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free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:29 pm

That's great to hear you're seeing improvements at the 3 wk mark Leggy. I think I saw some around the 4 wk mark myself.

I'm loving the Skin Signals myself. And - I see that SB updated the page showing the strengths of various CPs. They put Skin Signals ABOVE Super CP Serum - meaning it's stronger than Super CP Serum.

For CP newbies out there - this just means take it easy with the Skin Signals when you're first starting out.

I do think they put it into that category since it might have a stronger effect on skin remodeling than the other CPs due to it's added collagen and elastin properties. JMO

sis - I have wanted to contribute to that Science thread since it's been run to the ground, but due to time constraints, have not been able to. I will try to soon.

Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:47 pm

foxe wrote:

Twinkle - why not alternate nights with LacSal one night and the Retin A the other with using the CPs nightly.

I have also had to deal with acne scars (several more after last years disastrous bout w/ 302 than I had when I first tried CPs) and I would use the acid/CP combo a couple times per day. Once at night all over and spot treat the scars a second time.

I use to use all 3 in one night, but now think yhat is too much

Thanks Foxe, I'll try the alternating that sounds like a good idea. So would I apply the LacSal before or after the Super CPs and how long do I wait in between?

Is it effective on the type of scarring that looks like it's disappeared if you stretch your skin tight? And what about scarring that has produced actual scar tissue as well? I have both along with a face full of red marks.

What do you use to moisturize? I'm so fearful of moisturizers breaking me out, so I don't use one at all but I'm really feeling like I need one and probably will even more when I add in the retin a and LacSal. Do SB do a good one that won't clog pores?

Thanks again.

free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:51 pm

Foxe,I must say,I am also using it with retin a and the AALS and vaculifer.But I am really liken the texture and smoothness it has made in my skin.I think I'm going start using it on my chest and arms,but am going for a higher one (I think)skin is thicker. Patience is not my strong suite but I am finding it to be so these days.

free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:08 pm

Twinkle66 wrote:

foxe wrote:

Twinkle - why not alternate nights with LacSal one night and the Retin A the other with using the CPs nightly.

I have also had to deal with acne scars (several more after last years disastrous bout w/ 302 than I had when I first tried CPs) and I would use the acid/CP combo a couple times per day. Once at night all over and spot treat the scars a second time.

I use to use all 3 in one night, but now think yhat is too much

Thanks Foxe, I'll try the alternating that sounds like a good idea. So would I apply the LacSal before or after the Super CPs and how long do I wait in between?

What do you use to moisturize? I'm so fearful of moisturizers breaking me out, so I don't use one at all but I'm really feeling like I need one and probably will even more when I add in the retin a and LacSal. Do SB do a good one that won't clog pores?

Thanks again.

Hey there Twinkle - You exfoliate (lacsal) before you put on CP's. Best to apply the lacsal and give it a good wait (30 minutes or more)before the CP's go on. Another option is to use lacsal in the morning and the CP's at night or vice versa. As far as moisturizing - use emu oil over the Cp's - this will increase their effect and give a moisturizing property. You can also use other facial oils such as hazlenut, rosehip, - dependent upon your skin needs. I usually wait about five minutes after the CP's and add the emu oil.
If you check out NCNproskincare.com site you will see Nanci has oils she recommends for putting over CP's.

free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:11 pm

Twinkle66 wrote:

Thanks Foxe, I'll try the alternating that sounds like a good idea. So would I apply the LacSal before or after the Super CPs and how long do I wait in between?

Is it effective on the type of scarring that looks like it's disappeared if you stretch your skin tight? And what about scarring that has produced actual scar tissue as well? I have both along with a face full of red marks.

What do you use to moisturize? I'm so fearful of moisturizers breaking me out, so I don't use one at all but I'm really feeling like I need one and probably will even more when I add in the retin a and LacSal. Do SB do a good one that won't clog pores?

Thanks again.

I would apply the LacSal first and give it a wait time to work of about 20-30 minutes. It is an acid with a pH of about 3.2 and needs that long to do its job. Then apply the CPs. Retin A might need longer since it has a longer half life (more technical info on that), but a good 45 minutes wait should work.

I found that for any type of scarring, that the exfoliator works to break up the scar tissue or slough it off and the CPs help to build up the new skin underneath. The old stuff comes off layer after layer and can take a long time depending on how many layers of damage there are. I found the red marks took forever to peel and heal, but you have nice skin left behind when its done.

For moisturizers, I really held off on trying the Emu Oil since I have extremely oily skin. But, I can recommend it - it does not cause breakouts. It doesn't always absorb right in like usual, so I prefer to use it at night. I only use one or two drops.

free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:13 pm

Hey sis - I see you and I posted about the same time! wave

Nice seeing ya here!

free skin care · Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:27 pm

Hey back at ya foxe.
Agree about the emu - I'm oily also and have had no problems at all with it - amazing!

Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:38 pm

sister sweets wrote:

Hey there Twinkle - You exfoliate (lacsal) before you put on CP's. Best to apply the lacsal and give it a good wait (30 minutes or more)before the CP's go on. Another option is to use lacsal in the morning and the CP's at night or vice versa. As far as moisturizing - use emu oil over the Cp's - this will increase their effect and give a moisturizing property. You can also use other facial oils such as hazlenut, rosehip, - dependent upon your skin needs. I usually wait about five minutes after the CP's and add the emu oil.
If you check out *** site you will see Nanci has oils she recommends for putting over CP's.

Sorry had to edit out the website as it wouldn't let me post it.

foxe wrote:

I would apply the LacSal first and give it a wait time to work of about 20-30 minutes. It is an acid with a pH of about 3.2 and needs that long to do its job. Then apply the CPs. Retin A might need longer since it has a longer half life (more technical info on that), but a good 45 minutes wait should work.

I found that for any type of scarring, that the exfoliator works to break up the scar tissue or slough it off and the CPs help to build up the new skin underneath. The old stuff comes off layer after layer and can take a long time depending on how many layers of damage there are. I found the red marks took forever to peel and heal, but you have nice skin left behind when its done.

For moisturizers, I really held off on trying the Emu Oil since I have extremely oily skin. But, I can recommend it - it does not cause breakouts. It doesn't always absorb right in like usual, so I prefer to use it at night. I only use one or two drops.

Thanks very much to you both. Unfortunately I can't use Emu oil as I'm a vegetarian. I'm also very scared of the word oil as I had very severe acne before my accutane treatment. I know that not all oils are bad but I had such a bad experience trying OCM for a while that I don't know if I'd want to try oils again. I will have a look at the NCN website though. What about squalane?

Sorry Foxe I meant Retin A micro, I got lazy and forgot to type the micro. Didn't you say before that with Retin A micro you can apply the CPs then just wait 10 mins then apply the RA micro?

I've just had a look in my cupboard and found a bottle of virtually unused 2% bha liquid. Can I use this in the place of LacSal? After reading about it a bit more on the SB website I think it's probably way to strong for my accutane skin at the moment. And the next level down appears to be the Exfol serum, which looks like it's just a 2% bha serum with very similar ingredients to the one I already have.

free skin care · Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:34 pm

I just got a reply on my question regarding the effects of getting Folligen in the eyes. Here was Dr. Pickart's response:

Quote:

No, there should be no problem with eye irritation.

A large company was testing Folligen and said they did a rabbit eye irritation test with Folligen and there was no irritation.

I did not know they would do this test. I would not have done it.

free skin care · Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:42 am

moosejavian wrote:

I just got a reply on my question regarding the effects of getting Folligen in the eyes. Here was Dr. Pickart's response:

Quote:

No, there should be no problem with eye irritation.

A large company was testing Folligen and said they did a rabbit eye irritation test with Folligen and there was no irritation.

I did not know they would do this test. I would not have done it.

That's good to hear. Thanks for checking into that.

free skin care · Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:00 am

Twinkle66 wrote:

Thanks very much to you both. Unfortunately I can't use Emu oil as I'm a vegetarian. I'm also very scared of the word oil as I had very severe acne before my accutane treatment. I know that not all oils are bad but I had such a bad experience trying OCM for a while that I don't know if I'd want to try oils again. I will have a look at the NCN website though. What about squalane?

Sorry Foxe I meant Retin A micro, I got lazy and forgot to type the micro. Didn't you say before that with Retin A micro you can apply the CPs then just wait 10 mins then apply the RA micro?

I've just had a look in my cupboard and found a bottle of virtually unused 2% bha liquid. Can I use this in the place of LacSal? After reading about it a bit more on the SB website I think it's probably way to strong for my accutane skin at the moment. And the next level down appears to be the Exfol serum, which looks like it's just a 2% bha serum with very similar ingredients to the one I already have.

You can definitely use squalane oil - Skin Bio even sells some. I found it to be a lighter oil than the emu.

That 2% BHA will work in place of the LacSal (which is BHA and AHA combined). I have used other makes of BHAs myself (with lower pHs) and just recently got a sample of the SB Exfol lotion. When my stash of those is gone, I'm ordering the Exfol. (It's a really nice one)

BTW - a 2% BHA is just as strong if not stronger than a higher percent of an AHA. It would be equivalent to about an 8% AHA. It doesn't take as high of a % of a BHA to work deep since it is lipid (oil) soluble. AHAs are water soluble. Because of the fact that BHAs are lipophilic, this allows it to penetrate the oil in the pores and exfoliate inside the pore better. BHAs are best used where blackheads and blemishes are the issue, and AHAs are best for sun-damaged, thickened, dry skin where breakouts are not a problem.

If you are on Accutane right now, I would not use an exfoliant. Just use the CPs and oil until you're done w/ the accutane course.

And, I did say you could use the Micro soon after the CP since it is pH neutral. A good wait until the CP is absorbed (15 mins or so) is best. (This applies to a serum CP - serums before creams before oils). If you are using a cream CP, that can go on top of Retin A Micro.

Are you using a retinoid AND accutane at the same time?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:40 pm

foxe wrote:

You can definitely use squalane oil - Skin Bio even sells some. I found it to be a lighter oil than the emu.

That 2% BHA will work in place of the LacSal (which is BHA and AHA combined). I have used other makes of BHAs myself (with lower pHs) and just recently got a sample of the SB Exfol lotion. When my stash of those is gone, I'm ordering the Exfol. (It's a really nice one)

BTW - a 2% BHA is just as strong if not stronger than a higher percent of an AHA. It would be equivalent to about an 8% AHA. It doesn't take as high of a % of a BHA to work deep since it is lipid (oil) soluble. AHAs are water soluble. Because of the fact that BHAs are lipophilic, this allows it to penetrate the oil in the pores and exfoliate inside the pore better. BHAs are best used where blackheads and blemishes are the issue, and AHAs are best for sun-damaged, thickened, dry skin where breakouts are not a problem.

If you are on Accutane right now, I would not use an exfoliant. Just use the CPs and oil until you're done w/ the accutane course.

And, I did say you could use the Micro soon after the CP since it is pH neutral. A good wait until the CP is absorbed (15 mins or so) is best. (This applies to a serum CP - serums before creams before oils). If you are using a cream CP, that can go on top of Retin A Micro.

Are you using a retinoid AND accutane at the same time?

Thanks. The 2% BHA liquid I have is from Paula's choice it's a pretty good one, I just feel it will be better than the LacSal at the moment as that appears to be quite strong by containing 1.5% BHA plus 8.5% AHA, SB also ordered it as the strongest of the exfoliants they do. I was wondering though, if maybe AHA would be better for my condition as pigmentation is similar to sun damage and SB does Lactic Power 10. It's confusing because I don't have acne any more due to the accutane but I don't know if that means I won't have acne prone skin anymore, I think I will always be acne prone and maybe BHA is the best option for me. I guess I can do a three day rotation, one night RA Micro, one night BHA, one night AHA! Seems like a lot Shock

Lol

Also I was wondering why, on the directions of the CPs on SB, it says to use the CPs in the morning and the exfoliator at night? Does Dr. Pickart think they should not be applied at the same time of day as each other?

I haven't been using the RA micro with the accutane, I finish it in 3 days so that's when I'll start exfoliating and using the retin a micro. The only thing I have been doing now though with the CPs is a 12% AHA rinse off cleanser. I know it's an exfoliator but it's on my skin for such a short time I feel like it can't be doing any damage, it doesn't dry me out at all so I figured it must be ok. I just want to help the CPs a little bit at least by taking away a few dead skin cells. Did you find squalane to be at all comedogenic, it has a rating of 1 out of 5 on acne detective, did you ever find it broke you out?

Thanks.

free skin care · Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:10 am

Hey Twinkle66

Im also using CP with retin a to remove my acne scars. I would be interested in your results too.

Does anyone know how long it'll take for the scars to be gone? My skin is looking really awful now. The pores/holes are looking bigger. Sad

free skin care · Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:40 am

faeriedust:

Did you start both products at the same time? Tretinoin (retin A) can also make the pores look big and ugly in the initial period (my personal experience).

Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:04 pm

faeriedust wrote:

Hey Twinkle66

Im also using CP with retin a to remove my acne scars. I would be interested in your results too.

Does anyone know how long it'll take for the scars to be gone? My skin is looking really awful now. The pores/holes are looking bigger. Sad

Cool, yeah I'm a bit less than a month in with the CPs, haven't seen any noticeable results just yet. My skin always looks better first thing in the morning then starts to deteriorate as the day goes on. I'm about to start retin a now so hopefully that will speed things along.

How long have you been doing it for?

free skin care · Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:42 pm

I think results take a little while with CP's - a few months will bring results and longer term you will continue to show improvement.

free skin care · Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:27 pm

m1rox wrote:

faeriedust:

Did you start both products at the same time? Tretinoin (retin A) can also make the pores look big and ugly in the initial period (my personal experience).

Hey
yup approximately the same time. I use retin a first, wait for about half an hour and then CP on my scars. I dont know if the retin a is the cause of the huge holes because I've used retin a in the past without this problem. I actually find the immediate application of retin a makes my skin look better.

free skin care · Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Twinkle66 wrote:

faeriedust wrote:

Hey Twinkle66

Im also using CP with retin a to remove my acne scars. I would be interested in your results too.

Does anyone know how long it'll take for the scars to be gone? My skin is looking really awful now. The pores/holes are looking bigger. Sad

Cool, yeah I'm a bit less than a month in with the CPs, haven't seen any noticeable results just yet. My skin always looks better first thing in the morning then starts to deteriorate as the day goes on. I'm about to start retin a now so hopefully that will speed things along.

How long have you been doing it for?

I think I've been using CP for about 3 weeks now? But I use them every alternative day. I only added retin a in the second week.
I actually thought my scars looked smaller one day but I dont why after that, it went back to its original condition.
Have you thought of trying dermarolling or dermastamp?

Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:23 pm

faeriedust wrote:

I think I've been using CP for about 3 weeks now? But I use them every alternative day. I only added retin a in the second week.
I actually thought my scars looked smaller one day but I dont why after that, it went back to its original condition.
Have you thought of trying dermarolling or dermastamp?

Yeah I really want to try dermarolling, both the home roller and also getting an actual treatment by this really good derm Dr. Philippa McCaffery. I have to wait 6 months though Sad

as I've been on accutane.

free skin care · Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:55 pm

I emailed Cassia at the SB website for a skin consultation for my oily skin, large pores and acne scars (not too deep). Her recommendation was to use Super CP serum and Sebum Be Gone. I was surprised that they can recommend starting off with the Super CP right away! I've emailed her back about this and awaiting for a reply. I know you girls recommend starting off with a weaker CP, what do you all think of this? TIA!

free skin care · Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:08 am

faeriedust wrote:

m1rox wrote:

faeriedust:

Did you start both products at the same time? Tretinoin (retin A) can also make the pores look big and ugly in the initial period (my personal experience).

Hey
yup approximately the same time. I use retin a first, wait for about half an hour and then CP on my scars. I dont know if the retin a is the cause of the huge holes because I've used retin a in the past without this problem. I actually find the immediate application of retin a makes my skin look better.

You started two strong actives around the same time. Maybe your skin cannot take this. You may have to use one of them consistently for a longer period of time (one to two months) and then gradually work the other one into your routine. Not everybody can jump straight into that kind of routine without their skin "freaking out". You have to take it easy with CPs as the results come slowly and gradually. They are not a quick fix.

free skin care · Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:58 am

moosejavian wrote:

I emailed Cassia at the SB website for a skin consultation for my oily skin, large pores and acne scars (not too deep). Her recommendation was to use Super CP serum and Sebum Be Gone. I was surprised that they can recommend starting off with the Super CP right away! I've emailed her back about this and awaiting for a reply. I know you girls recommend starting off with a weaker CP, what do you all think of this? TIA!

I am not surprised, I was recommended the Skin Signals to start with!

free skin care · Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:12 am

moosejavian wrote:

I emailed Cassia at the SB website for a skin consultation for my oily skin, large pores and acne scars (not too deep). Her recommendation was to use Super CP serum and Sebum Be Gone. I was surprised that they can recommend starting off with the Super CP right away! I've emailed her back about this and awaiting for a reply. I know you girls recommend starting off with a weaker CP, what do you all think of this? TIA!

I would recommend starting out with the regular CP serum and even with this use every other day diluted for the first while.
Less chance of dealing with the 'uglies' this way and getting discouraged.
Even the regular CP serum is quite strong.

free skin care · Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:18 pm

moosejavian wrote:

I emailed Cassia at the SB website for a skin consultation for my oily skin, large pores and acne scars (not too deep). Her recommendation was to use Super CP serum and Sebum Be Gone. I was surprised that they can recommend starting off with the Super CP right away! I've emailed her back about this and awaiting for a reply. I know you girls recommend starting off with a weaker CP, what do you all think of this? TIA!

I'm a bit more conservative than that, I guess, and that's why I always recommend the slower approach. They might be considering the stronger CP since you're dealing with scars. And a stronger one for yor Riley since you mentioned the upper lip lines (deep wrinkles). That's the only thing I can think of.

I would still think you'd see some uglies jumping right in to the stronger CPs, BUT - you'd also have faster results. And scars and wrinkles can take a lot longer to see results - even with the strong stuff. More agressive treatments are also usually required for those stubborn things- like using strong acids or needling.

free skin care · Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:24 pm

fairiedust - what do your acne scars look like? box car, ice pick, hyperpigmented?

for the deep ones, single needles and the CPs work really well. A strong acid works good too. Spot treat those areas and use the strongest CPs on them too and you'll see some changes. I've seen some bad scars fill in that I got last year (stopped using CPs while trying a diff skin care line that broke me out bad). It was taking months and months to do it the slow way. When I get my act together and do a needle/CP Tx on them I really see them fill in. I also spot treat w/ a 5% BHA (w/ a low pH - so strong!) and the SC2X and that also gives me really good results.

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