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erg
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Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:00 am      Reply with quote
helenjean wrote:
thank you foxe and sis.

I am using the ghk serum and diluting as per instructions on page 1. even though I am diluting should I do everynight or everyother?


Hi helenjean,
As sistersweets mentioned, I would not dilute the ghk serum. It is so mild. I believe the dilution schedule posted was for CP serum.

Someone else can jump in about AALS and/or retin-a (I don't use either). But just looking at your routine - I think you may be exfoliating a little too much (C serum, dry brush, exfol cream, retin a).

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:02 am      Reply with quote
erg wrote:
helenjean wrote:
thank you foxe and sis.

I am using the ghk serum and diluting as per instructions on page 1. even though I am diluting should I do everynight or everyother?


Hi helenjean,
As sistersweets mentioned, I would not dilute the ghk serum. It is so mild. I believe the dilution schedule posted was for CP serum.


This is correct. No need to dilute the GHK as it's the mildest CP. The dilution schedule I posted on page 1 was for the CP Serum I started with. I also used that for the Super CP Serum. (Creams can be diluted a different way, but the GHKs really don't need to be diluted)

Quote:
Someone else can jump in about AALS and/or retin-a (I don't use either). But just looking at your routine - I think you may be exfoliating a little too much (C serum, dry brush, exfol cream, retin a).


Good thought erg. This might be too much exfoliation. I had been using both a hydroxy acid and retin a together for a while, but now think less is more. Perhaps alternate evenings with these would work well enough for you. How is your skin handling all of this right now?

What are your skin issues and goals helenjean?

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:44 am      Reply with quote
hi foxe,
My main issue is sagging under jaw and marionette lines, and saggy eyelids.
Can I use my ghk serum everynight or should I start everyother?
Also is it good to put copper serum on pre aals, if so how long do I wait before I use the aals.
Thankyou
helen

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:14 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
sister sweets wrote:
I would not use Retin a with the ghk copper. Acids and ghk do not play nice together.


I know this is what Skinbiology recommends. However, I have applied GHK, wait probably 30-60 minutes, and then applied my RA on top. I loved the results with this combo. My broken caps didn't look nearly as red the next morning.


I've always kinda questioned the necessity of separating the two by 12 hours myself. I think most of the retinoids have a higher pH than the hydroxy acids do - somewhere around 6. I know I checked on the pH of my Retin A Micro at the time and it was around that high. If the pH is that high, it shouldn't break down the GHK at all.

The pH of the hydroxy acids, on the other hand, are much lower. Low pH acids, work best at that low pH. This quote from Paula Begoun can explain it better:

AHAs work best at concentrations of 5% to 10% with a pH of 3 to 4, and their effectiveness diminishes as you go above a pH of 4.5. BHA works best at concentrations of between 1% and 2%, and at an optimal pH of 3, diminishing in effectiveness as you go past a pH of 4. Both AHAs and BHA lose their effectiveness as a product's pH goes up or the concentration of the ingredient goes down. (Source: Dermatologic Surgery, February 2005, pages 149-154 and Cosmetic Dermatology, October 2001, pages 15-1Cool.

It is the lower pH of hydroxy acids that can cause the GHK to break down. Best to use them on opposite ends of the day.

But, with retinoids - if their pH is higher (which some of them are), then there *might* not be a problem using them w/ the GHK.

helen - your routine you mentioned would work fine. Just wait about 20-30 minutes after applying the exfol so it has time to work on its own. I think your nighttime routine is fine, but maybe wait on the emu if you can. Retin A might work better if left alone for about 45 minutes before applying anything on top.

And, to answer your other question about wait time after applying the GHK serum > just wait long enough for it to absorb (usually about 10 minutes).

Quote:
So my routine will be CP , ligth stim, retin a, emu oil.
am. dry brush, vaculift, wash, exfol cream, (how long to wait?) c serum, (has e oil in it so dont need additional moisrturiser) sunscreen (is 20 factor ok) makeup.

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:28 am      Reply with quote
helenjean wrote:
hi foxe,
My main issue is sagging under jaw and marionette lines, and saggy eyelids.
Can I use my ghk serum everynight or should I start everyother?
Also is it good to put copper serum on pre aals, if so how long do I wait before I use the aals.
Thankyou
helen


Use the GHK nightly, but watch your skin and see how it reacts. Skin that is not use to CPs can get looser or show a little wrinkling. It just takes a while for most people's skin to get use to these CPs as they are strong remodeling agents. I've rarely heard of problems w/ the GHK as it is very mild. And most problems I've heard of are in the eye area. The skin in that area is very thin and delicate and can react stronger to the CPs. I never had a problem w/ the GHK though (even in the eye area). I did see some 'uglies' in spot treatments with stronger CPs, though. I defintely knew it was from the CPs, because I was spot treating. And I would see looseness in just that one or two spots - wierd. Initially, when I saw that, I would back off on the CPs, not use them for a few days, and then start back slower. The uglies would go away doing that. And the improvements got better, too. I no longer get any uglies as my skin is very use to all strengths of CPs.

It is good to use the CPs before the AALS - it helps with penetration.

With your issues, you will want to try the new CPs that have the elastin and collagen in them. They are designed for extra firming of the skin over and above what the CPs can give themselves. They offer a serum in the Skin Signals Serum. That would be a good next step. The Skin Signals Cream also has the collagen and elastin, but ALSO has GHK in it (along w/ 2nd gen CPs). You get the benefits of both with that one.

For your eyes, try the Night Eyes Premier next (or the Skin Signals Cream). That's the one I moved up to from the Super GHK for my eyes and I saw fantastic results doing that. It's much stronger than the GHK, so move slow with it (use less of it or go every other night). You may not need to move slowly with the Skin Signals Cream, though. It seems to be pretty gentle.

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:07 pm      Reply with quote
thank you foxe so I will use it undiluted everynight, would you say 10 mins before AALS then retin a after the AALS.

thankyou
helen

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:23 pm      Reply with quote
sorry foxe ignore my last post you did answer my question.

thankyou
helen

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Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:55 pm      Reply with quote
Hi all, am new here but would value your opinion...I currently use RA at night, along with a moisturizer. In the morning I alternate between Obagi 20% c serum and Osmotics Blue Copper. After reading here I see that my CP is a first gen CP and may be weak and not work as well with my RA. My question is, should I finish up my product and start with the SkinBio GHK? I'm currently with uglies...sagging skin and fine lines under my eyes and on my chin...I'm Trying to stay positive and keep going with my Blue Copper till it subsides. My large sample of it is almost gone, so looking for some opinions on what to use next?
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Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:09 pm      Reply with quote
I would only use copper peptides from Skinbiology. Depending upon your skin type - you can use ghk cream and/or serum to start. I like both for my somewhat oily skin (no acne).
Also I would put some time between using the CP and retin A. I would say at least a half hour. I'm all for maintaining maximum effectiveness of my cp's.!

From there you can graduate to Skin Signals Serum and Skin Signals Cream. I use both 1st and second generations and like them both - for different reasons.

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Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:29 am      Reply with quote
Foxe do you think it's possible to get the 'uglies' with the Skin Signals creamwith it's ingredients? I know it generally takes a while to see results but sometimes I think I see improvement and then it seems my neck for example looks saggier or I look rougher. Things looked good at first and then I started getting sort of the odd scab/patch on my face not really blemishes- looks like little burns or patches maybe where skin needs to fall off but nothing hurts..it just looks crap...is this normal?
I am only using a thin layer of Lacsal in morning and Skin Signals cream at night -the body lotion daily too.
I might get the Two Timing Tightener to put on top-maybe it will speed things up...? If you do end up loosening the skin with the uglies can you bounce from it or is the process delayed and diminished as a result?
perhaps it's because I am not applying anything emollient after like EMu oil- maybe I should be? I just thought the skin signals was more of a cream and ok on it's own?
Would appreciate any of your great advice as always Smile

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Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:52 pm      Reply with quote
Pollyanna - what your're describing does sound like the uglies. I never saw that w/ the Skin Signals Cream, though, since I had gotten over any sort of uglies from using them for a long time (my skin was use to them).

I would think you would bounce back from it and the TTT is a great product to help you through that stage as it gives a temporary tightening.

Since your skin is not use to the CPs just yet, perhaps use the Skin Signals Cream every other day for a while or put the emu oil on first (under the SSC) until your skin is use to it. Do this for a few weeks and watch for reactions when you start using it full strength on a daily basis again.

I wouldn't think the SSC would cause the reaction you've had since its a fairly mild CP, but everyone is different.

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Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:57 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
Pollyanna - what your're describing does sound like the uglies. I never saw that w/ the Skin Signals Cream, though, since I had gotten over any sort of uglies from using them for a long time (my skin was use to them).

I would think you would bounce back from it and the TTT is a great product to help you through that stage as it gives a temporary tightening.

Since your skin is not use to the CPs just yet, perhaps use the Skin Signals Cream every other day for a while or put the emu oil on first (under the SSC) until your skin is use to it. Do this for a few weeks and watch for reactions when you start using it full strength on a daily basis again.

I wouldn't think the SSC would cause the reaction you've had since its a fairly mild CP, but everyone is different.

Thanks Foxe Smile
I actually called the company just after posting this and got some good advice. I think I'll just push through with this as it seems I'm doing everything right and deal with the uglies as they aren't so bad but I will get the TTT soon too to boost and once I get adjusted to the SSC in a few monthes I think I will move up to the stronger serum version aswith the emu for support. They suggested the Tri-reduction as the next cream but I would have thought the serum version of Skin Signals would have been better for the tightening and elastin..
Also I think when I put the vit c on in the AM 30 min after the Lacsal my face seems to get a tanned look and go a bit dirty or orangy looking so maybe that isn't helping either and causing discolouration and blemishes and I should alternate days?! but I can't be sure..
Ahhh so much to learn! Laughing

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Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:38 am      Reply with quote
Hi CP sisters,

Just checking in to let you know my CP progress.
I've been using skin biology folligen on my eyelashes now since the start of the new year..and want to report... I think it works great. I'm noticing my eyelashes look way more fringe-like. I have been using my lattise a few times a week as well..but was using it for many months before the cp's and they were about as good as they could get. Now the addition of folligen has made a difference. They're thicker. I ran out of Lattise a few weeks ago. I did order some careprost just to use a few times a week as an insurance policy.
Also..been using the two time tightener with my skin signals cream in the a.m. and skin signals serum in the p.m. and.. my face and neck look pretty tight.
As for my eyes..I've been using my sample of GHK on them..and also am trying out the squalene with high retinol as well. I notice them lifted too.
On my body..I'm applying super cop when on wet skin just out of the shower.. followed by my favorite moisturizer. I think I'll be able to report back soon on how the cp's are working on my body.
Overall, for me, it seems to have taken cp's a long time to go into full effect. But it has been worth it. Also..much trial and error in product selection. Thank goodness for the sample sizes.

Also. got to say..cp's don't really affect my skin texture like I want. Obaji seems to do a better job on that. So trying to figure how I'm going to incorporate Obaji into my routine to get all the total results I want.

what I didn't like: Protect and restore body lotion with so called unscented pheronomes..it was stinky.

Im going to try the peptides for nails just to see how it works.

Anyway..that is it for now...I'll report back.
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Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:08 pm      Reply with quote
What folligen product are you using on your lashes... TIA.

hotdocgirl wrote:
Hi CP sisters,

Just checking in to let you know my CP progress.
I've been using skin biology folligen on my eyelashes now since the start of the new year..and want to report... I think it works great. I'm noticing my eyelashes look way more fringe-like. I have been using my lattise a few times a week as well..but was using it for many months before the cp's and they were about as good as they could get. Now the addition of folligen has made a difference. They're thicker. I ran out of Lattise a few weeks ago. I did order some careprost just to use a few times a week as an insurance policy.
Also..been using the two time tightener with my skin signals cream in the a.m. and skin signals serum in the p.m. and.. my face and neck look pretty tight.
As for my eyes..I've been using my sample of GHK on them..and also am trying out the squalene with high retinol as well. I notice them lifted too.
On my body..I'm applying super cop when on wet skin just out of the shower.. followed by my favorite moisturizer. I think I'll be able to report back soon on how the cp's are working on my body.
Overall, for me, it seems to have taken cp's a long time to go into full effect. But it has been worth it. Also..much trial and error in product selection. Thank goodness for the sample sizes.

Also. got to say..cp's don't really affect my skin texture like I want. Obaji seems to do a better job on that. So trying to figure how I'm going to incorporate Obaji into my routine to get all the total results I want.

what I didn't like: Protect and restore body lotion with so called unscented pheronomes..it was stinky.

Im going to try the peptides for nails just to see how it works.

Anyway..that is it for now...I'll report back.

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Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:20 pm      Reply with quote
SS,
I've been using Folligen Cream. I bought a super fine paint brush at Joann's to apply it to my lash line.
It has taken two or more months..just like they say..but I can tell a difference now. with lattise..my right eyelashes were longer than my left eye. Now they feel the same and thicker. And without mascara on..they look black and fringe like. If you buy your cp's from skin biology ..I'd get the sample size of folligen cream. The four ounces is too big and most likely get old before I use it all. just a dab does the trick.
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Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:33 am      Reply with quote
Help I think I may have the uglies, I dont know if its a coincidence but my eyelids and eyes are looking older, so is the rest of my face.
I have been diluting the ghk serum with distilled water and putting it on everyother day (I have used it about 6 times now)
Is it possible to have this happen so early and as I am using it everyother day and diluting it thought I would not have a problem.
My face was beginning to look good before this, glowing and tighter skin.
So what do I do, do I carry on or lay off?
I know I will never get anywhere with it if I lay off.
Encouragment and advice much appreciated.

helenxxx

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Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:58 am      Reply with quote
Hi Helen..

I just looked in the mirror and saw a wrinkle under my eye that's never been there before too! I've been using super GHK under my eyes. I'm going to stop. I have to say, the rest of my face and neck look young after using cp's..but I think another avid EDS poster had damage done around her eyes by cp's..and I'm not chancing it. I think I'm going to order some elastiderm off Amazon today. Msny of my trusted sources say it really works.
As for the uglies on my face..I've had a very mild case of them..and stopped for a few days and they went away and things then tightened up..I'm just nervous about the tender skin around my eyes!
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Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:18 am      Reply with quote
Wow, I am surprised since you are going so slowly that you got uglies. I would take a few days off from CPs then try again (diluted - and/or maybe apply a biological oil first). The uglies happen when you break things down faster than the CPs can repair.

How much are you using... pea sized or more?


I have had no uglies (5 months in) but I do not apply anywhere near my eyes (not my problem area).

One thing that is working for me to prevent uglies... I think... is that I only use CPs M-F and take the weekend off. I also alternate between two different kinds of CPs (Skin Signals Cream and CP serum).

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Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:58 am      Reply with quote
Taking the weekend off is a good idea. I was doing that for a while..and noticed it actually gave my face time to tighten up. I need to go back to that and see what happens. excellent suggestion.
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Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:01 am      Reply with quote
Not sure if I should start a new thread on this... but wondering who uses Two Timing Tightener from Skin Biology? Do you use it every day?

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Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:29 am      Reply with quote
I've just started using it the past few weeks..I think it works. Don't know about you..but there are so many products to layer. I find myself using it at least once a day.
In all, have my cp's, squalene with retinol... retin A, and Two Time Tightener. I also like to use Patricia Wexlers serum on my face too. So, Sometimes..I don't want to layer all of that. So I have to pick and choose.
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Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:10 am      Reply with quote
hotdocgirl wrote:
I've just started using it the past few weeks..I think it works. Don't know about you..but there are so many products to layer. I find myself using it at least once a day.
In all, have my cp's, squalene with retinol... retin A, and Two Time Tightener. I also like to use Patricia Wexlers serum on my face too. So, Sometimes..I don't want to layer all of that. So I have to pick and choose.


Yes, this is what I am running into now. How to layer everything. What do you guys apply after CPs?

Here is my routine now: (M-F only)

AM:
Alternate CP serum or Skin Signals Cream
and????

PM:
LacSal (love!!)
Skin Actives Be Kind Rewind Cream
and hour or so later avocado oil

edit to add: I was using NCN CP acelerator - but it seems like it would be better for night time use. Even though my skin is dry, it is a bit heavy

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Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:01 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks to Foxe and the customer service at Skin Biology I'm ready to put in a new order.

I have one question for CP users - do you recommend the Lacsal Serum or Cream?

I do still have some oily skin and occasional breakouts - but at the same time I'm in my 50's and like to have a little moisture.

Which is everyone's favorite? Thanks in advance!
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Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 pm      Reply with quote
One more question for around the eyes - Night Eyes OR GHK?

I've read this entire thread - whew! I started getting somewhat confused when 1st and 2nd generation started getting thrown in around thread 26 . . .

Which do you guy like best for eyes, specifically to firm the eyelid?

Thank you!
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Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:27 pm      Reply with quote
I figured out a win-win. I ordered the Lacsal cream and got the Lacsal Serum as a free bonus, so I can try both.

I also got Night Eyes Premiere.

I already have the Super CP Serum, will report progress!
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