Skin Biology's Copper Peptides
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free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:26 pm

I know I said I had asked all the questions, but since my order, I have been thinking of how I should start using the product. I have read all of this thread, but not many seem to be using P&R classic.
I have ordered the GHK for eyes and P&R plus emu oil. Should I use the emu under the GHK and P&R for a while? Also, should I bring the GHK right to the orbitol bones, as that is one of my worst areas, or should I use the P&R on those?
I can't wait for my stuff to arrive......This forum is costing me a fortune... Laughing

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:41 pm

foxe wrote:

double post! I knew that would happen when it started to bog down.

might as well ask a question to y'all here.

Has anyone tried using the Folligen lotion on their eyelashes?

Hi Foxe,

I don't think you ever got a response about whether anyone was using the Folligen Lotion on eye lashes. Not sure if you've seen this ...
http://truthinaging.com/product-brands/folligen-by-skin-biology

There is a link to a video showing how you use it. Here is the link from You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXux2aHO5aw

She applies it using an eyeliner brush on both her eyebrows and then painted it on the skin very close to the eye - like you would eyeliner, being careful not to get any in your eye. She removes any excess with her finger. It should penetrate the skin after approximately 10mins or so. Anything that is left after 10mins, wipe it off with a cotton pad. She actually uses her finger !

According to the video, people who have complained of irritation have tended to be people who have used the product at night, right before bed. They don't recommend using it at that time ... Reason being that your eyes close when you go to bed, so any excess product that has not yet been absorbed will be more likely to run into your eye.

ETA ... This 2nd video is done by Skin Biology, but was found on You Tube as well ... I wasn't able to read the bottle that she was showing, but she said Folligen Cream, rather than the Folligen Lotion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAg4D4WeyFg
She shows how to apply it as well. She recommends either using the eye liner brush or a q-tip. She actually recommended using it at night, but again not before going to bed. They said that most of their clients notice visible results after 2 months, but many will notice improvement after 2 weeks. They recommend using it every 2nd night.

At $22.30 from EDS, if it worked it would certainly be an inexpensive product for eyelash growth !!

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:33 pm

sue09 wrote:

I know I said I had asked all the questions, but since my order, I have been thinking of how I should start using the product. I have read all of this thread, but not many seem to be using P&R classic.
I have ordered the GHK for eyes and P&R plus emu oil. Should I use the emu under the GHK and P&R for a while? Also, should I bring the GHK right to the orbitol bones, as that is one of my worst areas, or should I use the P&R on those?
I can't wait for my stuff to arrive......This forum is costing me a fortune... Laughing

Hi Sue - If you have normal skin (not sensitive, etc.) I would feel fine with using the PR and the GHK straight out. But that's me. I used Skin Signals right off the bat and that's much more potent. If you want to play it safe I would use the emu first but only for about a weeks worth. and then get to it. I love the P&R classic. Great stuff.
You are being conservative starting so you should be fine.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:43 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

foxe wrote:

Using the Retin A along w/ CPs is really good - I had great results using those 2 together myself. Try one in the morning and the other at night.

foxe, are you using Retin A and CPs at the same time of the day? And when do you use your AALS (before CPs or after)?

I used both of them together with really good results, but I think you get better results using them separately. I've actually done it both ways. If you can fit it into your routine, try it on separate nights or Retin A at night and the CPs in the morning.

If you want to use them on the same night, just give the Retin A about 45 - 60 minutes to absorb and do it's work before using CPs.

I do use the AALS and put my CPs on first as I want the AALS to help them absorb.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:50 pm

Thanks Time2BeMe for Marta's link. I hardly get over to her website very often(need to bookmark that one), but love to read her stuff!

I've applied the Folligen lotion a few times to my own lashes w/ an eyeliner brush. The lotion is a good consistency for application. But, I've only done it inconsistently, so I was wondering if anyone else had done it and what kind of results they've had. In spots on my eyebrows where I've applied it it has filled in a bit. Again - I've been inconsistent there as well.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:05 pm

foxe wrote:

I do use the AALS and put my CPs on first as I want the AALS to help them absorb.

foxe, that's what I've been doing for a long time. I apply the Skin Signals solution, then DPL and then Retin A. When I received my DPL from NCN, that's what Nanci recommended.

Do you think that Protect & Restore can be also applied before the AALS?

I cannot use CP in the morning as I use my Vit C Serum.

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:23 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

foxe wrote:

I do use the AALS and put my CPs on first as I want the AALS to help them absorb.

foxe, that's what I've been doing for a long time. I apply the Skin Signals solution, then DPL and then Retin A. When I received my DPL from NCN, that's what Nanci recommended.

Do you think that Protect & Restore can be also applied before the AALS?

I cannot use CP in the morning as I use my Vit C Serum.

I *think* it'd be fine. I've actually used the Skin Signals cream before the LED and it seems to work together just fine. From what I can read on the AALS website - it only says to not use Retin A/retinoids before using the LED, but I can't find mention of not using any other types of creams before hand.

I would think that it would be best to let the creams absorb really good before using the lights. And keep in mind that creams take longer than a serum to absorb.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:34 am

foxe wrote:

I would think that it would be best to let the creams absorb really good before using the lights. And keep in mind that creams take longer than a serum to absorb.

Very good point!

And I agree, it's better not to put anything with acids before the lights. I wasn't sure about the creams conatining oils since they do absorb slowly.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:15 am

foxe wrote:

Thanks Time2BeMe for Marta's link. I hardly get over to her website very often(need to bookmark that one), but love to read her stuff!

I've applied the Folligen lotion a few times to my own lashes w/ an eyeliner brush. The lotion is a good consistency for application. But, I've only done it inconsistently, so I was wondering if anyone else had done it and what kind of results they've had. In spots on my eyebrows where I've applied it it has filled in a bit. Again - I've been inconsistent there as well.

I'm going to try it on my eyebrows as well. I have some bald spots from overplucking and now it doesn't grow back. I'll have to remind myself that it won't be a quick fix - they say may see some improvement in a couple of weeks, but to count on a couple of months. I'd still prefer to stay to more natural products than the chemical ones that are out there right now. I'm concerned what the long term affects of many of them will be.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:50 am

Can this be to much to use?
- tretionin gel 0.025% PM
- CP serum AM
- Vita C 20% AM
- BHA 2% on areas with enlarged pores, every other day PM.

I want to target sagging, and enlarged pores whit some big guns. Do a test period of a couple of months.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:02 pm

Vanilj wrote:

Can this be to much to use?
- tretionin gel 0.025% PM
- CP serum AM
- Vita C 20% AM
- BHA 2% on areas with enlarged pores, every other day PM.

I want to target sagging, and enlarged pores whit some big guns. Do a test period of a couple of months.

You can't use the CPs w/ Vitamin C serums, the CPs cancel out the C and they're usually too expensive to waste like that.

You can try to use them every other day - that works. Or use one at night w/ the Retin A/tretinoin. The usual rule for layering is thickness (thin goes first) and then the pH (lower pH first). Use a wait time after applying something w/ a low pH.

So, for you, you could try the CP Serum first in the evening (after cleansing), wait about 10 minutes or so for it to soak in, and then apply the tretinoin. Alternatively, you can even try the Retin A first, but gave it about 45 minutes to an hour to work by itself before applying CPs. With either method, you'll be able use your Vit C in the AM.

If you also want to use an acid (which I'm inclined to think that an acid AND a retinoid is a bit too much exfoliation, lately - JMO that's changed this past year), you might want to try that in the AM w/ the Vit C. You could also alternate nights w/ the acid and the retinoid - that approach might be a bit gentler on the skin and let you get the best of both worlds.

If you haven't bought any CPs, think about the Skin Signals Serum - it's new and has added elastin and collegen to help w/ the sag.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:28 pm

Hi All

- Do I have a lot of catching up to do!

Sweets & Foxe - you seem to be doing a good job holding down the CP Fort.

The nice part about CPs is that once you get your skin in great condition, all you need are mild products to maintain. P&R Classic Cream is one my favs and I have been alternating Skin Signals Solution & the new SS Cream (GHK based).

Since SS Cream doesn't like to be used with acids I find it a perfect complement to use after Retin-A.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:55 pm

foxe wrote:

Vanilj wrote:

Can this be to much to use?
- tretionin gel 0.025% PM
- CP serum AM
- Vita C 20% AM
- BHA 2% on areas with enlarged pores, every other day PM.

I want to target sagging, and enlarged pores whit some big guns. Do a test period of a couple of months.

You can't use the CPs w/ Vitamin C serums, the CPs cancel out the C and they're usually too expensive to waste like that.

You can try to use them every other day - that works. Or use one at night w/ the Retin A/tretinoin. The usual rule for layering is thickness (thin goes first) and then the pH (lower pH first). Use a wait time after applying something w/ a low pH.

So, for you, you could try the CP Serum first in the evening (after cleansing), wait about 10 minutes or so for it to soak in, and then apply the tretinoin. Alternatively, you can even try the Retin A first, but gave it about 45 minutes to an hour to work by itself before applying CPs. With either method, you'll be able use your Vit C in the AM.

If you also want to use an acid (which I'm inclined to think that an acid AND a retinoid is a bit too much exfoliation, lately - JMO that's changed this past year), you might want to try that in the AM w/ the Vit C. You could also alternate nights w/ the acid and the retinoid - that approach might be a bit gentler on the skin and let you get the best of both worlds.

If you haven't bought any CPs, think about the Skin Signals Serum - it's new and has added elastin and collegen to help w/ the sag.

OK, thank you for your answer. I have to apologize if I ask questions about thing that are already been discussed in this thread. I haven't read throw all of the replies..

First of all.
when I first decided to go with the Retin A about a year ago, I cheesed between the retin and a CP serum. I read something in the forum about the "danger" of using CP:s. I can't remember What it was now, and I can't find the thread. But something made me to scared to test using a CP. Are there any concerns about using a CP, I think the writer of the tread about getting permanent skin damaged from it, mainly under the eyes.(?)

So, I have written down my "new" skincare routine to try out. Please correct me and make suggestions. That would be highly appreciated.

PM.
I cleans with a face foam, right now the Naturderm.
I let the skin dry and apply a CP serum, you suggested the Skin Signal serum. Not to "heavy" to use as a first timer..? Should I apply it on my problem ares of broken caps from start, or should I go easy on those areas? I read alot about the healing or scaring from CP:s, but can they also minimize enlarges pores..?
I wait about 15 minutes and then apply my Retin A. Then I wait anoter 60 minutes and I'm thinking about to try out the emu oil for a nightreatment.
Question, what about my eye area - do I apply the CP on the eye area? I don't use the Retin A around my eyes. I only use the Power K eyecream from Peter Thomas Roth, day and night.

AM.
Cleans with water, perhaps a mild toner. Apply my Vita C and wait about 15 minutes and then apply a moisturizer. Thinking about trying out the house of Dermings serums and moisturizer. Right now I'm using DeCleor.
These product are expensive, and I'm think I will use up my Vita C serums and then let it be until the summer are knocking on my door.
This is the ingredient list of those product I'm thinking about trying.

Intense Gel R-ALA - House of deming
Is packed with Certified Organic Jojoba, Manuka Honey (UMF 10+/NZ), Deionized Water, Natural Alpha Lipoic Acid (RALA), Polygonium Cuspidatum Extract (Resveratrol), DMAE, Vitamin C, Tocomin [Natural D mixed Tocotrierols], Vitis vinifera (Red Wine Extract), Pomegranate Extract, Acai Berry, Organic Cranberry Extract, Pure Essential & Fragrance Oils, Optiphen Plus [a paraben free preservative].

Pure Vitamin Therapy - House of Deming
73% Organic Certified ingredients. Organic aloe barbadensis Juice, rosa damascena (Rose) distillate, Organic cocos nucifera (Coconut) oil, collagen, elastin, Shea butter, emulsifying wax NF, Kosher vegetable glycerin, vitis vinifera (Grapeseed) oil, prunus dulcis (Sweet Almond) oil, Persea americana (Avocado) oil, lanolin, palm stearic acid, hamamelis virginiana (Witch Hazel), Tocomin® , dimethylaminoethanol bitartrate [DMAE], idebenone, coenzyme Q10, Vitamin D3, alpha-lipoic acid, Vitamin B5, Vitamin A palmitate, henoxyethanol, xanthan gum (Polysaccharide Gum),Organic salix nigra (Black Willowbark), mannan, azadirachta indica (Neem) oil, rosmarinus officinalis (Rosemary) Oleoresin, Tetrasodium EDTA, citric acid. No coloring/dyes, scenting or animal products.

Sorry for my long posting..
One other question, while I have it on my mind, body lotion, and serums. tho use CP all over the body, good or bad idea? Any suggestions on a bodylotion? I am all for as natural as the product can be regarding cleansers and moistureisers and serums. No adding of mineral oils, parabens colours etc.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:48 am

I forgot to say that I'm also interested in a O2 serum, to fit into my regime with CP:s, Retin A, Vita C serum..
I'm truly are a on my way to become a Real skincareaddict.. Wink

That O2 serum - I probably should have to wait with..

I skip the AHA/BHA completely, and the Vita C in the winter months.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:15 am

I have been on the skin bio site trying to work out my full order. I ordered my GHK, P&R and emu off this site as it is quicker delivery to UK.

I now want to order everything I might need off the skin bio site, as it takes 30 days to arrive and I might be getting ready to move by then (or not as I knoow I have to go slowly).

I was just wondering if there is a thread where we could post a photo on here and then you may see the probs I have and be able to advise what products I might need as time goes on. I would like to order all at once to save on postage and wait time when I need things.

Thank you

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:27 pm

Star Model wrote:

Hi All

- Do I have a lot of catching up to do!

Sweets & Foxe - you seem to be doing a good job holding down the CP Fort.

The nice part about CPs is that once you get your skin in great condition, all you need are mild products to maintain. P&R Classic Cream is one my favs and I have been alternating Skin Signals Solution & the new SS Cream (GHK based).

Since SS Cream doesn't like to be used with acids I find it a perfect complement to use after Retin-A.

Hi StarModel – Nice to see you again! wave

I was wondering where you disappeared to. Join in anytime to help answer questions – you have great replies.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:34 pm

Vanilj wrote:

OK, thank you for your answer. I have to apologize if I ask questions about thing that are already been discussed in this thread. I haven't read throw all of the replies..

First of all.
when I first decided to go with the Retin A about a year ago, I cheesed between the retin and a CP serum. I read something in the forum about the "danger" of using CP:s. I can't remember What it was now, and I can't find the thread. But something made me to scared to test using a CP. Are there any concerns about using a CP, I think the writer of the tread about getting permanent skin damaged from it, mainly under the eyes.(?)

So, I have written down my "new" skincare routine to try out. Please correct me and make suggestions. That would be highly appreciated.

Edited out routine and ingredients to save space

Sorry for my long posting..
One other question, while I have it on my mind, body lotion, and serums. tho use CP all over the body, good or bad idea? Any suggestions on a bodylotion? I am all for as natural as the product can be regarding cleansers and moistureisers and serums. No adding of mineral oils, parabens colours etc.

It’s OK to ask before finishing up reading the thread. But do go back and try to read some more because there’s good tips thrown in here and there.

The biggest issue I’ve read about(that can scare people off about) using CPs is ‘uglies’. The uglies is usually a loosening of the skin. This might happen when the skin is not ready for the strong copper peptides yet. It usually goes away pretty fast (and only a handful of accounts have said it lasted a long time) and the skin is left in a nicer condition afterwards – at least that was my experience. I would see uglies when I first started some of the stronger products, but my skin always returned to normal. For example, it happened when I spot treated a couple areas with the strongest CP – SC2X – while starting out on the CP Serum on the rest of my face. Those spots would get loose/dehydrated looking. It actually kinda looked like fine wrinkles in the ‘spot’. I would then back off using ANY CPs on that area and just apply emu oil. After a few days – the skin returned to normal and I would proceed> albeit, at a s-l-o-w-e-r pace than before (just so I didn’t experience that again). The uglies appeared at other times when I moved up too fast to a stronger CP (I remember it happening on my upper eyelids-twice, for the 2 different products I moved up to). Until your skin is use to them, take it easy and take it slow. Copper Peptides are strong! For some people, a couple of weeks(or less, even!) with each new introduction is all they need. For others, a month or 2 might be better. If you read the beginning of this thread, you’ll see I took it real slow to avoid any reaction like the uglies. I think I diluted the CP Serum out over a 6 week long program. I didn’t have any issues- it worked out great for me and is a good example for others to try. The only time I saw ‘uglies’ is when I tried to sneak in the stronger stuff before I was ready for it. I don’t get ANY uglies w/ CPs anymore. I can use the strongest one full strength on large areas w/out any problems. But, that took quite a while to get use to doing that, for sure.

For your routine – I think it sounds about right. You can use the CPs around your eye, but you definitely need to use the gentler ones there. They formulated some just for that (the Night Eyes line), but other gentle ones to try are the Super GHK and the new Skin Signals Cream.
On using CPs on the body – they do have a product just for that (the Body Lotion), but you could use whatever you like. The P&R is good (the Body Lotion is based on the P&R lineup) and the TriReduction (a much stronger version of the P&R). There’s also the BND Cream – formulated for the chest/décolleté area. I use either the Suntanning Lotion or the Body Lotion myself. I’ve used the BND and it’s also nice.
Skin Bio is trying to be as ‘natural’ as possible too. They don’t like to add ingredients that are harmful or unnecessary to their products. There’s good and bad to that, though, as the CPs do not have a very nice natural ‘scent’ to them, and an added perfume could possibly mask that scent. I find that the serums don’t have a smell to them at all, though, the stronger creams are definitely lacking on the perfume end.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:35 pm

sue09 wrote:

I have been on the skin bio site trying to work out my full order. I ordered my GHK, P&R and emu off this site as it is quicker delivery to UK.

I now want to order everything I might need off the skin bio site, as it takes 30 days to arrive and I might be getting ready to move by then (or not as I knoow I have to go slowly).

I was just wondering if there is a thread where we could post a photo on here and then you may see the probs I have and be able to advise what products I might need as time goes on. I would like to order all at once to save on postage and wait time when I need things.

Thank you

Hi sue09 – That’s too bad it takes so long to get across the big pond. I’ve gotten my orders fairly fast from them. Hopefully you won’t actually need to wait that long.
For photos – some people load pics on a web photo site in order to post them here. If you don’t have one of those (I don’t), perhaps someone here can do it for you. A good written description might enable us to advise you too. Just some thoughts.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:20 pm

http://s934.photobucket.com/albums/ad190/Sue09_01/Skincare/?action=view&current=100_1457-1.jpg

Foxe, I hope this link works. You can see the deep n/l lines and lots of fine lines and sagging. I would be grateful of anyones suggestions.

Thanks

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:44 am

Wow, that was really quick. I have just had my order through from this site, which is less than a week across the pond.

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:52 am

Well, I put some emu oil on and then used the GHK (very small amount) on my eyes and around the the cheek bone. I then used a very small amout of the protect and restore classsic on the lower half of my face and throat area.

After a short while I notice some prickling feeling on the lower half of face. It isn't uncomfortable, it is just there. Should I perhaps use the GHK all over for a while, or is the prickly feeling quite normal. I also noticed that the emu oil doesn't seem to sink in like a moisturiser. What do you think?

Thanks

free skin care · Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:49 pm

Hi Sue,

It's normal to feel that prickly or itchy feeling, I still do a certain amount after being back on CP's for 8 months but it goes away after a couple of hours.
I find the emu oil does sink in but it does take a while. You might prefer the squalane oil though.
You could try for the first while applying the P&R over the emu oil to buffer the am't of CP's being absorbed. See how that goes for a few days or just using the GHK for awhile is a good way of starting also. Let us know how your doing.

free skin care · Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:54 pm

Well the uglies have hit me after nearly 2 months of usng copper peptides. I was using too much product (copper serum and copper sun cream by day, Skin Signals serum, followed by Lacsal Cream at night). My skin was beautiful when I was using the regular copper peptide serum every second night and the Lacsal cream every other night, plus copper sun cream most days.

I first noticed some slackness around the jowels, and then three days ago I noticed what looked almost like indentations, as opposed to wrinkles, on my cheeks, and my pores looking larger.

I'm going to stop using any copper peptide products for a couple of weeks and then just go back to using the copper serum two to three evenings a week. Also I don't feel that either Day Cover or Copper Sun are effective enough for me as sunscreens. I've developed pigmentation in the past when using physical sunblocks only, and had that pigmentation fade when I've gone back to using chemical sunscreens.

So for now my routine is going to be non acidic vitamin c serum followed by Olay Complete SPF 15 during the day. In the evening it will be either Neutrogena Agless night cream or Skin Biology's Lacsal, alternating nights, and leaving my skin bare at least one night a week. Thes are products that have proven themselves on my skin in the past. My skin is absolutely loving the Lacsal cream.

Take the warnings on the Skin Biology website to go slow seriously. I think the main problem with copper peptides is they can remove the damaged collagen faster than the body can make new collagen if used too aggressively. I certainly became complacent because my skin was showing no signs of irritation and was getting good results.

Because the majority of people are prettly bad at taking directions seriously, I can see copper peptides being problemnatic for companies that mass market. There is too mcuh potential for the uglies. It's always going to be safer for companies like L'oreal and Olay to stick with ingredients that don't have the potential downside.

free skin care · Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:15 am

P&R for Breasts, Nipples, and Décolletage; Strong, good on sensitive skin; also works well on the neck area; a cream。。。ANY ONE WHO USED IT? IS IT USEFUL FOR UP AND FIRMNING BREASTS?

free skin care · Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:58 am

I've also decided to drop back my copper peptides to a couple of times a week. I have had no major 'uglies'. I just don't know? My skin looks abit dull. I look abit dark around the eyes especially, which was never really a problem for me!

I can't say they have really done much. I have been using them about 5 weeks, I know this isn't really long enough but I am abit wary to continue as I don't want my skin to get any worse!!

I had 3 IPL treatments just before I started the CP's and was extremely happy with the results. I'm just not sure about bringing damage to the surface!! I just paid lots to have that removed!

anyway at the moment I am lessening CP's to see what happens.

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