Skin Biology's Copper Peptides
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free skin care · Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:29 pm

Boy - lots of questions and I'm so glad to see others helping out here!(thanks)

packratmack wrote:

How long from the production date should a bottle of folligen be good before it expires? I use so little of it, that I guess it will go bad before it is finished. Thanks.

SB has always stated that the CPs have been tested and found to still be good after 5 years. I have found that the creams' base tends to break down a bit - esp in hot weather. It might be a good idea (for the creams) to keep a small amt in use and store the rest in the 'fridge. OTH - I've never had a problem with the serums nor the creams in the airless pumps.

rileygirl wrote:

Just got an email from Skinbiology. They said it seemed the SS Cream may be too strong for my skin, to stop for a few days, and then try again in a less obvious spot on the same area to see if I still get the same reaction. If I did, they said to just continue with the GHK serum, as the cream had more chemicals than the serum, and also contains the 2nd gen CP's. I'll give my skin a break and try again on Monday to see what happens

Glad you got a quick reply. let us know how it goes.

DarkMoon wrote:

OK, I had one of those nights, not enough sleep. I am confused also what will GHK actually accomplish for our skin? I am just totally confused all over again, then again brain is at about half normal function. Rolling Eyes

The GHK is good at a lot of things that the 2nd gen CPs are, but is not as strong (and definitely milder, which is good for sensitive skin). The GHK will take longer to do the same thing, in other words. Also, the GHK can't be used together w/ an acid since it's a more fragile ingredient and might break down.

erg wrote:

Because there is debate, I have been using both forms of CPs (in the form of CP serum and SS Cream which has both generations). I would like to try GHK to see how that works as well.

Erg – a few posters on the SB forum are using the GHK for a maintenance product after their extensive remodeling (acne scars). It’s good for that and for a beginning CP, IMO. It is strong enough to do some remodeling on its own, but it will just take longer than the 2nd gen CPs. And it doesn’t play nice w/ the exfoliators like AHA and BHA which help speed up the remodeling process for the 2nd gen CPs. It’s all in what goals people are looking for and what type of skin they have.

hyacynthgirl wrote:

I don't know if this been asked and answered, but after a while it all gets muddled. I have the LacSal. But, I use a microfiber or washcloth to clean my face. On top of that I use C in the morning (CPs at night) and Lightstim. Add in any occasionals (dermawand/violet ray, or whatever may be exfoliating), and how much is too much? I gave up the facial dry brushing when I started using the cloth in earnest. SO, do I still use the LacSal? It seems to me the manual exfoliation would be enough. BTW, I have pretty thick, combo skin. Not sensitive. TIA. You guys are brilliant!

Not everyone needs to use an exfoliant like the hydroxy acids. If what you’re using now works – stick with it. If, in the future, you feel like you need a little extra ‘oomph’, then try the lacsal at that time.

Also - good point about the MSM. I would never have connected the two, but it makes some sense. For me – I just shave occasionally (yep – I’m a member of the Shavin ’ Mavin’ s club) and that’s good enough for the peach fuzz I have. I haven’t really noticed that it grows any faster than before or that I have a lot more of it than before. But I did notice it cropping up more about 5 years ago (before I started using CPs). I suspect hormones are what causes that as I was approaching peri-menopause.
I only started shaving about 4 years ago – after starting the L2K line (and taking pictures for Kandis – the close-ups really showed the hair!) I think I shave about once or twice/month. I tweeze the darn, course-dark hairs when those pop up, though. I’d rather pull those out so they have less chance to grow back. (and, I don’t get more of those than normal, either)

Pollyanna wrote:

Not sure which would be better for me emu or squalane? I was wondering about the retinol in squalane option and would that be a good bonus for my neck since I'm not at this point incorporating any retinol products in my routine..?

Retinol used in products like a moisturizer is for emollient purposes. It won’t work like a plain retinol product would, but will provide extra moisturizing. At least that’s what I remember reading about – correct me if I’m wrong. So – the retinol in squalane might be a more moisturizing product over the emu. Maybe get one and get a sample of the other?

free skin care · Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:49 am

thanks foxe Smile

I ended up getting retinol/squalene combo anyhow!

ok these posts I just found on the middle-ageless blog (great blog though!)regarding too much exfoliation being bad for the skin and DMAE being bad in the long term and what the 'uglies' really are.... now making me question everything I'm doing or about to do ugh Sad

after ordering 2 bottle of TTT and more lacsal... and starting up daily body brushing again in conjunction with Protect and Restore cream!SO CONFUSED!!! Rolling Eyes

http://www.middle-ageless.com/2009/10/can-exfoliation-damage-skin.html

http://www.middle-ageless.com/2011/03/dmae-does-it-or-doesnt-it-improve-skin.html

free skin care · Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:55 pm

When it comes to exfoliation, there are two camps, the fors and againsts. Isn't 302 skincare against exfoliation and they don't advise the use of any type of acid?

I definitely belong to the "for" camp. I believe that ridding the skin of dead skin cells is important.

free skin care · Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:45 pm

Keliu wrote:

When it comes to exfoliation, there are two camps, the fors and againsts. Isn't 302 skincare against exfoliation and they don't advise the use of any type of acid?

I definitely belong to the "for" camp. I believe that ridding the skin of dead skin cells is important.

No, 302 was find with using the skin scrapper, which is a form of exfoliation. They were against acids.

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:55 pm

Keliu wrote:

When it comes to exfoliation, there are two camps, the fors and againsts. Isn't 302 skincare against exfoliation and they don't advise the use of any type of acid?

I definitely belong to the "for" camp. I believe that ridding the skin of dead skin cells is important.

I am definitely in the "for" camp, but I'm with Rosina, too – you can do too much. I try to err on the side of caution with exfoliation. It's confusing, sometimes, to know when to back off. Even if your skin doesn't look bad, sometimes backing off and doing nothing for a couple of weeks can make it look great. Chicken or egg? Is the stuff you are doing or the stuff you are not doing making your skin look better? Rolling Eyes

With all the talk about wounding builds collagen, versus your skin doesn't heal like it used to. I'm not losing sleep over it, I think I've got an okay handle, but still!

Re: the DMAE – I was just wondering the same thing. I just ordered some of Nanci's CP Accelerator, and then I started thinking about the DMAE. I thought I had read that you should only use it for a couple of weeks, and then go off it for a while. I finally found it on the skinactives site:

Quote:

This is a serum to use short term, like for a couple of weeks before a big event.

But I haven't read any other things about it (I confess I haven't really looked) except that there are a lot of opinions on both sides of the fence.

Rosina's article is kind of vague. She *seems* to be talking exclusively about the amine form, and I can't tell which form is in TTT. Although, she does say that the skin tightening effect is attributed to the amine form, which does not seem to be completely supported anecdotally. People seem to say the Skinactives serum, and other versions as well, do tighten.

Also, there's this:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=22612&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=dmae&start=0
This seems to be the study Rosina is referring to. Also, the woman she is referring to regarding exfoliation is This is Miranda. If you are interested, you can research her posts – she has a lot to say!

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:21 pm

Here is a little more on the DMAE.

http://www.smartskincare.com/ingredients/dmae_safety.html

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:26 pm

Oh! And I just read this under Nanci's description of the CP Accelerator:
DMAE-
Is best known for improving skin firmness and preventing sagging - often referred to as the “instant facelift” however, it offers several other great advantages including: Improved skin tone, is an anti-oxidant, reduces lines and wrinkles, extends cell life, reduces hyperpigmentation, age spots, photodamage and reduces “puffiness”.

Exactly opposite of what Rosina was saying.
Nanci, can you weigh in?

I apologize if this should be on another thread. If this gets any more advanced I'm sure it will get moved.

Rileygirl, How is it going now with your CPs? Don't you use retin a, as well? I having been wanting to incorporate retin a (and give up other forms of exfoliation), but I just haven't gotten around to it. I bought a roller a couple of years (!) ago, but I just have done the retin a thing, so I put it off. I just wonder if I go to retin a, if I will have to go down to a weaker CP. (At SS serum now.)

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:03 pm

Rileygirl - I just read that you are waiting until Monday. So, I my question is premature. I remember you saying, though, that you would put on the GHK, wait, and then put the Retin A on top. Is that what you did with the SS cream?

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:19 pm

hyacynthgirl wrote:

Oh! And I just read this under Nanci's description of the CP Accelerator:
DMAE-
Is best known for improving skin firmness and preventing sagging - often referred to as the “instant facelift” however, it offers several other great advantages including: Improved skin tone, is an anti-oxidant, reduces lines and wrinkles, extends cell life, reduces hyperpigmentation, age spots, photodamage and reduces “puffiness”.

Exactly opposite of what Rosina was saying.
Nanci, can you weigh in?

I apologize if this should be on another thread. If this gets any more advanced I'm sure it will get moved.

Rileygirl, How is it going now with your CPs? Don't you use retin a, as well? I having been wanting to incorporate retin a (and give up other forms of exfoliation), but I just haven't gotten around to it. I bought a roller a couple of years (!) ago, but I just have done the retin a thing, so I put it off. I just wonder if I go to retin a, if I will have to go down to a weaker CP. (At SS serum now.)

Hi hyacinthgirl - I would email NCN (nanci) directly - ask the question.. She is an experienced esthetician and will give you an honest answer based on what she knows... That said - I know Rosina is a careful researcher, and although she has no formal education in skin care (I may be wrong but haven't read as such), I listen to what Rosina says with regards to skin products. She's on top of things!!!! I'm sure nanci is careful and researches also and takes Continuing education classes in her field. Well - Like in any field - there are conflicting opinions - Case in point: some plastic surgeons are against facial exercise, some are for.... You just have to find what feels right for you.

free skin care · Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:37 pm

hyacynthgirl wrote:

Rileygirl - I just read that you are waiting until Monday. So, I my question is premature. I remember you saying, though, that you would put on the GHK, wait, and then put the Retin A on top. Is that what you did with the SS cream?

I didn't use Retin A with the SS cream, hyacynthgirl, as I have had problems from the get go with the cream! It just really stings for a while after I apply it, and it makes my cheeks really red, and my broken caps red, as well. I will give it 1 more shot, but I think I will probably just go back to the GHK. When I use Retin A with the GHK, I do put the GHK serum on first and then the RA. I am taking a break from RA though because it seems to make my broken caps worse, as well! I sound like a mess, don't I? Laughing

free skin care · Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:23 am

Thanks for the quick reply, rileygirl. We are all works in progress. Laughing

I hope going back to GHK will settle things down a bit. The in-between, not-knowing stage can be so frustrating.

And, Sis, thanks for the advice. I had alerted Nanci to my question on the thread, but it may be better to just ask her about the DMAE. It was not my intention at all to disparage either of these lovely ladies. Goodness knows I am always waiting to hear what they say next! (Benfotiamine!) I just figured, either the DMAE kills the cells, or it extends cell life – it can't be both. Just curious. Angel

(Speaking of waiting to hear what they say next, now you and Toby have me looking at the FIM lamp.)

free skin care · Tue May 03, 2011 4:25 pm

Hi! I am desperately looking for something to help my underarm F L A B ! Brick wall

Has anyone had any success with copper for this area?

free skin care · Tue May 03, 2011 8:00 pm

hyacynthgirl wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply, rileygirl. We are all works in progress. Laughing

I hope going back to GHK will settle things down a bit. The in-between, not-knowing stage can be so frustrating.

Well, my skin definitely settled down after I went back on the GHK, hyacynthgirl. I don't think 2nd gen CPs agree with my skin. I may try the SS serum, as maybe it is just something in the SS cream that my skin doesn't like. I will continue to use the GHK as this CP works well on my skin.

free skin care · Tue May 03, 2011 8:28 pm

Riley - Ghk cream and the serum are wonderful. I'm happily using these although I have no trouble with 2nd gens. I also like the SS Cream - have you tried that? I don't have sensitive skin but if I did I'd snuggle in with ghk cream. I love the smell of that product also.

free skin care · Tue May 03, 2011 8:34 pm

sister sweets wrote:

Riley - Ghk cream and the serum are wonderful. I'm happily using these although I have no trouble with 2nd gens. I also like the SS Cream - have you tried that? I don't have sensitive skin but if I did I'd snuggle in with ghk cream. I love the smell of that product also.

Yes, I love the GHK serum. I haven't used the GHK cream, though. Unfortunately, the SS Cream is what caused problems for me! It may just have been some ingredient in the lotion, itself, but I am not sure!

free skin care · Wed May 04, 2011 4:01 am

I've got a summer sun question?
With regards to the CP's I prefer to apply mine at night and the LACSAL(exfoliant) in the morning as my day cream.Most days either followed with one or both of homemade VIT C serum and/or 'Let's Make Collagen serum' from Skinactives applied about an hour or two later.
So when using the LACSAL this way am I putting my skin at risk when outdoors during the day-will this make my skin far more vulnerable with the saliciylic and lactic acids?? What should I be applying over top to protect my skin? Is just a good SPF enough or nothera moisturizer too? I don't want to cause any unnecessary damage while doing all this to reverse damage! :/

free skin care · Wed May 04, 2011 8:11 am

Pollyanna - I think spf should be fine; the c serum also has properties that protects the skin from the sun, so with both, I imagine it would be ok. At least, that's what I do in the morning. (Except that I use the lacsal, if and when I use it, an hour before the CP, at night.) Someone please correct me if I am wrong. (For my skin's sake, as well Smile

)

Rileygirl - as far as I understand it, the serum and the cream (SS) are not the same. The cream is milder than regular 2G CP Serum, and the SS serum is stronger, right below Super CP, I think. The SS Serum does not have any GHK. If you are having problems, you might want to try getting CP serum and watering it down. It is stronger than the SS cream, but you can control the strength. But it sounds to me like you might want to just stick with the GHK.

Thu May 05, 2011 5:46 pm

I've pretty much read through this entire thread but wanted to get a direct answer. I started using the GHK about 1.5 months ago and have noticed very minor improvements (yay!) but there is one spot, a single line under my left eye, that needs to die now. I know I should be patient, I'm building skin for goodness sake, but it mocks me, that line does. Would it be good to step up to the CP Night Eyes Regular now or should I keep on going with the GHK?

free skin care · Thu May 05, 2011 5:55 pm

hyacynthgirl wrote:

Rileygirl - as far as I understand it, the serum and the cream (SS) are not the same. The cream is milder than regular 2G CP Serum, and the SS serum is stronger, right below Super CP, I think. The SS Serum does not have any GHK. If you are having problems, you might want to try getting CP serum and watering it down. It is stronger than the SS cream, but you can control the strength. But it sounds to me like you might want to just stick with the GHK.

Ok. I had that wrong in my mind, I thought the SS cream and SS serum were the same, just 1 was cream and 1 serum. You are right, and I think I will just stick with the GHK for now!

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 10:19 am

A quick question if anyone can help please?

I have been using Trid, a very light layer, no problems but I really dislike the colour!!! I am going to try the skin signals cream. Is this green as well?? I love CP's and am getting results but the trid definitely leaves a green tinge...lol

I was going to try skin signals,but my skin is dry and I really need some moisture after, even with the triduction. I am not to keen on oils, any other suggestions please.

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 10:31 am

Hi Bermie,
My skin is also quite dry. I use Skin Signals Cream also but find that it is not moisturizing enough (considering that all you really want to apply is a light coat). I wait about 10 minutes then follow with a moisturizer.

Hope that helps,

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 10:53 am

thanks erg! is it green?

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 11:08 am

Hi Bermie,
Its blue. Does not leave a tint on my skin (like the regular CP serum does).

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 12:03 pm

thanks again erg!

I didn't mind the Protect & Restore, but the Trid was really dark green. Good to know the skin signal cream is not that dark.

free skin care · Tue May 10, 2011 6:37 pm

bermie - are you applying the CPs at night or in the AM?

The Skin Signals Solution is a Carribean Blue (to start), but, as all CPs, it will darken a bit w/ age. It doesnt' darken as much as some, though, because of it being in an Airless Pump bottle. I have never noticed the color on my skin and it seems to absorb right in.

None of the serums have any lipids in them at all, so it's wise to follow w/ some sort of oil or moisturizer. SB likes to advise using one of the oils that absorb easily, like emu or squalane. You can use what you like, though.

The Super CP Serum (which is similiar in strength to the Tri Reduction Cream) is somewhat dark (and will darken w/ age Rolling Eyes

), but I don't have a problem with it showing up, unless I use it on a scab (which will grab some of the dark color). I don't notice a smell either.

I do notice the smells w/ the stronger creams(SC2X or TriRed) or the Copper Sun & Body Lotions. I think the creams usually just STINK! SB has said the copper has a strong scent.

The Tin Peptide doesn't smell, though, and that one is used as the ingredient in the Folligen for Blondes and Nail Peptide, so I use it in both my hair and nails (works great!).

The Skin Signals CREAM is a lighter blue than the Skin Signals Serum and even has a tint of green in it. It doesn't seem to be dark enough to cause the problem the stronger creams do. It is very moisturizing for me, but drier skin might need to top it with another moisturizer.

Because the stronger creams have more CPs in them and they *might* cause a darkening of a scar or wound (or even settle into some large pores), I would recommend only using them at night for that reason.

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