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Skin Biology's Copper Peptides

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salli
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Wed May 23, 2012 4:11 pm      Reply with quote
I spoke with a lady at sb yesterday that said to use the retin a and then 30-45 minutes later use your cp's. Yes? No? I am restarting cp's after about an 8 month break and am hoping to do so remodeling. My main problem is marionnette lines. I asked yesterday and was told that super cop x2 along with retin a would do it. I have been using retin a off and on for about 3 months and at this point it isn't irritating my skin any longer so I feel safe in spot treating with sc x2. I'm also contemplating using some super cp serum (diluted) for my eyes along with a moisturizer on top. I will also be adding SS during the day and was thinking of getting some P&R to use as a daytime moisturizer. I'm also using cp accelerator at night as a moisturizer. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. I am prepared to go through some uglies.

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Wed May 23, 2012 4:26 pm      Reply with quote
salli wrote:
I spoke with a lady at sb yesterday that said to use the retin a and then 30-45 minutes later use your cp's. Yes? No? I am restarting cp's after about an 8 month break and am hoping to do so remodeling. My main problem is marionnette lines. I asked yesterday and was told that super cop x2 along with retin a would do it. I have been using retin a off and on for about 3 months and at this point it isn't irritating my skin any longer so I feel safe in spot treating with sc x2. I'm also contemplating using some super cp serum (diluted) for my eyes along with a moisturizer on top. I will also be adding SS during the day and was thinking of getting some P&R to use as a daytime moisturizer. I'm also using cp accelerator at night as a moisturizer. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. I am prepared to go through some uglies.


That sounds like a CP grand plan Smile... I have similar goals of remodeling and skin firming. Right now I'm using Super CP Serum on my entire face including eyelids (no diluting). No uglies at any point thankfully...and now I'm contemplating adding SS and TTT. What is your plan for am and pm?

Since I also use glycolic 15% it's tough to wait the 20 minutes before applying CPs so I've just been doing it once a day (and when I use ultrasound for penetration). I need to start the super cop x2 for laugh lines... forgot about that so thanks for the reminder. Would love to know more about your schedule for all these CP products!

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Wed May 23, 2012 4:58 pm      Reply with quote
I have used cp's for years. Then laid off for a bit. I hoping this works. I've never done much with super cop x2. I'm hoping to at least lessen the marionnettes and my 11's over the next 90 days. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions for a better plan before I place an order.

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Wed May 23, 2012 6:01 pm      Reply with quote
salli - it sounds like you're in for some major remodeling (SC2X and Super CP Serum)

What you've laid out sounds fine to me. Let us know how it goes - K?

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Wed May 23, 2012 6:19 pm      Reply with quote
LoriA wrote:
foxe wrote:

I wouldn't use CPs with a zinc based product like your Devita, though. Dr Pickart has said the zinc binds to the CPs and *may* interfere with it. No sense buying a skincare product only to use it with something that might render it ineffective. Use your vit C in the morning instead. Then alternate the Retin A w/ the CPs or use the CPs first and then apply the retin A after the CPs absorb.


Hi Foxe, you indicated in that last line that I could apply my super ghk & then tretinoin after, which I've been doing from time to time when I've been too lazy and missed a night of one or the other.
I happened to glance at the first page of the thread today where you've written:
"What can’t you use them with
First generation CPs (e.g.Neova/Neutrogena) are not stable when used with acids so you cannot combine them with AHAs, BHAs, Retin A etc."
so I'm nervous. I'm probably misunderstanding something or maybe the data changed since then so I thought I'd check. Could you clarify?

My skin's looking fabulous these days, so thanks again!


The GHK-Cu is the first generation CP that Dr Pickart discovered and has developed. It is also the one used by Procyte(Neova) and Neutrogena. Dr Pickart found that the GHK was very fragile. Enzymes broke it down very fast. So he developed the 2nd generation copper peptides to be breakdown resistant and had them designed with skin care in mind (rather than wound healing which is what the GHK was first developed for). The 2nd gen CPs CAN handle being exposed to acids like AHAs and BHAs where the GHK cannot.

So, the advice is to use a GHK CP at a separate time of day than an acid. The 2nd gen CPs can be with an acid with no problems.

On the Retin A and GHK-Cu CPs, I have changed my opinion on that. I have found that a lot of retinoids have a higher pH than I previously thought. I know my Retin A Micro has a pH close to 6 as did the Tazorac I used prior to RAM. If your retinoid has a low pH (like an acid - which should be close to 3.5 or lower to be effective), then it might cause a problem with a GHK CP. Retinoids are different than acids like beta or alpha hydroxy ones, so this might explain your experience.

At Skin Biology - the only products they sell that have the GHK-Cu in them are the Super GHK Serum, Super GHK Cream and the Skin Signals Cream (which is a mix of the 1st and 2nd gens). All the rest have the 2nd gen CPs in them (and there are a LOT of products!)

Of course - if you're having success doing the routine you have now - stick with it!! (FYI- I use to apply my Retin A, wait 45 min to an hour, and then my CPs and had GREAT results w/ that method) You have to trial things out for yourself to see what works for YOU.

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Thu May 24, 2012 10:22 am      Reply with quote
Thanks so much Foxe! I didn't look into cp's properly, or take the time to review this (whole!) thread, so it felt like a blind leap of faith thing. Its reassuring to have your guidance and my concerns concisely explained.

One more thing, does it matter whether I apply tretinoin or super ghk serum first?

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Thu May 24, 2012 7:43 pm      Reply with quote
Lori - probably not. But, if you do the Retin A first, let it rest a good 45 mins or so. That's a product that needs that long to do it's thing. You could probably wait less time with the GHK first. Also, if you use a serum for the GHK, that should go first. The rule of thumb for product layering is thinner goes before thicker for absorbancy reasons. A serum, then a gel, then a cream, then an oil. A serum will absorb faster than a gel, etc.

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Sun May 27, 2012 11:08 pm      Reply with quote
Thank you Foxe! I saw your post the other day but was too caught up to write. I'm now layering without hesitation!

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Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds.
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Mon May 28, 2012 7:50 pm      Reply with quote
That was a good tip foxe! I use the GHK and find it gives me all I need in a CP. I do have some CP serum and Skin signals serum, but just prefer GHK. I use the cream around my eyes and the serum elsewhere. Some people simply cannot use the stronger products. I do use the Super Cop on a very limited basis for scars but am careful not to get it near my under eyes or lids.
What works best for me is to alternate RA and CP nights. I do love the CP "glow" though.
Luminosity
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Tue May 29, 2012 2:52 pm      Reply with quote
Luminosity wrote:
salli wrote:
I spoke with a lady at sb yesterday that said to use the retin a and then 30-45 minutes later use your cp's. Yes? No? I am restarting cp's after about an 8 month break and am hoping to do so remodeling. My main problem is marionnette lines. I asked yesterday and was told that super cop x2 along with retin a would do it. I have been using retin a off and on for about 3 months and at this point it isn't irritating my skin any longer so I feel safe in spot treating with sc x2. I'm also contemplating using some super cp serum (diluted) for my eyes along with a moisturizer on top. I will also be adding SS during the day and was thinking of getting some P&R to use as a daytime moisturizer. I'm also using cp accelerator at night as a moisturizer. I would appreciate your thoughts on this. I am prepared to go through some uglies.


That sounds like a CP grand plan Smile... I have similar goals of remodeling and skin firming. Right now I'm using Super CP Serum on my entire face including eyelids (no diluting). No uglies at any point thankfully...and now I'm contemplating adding SS and TTT. What is your plan for am and pm?

Since I also use glycolic 15% it's tough to wait the 20 minutes before applying CPs so I've just been doing it once a day (and when I use ultrasound for penetration). I need to start the super cop x2 for laugh lines... forgot about that so thanks for the reminder. Would love to know more about your schedule for all these CP products!


Wanted to give an update directly from Skin Biology regarding combining CP products:

Here is my FaceBook convo:

"I am confused with which product to get ... I love my Super CP Serum, but can I use this with SS and TTT? Or is that too much? I would like skin firming *and* remodeling if possible..."

And their response:

"Skin Biology Super CP has more Copper Peptides than Skin Signals Solution, but Skin Signals Solutions does do some different actions. You should not do both, and quite frankly if you already enjoy Super CP you should stick with it. You can use Two Timing Tightener with either product. You would put it on the areas you want to work last after putting either of the Copper Peptide Products."

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Tue May 29, 2012 3:11 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Luminosity. I did talk to Skin Biology and they said that I could use the SS during the day under the P&R.

Also to update, I am already seeing a difference with this regime. It seems my skin is loving it and it has only been a week.

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Tue May 29, 2012 3:41 pm      Reply with quote
salli wrote:
Thanks Luminosity. I did talk to Skin Biology and they said that I could use the SS during the day under the P&R.

Also to update, I am already seeing a difference with this regime. It seems my skin is loving it and it has only been a week.


Awesome! I think the SS and P&R are less strong (than say, Super CP Serum), so together they probably make a fantastic duo!

Now I'm excited to get the TT and bump up the process. Very Happy

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Tue May 29, 2012 4:17 pm      Reply with quote
I did want to add - I do not think you should use anything but GHK and Night Eyes on your eyes without getting the OK directly from the people at SB.
The eye area is very sensitive and will show it the most when you use too great a strength of CP. Please let us know what they say. Even when I was using a stronger CP, I could always feel it when I got Skin Signals too close to my eyes. And not in a good way...

I read your post again and saw that you were already using CP serum on your eyes. I guess if you are already using cp serum on your eyes and not having problems you must have eyelids of steel and know what you are doing. LOL Have you noticed any extra eyelash growth with the CP serum?
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Tue May 29, 2012 5:26 pm      Reply with quote
I haven't noticed any eyelash growth. I use the cp watered down significantly though.

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Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:23 am      Reply with quote
Have had some eyelid issues lately but nothing major. My eyes have been much better the last few years using CPs.
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:53 am      Reply with quote
Hello! I have been a member for years, although have not posted in some time and forgot both my screen name and password! So I created a new one and wrote it down this time! I often lurk here and have learned SO MUCH. So, thank you all.

I have a couple of questions I hope someone can help me with.

Regarding using RA at the same time as CPs (with wait time), is it okay to use RAM in this way, or just regular RA?

Second, regarding using CPs and Vitamin C. I use CPs at night, alternating with RAM. I use Vitamin C in the morning, alternating days with either AHA or SA from SkinBio.

I do wait the 12 hours in between the CP and the Vitamin C, but I have read that Vitamin C stays active for 72 hours. So, could it be interfering with the CPs even after the 12 hour wait? (or vice versa, as I am not sure which side has the problem, CP or Vitamin C).

I understand everything I read says 12 hours is fine, but wondering how it works if the C is still in the system. I use it every 48 hours, so...

Thank you to anyone who knows the answers or opinions!
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Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:32 pm      Reply with quote
Welcome back PaigeD64!
I'm pretty sure that like other websites & forums, you can have your password sent to your e-mail if you forget everything.

Excellent questions... eagerly anticipating the answers along with you! Smile

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Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:50 pm      Reply with quote
LoriA wrote:
Welcome back PaigeD64!
I'm pretty sure that like other websites & forums, you can have your password sent to your e-mail if you forget everything.

Excellent questions... eagerly anticipating the answers along with you! Smile


I am taking a stab in the dark with a guess here,

Just as we would have Vitamin C in all our cells from food and supplements (if taken) possibly once the topical C has absorbed to a cellular level and is being utilized by our cells, the interaction is different than if used within that 12 hour window?

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Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:22 am      Reply with quote
Thank you for the welcome LoriA! Ugh, I did that. I have three emails so I tried all three, but they require you to at least know your screen name to get the password, and I tried so many variations, with all my emails, and none of them worked. I was told that screen name didn't match to my emails! Then I went through some threads, trying to find myself, but gave up on that too, rather quickly as by then I was frustrated. This time at least I wrote it all down.

DarkMoon, thank you, that does make sense and I'm going to go with that! I know that the disadvantage of only putting C on every 2-3 days is that you are not getting the antioxidants you do if the serum is actually sitting on your skin. So does make sense that once absorbed, it is really no different than any other form of C. I never thought of it that way. Thank you!

Anybody know about the RA? The only reason I ask about the Micro is thinking that since the micro is "time released" maybe it is disadvantageous to be putting CPs on an hour later?

I know I can make a complication out of anything, and hope that's what I am doing. I don't want to go back to regular RA (too irritating for me, even at low grades), but I want to wear the CPs every night, not every other.
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Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:38 pm      Reply with quote
I'm 21 and have been using the ghk cream for two months now and am witnessing some promising and exciting results.

Ordinarily, I would never have chosen to touch copper peptides if I didn't have to due to the damage others have received from it, however, choice isn't a luxury I have as I am trying to heal damage from a microfiber cloth.

So basically I have noticed white islands of skin appear in the parts of my skin that are red and they are growing bigger, also in some of the red marks I can see what look like three white threads of skin that are sort of sewing the marks together? Ugh I'm not describing the phenomenon very well but I'm sure you get the picture.

I have also started using it on a cut mark which is a month old on my hand and white skin is filling in on that as well.
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Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am      Reply with quote
Just saw this on Skin Biology's website (haven't been there in a while). This has taken a long time for Dr. Pickart to get to this point, but he seems like he's finally fulfilled his hopes with filing a patent for copper peptides for use in skin remodeling with the 2nd generation CPs.

http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5220011852/m/8611057836

United States Patent 8,183,204
Pickart May 22, 2012
Methods and compositions for increasing skin remodeling

Abstract

Skin remodeling is stimulated at the site of blemished skin using an ionic metal-peptide complex to diminish or remove the skin imperfection. The blemish can be a scar, especially surgical or wound scars, acne scars, keloid scars, and the like, or a skin tag, callus, benign skin mole, stretch marks, facial keratosis, thickened sunspots of the skin, or a vitiligo spot. The peptide-ionic metal complex is comprised of an ionic metal selected from copper(II), tin(II), tin(IV), and zinc(II), and salts thereof, and the peptide component can be a hydrolysis of casein, collagen, elastin, meat products, silk protein, or soybean protein, or a chemically synthesized dipeptide, tripeptide, tetrapeptide or the like which complexes with the ionic metal.

The patent is at http://www.skinbiology.com/US-...Skin-Remodeling.html

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:41 am      Reply with quote
I care more about other users feedback about the products than whether there's a patent.

Basically you can patent any novelty idea that you invented, having a patents doesn't necessarily prove the theory in the patent is true.
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Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:14 am      Reply with quote
Hi everyone, this is my first post here on the forum. I just ordered the Super GHK cream. Usually I love serums but this one seemed more geared to oily skin, I on the dryer side. I've read the website description over and over and tried to read all the pages here. Is it a good place to start? I am 52, no really visible wrinkles except for a line on my forehead. Some very faint melasma on cheeks that I really have under control with Micro retin-A. Also, I do not leave the house without sunblock. I try to avoid tanning, etc. Other than the DIY C serum that I made from Kassy's recipe (she is a genius!) and the retin-A, this is my first big purchase that does not come out of a drugstore. I do exfoliate and I will use a yogurt/turmeric mask. Thank you for any responses.
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Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:55 am      Reply with quote
alkery wrote:
Hi everyone, this is my first post here on the forum. I just ordered the Super GHK cream. Usually I love serums but this one seemed more geared to oily skin, I on the dryer side. I've read the website description over and over and tried to read all the pages here. Is it a good place to start? I am 52, no really visible wrinkles except for a line on my forehead. Some very faint melasma on cheeks that I really have under control with Micro retin-A. Also, I do not leave the house without sunblock. I try to avoid tanning, etc. Other than the DIY C serum that I made from Kassy's recipe (she is a genius!) and the retin-A, this is my first big purchase that does not come out of a drugstore. I do exfoliate and I will use a yogurt/turmeric mask. Thank you for any responses.


A cream is a good place to start with drier skin and the GHK is also good since it's on the mild side. I also wouldn't worry about needing to move slowly with the Super GHK Cream since it is pretty mild.

Let us know how you like it. And I agree with you on Kassy!

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:57 am      Reply with quote
newusernew - there are plenty of users' feedback on this thread. There are others that might be interested in the patent, though. I did post that for all interested.

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