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moosejavian
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:19 pm      Reply with quote
I got this reply from Cassia,
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Those with active acne, oily skin, and/or tougher scars can many times start off with a stronger copper-peptide. That is why we have the Scar Reduction Kit which is a starter kit (or for those new to using our products) but it contains very strong products. When used properly it works quite effectively.

The benefit of Super CP Serum is that it can easily be diluted with water if it is too strong. If you really don't have sensitive skin, you may find it much more advantageous to use Super CP Serum.


My question now is because I am on the 13th week of the Obagi Nuderm and still peeling from the tretinoin, and haven't been oily, am I considered sensitive?
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:22 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for posting that moosejavin. I did not know that.

Personally - if you are on Obagi - I think I'd finish that system before venturing onto something else. You might mess up the results of Obagi somehow (never used it, so not sure)

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm      Reply with quote
foxe wrote:
fairiedust - what do your acne scars look like? box car, ice pick, hyperpigmented?

for the deep ones, single needles and the CPs work really well. A strong acid works good too. Spot treat those areas and use the strongest CPs on them too and you'll see some changes. I've seen some bad scars fill in that I got last year (stopped using CPs while trying a diff skin care line that broke me out bad). It was taking months and months to do it the slow way. When I get my act together and do a needle/CP Tx on them I really see them fill in. I also spot treat w/ a 5% BHA (w/ a low pH - so strong!) and the SC2X and that also gives me really good results.


Hi!
Im not sure what type of scars I have. Im guessing icepicks? They just look like holes/enlarged pores on my skin. I have hyperpigmentation too but I dont use CPs on them because the surface is flat.
I woke up this morning and noticed the holes are closing. But Im not hopeful because the previous time it closed, it subsequently opened again! argh! I hope they will close permanently because right now it's closing and somehow it can open anytime.
Im using mandelic acid before retin a and spot treating CPs thereafter. The mandelic acid and retin a have made my skin look so much better.

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23yr old Asian with combination skin prone to clogged pores. hyperpigmentation from pimples. uneven skintone, scars
foxe
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:31 pm      Reply with quote
fairiedust - it might be that what you are seeing is the scar is filling in, then peeling/filling in, peeling - kinda working it's way from the bottom up. It would be the damaged stuff on the top getting pushed out with the new skin filling in under.

At least - that's how I look at it from how my acne scars have filled in.

And the red marks do that too. They will peel and get smaller and smaller.

It's the combo of the exfoliation and CPs that do this.

I had some bad blemishes last year from using 302. I had stopped using CPs and acids during that time (6 mos). A few of those blemishes left some depressed scars - boxcar like. When I started using CPs and acids again, they started to do the peeling and healing. The older one is taking longer than the newer one to fill in. The newer one is completely eradicated. I did not experience this(peeling/filling in) until after using 302 - I had not really had bad , deep breakouts before 302. I had been using CPs for about 9 months before trying 302.

I was amazed at the peeling effect. I didn't really expect to see that happen. The layers came off in such thin amounts and it was a very slow process because of that.

With ice pick type scars - it's harder to get that exfoliation going. That's why I tried the single needle. I've seen 2 ice pick scars fill in 50% since using a needle and CPs. It will take a couple more treatments to get those to be smooth.

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foxe
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:38 pm      Reply with quote
I know there's a lot of talk here for scar treatment. Before I had to use CPs for acne scars (thanks to 302), I had been using them for anti-aging and they worked beautifully for that too. They firmed up my skin and smoothed out crepy texture. Just thought I'd throw that out there for others interested in CPs for something besides scarring.

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
Leggy 61
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:22 pm      Reply with quote
foxe,how long did you use the CP before you noticed the texture and firming show up?
foxe
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:30 pm      Reply with quote
I think it was around a month for my upper eye lids. They had damage from using eyeshadows daily - very loose and crepy.

The other improvements took longer to see - around 8-12 wks? I noticed some firmness on my N/L area. That area had some acid (or aging) damage and appeared rather loose. I also saw my pores appear smaller in that timeframe.

I still have room for more improvements and continue to work on it.

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late 50's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic
Leggy 61
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Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:58 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks,I'm hanging in there with the CP and going slow,am seeing some improvement.I want to use it on my hands,don't have wrinkles,but I have those veins and would like to add some volume.Is this something the CP can do?If so which one would you recommend?
foxe
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Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:20 am      Reply with quote
I don't think it matters which you use - just a personal preference. I think the creams spread easier, myself. And I think I'd go for a stronger CP since the hands tend to have a lot of sun exposure (CPs act as an anti-oxidant and can help negate too much sun exposure).

One of the stronger creams is the Tri Reduction. Below that (and still nice) is the P&R line up (Protect and Restore). For drier skin - the P&R w/ Retinol is a good choice. There is also a Body Lotion which is milder than the P&R line. (phew! Too many choices)

OR - just go w/ a serum and top it w/ an oil.

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rileygirl
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Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:55 am      Reply with quote
Can anyone tell me the pH of the Lactic Power 10? And also is it more of a cream or serum?

Oops, I just found on the skinbiology forum it has a pH of 3.4. So could someone confirm that is the correct pH? TIA!
summer2004
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Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:09 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Can anyone tell me the pH of the Lactic Power 10? And also is it more of a cream or serum?

Hi RileyGirl,

The info provided by mangosteen may help you.

mangosteen wrote:
I have been using the Lactic Power 10 for a bit over a week. It is a cream base, not a liquid or serum, so a little difficult to make the comparison to vitamin c. I do love it. It is very emollient, so a tiny bit spreads nicely to cover the face and neck. The sample that came from SkinBio was quite generous. I am using the LP10 two nights, and Retin A the third. I will definitely be ordering the LP10 when I've finished the sample. Two thumbs up on this one!


http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=531922&highlight=lactic+power+10#531910
Star Model
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Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:52 am      Reply with quote
Regarding buried damage & CP usage:

CPs are remodeling agents that repair skin damage by restoring the skin barrier & strengthening the collagen & elastins in the skin. They do not cause NEW damage to skin, but will trigger the remodeling process by slowly bringing up layers of "buried damage". Even young skin can have buried damage, but is not noticeable on the outside because young skin is thicker skin. Damage of "all sorts" is covered over by an outer layer of relatively good looking skin.

As we age & the skin naturally thins - buried damage becomes more noticeable. The damage (as with acne scars) actually looks worse when you get older, since it was covered over & disguised by "plumper more youthful skin".

So, while some freak out (and understandably so) when their skin begins to change when 1st starting CPs, it is all about what kind & how much damage has actually accumulated under the skin over the decades. Also damage does not necessarily mean acne scars. Use of moisturizers, makeup, sunscreens, etc. over time slowly damage the elastins in the skin & some will have more looseness than others when starting CPs. Those who experience looseness right away would do best by backing off using the mildest P&R products. Then slowly add CP Serum if needed. Many can get superior results by using only P&R not ever needing to push beyond.

Those who will have the hardest time of all are the *past acne suffers* because they have the most buried damage which is in the form of buried scar tissue. This takes a contentious effort to slowly break down the damage so CPs can rebuild. They will need (if they choose to eradicate the scars) stronger Hydroxys & CPs to attack scar tissue along with demarolling and/or needling techniques to help break up & loosen the scar tissue.

So all in all, CPs are safe, anti-inflammatory, non-irritating skin remodelers and you can safely use the products without necessarily going through all of the remodeling phases by keeping it MILD. This will give you all the benefits of CPs without bringing up too much of the hidden damage. Many people are not willing to go through the change, so MILD is the way to go for them.

It is difficult for people to comprehend *buried damage* in the skin because we can't see it. Many derms can't even understand it. They misdiagnose buried acne scars (which become more noticeable as we age) as certain disorders of the skin. The only way to have truly unblemished, bump-free beautiful skin is to slowly bring the existing damage up so that it can be degraded using various exfoliating methods. By doing this & going through the various stages, you can renew & remodel your skin to a youthful state using CPs.

Understanding the process is KEY.
rileygirl
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Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:33 am      Reply with quote
summer2004 wrote:

Hi RileyGirl,

The info provided by mangosteen may help you.

mangosteen wrote:
I have been using the Lactic Power 10 for a bit over a week. It is a cream base, not a liquid or serum, so a little difficult to make the comparison to vitamin c. I do love it. It is very emollient, so a tiny bit spreads nicely to cover the face and neck. The sample that came from SkinBio was quite generous. I am using the LP10 two nights, and Retin A the third. I will definitely be ordering the LP10 when I've finished the sample. Two thumbs up on this one!


http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=531922&highlight=lactic+power+10#531910


Summer2004 - Thank you so much! It helps a ton!!
moosejavian
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Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:09 pm      Reply with quote
Another question, how do I know if the CP I'm using is too strong for me? Do I wait for the uglies to appear or do I feel it immediately, like stinging or burning? And if you do feel something immediately, can you just wash it off with water to stop it? TIA!
sister sweets
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Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:23 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks Star for a helpful explanation. There are many key points here for CP users. It certainly is beyond the typical skin care product philosophy. I've just starting to work on a few very faint scars I have. I am using skin signals all over and started applying Super CP over SS to these only. We'll see what happens. I've had them forever and they seem to appear like small fine wrinkles when I smile so they would be nice to work with and eventually exfoliate out.

Star Model wrote:
Regarding buried damage & CP usage:

CPs are remodeling agents that repair skin damage by restoring the skin barrier & strengthening the collagen & elastins in the skin. They do not cause NEW damage to skin, but will trigger the remodeling process by slowly bringing up layers of "buried damage". Even young skin can have buried damage, but is not noticeable on the outside because young skin is thicker skin. Damage of "all sorts" is covered over by an outer layer of relatively good looking skin.

As we age & the skin naturally thins - buried damage becomes more noticeable. The damage (as with acne scars) actually looks worse when you get older, since it was covered over & disguised by "plumper more youthful skin".

So, while some freak out (and understandably so) when their skin begins to change when 1st starting CPs, it is all about what kind & how much damage has actually accumulated under the skin over the decades. Also damage does not necessarily mean acne scars. Use of moisturizers, makeup, sunscreens, etc. over time slowly damage the elastins in the skin & some will have more looseness than others when starting CPs. Those who experience looseness right away would do best by backing off using the mildest P&R products. Then slowly add CP Serum if needed. Many can get superior results by using only P&R not ever needing to push beyond.

Those who will have the hardest time of all are the *past acne suffers* because they have the most buried damage which is in the form of buried scar tissue. This takes a contentious effort to slowly break down the damage so CPs can rebuild. They will need (if they choose to eradicate the scars) stronger Hydroxys & CPs to attack scar tissue along with demarolling and/or needling techniques to help break up & loosen the scar tissue.

So all in all, CPs are safe, anti-inflammatory, non-irritating skin remodelers and you can safely use the products without necessarily going through all of the remodeling phases by keeping it MILD. This will give you all the benefits of CPs without bringing up too much of the hidden damage. Many people are not willing to go through the change, so MILD is the way to go for them.

It is difficult for people to comprehend *buried damage* in the skin because we can't see it. Many derms can't even understand it. They misdiagnose buried acne scars (which become more noticeable as we age) as certain disorders of the skin. The only way to have truly unblemished, bump-free beautiful skin is to slowly bring the existing damage up so that it can be degraded using various exfoliating methods. By doing this & going through the various stages, you can renew & remodel your skin to a youthful state using CPs.

Understanding the process is KEY.

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Star Model
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Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:25 pm      Reply with quote
Yes, Buried damage is real. We just can't see it unless using a UV Imaging Device.

It can be in the form of sun damage, hardened skin, scarred pores, burn scars, old injuries, etc. It quickly gets covered over by good skin, but becomes more apparent as we age. Damage is often in layers.

http://reverseskinaging.com/buried-skin-damage.html
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Mon May 03, 2010 7:46 pm      Reply with quote
Skippie wrote:
In another thread, we've been talking about how to restore color to gray hair and the possibility that copper will help. Does anyone know if using the CP hair products will help in that area?


Hi skippie jumping on late to this thread> I used folligen for blonds and had new hair introduced, but it was all grey hair> not sure if that helps you or not. I do not have much grey hair at all as a rule>
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Mon May 03, 2010 7:48 pm      Reply with quote
Skippie - Bethany uses folligen for blondes and may be able to help if you pm her.

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Mon May 03, 2010 7:54 pm      Reply with quote
I just started using premier eyes. The BF took pictures yesterday to monitor progress. He's a big skeptic also so I know he'll tell me the truth. I don't have heavy wrinkling but I wouldn't mind a bit of firming/tightening. The Skin signals has been doing a great job on my skin - pore reduction and most notably firming.

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Tue May 04, 2010 10:25 am      Reply with quote
I just ordered the Scar kit(Super CP and super cop2x with lacsal and exfol), the CP night eyes and Tri Red/LacSal combo and Emu Oil as suggested by Cassia of SB. Trying to target oily skin, large pores, acne scars, stretch marks and one hooded eyelid. She said I can use the super CP for general face use. A bit nervous but excited! Wish me luck!
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Tue May 04, 2010 11:12 am      Reply with quote
For starters: I'd dilute down a little on the Super CP for the first weeks if I were you and then slowly take away the water. Or you can put emu on first and then apply the Super.

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Wed May 05, 2010 11:36 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Sis!

Got my orders today, tried the Night Eyes over Emu, there's a very, very mild sensation on the brow bone. Used the Tri Red on the abs, no irritation at all. LacSal cream on the face and it feels very mild as compared to my Obagi Exfoderm. Will try the Super CP on the whole face tonight.
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Wed May 05, 2010 4:27 pm      Reply with quote
Has anyone used Two Time Tightener? I want to use it but I read somewhere that it works for some and others not so much.Is it temporary or with continuances does the skin get a bit tighter?
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Wed May 05, 2010 5:12 pm      Reply with quote
LuvToSmile wrote:
Skippie wrote:
In another thread, we've been talking about how to restore color to gray hair and the possibility that copper will help. Does anyone know if using the CP hair products will help in that area?


Hi skippie jumping on late to this thread> I used folligen for blonds and had new hair introduced, but it was all grey hair> not sure if that helps you or not. I do not have much grey hair at all as a rule>


Folligen for Blondes definitely does work from a growth standpoint, but it is a tin peptide (not copper).

CP based Folligen will certainly help with hair growth too...I think it is Procyte that makes a CP fluid that is used after hair implants to ensure that they actually begin to grow. However, I have never read anything that says CPs will return your hair color to the previous color.

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Wed May 05, 2010 5:26 pm      Reply with quote
Leggy 61 wrote:
Has anyone used Two Time Tightener? I want to use it but I read somewhere that it works for some and others not so much.Is it temporary or with continuances does the skin get a bit tighter?


I'm using it. Sagging is my main issue and I've never really found any topical or gadget that makes a visible difference. (But then I never see any real results from anything).

However, I do measure my appearance in terms of "haggard" or "more haggard". I feel that since I've started back on CPs, Exfol, TTT, and the high frequency device I'm looking "less haggard"!

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