Have you heard of the Wonderbar? Supposedly helps melasma
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free skin care · Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:48 pm

Sorry Josee I was adressing surficants! Smile

Sunday, February 24, 2008
Soap vs. Detergent
There's a lot of confusion out there about detergents and soaps. Some companies say that their detergents "don't dry your skin out like soap" and some soap companies say their products "don't irritate skin like detergents." So who's right? What's better--a soap or a detergent? Let's start out with the basics by looking at how each is made.

Detergents (or surfactants) are synthetic compounds that have been created through a chemical process. The most widely-used detergent, sodium lauryl sulfate, is created by reacting sulfuric acid with dodecanol (a fatty alcohol) adding a few other chemicals, heating it up, adding more chemicals, and so forth. On average, there are about ten steps between the original raw materials and the final detergent. Soaps on the other hand, are created by mixing a fat (usually a vegetable oil) with caustic soda (like lye or potassium hydroxide). Soaps have been created like this for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years. Detergents, on the other hand, have only been around for a few decades.

It can be confusing because often detergents are packaged like soaps. Most of the commerically produced "soap" bars out there aren't really soaps at all. Look carefully at their packaging. Do they list a bunch of chemicals? Some common ones would be cocomidopropyl betaine and sodium laureth sulfate. If there are a lot of confusing chemicals listed, you've got a synthetic detergent. Legally, detergents cannot label themselves as soaps. You'll notice their packaging will say "facial bar" or "body cleansing bar." On the other hand, if the package lists oils and "saponified" oils, you're using a true soap, not a detergent. Detergents and true soaps can be both liquid and solid.

http://bubbleandbee.blogspot.com/2008/02/soap-vs-detergent.html

HTH Smile

free skin care · Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:04 pm

It helped a lot!

So I guess it's a detergent since the coconut thing is produced from coconut alcohol and the other surfactant from something else... thanks!

free skin care · Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:13 pm

Josee wrote:

It helped a lot!

So I guess it's a detergent since the coconut thing is produced from coconut alcohol and the other surfactant from something else... thanks!

Josee, do you have any thoughts on the ability of the alage to "heal" the skin?

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:46 am

WhiteWolf wrote:

Sorry everyone else does not like the WB, I'm continuing to use it and pleased with things so far. My skin hasn't looked this clear in ages. Prior I was using 6 different cleansers, cabinet full, and this at least gets rid of my blackheads.

WhiteWolf,

I've been meaning to ask you - are you only using the WB for cleansing now? I'm using it by itself only in the mornings. In the evenings, I use one of my other cleansers first to remove makeup, etc., and then use the WB. But I'm doing that mainly because I have at least 5 cleansers I need to use up.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:48 am

Just a quick little update. My skin has definitely turned a corner. I am not dry any longer, no sandpaper feel (finally my skin feels smooth) and all the tiny pimples are gone. The weird thing that happened this morning was the skin in the crease of both eyes peeled off and it feels very smooth there.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:03 am

bethany wrote:

Josee wrote:

It helped a lot!

So I guess it's a detergent since the coconut thing is produced from coconut alcohol and the other surfactant from something else... thanks!

Josee, do you have any thoughts on the ability of the alage to "heal" the skin?

Mmm... I think it will depend on what condition, etc. we are talking about when we say "heal".

I have not found any patent for this algae either in the US or in Europe (not even in Franca). That does not mean that it doesn't exist, maybe it's under a non-intuitive name.

But from other patents on algae extract, it seems these extracts are made of oils with certain fatty acids, and trace elements.

So.. for example if an algae extract had lots of linoleic acid then it can have some anti-inflammatory,anti-acne property. Or if it had traces of sulphur, etc, etc. I don't think it would do anything "miraculous" but it could help.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:05 am

DarkMoon wrote:

I can't help but wonder if you can reap whatever benefits of algae by purchasing one of the many algae powders and a nice powdered clay from any health food store and mixing your own mask? That way you can also use as needed for your skin type, more often on oily less often on dry skin, and it would be a fraction of the cost. Question

Ok so I've been looking into this a little bit. It seems (based on wonderbar related websites) that the Chlorey’nahre is an extract of Chlorella Sorokiniana.

So I looked to see what is so special about it.

The special things are:

a. It has PPAR agonists. A manufacturer of Chlorella extracts says that it has PPARs alfa, beta and gamma. The only published study of PPAR and Chlorella I could find studied only alfa and gamma.

PPAR alfa and beta agonists seem to have an antiproliferating efect in the epidermis. In one study though (in patients with psoriasis) PPAR beta seemed to increase proliferation.

The skin has mostly PPAR beta.

PPARs also interat with Retinod X receptors (RXR) though I haven't looked at what they do yet.

b.Phycocyanin: may have antioxidant properties (have not researched this claim)

Now... what amount of these things the bar has, whether they penetrate the stratum corneum or not... is something we don't know.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:12 am

The top layer of the epidermis, the stratum corneum, is made of dead, flat skin cells that shed about every 2 weeks.

Even if the bar penetrates it what its going to actually do for us? that layer is going to shed soon...right?

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:28 am

simpleMD wrote:

The top layer of the epidermis, the stratum corneum, is made of dead, flat skin cells that shed about every 2 weeks.

Even if the bar penetrates it what its going to actually do for us? that layer is going to shed soon...right?

If it can penetrate the stratum corneum, it can get down into the deeper layers.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:29 am

Josee wrote:

PPARs also interat with Retinod X receptors (RXR) though I haven't looked at what they do yet.

b.Phycocyanin: may have antioxidant properties (have not researched this claim)

Now... what amount of these things the bar has, whether they penetrate the stratum corneum or not... is something we don't know.

Josee, great information. If you find out anything else, please share!

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:35 am

No...S.Corneum sheds off anyway but its replaced ...I do not think a bar of soap penetrates the deeper layers of skin which is protected by complex layers of lipids...Riley...maybe am wrong ... Neutral

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:05 pm

Josee,

I totally understand your motivation on the best case scenario. I also agree the WB people have not provided consistent information and that just adds to the confusion about the product! Very Happy

ETA It seems we were posting at the same time. LOL

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:16 pm

Skippie, if I am wearing makeup I will use a gentle cleanser first to remove all my makeup, like NCN's Rhassoul Clay bar. Then use WB after. I never have a set time when I leave it on. Mornings normally 5 minutes, at night depends on what's going on (ie. taking care of toddlers, getting them to bed).

Totally TMI but at this "time of the month" I normally break out bad but nothing at all. Smile

So far, so good!

As for the talk about clay, I spent big $ on stuff from Garden of Wisdom. Some of the clays I purchased, actually killed my skin, over-drying and such. So all that stuff went in the trash.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:59 pm

BTW, while I am not using my WB at the moment, I do plan on using it each time I take a "skincare break" from my actives like they recommend with the 302 line.

It definitely did a great job at cleaning out some blackheads, so I will still use it periodically in order to get that benefit.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:08 pm

Josee wrote:

I haven't found much to be honest...

because they reduce fibroblast proliferation and collagen secretion.
So this would also not be good for anti-aging.

Thanks, Josee. And, no that definitely would not be good for anti-aging.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:14 pm

WhiteWolf wrote:

Skippie, if I am wearing makeup I will use a gentle cleanser first to remove all my makeup, like NCN's Rhassoul Clay bar. Then use WB after. I never have a set time when I leave it on. Mornings normally 5 minutes, at night depends on what's going on (ie. taking care of toddlers, getting them to bed).

Totally TMI but at this "time of the month" I normally break out bad but nothing at all. Smile

So far, so good!

As for the talk about clay, I spent big $ on stuff from Garden of Wisdom. Some of the clays I purchased, actually killed my skin, over-drying and such. So all that stuff went in the trash.

Thanks, WhiteWolf. We seem to have similar likes and dislikes.

I'm the beneficiary of Frodo's generosity. She gave me a greatly reduced rate on two of the bars. If you'd like to share in her kindness, let me know. I'd be happy to send you a bar.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:52 pm

Skippie wrote:

It looks like it's doing something for the tough, leather-like skin on the back of my neck and nothing, I repeat NOTHING, has ever helped with that.

Skippie,

What reaction are you seeing on your neck right now?

And can you please remind me of how long you've been using it?

Thanks!

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:24 pm

bethany wrote:

Skippie wrote:

It looks like it's doing something for the tough, leather-like skin on the back of my neck and nothing, I repeat NOTHING, has ever helped with that.

Skippie,

What reaction are you seeing on your neck right now?

And can you please remind me of how long you've been using it?

Thanks!

Bethany,

I've been using it since 4/8 - two weeks and three days. The back of my neck has definitely gotten the worst of the healing crisis. It has pimples - although they're almost gone - and is red and sore and like sandpaper. But I can tell it's close to peeling, just by the feel of it. Here are some pictures I've taken of my neck along the way (I wish I had your flawless neck):

4-17

4-22

4/25

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:35 pm

Skippie wrote:

Bethany,

I've been using it since 4/8 - two weeks and three days. The back of my neck has definitely gotten the worst of the healing crisis. It has pimples - although they're almost gone - and is red and sore and like sandpaper. But I can tell it's close to peeling, just by the feel of it. Here are some pictures I've taken of my neck along the way (I wish I had your flawless neck):

WOW....your neck does look rather irritated. That was exactly what mine started to do and I stopped using it since there really wasn't anything wrong with my neck other than my 2 neck rings.

At the bare minimum, you'll get the benefit of peel!

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:44 pm

bethany wrote:

WOW....your neck does look rather irritated. That was exactly what mine started to do and I stopped using it since there really wasn't anything wrong with my neck other than my 2 neck rings.

At the bare minimum, you'll get the benefit of peel!

I recall your pic's Bethany and the only thing that made your neck look "bad" in anyway was the red you had from using the bar! Smile

You are right about the peel though, that seems to follow all the other effects mentioned. Smile

Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:36 pm

arghh. 5 day posts. Wanted to respond last night, but couldn't

riley- so far so good. but I'm curious as well. I have to preface this by saying my skin takes to tret. gel almost like a moisturizer. In fact to get any peeling anymore, I have to layer with taz gel. Crazy.

bethany - I'm never known for following directions Laughing

Actually, all of the "rules" turned me off.

Love what it's done for my pores. I'm surprised they don't market this more as a mask. To me this is a pore cleanser sort of product. I love it for that. I'm also keeping close eye on brown spot on upper lip. Looks tons better, but I did also do a deep roll.

Also wondering if there is menthol in it. A small area near my mouth is a bit red and that's normally where menthol bothers me...mouth area.

free skin care · Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:45 pm

I remember I used to use a Moore mub bath made by Golden Moor (had to look that up).
It was made in Quebec or Canada and smelled like pine.

I bought it at a health food store a long tome ago.

To me the name "Chlorey'nare" sounds like another spelling of Chlorophyl?

I could be wrong though.
Anyway this is my first post and hope to learn a lot from the forum!

free skin care · Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:35 pm

simpleMD wrote:

where are people why no one is talking about this wonderbar any more? Darn it ! I really pissed that wonderbar lady off!!! Hey but I was telling the truth I didnt say anything bad about her Bar Smile

LOL! I don't think you made anyone angry, simpleMD! I actually have been talking about it on the "uglies" thread!

I am ending my 3rd week tonight. I still get dry, and I still get these little things that I don't know if they are pimples or a reaction to one of the ingredients in the product. No great miracle is happening. I actually am thinking about stopping this now instead of going on for 1 more week. I normally have no reaction to any product (meaning no breakouts, dryness, etc) but this WB is causing my skin to behave weird and I don't really know if it is a good thing or not.

free skin care · Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:15 pm

I'm still faithfully using it but been sick with a bad cold, so haven't been posting. I have some dry patches that look like they'll flake off and under my left eye the wrinkle looks crusted over. Not pretty but I'm chalking it up to more healing. I think some of my age spots look lighter. Only going on week 3 here.

free skin care · Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:53 pm

I looked tremendous well at my college reunion. My face was not as dry but very smooth. I had light makeup on and I was really happy how I looked. It might be the humidity though.

Like White Wolf, I’m still faithfully using the bar morning and night about 10 – 20 min. My face is a little bit red and “dark” compared to last week. Only Jason Natural Beauty Oil and sunscreen are used, nothing else. I started on 04/08 and so far I don’t see any improvement on any of my flaws. Rolling Eyes

I bought the large bar and shared with my sis-in-law. If after I finished the bar but still don’t see anything improvement then I’ll start my search again.......... Rolling Eyes

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