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Star Model
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:15 am      Reply with quote
I think more than anything that much of the confusion surrounding CPs is that many are looking for a "cookie cutter" guideline to follow. But there are many variations that work and it also depends on what you are trying to achieve.

Some are going for scar removal, others just overall tightening and thickening and clarity of the skin. Also, skin types vary.

I haven't used GHK in quite sometime and did not use Retin-A when I was using it. I used it around my eyes for over 1 year before moving up. So I am not 100% sure if they can be used together (like CPs and Retin-A), but I will see if I can find out from Dr. P. This would be from a "GHK fragility" stand point.

Here are a few basic rules that I can outline to follow:

1.) CPs and topical Vit C should be separated by 12 hr.

2.) If using a ZO SS, use CPs in the PM - (Titanium Dioxide is preferred but not required)

3.) Apply Hydroxy Acids either on the opposite end of the day from CPs or 1st with a min 20 – 30 min wait.

4.) Apply Retin-A 1st with at least 30 min wait time. This will give you the most out of Retin-A and *most preferable*.

- a.)They can also be used together to reduce Retin-A irritation, but this also reduces Retin-A effectiveness (good for new Retin-A users)
- b.) Retin-A after amplifies CPs but may cause CP irritation. (better for targeting deep scars)
- c.) Alternate Retin-A with Hydroxy's (Retin-A every 2nd or 3rd night)


5.) Use products lightly and go slow. Progressing at your own pace.

6.) Emu or Squalane 1st will reduce CP uptake (good for new users and eyes)

7.) Emu or Squalane on top will help to push CPs deeper into the skin to get down into the dermis.

8.) Using weekly exfoliating scrubs or cloths are recommended to encourage cell turnover.

9.) Also take 1,000 mg Vit C, MSM and Omega 3 to aid in skin repair.

10.) Avoid stress.(easier said than done)! Laughing

I'm sure there is more, but these are some of the basics. Hope that Helps a little more. Smile
Star Model
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:37 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
bethany wrote:
BTW, who has Dr. P's book other than me?


Not me. I always thought the book was an organized version of what he has on the website - and heaven knows, I've read all of that stuff!


I have Dr. P's book. It is a good guideline, but as things progress he updates info on the SB site.

He supposedly has a new version due out.
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:46 am      Reply with quote
Sm - Thanks for taking the time to write these tips out.
Good point about the cookie cutter approach for most products. ...*Open jar, put cream on face every night*.....

I prefer the idea of individualizing the approach. This makes sense. It also takes more time and attention; which may not work for everyone.

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Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:29 am      Reply with quote
Individualizing the treatment is optimal, but knowing how to modify the treatment to meet your needs is tricky. For most of us, it seems to be a matter of hit-or-miss for extended periods of time. I think the CPs are helping me, but I still have my old acne scars. I don't think most people would ever notice them, but they're what I see when I look at myself up close, so if anything got rid of those, I'd consider it a miracle treatment!

Star, your protocol is similar to mine. I would add to that rolling, which I resisted for months (this month marks my one-year EDS anniversary!) Now, after 3 mos of rolling, I not only like the process but can appreciate what appear to be results. My skin is very resistant to anything--no peelies with retin-A, not much reaction to anything I do to it.
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:40 am      Reply with quote
Hermosa, I'm glad to hear you're seeing some progress with your skin. But, if you don't think the old acne scars are remodeling fast enough, read this post from the Skin Bio forum on how JW removed his pitted scars from chicken pox and a punch excision. He used spot treating with some strong exfoliators (12.5% BHA)and strong CPs and actually was quite successful. It's pretty long, or I'd print it here. He(or she, I'm not sure) does a great job of detailing his routine.

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7270023352/m/9150019263?r=1470038363

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bethany
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:00 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
bethany wrote:
BTW, who has Dr. P's book other than me?


Not me. I always thought the book was an organized version of what he has on the website - and heaven knows, I've read all of that stuff!


There is some additional detail...otherwise he wouldn't have been able to charge for it! And as I recall, he was planning to come out with an updated version at some point.

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Star Model
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:30 am      Reply with quote
I double checked with Dr. Pickart regarding the fragility of GHK.

He said to keep Hydroxy's away from GHK, but Retin-A will not reduce it's effectiveness.

It is probably a good idea to alternate Retin-A and Hydroxy's (Like every other night or so) to get the benefits of both.

Some people mix Retin-A into their CP of choice at night. This will reduce Retin-A's possible side effects and you will still get partial benefits (not full) from the Retin-A.

Retin-A *before, with or after* CPs does NOT reduce CPs or GHK's effectiveness.
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Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:58 pm      Reply with quote
thanks Star.

Bumping this thread up for Alexes - hope she sees it.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:50 am      Reply with quote
I just received my super CP serum. I used 1 drop and diluted it with quite a few drops of water until it turned colourless. Im only using it on my scars so I used a q tip to apply the liquid. Because the q tip is very absorbent, Im not sure if I applied enough on my scars. Should I just use my fingers or are there other ways to apply?
Can I use the lemon peel bioferment before the CP serum? Im not sure how to incorporate the CP serum with my other skincare products.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:00 am      Reply with quote
Sister sweets - you aresweet to send me here!
Foxe - I am so glad you mentioned your eyes. The crepey skin above my eyes sounds exactly like yours used to be. I received Night Eyes as a bonus but it was not the gentler one. Should I dilute it with water until I am used to it?
As well, I have recently acquired bags due to drastically thinned skin, and I really want to use the CP serum or Night Eyes on the bags in hopes of tightening the area. Has anyone had any success with under eye bags? Fear of making the skin looser holds me back.
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:12 am      Reply with quote
alexes - you should defintely dilute the Night Eyes somehow, but it being a cream makes it a little harder to do. You can use just a little of it or alternate days to start. You can also use Emu oil underneath to buffer it. I used 2 other products (milder ones) on my eyes before moving up the NIght Eyes and I saw some uglies when I moved up(they did not last)

The CPs are strong, so respect that fact. Don't let it scare you, though. Just tread a little slower even though you might be impatient and want to see faster results.

I think the Night Eyes is gentler than the CP Serum for under you eyes, but you can also dilute the Serum easier, so it's up to you.

You should also add 1000mg Vitamin C and 1000mg MSM to your supplements. Adding these really helps the CPs work better. Vitamin C should be taken twice per day (500 mg each)

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:16 am      Reply with quote
faeriedust wrote:
I just received my super CP serum. I used 1 drop and diluted it with quite a few drops of water until it turned colourless. Im only using it on my scars so I used a q tip to apply the liquid. Because the q tip is very absorbent, Im not sure if I applied enough on my scars. Should I just use my fingers or are there other ways to apply?
Can I use the lemon peel bioferment before the CP serum? Im not sure how to incorporate the CP serum with my other skincare products.


If you are just spot treating scars, then don't dilute the Super CP Serum. I would just use a finger too. Any extra can go on the back of your hands (if you don't want to use on your face yet). Why aren't you using the serum on your whole face anyway? Your missing out on all the benefits of it by only spot treating.

It is hard to figure out how to incorporate all our beauty care products. I think you shoudld apply the lemon peel either 20 minutes before or 20 minutes after the CPs. This would allow them to work fairly well on their own for a while.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:25 am      Reply with quote
Hey Smile
Im not using it all over the face because Im a little terrified of the uglies. Im 23 so Im not sure if I should be using copper peptides that young? I feel safer spot treating the scars first. lol. Im not sure if I should use a dermaroller too to speed up the process?

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:20 pm      Reply with quote
faeriedust - you might be too young for use of CP's all over - I agree. What do you think Star Model and foxe?

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:55 pm      Reply with quote
She might be too young, yes. But, it would depend on the conditon of the rest of her skin beside having acne scars.

Anyway, don't dilute the super CP serum and if there is too much for one small spot, I wouldn't worry about spreading it a little further around that spot. I do remember spot treating with SC2X on some acne scars and it would really tingle until my skin got use to it. That tells you your skin isn't quite ready for it (yet). And, I did see a little 'looseness' (if that's what it was) around that spot on the normal skin. But, it only lasted until my skin was use to the newer CP.

With that said, use the Super CP undiluted on the spots only. IF you notice extreme itching or tingling, then back off a bit. Perhaps diluting the serum OR using emu underneath. You only need to do this until your skin can handle it.

A dermaroller would speed up the process. Perhaps the .5 model with the CPs for penetration. This would be a good combo. Also, you can try a single needle on some bad scars. That could go deeper than the .5 roller and break up scar tissue for you. A 1.5 roller can do that for a larger area. I personally don't like the 1.5 - it hurts too much.

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Star Model
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:54 pm      Reply with quote
faeriedust wrote:
Hey Smile
Im not using it all over the face because Im a little terrified of the uglies. Im 23 so Im not sure if I should be using copper peptides that young? I feel safer spot treating the scars first. lol. Im not sure if I should use a dermaroller too to speed up the process?


I think we need to start a new thread "What are the Uglies?" Shock

Faeriedust, If you are trying to remove scars then you are not too young for CPs. You will do better though using milder products to start just like everyone else - moving up slowly. Super CP for spot treating is fine, not all over. If it were me, I would use diluted CP Serum all over & spot treat a couple of times a week with Super CP Serum (not every night). You also need to use hydroxys to breakdown the scar tissue.

If going for the anti-aging thing, then 23 is definitely too young. But that is not your case. At around 35 is when new collagen production starts to diminish. So for anti-aging, you don't need CPs until then.

But, if you have scars your skin should respond to CPs at your age. Just don't go too strong or too fast. Spot treating and needling should help with your scars.

Hope that Helps! Smile
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Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:47 pm      Reply with quote
Star Model wrote:
I think we need to start a new thread "What are the Uglies?" Shock


I actually think that that is a very good idea!

Lot's of people (including myself) get turned off using CPs because of these so-called Uglies. I honestly think allot of it is due to the Placebo effect - we think we're going to get them, we search for them in the magnifying mirror - and, sure enough, there they are!

Star Model - perhaps you could fill us in on what Dr. Pickart actually has to say about the Uglies.

I'm actually back using Skin Biology products and my skin has never looked better - but I was actually determined not to look for the Uglies this time - and if I did see them, I was determined to work through them.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:48 pm      Reply with quote
Hi
thanks everyone for the replies. I'll use the CPS undiluted every alternative day. is 10% AHA strong enough as an exfoliant? SHould I use a TCA peel?

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:16 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu - What CP's are you using? Isn't that great that your skin is looking better than ever. I was very happy to read that.
I'm sure your perspecitve about the placebo effect is so true. A bad day or two and it would be easy to blame it on the CP's.

My skin to my eyes has been fresher, more radiant - hard to explain but younger looking - - maybe it's the CP's for me also. I felt like I was in a slump most of last year - nothing was working for me really. So this year I made some changes.
I started the regime at the same time as Spirulina, chlorella, Chia seeds and barley and also smoothies; really made a devoted nutrition transition although I was always neurotic that way.
Also Tanaka and daily facial exercise and dermarolling.
Keliu I hope you will continue sharing any CP results. I know when my skin started really looking great a few years back I was doing CP's with other things and thought it was the other things Laughing
I'm going to stick with it too.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:09 pm      Reply with quote
I'm using Exfol Serum, Skin Signals and Two Time Tightener.

I'm also obsessed with High Frequency treatments using the Palacia HF wand. I think these are making an enormous difference.

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Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:01 pm      Reply with quote
Hello, I am on Obagi Nuderm and looking for other things to incorporate into my regimen once I go on Nuderm maintenance. I was thinking of going straight to the CP serum but diluting it and using emu oil first on the eye area(main concern is hooded eyelid on one eye only which I've had since I was in my 20's).For the veteran users of CPs(and Nuderm), can you comment on my planned regimen please:

Mon
AM vitc, clear(hydroquinone)
PM CPserum,tret/blender
Tue
AM vit c, exfoderm(glycolic and lactic acid)
PM tret/blender
Wed
AM vit c, clear
PM tret/blender
Thu
AM vit c, exfoderm
PM cps, tret/blender
Fri
AM vit c, clear
PM tret/blender
Sat
AM vit c, exfoderm
PM cps, tret/blender

And of course a physical SS in the am and MMU. This regimen would give me 3x/wk use of clear and exfoderm, 2x/wk of CP and everyday of tretinoin. Thanks in advance!
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:53 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Star Model wrote:
I think we need to start a new thread "What are the Uglies?" Shock


I actually think that that is a very good idea!

Lot's of people (including myself) get turned off using CPs because of these so-called Uglies. I honestly think allot of it is due to the Placebo effect - we think we're going to get them, we search for them in the magnifying mirror - and, sure enough, there they are!

Star Model - perhaps you could fill us in on what Dr. Pickart actually has to say about the Uglies.

I'm actually back using Skin Biology products and my skin has never looked better - but I was actually determined not to look for the Uglies this time - and if I did see them, I was determined to work through them.


I agree. It is difficult to know if what are reported as "uglies" are actually attributable to the CPs or other factors. Actually, there seem to be more people overall with positive results from CPs than people with bad results. That's my impression anyway from reading the threads. And it's reassuring that some of the "veteran" skin care "connoisseurs" on this forum are reporting good results (I notice that some of you have been around on the forum for a long time and have tried quite a number of products and product lines).
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:27 pm      Reply with quote
m1rox wrote:
Keliu wrote:
Star Model wrote:
I think we need to start a new thread "What are the Uglies?" Shock


I actually think that that is a very good idea!

Lot's of people (including myself) get turned off using CPs because of these so-called Uglies. I honestly think allot of it is due to the Placebo effect - we think we're going to get them, we search for them in the magnifying mirror - and, sure enough, there they are!

Star Model - perhaps you could fill us in on what Dr. Pickart actually has to say about the Uglies.

I'm actually back using Skin Biology products and my skin has never looked better - but I was actually determined not to look for the Uglies this time - and if I did see them, I was determined to work through them.


I agree. It is difficult to know if what are reported as "uglies" are actually attributable to the CPs or other factors. Actually, there seem to be more people overall with positive results from CPs than people with bad results. That's my impression anyway from reading the threads. And it's reassuring that some of the "veteran" skin care "connoisseurs" on this forum are reporting good results (I notice that some of you have been around on the forum for a long time and have tried quite a number of products and product lines).


mlrox - Hey there
As a veteran of both years on EDS and product use that is a resounding yes on the Copper Peptides. I'm so glad to be back.
I was happy to see Keliu too and thanking foxe, Star and JJ Beachum for getting me up to speed once again.

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Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:56 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Sis, yes, you are one of the members from whom I have learnt a lot.

With some product lines, I get an uncomfortable feeling that the thread might be "influenced" somewhat by the company that manufactures or distributes the product. But at least with this thread, I have read the experiences of some of you trying other skincare lines with some "disappointments" along the way, so I know that you have a more balanced perspective and not exclusively set on one brand.
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:13 pm      Reply with quote
mlrox
I am so glad you said that. As a new member I had my doubts about some of the threads (and felt guilty about it!). But with these ladies I feel safe. They seem so intent on sharing what they have experienced - the good and bad - that I trust them. CPs are such powerful products that I really feel I need unbiased guidance, and I have found it here.
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