Author |
Message |
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:09 am |
Hi, I have been reading several posts for quiet awhile and have heard mention of the"uglies" that one goes through when starting a few different new programs, but mostly in regards to facial exercises and the use of CP's. I had started Ageless and gave up because I was not able to stomach the "uglies", mainly because I had no idea how long they would last.
I am about to start CP's. I just ordered Skin Biology's CP Serum. Would any of the members who have gone through the "uglies" and come out on the other side looking better, share your experience? I would mainly like to know what you were using/doing and how long the uglies lasted. I really have no idea what is normal. A few days? Weeks? Months?
I know everyone is different, but if enough people shared, maybe we could get at least a rough average of what to expect.
I would greatly appreciate it! |
|
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:36 pm |
Hi and welcome gumdropday ....You might want to read the new Skin Biology Copper Peptide thread as this is one of the issues that has been talked about. You can throw your questions out there.
Uglies usually happen when you go too fast and/or use a solution that is too strong for your skin at the time.
CP's are better begun slow and diluted at first (water works) and used a few times a week vs everyday and work up from there. |
_________________ Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:48 pm |
Great idea for a thread, gumdropday. I would also like to hear peoples experience with regarding the "uglies". Hope everyone will share what they have experienced. |
|
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:00 pm |
sister sweets wrote: |
Uglies usually happen when you go too fast and/or use a solution that is too strong for your skin at the time.
CP's are better begun slow and diluted at first (water works) and used a few times a week vs everyday and work up from there. |
Uglies can also happen if you have a lot of damage, or if a stronger version of CPs on another part of your face migrate up to more delicate areas. I only used the weakest option (Super GHK) under my eyes, but ending up having some major crosshatching and quit using the products because it looked so bad. It took 6-9 months for all it to go away.
And I agree with Sis...If I had to do it again and wanted to avoid the uglies, I would personally go with only using them 2-3x a week as opposed to daily as was originally recommended. It's WAY easier and less traumatic to go slow, then to try and reverse the uglies!
And for the record, I will probably try CPs again since I like the science behind them. But I would not go daily until I had done a minimum of 6 months at 2-3x a week. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:18 pm |
Bethany,could you tell me how long you used the Super GHK before you got the uglies,also what is crosshatching? And did you use Two Time Tightening when you had the uglies? |
|
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:30 pm |
Leggy 61 wrote: |
Bethany,could you tell me how long you used the Super GHK before you got the uglies,also what is crosshatching? And did you use Two Time Tightening when you had the uglies? |
I used the Neutrogena GHK version for a couple of months and then moved up to the Super GHK...I would say that I probably saw the uglies show up maybe 3 or 4 months after starting the GHK, but I was using it every day. And some of the stronger stuff I was using on pigmented areas may have migrated up.
Crosshatching is a bunch of criss-crossed lines...envison an bunch of lines in a row all leaning to the left. Then layer in another set of lines all learning to the right...they form a little diamond pattern. And when it's under your eyes, it is UGLY!
I did not use the TTT...they came out with it right about as I quit CPs, though I did buy some and give it to my mom! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:50 pm |
Thanks Bethany,I want to stay far away from the crosshatching.Did you use the Super GHF serum or the cream? The reason I ask is because Nanci said to use that the cream can be used everyday,and I have been for over 2 weeks,now I'm to get a little scared,I'm thinking I should back off and for sure order TTT right away. |
|
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:57 pm |
Leggy 61 wrote: |
Thanks Bethany,I want to stay far away from the crosshatching.Did you use the Super GHF serum or the cream? The reason I ask is because Nanci said to use that the cream can be used everyday,and I have been for over 2 weeks,now I'm to get a little scared,I'm thinking I should back off and for sure order TTT right away. |
I used the serum, but I also have very fair thinner skin...I swore off sun 20 years ago at 23, but I'm sure I also have some sun damage from growing up here in Florida and that may have factored in too.
If you are not using any stronger CPs elsewhere on your face, you are probably fine. And Nanci definitely knows her CPs, so feel good about her guidance. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:05 pm |
Oh I feel better since I'm using the cream and I do respect Nanci's opinion.Thank you so much!! |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:33 am |
Oh wow Bethany! Thank you so much for sharing! That is such great information to have. I would have never thought that it would have taken so long for the ulgies to appear and then to get rid of. I ordered the CP Serum from Skin Biology. Do you think if I dilute that and use it around my eyes just 2-3 times a week, I should be okay? It is my eye area that I need the most help with. Droopy crepey upper lids and fine lines and crows feet. I know you can't say for sure! I am fair skinned as well and spent too much time in the sun when I was younger |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:01 am |
Hi Sister Sweets! I read the entire Skin Biology CP thread and that is where I learned about the "uglies" associated with CP's. I thought somewhere in there someone had mentioned that a thread on the "uglies" would be a good idea. But honestly, I have read so many posts and threads over the last couple of weeks that I'm not positive it was from that thread I was thinking it would be a nice topic on it's own, because I am assuming it isn't just from CP's that people are going through this stage.
I gave up on facial exercises because I thought I was looking worse as far as wrinkling. I may have stayed with it a little longer if I had had any idea at all, how long that stage would have lasted. I know it's different for everyone, but just hearing others experiences helps so much to give an idea of what we might expect.
I personally, am concerned with the "uglies" associated with CP's at this time, since that is what I will using as soon as they come in! I am addicted to this forum and there are so many things I want to try, there aren't enough hours in the day (nor is there enough money in the bank :^))! I have read many of your posts and you are a great contributor to the boards and I really appreciate all the advice you and others give. Thank you so much! |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:23 am |
Yes, what exactly are The Uglies?
To help out a little, I would like to dispel some of the myths associated with CPs. CPs do NOT cause new damage to the skin.
It is recommended to go slow starting with the mildest products *lightly* to acclimate the skin. That is the hardest part for many of us since we want our results now. I am guilty of that too. Going too fast or too strong can cause some initial looseness to the elastics in the skin before it begins to tighten. The looseness is temporary and backing off for a few days allows the skin to rebound. This is originally where the term *uglies* came from. Usually this occurs when moving up in CP strength.
The other kind of *uglies* that you can experience is from hidden layers of damage slowly pushing up. Everyone will be different depending on your age and the amount of your own personal damage. This can be in the form of *buried scars* or *fine lines and wrinkles* like under the eyes or deep expression lines.
CPs are strong remodeling agents and do NOT cause damage to the skin. The damage already exists and that is why it is recommended to *go slow* in order to acclimate your skin to CPs. Every skin type is different as well, so if you have thin skin to begin with, you want to be particularly cautious not to move too fast. The mildest CPs & GHK will thicken your skin so that you can move up to the next level. It may take a while though because thin skin is damaged skin.
I used GHK around my eye for over a year before moving up to CP Serum. There is no need to rush the eyes that is for sure. For those who just aren't sure, it is a good idea to 1st apply a thin layer of Emu Oil or Squalane then your GHK or CPs on top. Then slowly reverse the method.
CPs are not like other skincare products that temporarily plump the skin to look good just for the day. Not only is that effect temporary, it is damaging. CPs are *remodeling agents* and can reverse skin damage so your skin can be youthful, beautiful and natural looking.
So these are some of things you need to understand before getting started.
Hope that helps! |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:17 am |
I have been using the Super CP serum once and sometimes twice a day, also rolling it in maybe once a week, for the last three months. I had read the threads here and also on the skinbio forum, so was expecting to see globs of damaged skin come to the surface. For the first month or so I was also spot-treating with the sample of Super Cop 2x (sometimes putting it on my whole face) but now that is gone. I'm thinking about getting a full-sized Super Cop 2x since I apparently need high potency!
Anyway, I have steeled myself for the uglies, but so far nothing. Not sure this means the CPs aren't working for me or that I need to be patient (no!) or that I'm just not going to get them. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:44 am |
gumdropday wrote: |
Oh wow Bethany! Thank you so much for sharing! That is such great information to have. I would have never thought that it would have taken so long for the ulgies to appear and then to get rid of. I ordered the CP Serum from Skin Biology. Do you think if I dilute that and use it around my eyes just 2-3 times a week, I should be okay? It is my eye area that I need the most help with. Droopy crepey upper lids and fine lines and crows feet. I know you can't say for sure! I am fair skinned as well and spent too much time in the sun when I was younger |
Gumdrop, I would dilute it heavily and stick to the 2-3 days a week, once per day. But that's just my perspective...hopefully the CP experts will weigh in as well.
But now that I think about it, do we have anyone with fair, thinner, dry skin that has used CPs for a long time with no uglies? If so, please raise your virtual hand! |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:33 pm |
bethany wrote: |
Leggy 61 wrote: |
Bethany,could you tell me how long you used the Super GHK before you got the uglies,also what is crosshatching? And did you use Two Time Tightening when you had the uglies? |
I used the Neutrogena GHK version for a couple of months and then moved up to the Super GHK...I would say that I probably saw the uglies show up maybe 3 or 4 months after starting the GHK, but I was using it every day. And some of the stronger stuff I was using on pigmented areas may have migrated up.
Crosshatching is a bunch of criss-crossed lines...envison an bunch of lines in a row all leaning to the left. Then layer in another set of lines all learning to the right...they form a little diamond pattern. And when it's under your eyes, it is UGLY!
I did not use the TTT...they came out with it right about as I quit CPs, though I did buy some and give it to my mom! |
bethany - this is quite odd that your cross-hatching showed up so late. I would definintely think your skin would've been adjusted to the GHK by then. What was the CP you were using that you think migrated upwards? When did you start using that compared to the eyes? |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:39 pm |
I have experienced some uglies - and it was usually due to using too much product or trying to move up in strength too fast (my skin was not use to it yet).
I would back off of using that CP for a couple of days and just use some emu oil and the uglies would go away. I can now use the strongest CPs without any problems. It did take quite a long time to get use to the stronger one each time.
My uglies usually appeared as looser skin or more crepey looking skin. I could tell because most of the time I was spot treating with the stronger CP and the 'ugly' was in that one spot. I also experienced it on my eyes each time I moved up in strength and the uglies would always go away.
I should have known my skin wasn't going to be accoustomed to the stronger CP when I tried them because I could feel some tingleing or some itching. Intense itching would definitely show up the next day as an ugly.
I no longer experience any itching or tingling even with the strongest CP.
Oops - I take that back. I have spot treated some recent acne scars (that were still somewhat raw looking) and I could feel the CPs going into those scars. I did not mind that because I've had the CPs do a fantastic job of healing and filling up some depressed scars when I've used them like that (on raw looking skin). Newer scars respond the best to CPs. |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:32 pm |
Thank you Bethany! That is what I'll do, I will dilute it and use only 2-3 days a week. I think I will also get some emu or squalene oil while I'm at Whole Foods tomorrow.
I was also glad to hear about the itching being a sign that too much may be being used. I will watch for that as well!
Thank you all so much! |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:55 pm |
That's a good idea gumdropday,to dilute and use 2-3 days a week to start.
The uglies I experienced was in the form of loose skin which would go away when I backed off for couple of days.
I had started with the CP serum, diluted and topping with emu oil.
Unfortunately my eye area was looking worse with continued use even though I didn't use CP serum around my eyes. I quit using CP's for this reason for a time (if I had plowed on I might have got past this, I don't know.)
I did see enough improvement on the rest of my face though so I'm back to using CP's but going slow with it.
Started back with PSF's copper serum and have used this even around my eyes with no problem.
I will now try SB's Protect & Restore cream but continue to use the GHK serum around my eyes. Hoping to gradually work up to Skin Signals.
Like others have said, you need to respect the strong remodelling aspects of these products.
The tendency can be to forge ahead too fast because other than some itching there isn't much irritation with using them. |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:04 pm |
Hi Brierrose! Okay, looks like I am starting with the same product you were. Were you using it everyday? Maybe by using it only 2-3 times a week, I won't have the loose skin. As far as dilution is concerned, what do you think? 1/1 water/serum or 2/1? or even more?
Thanks so much for your advice! |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:34 pm |
Yes, I was using it everday except when I would have to back off for a couple of days when I had a bit of sagging from it. It was approx. every 7-10 days I had to do this. I wasn't using Exfol or Lacsal serum at the time, just manual exfoliation. I will now be using these hydroxy acids with the P&R cream every other night alternating with Retin-A which I want to continue with.
You might not have the loose skin by 2-3 day a week use.
You'll have to experiment with dilution. Just start out slow. I could never seem to get past 2 drops of serum to 6 drops water but everybodies different and remember I was using daily. Just remember if you experience some slackness to back off a bit and your skin will spring back so don't worry too much about it. HTH |
|
|
|
|
Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:06 pm |
foxe wrote: |
bethany wrote: |
Leggy 61 wrote: |
Bethany,could you tell me how long you used the Super GHK before you got the uglies,also what is crosshatching? And did you use Two Time Tightening when you had the uglies? |
I used the Neutrogena GHK version for a couple of months and then moved up to the Super GHK...I would say that I probably saw the uglies show up maybe 3 or 4 months after starting the GHK, but I was using it every day. And some of the stronger stuff I was using on pigmented areas may have migrated up.
Crosshatching is a bunch of criss-crossed lines...envison an bunch of lines in a row all leaning to the left. Then layer in another set of lines all learning to the right...they form a little diamond pattern. And when it's under your eyes, it is UGLY!
I did not use the TTT...they came out with it right about as I quit CPs, though I did buy some and give it to my mom! |
bethany - this is quite odd that your cross-hatching showed up so late. I would definintely think your skin would've been adjusted to the GHK by then. What was the CP you were using that you think migrated upwards? When did you start using that compared to the eyes? |
Foxe,
I was following the instructions in the book, and used diluted CP serum on my face. I did use dots on SC2x on specific spots along my jawline, but very few.
If doing so in the future, I would use CP Accelerator on my eyes on NON-eye nights BEFORE applying CPs elsewhere...The CPA would form a film to keep the face CPs from migrating up to the eye area (Nanci recently made that recommendation to me).
But like I said above, I think that my skin type also came heavily into play. |
_________________ No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:35 pm |
Hi everyone! I posted this question already on the CP thread, but I think it belongs better here. Can anyone advise . . . Foxe?
I have been using SB CP Serum for the last two nights; yes, only two nights, and my skin looks horrible today. Looks like it maybe sagging a bit, but I'm not sure. What I do know is that the texture is yuck! My pores are huge and very visible. More wrinkles too, but mostly the pores. I used it Friday and Saturday night; 4 drops of water with 4 drops of serum for my face and the same for my neck. Can this happen after only two days of use? Or am I just having a really really really bad skin day? |
_________________ Life isn't about weathering the storm . . . It's about learning how to dance in the rain. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:31 pm |
beann1210
Maybe you should skip a few days, then dilute your CPs more heavily. When I started I used 2 drops and quite a bit of water for my whole face. The important thing is to keep it up. Use the product diluted for several weeks, then slowly lessen the dilution. Take breaks if you see anything you don't like - a day or two worked for me. Continue to increase the dilution ratio in favour of the CPs over a period of months - I took a year to get up to full strength on my face, and have only just started to used the CPs on my eyes, but very diluted. I think that the thinner your skin is the more dilution you should use. I don't really know about spot treatment though. Best of luck. |
|
|
|
|
Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:43 pm |
beann - good advice has been given. I might add that you can dilute even further. Try:
week 1 - 1 drop CP to 7 drops water
Week 3 - 2 drops CP : 6 drops water
Week 5 - 3 drops CP : 5 drops water
Week 7 - 4 drops CP : 4 drops water
Week 9 - 5 drops CP : 3 drops water
Week 10- 6 drops CP : 2 drops water
Week 11- 7 drops CP : 1 drop water
Week 12- 8 drops CP
I used a routine similiar to this. You can adjust it depending on how your skin reacts. A couple of times I tried to move ahead a little faster and would see some 'uglies'. Be patient. This should help your skin get use to the CPs.
You may find you don't need to use 8 drops of CP either. Just use what it takes to cover your skin and go from there. You may find you don't need to move this slowly (increasing dosage every 2 wks), but try it for a while and see if it helps. |
_________________ early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
|
|
|
Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:33 am |
Alexes and Foxe ~ Thank you so much for your help! I really don't know where I would be without this website. First of all, I would have never thought that my bad skin is a result of the CP. I would have just thought it was more damage coming up from the laser. So, I probably would have gone even stronger with the CP and you can image what that would've given me. This whole ordeal (with the laser) is very frustrating, and besides causing me to be depressed it really makes me angry. Besides a few cystic acne breakouts once in a while, I really didn't have any skin issues at all before this. I believe the laser aged my skin at least 10 years, maybe more. Now I'm spending $100's trying to make it better, and it cost me $1300 to ruin it. So, thanks again girls. You really don't know how much this advise is helping me; not only with my skin but you also give me hope that it'll get better. In time. B |
_________________ Life isn't about weathering the storm . . . It's about learning how to dance in the rain. |
|
|
Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:41 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
|
|