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ketchup
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:28 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
ketchup wrote:
So I does anyone know if cp's affect hyperkeratinization /cell proliferation. I know AHA's do, now,(in a positive way) thanks to a random stranger lol. I ran into someone at work and of course they had to ask about what i was doing to my skin (i broke out recently, again grr!). So i told them i was using retin a. She said to stop using it because its kicking my cell growth (she said proliferation) into "overdrive" causing clogged pores-cystic kind. I was shocked because i thought it was from other things like me working out (i run about every night).

So, i have to ask since im stopping retin a, will cp's do the same thing? I know that i will have to use AHA's more often now because what she said all makes since and explains why i could never totally get it under control. This would be great because retin a is expensive (no prescription) and also i've used it for a long time and im finding it more irritating now then i was then.


Your friend has it wrong - Retin A doesn't cause 'cell proliferation', rather it works as an excellent cell 'communicator' and helps the pores to shed it's contents rather than allowing the contents to clog up a pore. It will help your skin to shed the lining of the pores faster. Look at it this way:
Quote:
Retinol is the entire vitamin A molecule that can be broken down into thousands of smaller components, of which one is retinoic acid (also called tretinoin, the active ingredient in Renova and Retin-A). Skin cells have a receptor site that is very accepting of retinoic acid. This relationship between retinoic acid and a skin cell allows a type of communication in which the cell is told to function normally (that is, not like a damaged or older cell), and it can conform to that request.


I thought you were going through a bad breakout due to the acids you've been using the last 7 months or so? If your breakouts have been lasting that long, something else might be going on (like those workouts). Or, it could be hormones (something to think about).

Hyperkeritization is a buildup of skin cells - as if your skin cannot remove them on a timely basis. I have hyperkeratosis on my feet and am prescribed a topical cream to help remove the thick, dry skin. Acne can be cause by pores not shedding properly and Retin A can help the pores to behave more normally, by turning the cells over better and by shedding them as they are suppose to. I believe this person you ran into at work had it backwards. Rolling Eyes


Interesting and confusing. She filled my head with the wrong stuff?

I broke out last week after i over used acids. I asked for the day off and was give like a couple to re-coop as my boss felt sorry for me. I just babied my skin so to speak for a couple days and recovered somewhat as i still have some marks left over. I used retin a starting like last Friday and by this week i noticed the same areas i concentrated on are the same areas that broke out.

Hyperkeratosis? Does that make your feet tough? Specifically the heel and area after the arch? As a nurse my job requires lots of walking and I add to that when i run after work, so this is why i thought my feet were always "tough and hard."

Frustrating.Thats all I can say. I have a back up AHA that i've been using for those newer red marks and im going to stay with it as it has worked in the past just not on the deeper marks (thats why i went to stronger acids). Although I hate it because it makes me shiny and i dont know what I can do besides use less (maybe a mattifying moisturizer?).

Gawwh, its my weekend off and I can even enjoy it because im stressing over all this.

ps. Sorry to shove this thread off course. I dont mean too.

pss. I started using cp's on a scar i've had on my nose since i was a kid. Will update (i hope it works).
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Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:13 pm      Reply with quote
ketchup - did you just start using Retin A this past Friday? Only about a week's worth of use?

Retin A causes purging in the beginning of use and needs to be used for at least 7 weeks before improvements in acne begin for most people. That is written in the literature that comes with prescription Retin A.

In fact, after re-reading the literature that came w/ my Retin A Micro, I see wording that might have confused your acquaintance - words like 'keritinzation' and 'epithelial cells'. I'm sure she just misunderstood the literature, as Retin A does NOT cause a build up of cells.

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pss. I started using cp's on a scar i've had on my nose since i was a kid. Will update (i hope it works


If you have an old scar like that, you should try the CPs along with the acids like your AHA AND an occasional poke with a single needle to break up the scar tissue. That's the method I've used on some old acne ice pick scars and they've been filling in. It's a long process and takes a lot of patience.

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ketchup
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Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:33 am      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
ketchup - did you just start using Retin A this past Friday? Only about a week's worth of use?

Retin A causes purging in the beginning of use and needs to be used for at least 7 weeks before improvements in acne begin for most people. That is written in the literature that comes with prescription Retin A.

In fact, after re-reading the literature that came w/ my Retin A Micro, I see wording that might have confused your acquaintance - words like 'keritinzation' and 'epithelial cells'. I'm sure she just misunderstood the literature, as Retin A does NOT cause a build up of cells.

Quote:
pss. I started using cp's on a scar i've had on my nose since i was a kid. Will update (i hope it works


If you have an old scar like that, you should try the CPs along with the acids like your AHA AND an occasional poke with a single needle to break up the scar tissue. That's the method I've used on some old acne ice pick scars and they've been filling in. It's a long process and takes a lot of patience.


I've been using retin a on and off inconsistently since November of '11. I went slow and then up'd my usage until to 4-5x a week. Then for some reason kind of stopped. I was using AHA's and it was going better imo. Then I figured i needed stronger AHA's and then went back to using retin a again. I'm terrible.

I've heard using a needle helps. I'm kind of reluctant to try as its sensitive to prodding and can turn red. Its a strange scar.. i got it from my sister when i was 3 and i dont know how. Although i used to pick at it (when i was 6-7)which probably made it worse as it became indented and has been like that forever Sad Does needling have drastic improvement over not?
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Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:57 am      Reply with quote
ketchup wrote:
Does needling have drastic improvement over not?


It all depends on how aggressive you needle the scar, how consistent you do it, how bad it is to begin with, along with how *your* skin heals.

I found my scars to be insensitive to the needle in the beginning. The scar tissue was very tough and needed to be broken up. Since it was scar tissue, there didn't seem to be any nerve endings in it. But, as the scarred skin was replaced with normal skin, nerve endings returned and it became more sensitive to the needle.

I did see some impressive improvement - but several months down the road. And, I'm not very consistent doing it myself, so it's been a slow process.

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ketchup
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Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:42 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
ketchup wrote:
Does needling have drastic improvement over not?


It all depends on how aggressive you needle the scar, how consistent you do it, how bad it is to begin with, along with how *your* skin heals.

I found my scars to be insensitive to the needle in the beginning. The scar tissue was very tough and needed to be broken up. Since it was scar tissue, there didn't seem to be any nerve endings in it. But, as the scarred skin was replaced with normal skin, nerve endings returned and it became more sensitive to the needle.

I did see some impressive improvement - but several months down the road. And, I'm not very consistent doing it myself, so it's been a slow process.


OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy crap... I am just so shocked.. this is unbelievable.

So I said I would update everyone on my weird, indented nose scar that happens to sit in the center of my nose on top close to the middle of my brows. I personally would consider pretty deep. Well this morning I just happened to notice that its like hardly even noticeable and is almost smooth to the touch (where as I could DEFINITELY feel it before). Awhh! I'm like freaking out! I just thought I was stuck with this for life and got used to it over time. I am over joyed.


I should add that I am taking MSM and Vitamin C as Dr. P says for scar therapy. So I'm guessing this is helping and why I've seen results only after a couple treatments.
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Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:36 pm      Reply with quote
weluvnik wrote:
Thank you for the suggestion, Foxe. I thought about using the lacsal in the evening for just that reason -- so I could just put it on last and forget it! But I can't find a makeup that I like that doesn't contain zinc. I understand zinc is a no-no with copper peptides, so I guess am stuck using the cps at night.


No problem! If you don't feel like plopping down $80 for a full size tuck, you can also purchase a 1/2 size sample for $38 at NCN Pro Skincare.

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Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:37 pm      Reply with quote
Anyone have success with minimizing keloid scars? I had success with indented scarring, but either I'm doing it wrong or I'm not patient enough to continue with the keloid on my chin.

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:17 am      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:
rileygirl wrote:


Speaking of TGF Beta 1 reaction, doesn't Dr. Pickart say something like this about Retin A, also, or am I thinking about something else? Would you know anything about that, Bren?


Hi Riley,
I just asked the same question on the Skin Bio Forum. I think they were saying that using Retin A during the scar removal process was not a good idea because of the TGF Beta 1 proteins forming. I use Retin A with my CPs. I hope this is ok. I'll let everyone know the answer.


Dr. Pickart answered my question regarding this. Here is the link http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/7661080436. So, I guess it's ok to use Retin A with CPs. As usual, I am still not sure. The Retin A does form the TGF-beta-1 proteins. The CPs suppress TGF-beta-1. This may be adequate if you use CPs and Retin A together. Adequate, doesn't sound too good to me. It's hard to get a clear explanation over there. For example, in some threads Skin Bio says don't use Vitamin C at the same time as CPs. Then in other threads Skin Bio says they have many customers that use them together and have great results. I really don't like ambiguous answers. I don't want to play around with my skin and see damage in the future.
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Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:34 am      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:


Dr. Pickart answered my question regarding this. Here is the link http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4570023352/m/7661080436. So, I guess it's ok to use Retin A with CPs. As usual, I am still not sure. The Retin A does form the TGF-beta-1 proteins. The CPs suppress TGF-beta-1. This may be adequate if you use CPs and Retin A together. Adequate, doesn't sound too good to me. It's hard to get a clear explanation over there. For example, in some threads Skin Bio says don't use Vitamin C at the same time as CPs. Then in other threads Skin Bio says they have many customers that use them together and have great results. I really don't like ambiguous answers. I don't want to play around with my skin and see damage in the future.


I had the same confusing information from the lady who took my order about 1 year ago pacratmack. I had concerns about both Vit. C serum and also my physical sunscreen, she said that Dr. Pickart had reevaluated on those things and it was ok. She said many customers use CP's with C serums/creams and physical sunscreens without any issues at all, including herself for many years. Yet I still see where it is supposed to be a bad idea to use either together with CP's? It all is just too confusing when you get conflicting information from a consumer rep. as well as the actual formulator! I have been left with no idea which way to go and just like you I have no desire to turn my face into a science experiment! Shock

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:02 am      Reply with quote
Happy to report that after taking Foxe's advice there is definite improvement under the eye area after taking the last 3 nights off CP's. I did, however, partake in an all day organized pub crawl in Milwaukee over the weekend with 3500 other participants...so I probably didn't get as much improvement as I would have had I gotten a bit more sleep and a little less alcohol in my system Laughing

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Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:30 am      Reply with quote
I had used CP (first & second generation) for few months; no uglies but too early to see improvement before Retin-A. I am now a Retin-A user.

After all, my plan is to keep using Retin-A nightly for 2 years (as Dr. Pickart & Dr. Bailey recommended)and then will use CP & Retin-A every other night because I don't want to use AHA/BHA in the morning and also I believe that both of them are "strong" active and it is better for me to use one each time.
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Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:20 am      Reply with quote
Ava with wings wrote:
Anyone have success with minimizing keloid scars? I had success with indented scarring, but either I'm doing it wrong or I'm not patient enough to continue with the keloid on my chin.


Those are raised scars, right? If so I have a scar from a cortisone shot i got last year for a cyst. I believe it healed too quickly? as it became hypo-pigmented and is "raised" or elevated from the surrounding tissue. Well along with my nose scar which is almost non-existent today I started dabbing cp's on it and its turning color and some what smaller. So far so good.

HTH
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Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
Ava with wings wrote:
Anyone have success with minimizing keloid scars? I had success with indented scarring, but either I'm doing it wrong or I'm not patient enough to continue with the keloid on my chin.


Many forum member on Skin Bio's forum have posted about keloids. Dr Pickart has said many customers have had success w/ keloids, too.

Quote:
Many clients tell me that they remove keloid scars. The CPs suppress TGF-beta (the scar forming protein) in keloid fibroblasts.


Arch Facial Plast Surg. 2001 Jan-Mar;3(1):28-32.Click here to read Links
The effect of copper tripeptide and tretinoin on growth factor production in a serum-free fibroblast model.
McCormack MC, Nowak KC, Koch RJ.

Division of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, Stanford University Medical Center, Stanford, Calif 94305-5328, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of copper tripeptide and tretinoin on normal and keloid-producing dermal fibroblasts in a serum-free in vitro model. The cellular response was described in terms of viability and secretion of basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF) and transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1). METHODS: Primary cell lines were established from patient facial skin samples obtained during surgery and plated in serum-free media. At 0 hour, copper tripeptide (1 x 10 (-9) mol/L), tretinoin (1 x 10 (-5) mol/L), or appropriate control vehicle was added. Cell counts and viability were established at 24, 72, and 120 hours. Supernatants were collected at the same intervals and were assessed for bFGF and TGF-beta1 concentrations using the enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay technique. RESULTS: Cell lines showed viability between 86% and 96% (mean, 92%) throughout the experiment. Tretinoin-treated normal fibroblasts secreted more bFGF than did controls at 24 hours (P<.05). Tretinoin-treated keloid-producing fibroblasts secreted more TGF-beta1 than did controls at 120 hours (P<.05). Keloid-producing fibroblasts treated with copper tripeptide secreted less TGF-beta1 than did controls at 24 hours (P<.05); a similar trend was observed in normal fibroblasts. CONCLUSIONS: Normal fibroblasts treated with tretinoin produced more bFGF than did controls, and this might partially explain the clinically observed tightening effects of tretinoin. Normal and keloid-producing dermal fibroblasts treated with copper tripeptide secreted less TGF-beta1 than did controls, suggesting a possible clinical use for decreasing excessive scar formation.


If you do a search on the SB forum, I'm sure you'll find lots of responses. It seems a successful routine is to use a microfiber cloth, an AHA and a strong CP like the Super Cop 2X.

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Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:09 am      Reply with quote
I've decided to ease back on Skin Signals around the eyes...they are back to being saggy after 1 night of applying it around my eyes again. So last night, I just applied up to the cheekbone. Will probably just use the SSC no more than 2 nights a week around the eyes until they can handle it better, perhaps even just once a week. The rest of the face is still holding up well.

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Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:17 pm      Reply with quote
Hi ladies, I just want to post something positive that just happened.... since I began using cps a couple of months ago, I have been really scrutinizing my face in the mirror and not really seeing much of a difference. Well a friend had a party a couple of weeks ago and she just sent me a picture from that day... I am so pleased with how good my skin looks! Maybe I have been looking too closely and not really seeing the overall changes. Anyhow, I wanted to post this to anyone who is getting discouraged (as I was starting to be). Even my eyes looked bright in the picture, even though I thought they were not looking so good in the mirror. Who knows, it may have just been a good photo, but I guess I'll keep plugging along with my routine. Smile
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Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:23 am      Reply with quote
weluvnik wrote:
Hi ladies, I just want to post something positive that just happened.... since I began using cps a couple of months ago, I have been really scrutinizing my face in the mirror and not really seeing much of a difference. Well a friend had a party a couple of weeks ago and she just sent me a picture from that day... I am so pleased with how good my skin looks! Maybe I have been looking too closely and not really seeing the overall changes. Anyhow, I wanted to post this to anyone who is getting discouraged (as I was starting to be). Even my eyes looked bright in the picture, even though I thought they were not looking so good in the mirror. Who knows, it may have just been a good photo, but I guess I'll keep plugging along with my routine. Smile


We are our harshest critics and it usually takes someone else saying "Wow, you look great!" to actually take notice what is happening with ourselves. Glad to hear that things are going well for you and it always great to hear progress to keep us all plugging along! Very Happy

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Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:33 am      Reply with quote
What a great thread! I have not read it all and my questions might have been addressed, so please forgive me.

I started to look into CP's again for some scarring and found this thread. I have tried them off and on in the past but never stuck to it or did it right. After talking to the woman at SB I decided it might be a good thing for me to use all over my face.

The problem is, I have surface dryness these days because I have increased things I am doing in a desperate attempt to address my mid 50's melting face. Due to a change in my work situation I finally had some time to take a look at myself and I got scared. I had gadgets and programs collecting dust that I pulled out and also purchased more. I have started up with regular exercises with skin handling, massage, AALS, Tua Trend, Safetox, Vaculifter and I am losing weight. I do not do everything every day except Safetox and some exercises. If I look really bad I take a few days off and do something simple like a Tanaka massage. So far my face looks great right after doing routines/treatments but it does not last. Particularly in the evening -- I look good for an few hours only! I must say my jaw line and double chin has improved! I really target that area though. I think the weight loss had a lot to do with it even though so far only 5 lbs. But on me that is a lot. Also I am pretty aggressive with exercises. This is taking far too much time and it can't continue this way but I am hoping once I reach a maintenance level with some of these things it will be better. Also I might rule some things out. I can pretty much tell what is improving what.

So right now, I feel only slightly sensitive with the surface dryness. It seems to be improving as I am finding better ways of treating it. I am hoping this is just my skin getting used to all of this.


My concern is the exfoliation because I don't want to make the dryness worse. I have never responded well to acids and I am already doing a lot to my skin. Is it necessary to do this with CP's? I used to do acids all the time but my skin did not look healthy. It was thinner and waxier looking and I had recurring red irritation spots. I was told my skin had become very reactive almost the way Rosacea skin is because of the acids. I understand with CP you are healing after the exfoliation and I was definitely not doing that. I stopped with all acids a number of years ago and my skin looked so much better. After a few years though, I was not liking my skin texture and that was the trade off. I have been using the 302 line for a number of years but could not handle any of of the exfoliation products. Once in a while I was doing a pumpkin mask and a manual exfoliation mask a few times a week.

I think Nanci at NCN says she is also not a fan of frequent acid exfoliation but she uses CP's. Is she getting the exfoliation from Retinols? I was thinking of trying her Trans Retinol a few days a week. Do you think that might be enough? I kind of think I might be giving myself lots of manual exfoliation anyway (most likely to much) with all that I am doing and that is why I am have dry crusty patches.

What do you guys think I should do? Do you think there is a way I can try to fit CP's in?
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Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:23 am      Reply with quote
Hi there MD Very Happy

I would think manual exfoliation with a microfiber cloth or even a Clarisonic or Pretika would be just fine on their own when using CP's if your skin cannot tolerate acids. In fact, I think Dr Pickart promotes manual exfoliation as well over at Skin Biology.

I happen to be a dry skinner too, but my skin handles acids quite well. Of course, my skin is not nearly as dry as it used to be...it used to be pretty bad. But I really like the LacSal cream and it seems fairly gentle on my skin.

I had tried CP Serum some time back but only did it for a few weeks and got worried about the uglies. I then won the $50 credit here at EDS and CP's crossed my mind once more so I thought I would give it a whirl again, but this time with Skin Signals Cream. I've been on it since Feb 9th and so far so good! I am up to nightly but the only thing is my eyes cannot tolerate it more than a night or 2 a week at this point. So taking it slow there.

As far as the dryness goes for you...perhaps you need to scale back on what you're doing and start off doing fewer things. I know we have the mind set that more is better with many things, but if you're having surface dryness issues due to the amount of things you're doing, your skin is telling you enough is enough and you need to scale back. Pick a few things that you want to do for your skin at this point and only do those...eventually you can add more things if you'd like or reevaluate and swap methods.

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Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:03 pm      Reply with quote
Skin Bio's acids are very mild. I really like the LacSal Cream too. You definitely do not have to use the acids for exfoliation while using the CPs. I use mostly manual exfoliation methods. I mix in the acids once in a while.
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:03 am      Reply with quote
Hi foxe, I'd like to ask for your advice. The answer seems like it would be obvious, but I just wanted to check. I have been using SS Cream and GHK Serum under my eyes for the past year. I alternate them every other night. I think I would like to try the CP Serum under my eyes for a while. I have never used it before. SS Cream is a 7 on the CP scale and CP Serum is a 3. I was thinking that since the CP Serum is milder that I would not have to be cautious with it. On the other hand, it would be the first time I used a straight 2nd generation CP on my face. Should I still go slow with it? I never had any problems with my other CPs. Thank you.
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:45 am      Reply with quote
Hi Bren,

My skin took a nice turn for the better overnight! I actually exfoliated MORE. Looks like the dryness was just skin that was not sloughing off fast enough. I knew I was not sensitive underneath so I was not hurting myself. Also even though I have good cleansers I am not toning and I think I have to do that because my surface can tend to get stripped with even the best cleansers it seems.

I did a scrubber treatment earlier in the evening to clean my pores. I love seeing the stuff pop out on the blade. Yes I have a ton of tools things on my shelf! I would love a professional scrubber but they are too expensive. I have one called Ezzi Peel. It also exfoliates very lightly. Then later on in the day I used this metal face file I have for getting rid of brown spots but you can use all over the face. It is a strange thing and it is quite gentle. They also have one for the body that I would love to get. I went all over my face lightly but targeted the scars. When I looked at them closer they are not deep at all. I don't think I have to take a needle to them. What I have more of are just enlarged pores that look like tough scars but are not. Does that make sense. I see them on my chin and cheeks mostly.

I had some skin signals serum left so I diluted it and put that all over and pressed in some old Super Cop 2X I has lying around from years ago. They said it was probably still ok and that the stuff has been known to stay potent for 5 years. It stung a little but fine. Oh, then I covered everything with a mix of moisturizer with lanolin added. This morning the hole on my chin looked darker but overall my face felt great. Much smoother.

I have a Clarisonic and Microfiber cloths so if those are ok for exfoliating before the CP's then I will do that. I have to get the super gentle brush for the Clarisonic if I an going to use it more often though. And for the scars I can definitely go stronger. They are just spots and I am doing only a few at a time. What about a strong Lactic Acid? Do you think we have to use really strong acid for the scars anyway or the gentle ones are fine? I know some people use TCA!

The Skin Signals cream is an interesting option. I might look into that as well. By the way what do you think of TTT? You are still young, I can't imagine you have any serious lifting to do!

Thanks. Smile
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Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:41 am      Reply with quote
packratmack wrote:
Hi foxe, I'd like to ask for your advice. The answer seems like it would be obvious, but I just wanted to check. I have been using SS Cream and GHK Serum under my eyes for the past year. I alternate them every other night. I think I would like to try the CP Serum under my eyes for a while. I have never used it before. SS Cream is a 7 on the CP scale and CP Serum is a 3. I was thinking that since the CP Serum is milder that I would not have to be cautious with it. On the other hand, it would be the first time I used a straight 2nd generation CP on my face. Should I still go slow with it? I never had any problems with my other CPs. Thank you.


The CP Serum is thinner than the GHK Serum, and my thinking is a cream is nicer for the eye area. That said, I do use the CP Serum under my eyes once in a while anyway. If you do use that, you might want to top it off with an oil since the serums don't have any lipids (oils) in them.

If your skin handled the SS Cream well, then going full strength w/ the CP Serum should be alright. If you notice any slackness, though, you'll know to back off.

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Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:58 pm      Reply with quote
Hi foxe, thanks for the advice. I never realized the GHK serum was thicker than the CP serum. It is so much easier to spread. I think I may be overusing the CP serum because it is so thin. Do you have any tricks to overcome this? Since you've been using CPs for a while, I was wondering if you knew how many drops of CP serum you use to cover your face and neck? Thanks again.
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Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:32 am      Reply with quote
mommydearest wrote:
Hi Bren,

My skin took a nice turn for the better overnight! I actually exfoliated MORE. Looks like the dryness was just skin that was not sloughing off fast enough. I knew I was not sensitive underneath so I was not hurting myself. Also even though I have good cleansers I am not toning and I think I have to do that because my surface can tend to get stripped with even the best cleansers it seems.

I did a scrubber treatment earlier in the evening to clean my pores. I love seeing the stuff pop out on the blade. Yes I have a ton of tools things on my shelf! I would love a professional scrubber but they are too expensive. I have one called Ezzi Peel. It also exfoliates very lightly. Then later on in the day I used this metal face file I have for getting rid of brown spots but you can use all over the face. It is a strange thing and it is quite gentle. They also have one for the body that I would love to get. I went all over my face lightly but targeted the scars. When I looked at them closer they are not deep at all. I don't think I have to take a needle to them. What I have more of are just enlarged pores that look like tough scars but are not. Does that make sense. I see them on my chin and cheeks mostly.

I had some skin signals serum left so I diluted it and put that all over and pressed in some old Super Cop 2X I has lying around from years ago. They said it was probably still ok and that the stuff has been known to stay potent for 5 years. It stung a little but fine. Oh, then I covered everything with a mix of moisturizer with lanolin added. This morning the hole on my chin looked darker but overall my face felt great. Much smoother.

I have a Clarisonic and Microfiber cloths so if those are ok for exfoliating before the CP's then I will do that. I have to get the super gentle brush for the Clarisonic if I an going to use it more often though. And for the scars I can definitely go stronger. They are just spots and I am doing only a few at a time. What about a strong Lactic Acid? Do you think we have to use really strong acid for the scars anyway or the gentle ones are fine? I know some people use TCA!

The Skin Signals cream is an interesting option. I might look into that as well. By the way what do you think of TTT? You are still young, I can't imagine you have any serious lifting to do!

Thanks. Smile


Glad things are going well for you! I am sure the Clarisonic and microfiber cloth would be just fine....I own the Pretika but wish I had a Clarisonic! I hear they are well loved and work great.
I am not a toner either...I think dry skin people should shy away from that myself and don't need it. Plus, that's just an extra step that I really don't feel like throwing in there...I think I do enough already!! Laughing

I really like the TTT and apply it as the last step before my makeup. I have volume loss in my cheeks which makes the skin on my face a little bit slack. I don't have severe sagging...but it is enough for me to notice. My under eyes are my biggest issue it seems these days. Which is why I scaled back on the SSC under my eyes. Besides all the volume loss in my cheeks, I wear contacts and I can't help but feel all those years of tugging and pulling down my under eye area from putting in my contacts has taken its toll.

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Female: 42...Fair/Dry...Brown Hair/Green Eyes...Using: Born Again MSM Cream...Country Divine Emu Serum...Juvederm...Botox...Retin-A .05%...Easy Eye Solutions...Started 2/9/12 with Skin Bio Skin Signals Cream and TTT, Spot treating with TriRed
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Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:55 pm      Reply with quote
Does anyone know how long CPs are good for? I have many products with a date of April 2011. I noticed that when I receive new products, they were always manufactured several months before. Is there any reliable information regarding this? Thanks.
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