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Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:05 am  |
Looks like the distributor for the Helioguard in the US is a place called Tri-K, but they appear to be a wholesaler with no clue about how to actually obtain the stuff. Interesting premise though.
I hadn't thought about the ZO/Cu problem...just bought a physical sunscreen (Devita) so maybe will insist the kids use it and find something else for me.
Foxe, I usually use the CPs in the morning, often followed by DMAE, and retin-a at night. I have DIY C that I will sometimes remember to apply in the middle of the day. I also layer on hemp oil at some point before doing massage/vaculifting.
I got the scar reduction kit which includes the 2x and I used that on my scars for about a month, then ran out. (Kit size was tiny.) I'm willing to get more and be patient, but would rather not spend $80 on something that has a low probability of effectiveness. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:22 am |
Per Nanci's newsletter regarding the CP and ZO sunscreen:
"I also want to mention (thank you summer2004 for the reminder!) that Copper Peptide should be used at night if you wear sun protection that contains Zinc Oxide. I've been back and forth on this subject with Dr. Pickart for months. I've applied sunscreen with Zinc Oxide over my CP for years without any issues at all and with nothing but great results. BUT Dr. Pickart told me that "SOME women say their pores became larger after using zinc oxide. Skin acids could release ionic zinc and this could block the copper effects". He also told me "I often tell clients to use CP Serum or a CP Cream under their sunscreen as a barrier". That sounds like a contridiction to me and he did not elaborate any more on the subject. So with that, I say better safe than sorry and use your Copper Peptide at night if you wear sunscreen or mineral makeup with zinc oxide. If you've been using it like I have, with no problems at all, you can continue to do the same." |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:15 am |
| sister sweets wrote: |
Star - Where do you purchase Helioguard 365?
I am not having luck finding a distributor.
Thanks.
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Good question Sweets, Dr. Pickart sent me the info on Helioguard, but I have not researched where it can be purchased. I think it is an active ingredient. It is more than likely available outside of the US, but I will see what I can find out. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:20 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Per Nanci's newsletter regarding the CP and ZO sunscreen:
"I also want to mention (thank you summer2004 for the reminder!) that Copper Peptide should be used at night if you wear sun protection that contains Zinc Oxide. I've been back and forth on this subject with Dr. Pickart for months. I've applied sunscreen with Zinc Oxide over my CP for years without any issues at all and with nothing but great results. BUT Dr. Pickart told me that "SOME women say their pores became larger after using zinc oxide. Skin acids could release ionic zinc and this could block the copper effects". He also told me "I often tell clients to use CP Serum or a CP Cream under their sunscreen as a barrier". That sounds like a contridiction to me and he did not elaborate any more on the subject. So with that, I say better safe than sorry and use your Copper Peptide at night if you wear sunscreen or mineral makeup with zinc oxide. If you've been using it like I have, with no problems at all, you can continue to do the same." |
On ZO & CPs - Since they compete, it is better to apply CPs in the PM if using ZO. The zinc will deactivate the CPs which inhibits rebuilding and repair. So if you use both together you may never really know this. You would see no adverse reaction. Just little to no results from CPs.
Much the same with topical Vit C which becomes inactive when using at the same time as CPs. This happens, but it would be impossible to know it unless you understand the science. So I go on Dr. P's recommendations, because I do not proclaim to understand the science.
Having said that and given that ZO may contribute to enlarging pore size, it would be better to use a pure Titanium Dixoide based SS. That is why I use DayCover. Also applying CPs in the AM add additional UV Protection. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:35 pm |
I will use an MMU that has ZnO in it but don't worry about it reacting or binding w/ the CPs since mineral powders are inert materials and just sit on the surface of the skin. (Inhaling them is more problematic).
Lately, though, I've been trying some DIY Vit Cs in the AM and just using the CPs at night, so nothing to worry about then. Occasionally I do use CPs in the AM, and have not found any problems using my MMU for SS over them.
I like the sound of this Helioguard SS. I do need to find out more about it. Some reviews would be great – anyone that can report??
Helioguard 365 - Natural Sunscreen for UV-A Skin Protection Against Photo-Aging
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Helioguard 365 is a natural UVA sunscreen from Porphyra Umbilicalis
The principal etiologic factor in premature skin aging is UVA. In contrast to UVB, UVA is not much dependent on daytime and season and penetrates rather well through clouds and window glass. Our skin needs therefore help against the daily exposure to UVA.
Cosmetic ingredients that we use every day should be absolutely safe. Mycosporine like amino acids, UVA sunscreens produced by certain algae, corals and zooplankton, are a natural and safe alternative to synthetic UVA sunscreens. These organisms that live in shallow water or at the beach where they are exposed to extreme UV radiation, produce the most powerful UV-absorbing substances in nature. Mindy found in the red alga Porphyra umbilicalis, better known as Nori, a traditional sea vegetable, a rich source of mycosporine like amino acids.
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:37 pm |
| sistersweets wrote: |
| foxe - Can I ask why you make the suggestion for this combo...the Day Cover PLUS a P&R Lotion at the END of the day would be a really good combo. |
Sis – it has always been recommended (and I can attest from my own experience) that topping off the Suntanning Lotion with the Body Lotion at the end of the day does wonders for settling down any redness you might get. Never red or pink the next day.
But, since the Body Lotion would not work for the face – I think one of the P & R Lotions would be the next best bet. They have about the same amount of CPs in them as the Body Lotion (on the mild side) and are meant for the face. There’s one for normal/oily skin and one for drier skin. I also think just following a night time routine of applying your regular CPs might be just fine, but the P & R Lotions/Creams have some additional ingredients over the serums that look pretty moisturizing – so it’s just an option. For me - maybe just my serum and topping it w/ emu would work?? Hmmmm
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| And while I'm at it - The difference between using Exfol cream and the Exfol Serum: Do you make the choice based upon whether your skin is dry or oily? I want to get this too. Skin Bio has a combination pack but it has the cream in it and does not give you the choice of getting the serum which I think would be better for me. I wonder if I called they would switch it out for me. |
I just received a sample of the Exfol Serum. The cream is suppose to be for drier skin and that’s why I did go with the serum. I now want to try the cream because it has a lot more ‘goodies’ in it. The serum is pretty watery and I haven’t figured out the best way to apply it yet. I also want to try out the new Lac 10. May have to place another order soon.
BTW – I have a sample size bottle of the Two Timing Tightener and really like it. I also have a different brand of a 3% DMAE and can say the SB TTT is much nicer. TTT is more serum like than the other bottle I have and it does contain some nice ingredients. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:28 pm |
| I got my Super GHF cream and a sample of CP accelerator,my question is,I put the retin a,then CP.Do I put the accelerator before or after the CP? |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:29 pm |
| Leggy 61 wrote: |
| I got my Super GHF cream and a sample of CP accelerator,my question is,I put the retin a,then CP.Do I put the accelerator before or after the CP? |
Is this the NCN CP accelerator? If so, that goes on after your CP. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:33 pm |
| Yes,thanks Riley you are to fast. |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:48 pm |
| Leggy 61 wrote: |
| Yes,thanks Riley you are to fast. |
LOL! I just happened by at the right time, Leggy! |
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Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:01 pm |
thanks Hermosa ----
Found this on the dr.brandt.com site:
dr brandt® UV SPF 30 face
1.00 oz Formulated to provide advanced broad spectrum UVA (PA+++) protection against UVB rays (SPF 30). Dr. Brandt advanced sun care helps decrease pigmentation induced by UV exposure; preventing photo-aging. Designed with dry-touch technology to absorb quickly, leaving the skin smooth and soft with a shine-free finish.
helps prevent photo-aging while protecting the skin against other environmental hazards
hypoallergenic and fragrance free!
water resistant for 80 minutes
It lists helioguard 365 under ingredients and no ZO. It's $35.00 for not a whole lot 
Editing to add ingredients
Key Ingredients:
•Detoxophane - swiss garden cress sprout that helps defend against pollution and other environmental hazards.
•Dry Touch Technology - latest formulation in an oil-free technology with a soft touch powdery finish.
•Helioguard 365 - natural UVA filter for daily protection that protects the skin from damaging UVA rays which cause photo aging.
•Sepicalm VG - nymphaea that helps decrease pigmentation induced by UV exposure, preventing photo aging.
Full ingredient list
WATER (AQUA), HOMOSALATE, STYRENE/ACRYLATES COPOLYMER, ETHYLHEXYL SALICYLATE (OCTISALATE), POLYMNIA SONCHIFOLIA ROOT JUICE, BUTYLOCTYL SALICYLATE, BUTYL METHOXYDIBENZOYLMETHANE (AVOBENZONE), BENZOPHENONE-3 (OXYBENZONE), OCTOCRYLENE, HYDRATED SILICA, NYMPHAEA ALBA FLOWER EXTRACT, SODIUMPALMITOY LPROLIN E, DIMETHICONE, VP/HEXADECENE COPOLYMER, POLYESTER-8, TRIDECETH-6, ETHYLHEXYL STEARATE, CAPRYLYLMETHICONE, PEG - 100 STEARATE, GLYCERYL STEARATE, PHENOXYETHANOL, SODIUM POLYACRYLATE, DIMETHYL CAPRAMIDE, BEHENYL ALCOHOL, TR IMETHYLSILOXYSILICAT E, ETHYLHEXYLGLYCE RIN, XA NTHANGUM, METHYLPARABEN, ALCOHOLDENAT, DISODIUMEDTA, BHT, BUTYLPARABEN, PROPYLPARABEN, THYLPARABEN, ISOBUTYLPARABEN, LEPIDIUM SATIVUM SPROUT EXTRACT, LECITHIN, GLYCERIN, SODIUM LACTATE, IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE, PORPHYRAUMBILICALIS EXTRACT, PALMITOYL TRIPEPTIDE-28
Star - whatever you come up with for helioguard sources please let us know.
Do you mind sharing what mineral makeup you use? I don't use this often but have been using one from NCN when I do. I'm sure it has ZO. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:54 am |
A couple of questions here.
Firstly is there anything wrong with using a chemical sunscreen with CP's? I'm only using CP's at night at this stage and Exfol Serum in the AM.
Foxe or Star Model...I've been using SkinSignals for my face with CP Night Eyes. Then I've been using BND on my neck, chest and breasts, and TriReduction on my arms and legs. I'm thinking though that I want the elastin benefits of SS all over. So is it okay and even better to use the SS everywhere? |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:57 am |
| Also I thought I'd share that a short while ago I was having what I think were the uglies. My cheeks became all bumpy with hard small lumps. Anyway that now seems to be clearing up. Still a few bumps, but much better than before. I didn't cut back on my CP usage, as I wanted to get through it asap and was willing to deal with it for a while. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:11 pm |
| Mishey wrote: |
A couple of questions here.
Firstly is there anything wrong with using a chemical sunscreen with CP's? I'm only using CP's at night at this stage and Exfol Serum in the AM. |
Dr Pickart is NOT a fan of chemical SS at all (he has quite a few pages of information on his website just devoted to this topic and sun protection/health anyway - makes for some long reading material)
After reading his information and quite a bit more in other places, I am no longer a fan of chemical SS either. I won't tell you you can't use it, though. I don't think it interfers with anything. But, you might want to educate yourself on it a little bit - try reading this links.
The Chemical Sunscreen Health Disaster
| Quote: |
| Foxe or Star Model...I've been using SkinSignals for my face with CP Night Eyes. Then I've been using BND on my neck, chest and breasts, and TriReduction on my arms and legs. I'm thinking though that I want the elastin benefits of SS all over. So is it okay and even better to use the SS everywhere? |
I'm sure that can be used all over. I think the cream versions just go on easier, though. I'd top the SS with a biological healing oil (BHO) like emu or squalane, too. They help the serums penetrate easier. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:15 pm |
| Mishey wrote: |
| Also I thought I'd share that a short while ago I was having what I think were the uglies. My cheeks became all bumpy with hard small lumps. Anyway that now seems to be clearing up. Still a few bumps, but much better than before. I didn't cut back on my CP usage, as I wanted to get through it asap and was willing to deal with it for a while. |
Glad to hear you worked your way thru this. Hope it keeps improving for you. |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:54 pm |
| Mishey wrote: |
| Foxe or Star Model...I've been using SkinSignals for my face with CP Night Eyes. Then I've been using BND on my neck, chest and breasts, and TriReduction on my arms and legs. I'm thinking though that I want the elastin benefits of SS all over. So is it okay and even better to use the SS everywhere? |
Mishey, I actually think your routine sounds great. I would probably reserve the Skin Signals for my face and continue using the other CPs on your body. They too will build elastin. You may want to add a drop or 2 to your other CPs for an added bonus! 
I usually apply Super CP Serum lightly on my body after showering, then lightly follow with the Body Lotion or Tri-Red Cream. At night I apply LacSal to my arms and legs. Just received my Lactic Power 10 that I am going to try on my body. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:51 pm |
| Since I am using the super GHK copper cream and it is the milder of them all,can I use it under the eyes or do I need to purchase something else,if so what would that be? |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:22 pm |
| Leggy - I know the answer to this one - You CAN use Super GHK around your eyes. I expect you should probably alternate days to start. This is what I'm going to get for my eyes too. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:39 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Leggy - I know the answer to this one - You CAN use Super GHK around your eyes. I expect you should probably alternate days to start. This is what I'm going to get for my eyes too. |
Leggy, for the days that you do NOT use the Super GHK under your eyes, make sure to put the CP Accelerator on under your eyes anyway...it will form a film that that will keep the CPs in other areas of your face from migrating up to the eye area.
I had a HORRID reaction under my eyes with CPs, and Nanci suggested that I do this should I ever decided to try them again. (I was only using Super GHK under my eyes, but stronger CPs on other parts of my face) |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:59 pm |
| Thanks S.S.,I am so new to CP's.I have read and read getting as much infor as I can,but am still confused abit.When someone else has been there and done that,it so reassuring.I learned something tonight,see I thought with what I'm using that I could use it every night under the eyes with no worries because it so mild,Oh I don't want to get the uglies.I am using it every night on my face and neck. |
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:44 am |
Thanks for your replies Foxe and Star Model. 
I guess it might be time to start topping the CP's with my emu oil. I didn't want to make it penetrate too much at the start, but ya gotta start sometime don't ya.
And that's a great idea to add alittle SS into the other products. A couple of drops is going to be difficult though as it's a spray. I'll have a go at it.
Please let us know how the Lactic Power 10 goes for you. |
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:43 am |
| Leggy 61 wrote: |
| Thanks S.S.,I am so new to CP's.I have read and read getting as much infor as I can,but am still confused abit.When someone else has been there and done that,it so reassuring.I learned something tonight,see I thought with what I'm using that I could use it every night under the eyes with no worries because it so mild,Oh I don't want to get the uglies.I am using it every night on my face and neck. |
Every time I hear about fear of the dreaded uglies, I have to smile. Actually, I have had them too and they are subtle and temporary, not as horrible as they sound.
To explain a little better, if moving too fast with CPs using too much or stronger products, there can be a temporary loosening of the elastins in the skin before it starts to tighten. To avoid this happening, it is best to go with the mildest products first and move up slowly. If it is does happen, backing off from CPs altogether for a few days will allow the skin to rebound. The "uglies" is only a short-lived temporary thing.
The eyes though Leggy, DO need to be handle in a much gentler way. Avoid strong CPs and use your GHK. The uglies are unlikely using GHK. You are on the right track. Then move up to Night Eyes before trying CP Serum. The progress is slow, but in a years time taking this gradual approach, my eyes have improved dramatically. But the actual change itself is subtle before you notice the cumulative effects.
As for the other kind of uglies that some may be referring to, this is buried damage that may be pushing up. The only way to truly remodel your skin is to allow the damage to slowly push up, using your exfoliation methods and hydroxy acids to abrade and remove it. Once the damage is degraded, CPs will rebuild and remodel the the skin.
It is a matter of "Breakdown/Buildup". That is TRUE skin remodeling.
Hope that Helps! |
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:30 am |
| Star Model,thank you that makes sense,like Obagi out with the old in with new. More questions.I am using acid free exfoliate serum and micro cloth,is this enough to exfoliate or do I need something else?I wash and use my AALS and than retin a/blender,wait 30 mins super GHF CP cream,CP accelerator, and than bio active cream.I use the acid free in the morning.I am also using ZO oclipse as my S.S. I don't get very much peeling from the RA as I have used it for over a year. |
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