Started a new job and had to go in to have an ID photo taken. Horrible photo, really scared me, so I went back on my pill after it was taken. The ID is so bad the receptionist came up to me the first day and gave it to me personally. Anyway, I showed up that week looking better, more rested, with makeup and new bangs. As I was walking in one day I overheard an HR say very loudly, "bottom feeder". I look that different on hormones and with makeup. I think the HR people think I went in and had Botox. Ageism is alive in and well in the workplace, for sure.

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:36 am

gretchen, that is awful. I hate that kind of behaviour. It seems like the worst kind of playground bullying. I have to agree that in nature there is a great deal of cruelty when it comes to appearance, but it just kills me that we, as supposedly rational creatures cannot rise above such petty thinking. I have seen one too many beautiful women treated badly by their employers, significant others and even families because of a supposed weight problem, or because they were "aging". As if they were getting older on purpose, to annoy everyone. Status should be earned, not awarded, I think, and should reflect more than such base and shallow considerations

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:41 am

Thats terrible, I'm glad I dont work in places like that, you have to see the shape I turn up for work in Laughing

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:09 pm

I forgot to add that an older lady commented on my skin saying it was beautiful and then asked how old I am. I didn't tell her, I'm age phobic and don't like to bring it up. She said later she thought she knew but wanted to be sure. I put up with this constantly last year when I worked at a home health agency run by a 65+ year old lady who let me know every day that hated me. A lot of the nurses were nice but they all alluded constantly to my age and probable perimenopausal condition. The first week the twenty something office manager said under her breath, "have everything done". I started the job off my hormones then went back on them because I don't function without estrogen. One older nurse said, "you've got to go off it". Very invasive. Whole office pretty much treated me like dirt. It was actually this experience that led me to this board. I read Suzanne Somer's book Ageless and got on here through a search for the Facemaster. Would looooove to make a visit to that office now.... Cool

free skin care · Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:59 pm

alexes wrote:

I have absolutely noticed the skin-status thing, but I don't know which comes first. I have seen several members of high status groups with fantastic skin, and just assumed that they had more money to spend on products and procedures. But then older friends of mine who were in the service industry talked of looking too old and of being moved from their positions to other "more suitable" jobs - usually those which did not bring them in to contact with customers. I began to wonder if the reason high status workers got where they are was not at least in part due to their looks. It is a really gross idea. I cannot stomach the idea of an excellent employee being passed over because they age at a different rate than another. I have been told that law firms and even doctors have been told to have cosmetic surgery to convey the impression of youth, because while customers are thought to prefer experience, they are also thought to be more drawn to the more beautiful individual.

Supposedly some elections are won on the basis of who is the better looking candidate.

free skin care · Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:08 pm

that would explain canadian politics

free skin care · Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:36 pm

Happens in America too.

free skin care · Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:54 pm

Hey Everyone,
Let's just take a moment and drift back to our high school days... for some, it might be a few years, for others (like myself) it might be a few decades...

Appearance was everything! Who were the popular kids? Mostly those w ith clear skin and a nice build. Who were your Homecoming Queens and cheerleaders? Who were student leaders?

If my memory serves me correctly (and I admit, it has been a long time since high school) the aforementioned people were considered attractive: they generally had great complexions, were in good physical shape (not overweight) and exuded self-confidence.

These people were generally deemed "successful."

Even as adults, and whether it is right or wrong, I think we are still judged on our appearances. It's what people see first!

free skin care · Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:29 am

In my high school it was the rich kids who had the status, and when I say rich, I mean elevators in their houses. Some were very over weight and some were not attractive. Many were mean and did awful things to kids they felt were lesser than themselves - the really poor kids. While skin condition was important, it seemed that cash was the real determining factor. That being said, the rich kids always had the money for the products to keep their skin at its best. The really poor kids did not.

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:53 am

It definitely matters how you look re work. In banking I identify w the sentiments of the other person who said lawyers and drs have pressure to look young. I would generally never have as a goal to "look younger" but would just want to look better looking - different thing. But when it comes to work I would say definitely I hope to look as young as possible - for the interview at least.
(((gretchen))) what disgraceful treatment you have had to deal with. Ageism just has to change. The days of retiring when you're 60 are OVER. Unless you want to and are wealthy enough to do so. These days 60 is still a vibrant age and with ageing populations there isn't a big enough tax base to support them for another 40 yrs or whatever they will live to.

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:23 am

TTD
You are so right. My folks are in their sixties and are so young and active, I can't imagine them being treated like they had to be put out to pasture. People are healthier these days than ever before, and living well, for longer. Why we are all pressured to look like teenagers I don't know. Especially women. Men seem to get at least some leeway when it comes to lines and wrinkles, but women? Forget it. If you have a grey hair or a wrinkle, you are past it. No wonder so many women try to keep themselves looking as young as possible. It isn't just vanity - we are treated dramatically differently when perceived of as "too old". We lose power. So many women of status have great skin, because they have too.

free skin care · Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:29 am

Several studies have found correlations between:

1. Beauty and income/professional success
2. Height and income/professional success
3. Weight and income/professional success

Sad but true Sad

free skin care · Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:49 am

TTD wrote:

(((gretchen))) what disgraceful treatment you have had to deal with. Ageism just has to change. The days of retiring when you're 60 are OVER. Unless you want to and are wealthy enough to do so. These days 60 is still a vibrant age and with ageing populations there isn't a big enough tax base to support them for another 40 yrs or whatever they will live to.

Thanks TTD I appreciate it. I am OK though and generally over it. I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico and there are some very conventional people here thanks to the influence of the hispanic population who have traditional values. I don't mean that in the wrong way. I dealt with similar problems when I lived in Salt Lake amongst the Mormons too. The difference is Salt Lake is a vain town; there is a laser center where you can get breast implants and Botox at the outdoor mall the Gateway. I read it's the largest laser center in the country. Anyway Albuquerque is pretty poor and uneducated so people don't really know what I've done to look younger; the knee jerk reaction is that I must've had Botox, which in town as poor as this would be considered wrong, given the economic conditions the country's been in etc. There is a lot of judgementalism. However if I wasn't working and went places looking all poor and ragged there would be judgement about that too. It's a very no win town.

I suppose my whole life I've tried to get away from my upbringing; I was raised in Midland, Texas the hometown of Dubya. Definitely I was raised around a lot of people consumed with status, not necessarily looks, although that has probably changed. My dad just left the area (thank god!!) and bought a house in Oro Valley just north of Tucson, Arizona. I never thought about the height part of professional success; I'm from such a short family. I'm so tiny (5'1 95-102 lbs) it does affect me, I must admit. I get a lot of negative comments. Ha I don't care. What does weight and height have to do with it. My dad has done very well for himself; he in no way fits the picture of traditional success though, which imho may be very overrated. Cool

free skin care · Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:25 pm

Gretchen
I hate how other people's judgements of you can impact your life - especially if you face it daily. It wears people out.
I think the "tall" thing may only be true for men. I am almost six feet tall, and let me tell you, it does not matter how feminine you are, men are threatened by it. It seems they feel my height somehow emasculates them. Sigh. I do not think tiny women would do well either, as they tend to be treated as if they are "cute" rather than being taken seriously. Status is a difficult thing, there are so many variables, including other people's backward assumptions.

free skin care · Sun Apr 11, 2010 3:16 pm

alexes wrote:

Gretchen
I hate how other people's judgements of you can impact your life - especially if you face it daily. It wears people out.

It does wear me out I must admit. Sad

I'm trying to not let it get to me. Hopefully in 5-10 years it won't be such a pain to be 40 something. The generation Y is fairly large, twice as many of them than there are of generation Xers. Since they already exhibit a high interest in self maintenance, beauty, fashion, and cosmetic surgery, they are the ones who can change the system. There is no way they are going to age like previous generations did and will not have any guilt about it either.
In a few years if things don't change I might draw from my background and try to find some way to become self employed. Either that or I will try to find jobs that put me in contact with fewer older people and few or no men. I'm currently working directly with a guy my age who is a long time smoker and has big bags under his eyes. That I look younger and am less ambitious upsets him; he is mean to me on daily basis.

free skin care · Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:08 pm

The real problem with this negative way of looking at people is that it turns business into a popularity contest, and very few popular people get that way because of some great skill. It disturbs me that doctors who may be incredibly good at their jobs may be sidelined for the handsome or pretty one who is less so. I don't care what their skin looks like or their height, I just want a good doctor. It is the same in every service industry I can think of. Beyond clean and courteous what I really want is proficiency at their job. Marketing has no place hurting people like this.

free skin care · Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:32 pm

If sales personnel at cosmetic counters do not have flawless skin, it really doesn't convince me that the brand works well.

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