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Skin Biology's Copper Peptides

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hotdocgirl
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:52 pm      Reply with quote
I will stick with cp's and add clear and retin a or green cream into my routine. With the cp's..I am using them more sparingly. I take weekends off.. I use SS cream in the a.m.. and ss serum at night..tri reduction on my body.
My face is tighter..but ..again..my skin doesn't have that luminescent look like it did when I did Obaji Nuderm.
rileygirl
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:36 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks, hotdocgirl. Please report how that combo works!
sister sweets
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Thu Jul 07, 2011 10:31 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Riley - do you still use any obagi?

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rileygirl
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Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:42 am      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Hi Riley - do you still use any obagi?


Nope, I don't need it any more. After 3 cycles (once a year for 3 years at 18 weeks each) my hyperigmentation is all gone. I can maintain that with just retin A and sunscreen now.
JaeBlue
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Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:12 pm      Reply with quote
OK - over three months using Super CP Serum, LacSal and the eyecream. I see zero improvement and in fact my skin is worse. Blotchy, endless blackheads, rough texture - which I don't normally have. I started off very slowly and carefully I'm still at only every other day diluted.

I just read a whole breakdown on Skinbiology's Copper on Owndoc forum and now I see why. From their research the 2nd generation CP's are cheap imitators and probably not effective.

SAVE YOUR MONEY IMO!
foxe
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:32 am      Reply with quote
JaeBlue wrote:
OK - over three months using Super CP Serum, LacSal and the eyecream. I see zero improvement and in fact my skin is worse. Blotchy, endless blackheads, rough texture - which I don't normally have. I started off very slowly and carefully I'm still at only every other day diluted.

I just read a whole breakdown on Skinbiology's Copper on Owndoc forum and now I see why. From their research the 2nd generation CP's are cheap imitators and probably not effective.

SAVE YOUR MONEY IMO!


I'm sorry to hear the CPs haven't done much for you Jaeblue. Blotchy and rough texture could be a sign of skin remodeling and you'd be in the middle of that if so. Blackheads, on the other hand, might be a sign of irritation. It would be best to rest the skin from CPs for now. The Super CP serum is probably just too strong for your skin.

Regarding the owndoc forum, those are OPINIONS of the forum mod, not 'researched' from her. She has not educated herself very well IMO on what 2nd generation CPs are, as is evidenced from her comments. It is not true that they are 'imitators' of copper peptides at all - they ARE 2nd generation CPs (*see note below). And they are very effective for many people, just not everybody. But, not all products will work for everyone - let alone the ones offered by Skin Biology.

*The GHK CP is the 1st generation CP and the one that has the majority of research studies on it. Dr Pickart developed that CP. He also developed the 2nd generation CP after it was discovered the 1st gen one broke down in certain conditions and when exposed to acids. He has kept the 2nd gen one under tighter controls, offering only a few studies and continues to adjust formulas and offer new products. He seems to be a man in love with research and is constantly working on that end of things**. He did develop the 2nd generation CPs to be able to withstand exposure to acids and be more stable than the 1st generation CPs. He has said the 2nd gen CPs work the same as the 1st gen ones only better (ie: don't break down and are stronger).

Don't give up on CPs just yet. Sometimes different ones work better for different people or even on different parts of the skin. I, myself, found I couldn't handle the CP serum or Super CP serum on my chest and avoided them there for along time. I finally tried different ones that agreed w/ my sensitive decollete and once that area improved and became healthier - it was able to handle the CP Serum/Super CP serums. Some of the other products offered by SB might work better for you.

**Dr Pickart recently offered up new research he & others had been working on showing GHK suppressing cancer metatasis genes - Presented at the Society for the Advancement of Wound Care and the Wound Healing Society, Dallas, Texas, April 14-17, 2011

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JaeBlue
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:01 pm      Reply with quote
I read what she wrote, it makes perfect sense. If SkinBiology was that amazing - trust me women would be knocking down their doors - and they're not. I went on a review site where women had reviewed SkinBiology Super CP, most with high ratings. I emailed a lot of them to see if they were still using them. All of them said - no.

I'm in my 50's, I know my skin. If after months of using a product if I'm not seeing some improvement but instead - worse skin - that is a huge red flag.

I'm seeing not one improvement using 3 products. Bad news for me. Wasted a lot of money on these.

In fact here is a review by another woman - couldn't agree more > "I've been using the SkinBiology 2nd generation "copper peptide" products religiously for a year now and have found no improvement in my skin. If anything new lines and age spots have developed. I now realise that these products do not contain not GHK-Cu, but copper chloride and hydrolized soy protein. Pickart claims there is research to confirm the latter works, however my experience doesn't support that."

Please everyone really study up, don't just believe a website. I have age spots all over my skin that I never had before.
hotdocgirl
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:14 pm      Reply with quote
CP's are tricky... they are not predictable and they don't work the same on everyone. So, they are more for those who don't mind trying something that has a huge learning curve. For me, cp's have done not a thing to fade sun spots or hyper-pigmentation. Nada! But my skin is tighter. So I appreciate that and realize they are not the single silver bullet.
I think the majority of women want to see results..and improvement when using a product for their face..to enhance their beauty. Cp's can make you look worse as they work..and they are a slow go.
With that said..i use them and will continue to do so..
I suggest you do Objai... do the 18 week thing..and you'll have the results you are looking for. That is a sure thing. Be warned you will look worse before better..but you will end up looking YOUNGER.
holly39
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:42 pm      Reply with quote
Hi there i just posted on another thread about skinbioligy as didnt see this one i have just orderd cp serum ,lascal and emu.I can see there are mixed reviews and now i am a bit worried i have wasted my money as the last post the lady seems to have had nothing happen at all.I was looking forward to the results but maybe im hoping for too much.Are the products really cheap cps ,i spent a lot of time reading the posts on the skinbiology forum and they seemed good reviews ,i should maybe have read a bit more hear first.I will give it a go as i have oredred the products so maybe they will work for me .kind regarsd holly
JaeBlue
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:43 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you for the suggestions.

I have products that really do work and I stick with them. But then occasionally hear something new and want to try it. After really reading about these products and what forms of copper are in them - I am less convinced then ever.

I have some amazing products in my bathroom that I set aside to try these - will rush back to them now! Will look into the Obagi!
erg
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:45 pm      Reply with quote
Holly
I have had great results with firming and general tone of my skin. I use Skin Biology CPs 5 days per week.

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JaeBlue
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:52 pm      Reply with quote
I also just found out Skinbiology tests on animals - no, no, no.
JaeBlue
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:28 pm      Reply with quote
I just have to post one more - the worst part is how it effected the tone of my skin. Super blotchy with different shades of skin. Very weird.

I just hope it goes away!!! I want my 4 month ago skin back . . . Smile
sister sweets
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:05 pm      Reply with quote
JaeBlue wrote:
If SkinBiology was that amazing - trust me women would be knocking down their doors - and they're not.
Please everyone really study up, don't just believe a website. I have age spots all over my skin that I never had before.


Hi JaeBlue - I'm in the camp of CP lovers - having used both 1st and 2nd gens. I feel your frustration and I feel bad for your situation. As foxe has said CP's aren't for everyone. I absolutely believe you started out too high on the CP strength scale, thus causing your problems. Your best bet may have been with GHK.

I need to comment on your first statement above. First of all NO PRODUCT is that amazing - I have never known of one product working for everyone. Have you? and I've never known women to be knocking down doors for a product (although I have a favorite that I WOULD knock down doors for - but not everyone would). Laughing

Basically - what you are doing is reporting that CP's weren't for you or at least at the strength you've used. Clearly they were doing something - not just sitting there.

I hope Obagi will work for you. Good luck. There are some good Obagi threads on here.

~Sis

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Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:17 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
JaeBlue wrote:


I just read a whole breakdown on Skinbiology's Copper on Owndoc forum and now I see why. From their research the 2nd generation CP's are cheap imitators and probably not effective.





Regarding the owndoc forum, those are OPINIONS of the forum mod, not 'researched' from her. She has not educated herself very well IMO on what 2nd generation CPs are, as is evidenced from her comments. It is not true that they are 'imitators' of copper peptides at all - they ARE 2nd generation CPs (*see note below). And they are very effective for many people, just not everybody. But, not all products will work for everyone - let alone the ones offered by Skin Biology.




Hi foxe, I must say when I read those comments by Sarah Vaughtner I was really concerned. Could there be some truth to what she is saying? I would like to ask the people on the Skin Bio boards about this. But, I think it's safer to talk about it here. I use GHK and Skin Signals Cream and feel confident using them. Sarah basically says that the 2nd generation cps are not real cps. The only ones you can trust are the GHK products. She really placed some doubts in my mind.
foxe
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:47 pm      Reply with quote
packratmack - If Dr Pickart (who developed BOTH 1st gen and 2nd gen CPs) calls the 2nd gen CPs copper peptides, then that's his perogative. They're his 'babies'.

Here's a little explanation from Dr Pickart on his two peptides. Hopefully this alleviates your concerns on using the 2nd gen CPs.

http://www.skinbiology.com/bldermatology.html :
Quote:
In 1985, I started a company called ProCyte to develop products based on GHK-Cu. We found that GHK-Cu creams to the human skin increased the thickness of the epidermis and dermis, increased skin elasticity, reduced wrinkles, resulting in a removal of skin imperfections such as blotchiness and sun damage marks, while producing a significant increase in subcutaneous fat cells. Recent, more extensive and statistically significant, human studies solidified these observations. GHK-Cu in creams is more effective in stimulating new collagen development than vitamin C or retinoic acid (Abulghani, Shirin, Morales-Tapia, Sherr, Solodkina, Robertson, Gottlieb). In eight weeks, a GHK-Cu-containing liquid foundation improved epidermal thickness, increased skin elasticity, and improved skin appearance (Abba, Finkley, Stephens).

GHK-Cu creams reduced visible signs of photodamage and increased skin density in eight weeks on facial skin (Leyden, Grove, Barkovic, Appa). A placebo controlled study (71 females, 12 weeks), reported that GHK-Cu containing face creams reduced wrinkles and fine lines while increasing skin elasticity, density and skin thickness (Leyden, Stephens, Finkey, Barkovic). A second placebo controlled study (41 females, 12 weeks) by these physicians found that a GHK-Cu containing eye cream reduced wrinkles and fine lines and improved eye appearance.

In 1994, I started Skin Biology to develop an improved second generation of skin regenerative copper peptides with enhanced potency, breakdown resistance, a longer duration of action and high adherence to skin. We found a fraction of peptide fragments from soy protein that possessed the desired qualities when chelated to copper (II). Such soy peptides have a very low antigenicity and long history of safe use in cosmetic products. In humans, Howard Maibach and colleagues at San Francisco tested these new copper peptides in four small, placebo-controlled human studies. They found that creams made from these new copper complexes produced significantly faster skin healing and reduced redness and inflammation after mild skin injuries induced by tape stripping, acetone burns (removal of skin lipids), 24-hour detergent irritation, and nickel allergy inflammation.


As you can see by Dr Pickart's quote - the 2nd gen CPs are bound to copper using soy which has some better qualities to it than the 1st gen CPs do. Dr P dug around until he came up w/ something that would work better than the 1st gen CPs. The 1st gen CPs had failed in a wound healing study to get FDA approval - so he went on to something 'improved'. This world would just stand still if people didn't try something new, wouldn't it?

I also PMd you.

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sister sweets
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Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:13 pm      Reply with quote
So true Foxe. Dr. Pickart is the CP guru. He lives to research and improve his product line. I like Sara's knowledge of dermarolling but she is not the person I would look to for CP guidance but that's me. Many people have had tremendous success with CP's (2nd gens). I used them for a few years and am now doing maintenance with GHK cream.

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Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:28 am      Reply with quote
Sorry to chime in here. I was wondering if Cp's can cause hair growth on one's face? I thought someone had mentioned this. Or maybe I'm just crazy! Razz
JaeBlue
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:44 am      Reply with quote
Let's all be really aware. In this day and age, any product line that works will have extensive before and after photos. (That are OBVIOUSLY not photo-shopped) I've taken my own before and after photos. I can clearly see what improvements I've had or haven't had when I use products. Any product line that makes great claims that cannot show clear documentation from customers - something is really off IMO.

The best site for this that has so many photos is Makeup Artists Choice. I've used their products for a decade and they 100% work. I'm sure that there are other sites that have this documentation - Skin Biology is not one of them.

Go check this out > http://www.makeupartistschoice.com
JaeBlue
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:46 am      Reply with quote
Have you all seen a photo of Dr. Pickart? Well, his products are obviously not working on him, unless he's 105 years old.

Smile
JaeBlue
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:48 am      Reply with quote
Here you go > http://reverseskinaging.com/drpickart.html

Really now . . . ?!
foxe
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Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:47 pm      Reply with quote
Skin Biology has pictures on both their website and forum.
http://www.reverseskinaging.com/pictures.html

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/1480045352

Diana Yvonne has quite a few pictures as well (some might have been shared w/ SB)

http://www.dianayvonne.com/category/16c/

I also have taken pictures with every product I have tried. The ones I took progressively w/ CPs have given me the proof that they work for me.

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Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:52 pm      Reply with quote
I actually think Dr Pickart looks pretty good for someone in their 70's. And people on the forum have said his hands look very young (he uses trireduction on them).

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Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:59 pm      Reply with quote
SkinCareJunkie wrote:
Sorry to chime in here. I was wondering if Cp's can cause hair growth on one's face? I thought someone had mentioned this. Or maybe I'm just crazy! Razz


Not grow like a man's beard. But, they do make the hair follicle healthier which in turn helps hair (that's suppose to grow - like on the head or eyebrows/lashes) grow.

I do not see extra growth of the peach fuzz on my face from using CPs and I didn't see a decrease when I stopped using them during a trial run of another product either.

I have seen growth of thinning areas in my brows and outer corners of my forehead- which use to have baby fine hairs that disappeared these last few years. I started hitting those areas w/ CPs (different ones - but mostly the folligen lotion) and they have filled back in.

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SkinCareJunkie
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Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:28 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
SkinCareJunkie wrote:
Sorry to chime in here. I was wondering if Cp's can cause hair growth on one's face? I thought someone had mentioned this. Or maybe I'm just crazy! Razz


Not grow like a man's beard. But, they do make the hair follicle healthier which in turn helps hair (that's suppose to grow - like on the head or eyebrows/lashes) grow.

I do not see extra growth of the peach fuzz on my face from using CPs and I didn't see a decrease when I stopped using them during a trial run of another product either.

I have seen growth of thinning areas in my brows and outer corners of my forehead- which use to have baby fine hairs that disappeared these last few years. I started hitting those areas w/ CPs (different ones - but mostly the folligen lotion) and they have filled back in.


Ty for your reply Foxe! I was just wondering because after using my Osmosis products (which some contain cps) I noticed I have more peach fuzz on my face. Maybe it's from something else!
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